(Topic ID: 224305)

Pinbot - Help Please :)


By jag8511

7 months ago



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  • 180 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by jag8511
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There are 180 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 6 months ago

After cutting off ZR-5 and letting it run for 5-10 min -

1-6 = high
7 - low
8- high
9- low
10- high but blinking
11-14 = high

I did note that when I first turn on the machine, pin 9 had no reading and then eventually gave me a low reading once the pin was on for a bit.

#152 6 months ago
Quoted from jag8511:

I did note that when I first turn on the machine, pin 9 had no reading and then eventually gave me a low reading once the pin was on for a bit.

This is a second issue to work on after pin 10 is corrected.

Quoted from jag8511:

10- high but blinking

Well then cut the cap off and retest.

#153 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

This is a second issue to work on after pin 10 is corrected.

Well then cut the cap off and retest.

I assume you mean the C-72? Just want to double check before I cut something on the board.

#154 6 months ago

Yep.

#155 6 months ago

Cut off C72 and pin 10 on U49 is still blinking. I have another SIP for SR-20 that I will pull off and replace once I get more de solder braid in the mail. Or is there a better next step?

#156 6 months ago

You do have j-18 disconnected while testing?

#157 6 months ago

I do

#158 6 months ago

Lets recap, U-49 not installed. U-45 not installed. 1J18 not installed. Zr-5 and C-72 are removed. So the only component left connected is SR-20 which is just a resistor, the resistor supplies the 5 volts. I suppose if the resistor is heating up and then going open causing the blink, then cooling off and reconnecting and showing a high again. There is nothing left in the circuit to cause it. You just wouldn't think that a new part would act up right away. I have seen resistor packs short and open up but never seen one act like this before.

#159 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Lets recap, U-49 not installed. U-45 not installed. 1J18 not installed. Zr-5 and C-72 are removed. So the only component left connected is SR-20 which is just a resistor, the resistor supplies the 5 volts. I suppose if the resistor is heating up and then going open causing the blink, then cooling off and reconnecting and showing a high again. There is nothing left in the circuit to cause it. You just wouldn't think that a new part would act up right away. I have seen resistor packs short and open up but never seen one act like this before.

Along these lines, when you (the OP) say "Blinking", is it a regular frequency, or is it irregular? That could help point in the right direction.

#160 6 months ago

robertmee - help me understand what regular frequency vs. irregular is. When I use the probe connected to the 5 volts test points on the board I'm inserting the tip of the prob into the socket holes. They either give me a steady high or low reading along with a low tone or high tone. However, pin 10 is a high reading but is blinking with a beeping high tone. I can take a video if that helps at all. I wish I could provide better information, I'm just too new to know all the terms.

#161 6 months ago
Quoted from jag8511:

robertmee - help me understand what regular frequency vs. irregular is. When I use the probe connected to the 5 volts test points on the board I'm inserting the tip of the prob into the socket holes. They either give me a steady high or low reading along with a low tone or high tone. However, pin 10 is a high reading but is blinking with a beeping high tone. I can take a video if that helps at all. I wish I could provide better information, I'm just too new to know all the terms.

A video might be helpful....sometimes it just depends on the model logic probe as to what that means. If it were a heat cycle issue with an SR, I would expect a definitive High and then Low, for a period of at least a second or more. If it is a rapid blinking in the order of milliseconds and repeatable, then that would be from a clock signal somewhere, or possibly injected AC noise/voltage.

#162 6 months ago

Ok! I can do video. No problem! I'll get a video done tonight. Here is the link to the probe I purchased, if that helps at all.

amazon.com link »

#163 6 months ago
Quoted from jag8511:

Ok! I can do video. No problem! I'll get a video done tonight. Here is the link to the probe I purchased, if that helps at all.
amazon.com link »

Good choice...it's the same one I have. The beeping changes pitch for the frequency, FYI. So if it's a high pitched beep, then high frequency, lower pitched, low frequency. The indicators also give some rudimentary idea of the pulse wave. Here's the manual with a chart of indicators. Which one is yours exhibiting?

https://www.elenco.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/LP560-3.pdf

#164 6 months ago

Interestingly enough. On U49 when I first power the machine on I get no reading on pin 9 and a normal high reading on pin 10. As the game warms up, I get a low reading on pin 9 and the high blinking on pin 10.

I've attached the video of the high blinking.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uu6dbs6l1n2xmn2/IMG_3694.MOV?dl=0

#165 5 months ago
Quoted from jag8511:

Interestingly enough. On U49 when I first power the machine on I get no reading on pin 9 and a normal high reading on pin 10. As the game warms up, I get a low reading on pin 9 and the high blinking on pin 10.

This is very strange for sure, do you think these are tied together in any way. There shouldn't be any connection with the chip removed.

#166 5 months ago

I will try to replace SR-20 again tonight and take pictures of the board if that doesn't help. Maybe there is something I'm missing because I just don't know enough. Is it possible that if there was a wrong size component installed at one point that it might cause this?

#167 5 months ago

I looked at the Pinbot schematic....The one on IPDB sucks monkey balls, but found a nice high rez one here: https://archive.org/details/PinBotInstructionManualSchematics600dpi/page/n63

Have to concur with the path Grumpy has taken you down. Pin 10 should not be going low.

Out of curiosity, take your logic probe when pin 10 on 49 starts blinking and check:

Both sides of SR20 (pin 1 for the 5V source and pin 7 for the resistor for this circuit...a dot will indicate pin 1)
Pin 1 should be constant high
Pin 7 should be constant high but may be pulsing

Both holes where you clipped C72
One side low
One side probably pulsing if pin 10 is pulsing...but should be high

Both holes where you clipped ZR5
One side low
One side probably pulsing if pin 10 is pulsing...but should be high

J18-pin 4
Probably pulsing

Each of those could be the source of pulsing as it back traces to pin 10 of 49. If one of the "Probably Pulsings" isn't that might help.

The other test is to remove SR20 completely. Pin 10 should definitely be low then, as that removes the 5V source. If it's still pulsing, then you have a short somewhere on the board or under an IC due to corrosion.

#168 5 months ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Out of curiosity, take your logic probe when pin 10 on 49 starts blinking and check:

Both sides of SR20 (pin 1 for the 5V source and pin 7 for the resistor for this circuit...a dot will indicate pin 1)
Pin 1 should be constant high
Pin 7 should be constant high but may be pulsing

The 5 volts for SR -20 can't be the source of the pulsing as it would have showed itself on the other switch inputs, but I am with you on your assessment of this problem. Maybe time for a good pic of the front and back of the board so a bunch of eyes can look it over and see something he has over looked.

#169 5 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The 5 volts for SR -20 can't be the source of the pulsing as it would have showed itself on the other switch inputs, but I am with you on your assessment of this problem. Maybe time for a good pic of the front and back of the board so a bunch of eyes can look it over and see something he has over looked.

I didn't say the 5V would be the source....pin 1 should be high. What I wanted to see if pin 7 was flashing. If we find that one of the 4 point's isn't flashing, then it could indicate a bad trace somewhere. There's only two logical conclusions....SR20-7 is opening/closing a rapid rate (VERY doubtful) which would result in loss of voltage....or the board is compromised somewhere with a shorted trace. Removing SR20 completely, will determine which it is.

#170 5 months ago
Quoted from robertmee:

SR20-7 is opening/closing a rapid rate (VERY doubtful)

Yea after I watched the video I too doubt that the resistor is going open and closed (way to fast). I'm betting something under one of the 2 sockets.

#171 5 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Yea after I watched the video I too doubt that the resistor is going open and closed (way to fast). I'm betting something under one of the 2 sockets.

Well, it's not socket 49 as no other pin was pulsing. Might be worth it to check every pin on 45, see if any others are pulsing.

#172 5 months ago

Sorry for the delay all. Busy weekend and internet was out at the house. Gotta love Cox. Here are the readings from pin 45. I also attached some pictures of the board.

1- none
2- high
3- low
4- none
5- high
6- low
7- low
8- low
9- high blinking (same as pin 10 on U49)
10- none
11- low
12- low
13- none
14- high

IMG_3711 (resized).jpgIMG_3712 (resized).jpg
#173 5 months ago

Did you do any that I posted earlier?

Out of curiosity, take your logic probe when pin 10 on 49 starts blinking and check:

Both sides of SR20 (pin 1 for the 5V source and pin 7 for the resistor for this circuit...a dot will indicate pin 1)
Pin 1 should be constant high
Pin 7 should be constant high but may be pulsing

Both holes where you clipped C72
One side low
One side probably pulsing if pin 10 is pulsing...but should be high

Both holes where you clipped ZR5
One side low
One side probably pulsing if pin 10 is pulsing...but should be high

J18-pin 4
Probably pulsing

Each of those could be the source of pulsing as it back traces to pin 10 of 49. If one of the "Probably Pulsings" isn't that might help.

The other test is to remove SR20 completely. Pin 10 should definitely be low then, as that removes the 5V source. If it's still pulsing, then you have a short somewhere on the board or under an IC due to corrosion.

#174 5 months ago

I would like to thank robertmee and grumpy for all the advice so far. I’ve learned more than I could have imagined and greatly appreciate the time spent trying to help me with this issue. Last weekend I picked up 3 Williams machines (2 comets and a high speed) but their condition wasn’t as I thought they would be. Long story short, I was able to sell them all to someone who repairs pins. And has been repairing them for years. As part of the deal, he agreed to take my pinbot board and repair it. He has a testing unit and said he just finished up a pinbot so I figured it is worth a shot. Seems like a nice guy and he said he will tell me everything he did to fix it so that I can post it on here. Hopefully that will give us all a little piece of mind. Again, can’t thank you enough and if he can’t fix it then I’ll let everybody know that as well.

#175 5 months ago

Sounds like a good plan. I'm going to guess that somewhere a trace is compromised, either through repeated solder cycles or corrosion. It's the only explanation that makes sense. Good Luck and let us know the resolution.

#176 5 months ago

Update: I was able to drop off my board this weekend. The guy messaged back and said that U56 was bad and had a dead short between pins 6&7. He said that caused shorts at U45 and U50 but they are now gone since he removed U56. He is going to order some parts, including the ones I cut off the board. He will then re-test and let me know the results.

#177 5 months ago
Quoted from jag8511:

Update: I was able to drop off my board this weekend. The guy messaged back and said that U56 was bad and had a dead short between pins 6&7. He said that caused shorts at U45 and U50 but they are now gone since he removed U56. He is going to order some parts, including the ones I cut off the board. He will then re-test and let me know the results.

that's odd....U56 is just a 7404 hex inverter used on lamps. Looking at the schematics, I don't see where the 5-6 pair of U56 is even used. Pin 7 would be the gnd for the pin, so he's saying that the output of an unused inverter that was grounded was the problem?

#178 5 months ago

Not 100% sure. That was just in a text message that I got. He said he needed a 7406 IC. I'll know more once he gets parts in that he ordered for it. I have seen and played machines he restored as well as seen his board work and they are in amazing shape, so I'm confident he will get it figured out. Just wanted to update as I get updated for people following along.

#179 5 months ago
Quoted from robertmee:

I don't see where the 5-6 pair of U56 is even used.

It is used for the enable signal to turn on the flippers and special solenoids, but I don't see how there can be a connection to your issue of the pulsing signal. But again this is a strange issue that your experiencing on your board.

#180 5 months ago

grumpy - I agree. It is strange. I explained what was going on and he thought that was a very strange issue as well. We'll see what happens when he gets the parts in the mail and is able to re-test.

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There are 180 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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