(Topic ID: 131020)

Pinbot scores outlane and occasionally tilts with slightest tap

By pinheadpierre

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by terryb
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

I am looking for some help with my Pinbot. It has a problem which manifests as frequent triggering of at least one outlane and occasionally as a tilt during play or with a gentle to moderate tap on the lower half of the playfield.

I have noticed also that thumping the playfield is less effective at triggering the problem the more the field is tilted upwards towards fully vertical.

I have checked switch gaps, the diodes on the switches, looked at the wires for obvious shorts and even tiled the playfield up during play to jiggle all of the wires and tap stuff underneath with a wooden dowel trying to trigger it without success.

Does anyone out there have any thoughts/suggestions on how to go about tracing the cause of this issue?

#2 8 years ago

I'm sure you may have done this already but have you reseated all your connectors on your mpu that go to the PF?

#3 8 years ago

Actually no, but I will give it a try. Could you explain how that would create a sensitivity to playfield vibration? I am not making the connection. (Sorry for the unintentional and BAD pun.) Really though - I actually am curious and do not understand.

#4 8 years ago

Ok - checked to make sure all of the harness connections were seated well. Still doing having the same trouble.

Update - on the occasions that the problem manifests as a tilt, it seems to be a slam tilt since there is no warning and you lose the ball and your bonus immediately.

The outlanes and the slam tilt share a common wire (green with red bands that goes to 1J8 at the board). The outlane switches and slam tilt have different color coded white wires, all of which end up at 1J10.

#5 8 years ago

I had this problem on my Jackbot. There was a wire on the right side of the PF up by the mini PF that actually ran between the PF and cabinet. From raising that lower the PF it eventually shorted the whole row...I 'think' the wire pulled the diode on the switch over and shorted it on something. I can't remember if it was the left inlane our outlane....but it would slam tilt when the lane was trigger.

Go into the switch test and check it there...work backwards until you can trigger a switch in that row...and it doesn't short the entire row. You problem will probably be between the last switch that shorts the row...and the one switch that works properly

I would also have a strange issue where the green row of lights would intermittently not work on the matrix...this fixed that as well

#6 8 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Actually no, but I will give it a try. Could you explain how that would create a sensitivity to playfield vibration? I am not making the connection.

Well there isn't a set in stone explanation other than sometimes loose connections can make your mpu do very strange,unexplainable things.

#7 8 years ago

Have you checked your slam tilt on your coin door.I had the coin door wire get behind the slam tilt before and cause it to slam tilt when you barely bump it.

#8 8 years ago

Just to make sure stick a business card or something between the contacts on the two switches in question. Especially the slam tilts can get pretty sloppy and close even if gapped properly.

If that's good then I would suspect the grn-red wire is getting pinched somewhere. If you bring the playfield fully up does the problem still occur?

#9 8 years ago

If I bring the playfield fully up I have to hammer really hard with my fist to make it happen, and even then it dies not always happen. The lower the playfield, the easier it is to make happen. With the playfield all the way down, it happens with a super light tap (like if you were knocking that way on someone's door they would never hear it).

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

If you bring the playfield fully up does the problem still occur?

No. Or at least almost not at all. Putting it into switch edges shows that it is the left outlane that is getting triggered. Raising and lowering the playfield will trigger it until the field is tilted approximately 45 degrees or higher.

#11 8 years ago

Is the slam tilt on the bottom of the playfields switch possibly the issue?

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Just to make sure stick a business card or something between the contacts on the two switches in question. Especially the slam tilts can get pretty sloppy and close even if gapped properly.

Have you tried this? You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people chase their tails when the problem was the switch making contact. May not be your issue, but a quick test and then we can move on to other (much more complicated) issues.

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Have you tried this? You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen people chase their tails when the problem was the switch making contact. May not be your issue, but a quick test and then we can move on to other (much more complicated) issues.

Interesting results - taping over the contacts for the left outlane did not make a difference. I next unscrewed the left outlane switch to take a really close look at it and left it dangling with its contacts taped over. This totally eliminated the phantom outlane triggering. I played a few games like this, banged on the playfield a bit and thought it was solved but then.....Pinbot says, "Tilt - all data lost". Still phantom slam tilting. Taped over the slam tilt contacts both under the playfield and at the coin door. Played a few more games to test and though not as frequent as the outlane issue was, it still gives a random slam tilt every few balls.

#14 8 years ago

Another diagnostic question related to this: on a normally functioning pinbot in switch edges mode, does the ramp switch register only as down or both up and down? Mine registers ramp down but nothing when the ramp is raised.

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Another diagnostic question related to this: on a normally functioning pinbot in switch edges mode, does the ramp switch register only as down or both up and down? Mine registers ramp down but nothing when the ramp is raised.

It is only going to register the switch closed position.

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Mine registers ramp down but nothing when the ramp is raised.

According to the switch matrix diagram that is correct. There is no switch for the up position.

The left outlane may just have been a wire/lead getting shorted to ground or a wire pinched when it is installed. Reinstall and watch carefully for those issue and see if we can narrow the issue down to the slam tilt.

In switch edges test can you make the slam tilt trigger? If so do any other switches also trigger at the same time?

#17 8 years ago

I have never seen the slam tilt register in switch edges mode. Occasionally when banging hard on the playfield the ramp down will register. I attributed that to excessive vibration but it could be part of the same issue. The only reason that I am suspicious of the ramp switch is that it is the only thing I can think of that would be affected by a change in gravitational orientation. (Remember how the issue with the outlane would be worse flat with it raised up?)

I will try putting the outlane switch back on later tonight to see what happens.

#18 8 years ago

My T2 is having this exact same problem. I will be playing along and it will start adding a 2nd, 3rd and 4th player to my game as well as other issues. Looking at the switch matrix the start button and flipper button were in the same column (I think, or it could be same row). Upon further inspection I found that I was missing the capacitor on my left flipper switch. I am putting a new one on tomorrow and it should solve the problem. I believe if a regular switch is missing a diode it can cause the same behavior. Check all of the switches in the same row and column as your slam tilt and one of them may be missing a diode or capacitor depending on the type of switch.

#19 8 years ago

Did not get to the next step before having to leave town for the next few days. More this weekend....

#20 8 years ago

As with so many things in life, a little time away helps me to think things through more clearly. On my recent business trip I started thinking about how many issues with pinball machines boil down to seemingly minute changes, adjustments or barely perceptible defects. In particular, I staeyed thinking about this mysterious switch problem. Why did the outlane switch malfunction when it was attached but not when left dangling? The answer came when I also unscrewed the shooter lane switch (which was sometimes somehow causing a slam tilt). Turns out that I feel into an old trap. I read on Pinside once that when doing a playfield swap you should not bother keeping the various fasteners with their associated pieces because this assumes that whoever put each one in used the correct size. I had just finished a playfield swap on this machine but I had grouped all of the fasteners in with their parts. In unscrewing both the outlane switch and the shooter switch I noticed that one screw on each was a bit tighter than the other. When I came back from my trip I looked really closely at those screws. Sure enough, two were a tiny bit larger (probably #6 screws as commonly found at hardware stores which typically carry only even numbered screw sizes rather than the proper #5). I decided to put both switches back on each with an original#5 and a #4 since I did not have any extra fives laying around. Voila! All fixed! Seems that the slightly fatter #6 was fat enough to be intermittently shorting the switch.

Lesson learned. Thank you all for your generosity of time and knowledge helping me work this out by giving me ideas for various things to try. I really appreciate all of you who are miles down the road from me in terms of knowledge and experience.

#21 8 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Why did the outlane switch malfunction when it was attached but not when left dangling?

Nice troubleshooting, glad you got it working.

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