(Topic ID: 19191)

Pinbot. First Machine. First Problem.

By OrochiLeona

11 years ago


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#1 11 years ago

Hi Y'all,
Huzzah! I've finally gotten my first machine and it's Pinbot, which is one of my all time faves.

Now, the playfield is a bit dirty but its really kept its colour, the cabinet is also gorgeous. A once over with the usual cleaners and it will look fantastic. Also had a flipper rebuild and a fresh set of legs.

Got it from a known dealer for a great price so he can be trusted, but having some problems with boot-up.
As in. It's not.

I'm getting GI lights and a constant buzz, fairly loud, can be altered with volume control. But machine never goes into atrract mode or lights any displays or lamps.

I had to reconnect backbox as machine came in two parts. All leads were labelled though and ive double checked them all for correct sockets and seating.

It's early days so I'm gonna spend the evening looking into this, but can I get any ideas, help or pointers all y'all?

Welcome to pinball collecting. Trial by fire, right?
Thanks in advance

#2 11 years ago

A few things to check after moving any game...

- Make sure all of your ROMs are seated properly.
- Make sure all fuses in the game are still in place, test them, and replace any blown fuses.
- Check all the connectors on the board side, not just on the harness side. A lot of time the connectors to the board wiggle loose. I'd recommend unplugging and re-seating all of your connectors on both ends of the harness.
- Make sure that the tilt/slam tilt mechanism is fine.
- Try to enter the menus when it's powered up. Just enter the service menu and exit back out if you can.

You'd be surprised at how just how many times just those few things matter. It's pretty common for a game to have a few issues after a move. My Twilight Zone (second pin) had a handful of loose connections after moving it to my basement, and I was worried that it was something serious. After 10 minutes of unplugging and plugging back in connectors, I was all set.

#3 11 years ago

My guess is that you've missed a connector along the way. I'm sure you've probably done this already, but pop up the playfield and look under if way in the back for any connectors you missed. Also make sure the ground strap is screwed down under the wingnut of the backbox floor.

Go thru the connectors again, especially the ribbon cables. Make sure the red line on the cable is meeting with pin 1 of that connector. AND make sure the connector is lined up properly and not missing any pins.

Are the computer boards screwed down well? Loose boards in the backbox will cause funny issues.

Also, a question: was the machine working when you picked it up (and did you see it work)? Or are you just taking the seller's word it works?

#4 11 years ago

Try cycling thru the adjustment menus from inside the coin door as Jar said above.

#5 11 years ago

I have had 7 different pins at this point and 4 out of the 7 have had issues when I brought them home and fired them up.

They sell a pen made like a paint brush that has fiberglass bristles and it's called a scratch brush on Amazon. If you don't have one go get one, they are less than 10.00 bucks and as jar said clean and reseat ALL connections I'm sure that's all it is. If it worked when you looked at it and you didn't drop it while moving you have some dirty connections or something's hooked up wrong.
Let us know.

#6 11 years ago

Such fast responses, thanks.
I'll look into all those this evening and let you know.
I did reattach the ground strap under the wingnut.
I can;t get any action from the coin door buttons, the score displays aren't even lit.

In terms of life all I have are GI and the aforementioned "buzz/hum"

I personally didn't see it working but a good friend who picked it up for me did. The seller is an operator who has shifted a lot of games to my circle of Pinball players.

#7 11 years ago

Did your friend also disconnect it for you, or was that the seller?

Something isn't connected correctly.

Most connectors wont let you connect into other connectors as most are keyed. So it's kinda hard to make an improper connection.

My thought is that you have shifted a connector on a board down and you're not seeing it. Carefully examine where the connectors are plugged into on the boards. Are there any header pins not connected up?

Have you checked all fuses?

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Most connectors wont let you connect into other connectors as most are keyed. So it's kinda hard to make an improper connection.

True,But sometimes those keyed little blocks fall out and will fit onto another connector.

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

True,But sometimes those keyed little blocks fall out and will fit onto another connector.

Yep.

I think he's got something shifted.. or something wasn't connected correctly on the power board.

#10 11 years ago

If you can't tell if you've connected something wrong, what you can do is download the schematics. They will tell you what colored wires should be in each connector etc.

This link has a picture of the backbox connectors. It might help: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1796&picno=21852

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

If you can't tell if you've connected something wrong, what you can do is download the schematics. They will tell you what colored wires should be in each connector etc.
This link has a picture of the backbox connectors. It might help: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=1796&picno=21852

Yes Sir,The schematics are a huge help...Man,That's one thing I hate about taking the backbox head off of a game it can be a real pain.

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Yes Sir,The schematics are a huge help...Man,That's one thing I hate about taking the backbox head off of a game it can be a real pain.

Indeed. Anything newer than a system 3-7 can be a pain in the ass! That's why they made them foldable.

I had to pop off a taxi head once. Ugh. I took a bunch of pictures so it was fine.. but I still connected the display ribbon cable wrong.

I hope this guy gets his pinbot going. Such an amazing game and first pin.

#13 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Indeed. Anything newer than a system 3-7 can be a pain in the ass! That's why they made them foldable.
I had to pop off a taxi head once. Ugh. I took a bunch of pictures so it was fine.. but I still connected the display ribbon cable wrong.
I hope this guy gets his pinbot going. Such an amazing game and first pin.

Hopefully he will get it going,We will wait till he post's back his results.

Pain in the ass it is...I don't think I will ever do that again,Wasn't fun!!

#14 11 years ago

Hah! With all you guys helping, he'll have it up and running tonight!

Lost_in_space.gifLost_in_space.gif

#15 11 years ago

.....PARTIAL LINK-UP!!....

#16 11 years ago

NOW I SEE YOU!!!!!!

The music that follows that is awesome.

#17 11 years ago

!

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#18 11 years ago

Firstly, thanks everyone for leaping to my aid so quickly, I expected to here something at somepoint, but never so many replies in just a few hours

Pinbot..Circuits..Activated

Quoted from Blackbeard:

My thought is that you have shifted a connector on a board down and you're not seeing it. Carefully examine where the connectors are plugged into on the boards. Are there any header pins not connected up?

A Winner Is You. ONE connector (1J4) had shifted off of ONE pin I had decided to disconnect everything and start again, when I got to this I facepalmed, stuck everything back in, powered on and he sprang to life.
It was a *glorious* moment

Running through sound and lamp tests, pushed the ball around by hand, checked visor, drop targets, slingshots, bumpers, bonus kickout, they all seem fine.
Solar ramp a little stiff, some backbox GI needs replacing, but all coils are kicking, all PF lamps are working save for an Orange flasher at the back, Does Pinbot have lights in the Pop Bumpers? I think they might be out.
Left outlane rollover switch *may* not be working. Overuse surely? Pinbots left outlane is the bane of my life.
Topper siren also works great.

Only real problems are cosmetic, machine needs a DAMN good clean, I also have to think on some serious mylar air bubble issues, nothing that affects the ball, but unsightly looking.

I got this for an *awesome* price and am sooooo looking forward to sprucing it up, me and the missus are going to start that at the weekend.

Thanks again all y'all, for your invaluable contributions.
I'll add some photos in a bit, be pre-warned, it's real grubby.

#19 11 years ago
Quoted from OrochiLeona:

Does Pinbot have lights in the Pop Bumpers? I think they might be out.

Yes, a 44 or 47 in each.

Quoted from OrochiLeona:

Left outlane rollover switch *may* not be working. Overuse surely? Pinbots left outlane is the bane of my life.

I had the same problem but with both the left outlane and left inlane switches not working. The contacts were dirty and the switches needed adjusting, and that did the trick.

Congrats on getting it up and running!

#20 11 years ago

Nice goin'!!

#21 11 years ago

Sweet! Glad you got her goin'!

Those pop bumpers light a lot when the energy value is increased.. so chances are they are out. I thought they were 555s for replacing, not 47s. You'll know which when you remove the bagatelle and check them. Coulda sworn they are 555s though.

As for the flashers: double check under the playfield each of the flasher boards. These are the little green circuit boards with 4 sand resistors attached to each. It was common on these older system 11s to have the resistors heat up and become dislodged from the circuit board... and some even falling off completely. If this happens, your flashers won't work. Check the base of the cab for sand resistors lying around.

If you need to replace them, it's quite simple and just a matter of soldering new ones in. Let me know if you have any questions as I just did all my flashers on my pinbot.

Obviously check the bulb for being burnt out too.

#22 11 years ago

WooooooooooooHooooooooooooooooooooooo.................
I love it when a plan comes together.

#23 11 years ago

Used links to save space/server.

Cabinet, Still nice and bright, scuff mark along bottom:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/sanshiro316/DSCF6973.jpg

My first machine, huzzah. Note dirty as hell and lost decals along bonus lane:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/sanshiro316/DSCF7005.jpg

The bride has seen better days
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/sanshiro316/DSCF6994.jpg

Mylar bubbling, same on all planet lamps:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/sanshiro316/DSCF6980.jpg

Jeeez:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/sanshiro316/DSCF6988.jpg

I know these pictures look rough, but a LOT of this is just surface dust, I wanted to take photos at its worst so I could have a nice comparison when Ive got it fully cleaned up. New rubbers already en route.
Machines clearly had a long life, especially considering how worn the bonus lane is, but seems to be operating fine. Will get this back to its old self fo' sho'

#24 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Sweet! Glad you got her goin'!
Those pop bumpers light a lot when the energy value is increased.. so chances are they are out. I thought they were 555s for replacing, not 47s. You'll know which when you remove the bagatelle and check them. Coulda sworn they are 555s though.
As for the flashers: double check under the playfield each of the flasher boards. These are the little green circuit boards with 4 sand resistors attached to each. It was common on these older system 11s to have the resistors heat up and become dislodged from the circuit board... and some even falling off completely. If this happens, your flashers won't work. Check the base of the cab for sand resistors lying around.
If you need to replace them, it's quite simple and just a matter of soldering new ones in. Let me know if you have any questions as I just did all my flashers on my pinbot.
Obviously check the bulb for being burnt out too.

Blackbeard is the man!! way to go!!

#25 11 years ago

Nothing a little elbow grease won't take care of. Looks in pretty good shape. Don't see pinbots helmet that goes over the ramp.

#26 11 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Blackbeard is the man!! way to go!!

Thanks Mike.

I've gotten so much help on this site that I feel that if I can help out another, I should.

#27 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Thanks Mike.
I've gotten so much help on this site that I feel that if I can help out another, I should.

Helping one another is the main goal of this site and enjoying the hobby.

#28 11 years ago

It looks to me like it should clean up real good! Enjoy it!

#29 11 years ago

Actually, your pinbot doesn't look too bad. No wear around the light grid is bonus. And it looks like your spiral ramp's clear guard isn't cracked.

New rubbers, a total playfield breakdown and clean, and rebuilt flippers (and bushings) will probably make that thing sparkle.

Breaking pinbot down was somewhat easy too.. fyi. Just take pics and make some simple diagrams for the reinstall.

#30 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

I thought they were 555s for replacing, not 47s. You'll know which when you remove the bagatelle and check them. Coulda sworn they are 555s though.

I'll have to check mine too - the pop bumpers have 44s that were in there when I got the machine, so I assumed that was the right bulb. The 44s are working but IIRC the pop bumpers don't have bayonet sockets, so you're probably right it's supposed to have 555s!

#31 11 years ago
Quoted from vulture:

I'll have to check mine too - the pop bumpers have 44s that were in there when I got the machine, so I assumed that was the right bulb. The 44s are working but IIRC the pop bumpers don't have bayonet sockets, so you're probably right it's supposed to have 555s!

I remember thinking it was strange cause all other pins I have use 44/47s.

#32 11 years ago

Thanks all y'all for all your help.

Whilst I'm here, Machine has a general constant "hum" to it, Like a loud PC. Is this normal? Whenever I've played games in the past theyve been at shows, arcades or in peoples houses with five or so all going, so I've never been aware of whether these games "hum"

Onto the boooooring overdone subject of mylar removal. Or not.
The playfield has a HUGE chunk, from the visor base to between the flippers, plus two seperate small pieces in front of each slingshot.

There is a crinkly air bubble on pretty much each insert. the colour grid, the planets and the shoot again light (see previous photos)
I know the risks of removing mylar on 80s machines, soooo what do you guys suggest? I'd like to remove the bubbles, and the mylar edges are quite black and noticeable.

BUT, I am also concerned with damaging the PF. So, anyone got experience with mylar removal on old games, or anyone want to suggest a way to just deal with the air bubbles or whatever.

Cheers

**EDIT** You know what? looking at it, it's huge, I think removing it is a disaster waiting to happen, but if someone could help me with the air bubbles, if there *is* a way?

#33 11 years ago
Quoted from OrochiLeona:

You know what? looking at it, it's huge, I think removing it is a disaster waiting to happen, but if someone could help me with the air bubbles, if there *is* a way?

I'm pretty new to this myself, but couldn't one just pop the air bubbles with a pin and then smooth out the mylar with a credit card? I don't know how you would then keep the air popped mylar on the PF though...

Congrats on your first pin though!

#34 11 years ago

Honestly, I'd probably leave the mylar.

On my pinbot I removed mylar strips from below the drop targets and in front of each slingshot. The freeze method worked like a charm, but getting the glue off that was left behind was a complete pain in the ass. I'm not exagerating either. It took forever scrubbing it with a ME and goo gone. And these were 3'' x 3'' strips. You're talking a HUGE mylar piece.

I didn't have any art lifting or anything though..

If you really want to do it, strip the playfield first. The goo gone gets everywhere.

As for the hum, mine has a little hum too. Make sure your boards are screwed in tight. I think a little hum is common here.

#35 11 years ago

Mylar is gone from mine. Was off when I got it, so not sure how hard it was to get off.
I was given a new piece to install if I wanted. Have not put it on, since my use just doesn't add up to much (compared to commercial use).
If the original mylar was still there, I think I would leave it unless it was really badly deteriorated and peeling.

#36 11 years ago

RCA1: DON'T put that mylar on!!!

It's easy to remove the mylar via freezing.. and actually kind of fun. It's the sticky residue left behind which is a complete pain in the a$$ to remove.

#37 11 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

RCA1: DON'T put that mylar on!!!

Thanks. Yeah, that's what I thought. It was nice of the previous owner to include it, but not interested.

1 month later
#38 11 years ago

Hey, here's a before/after WIP so far, still a long way to go though.
I took the loss on some already damaged decals, will replace down the line.

ANYWHOO, just a quick question if anyone here had a rubber map for Pin*Bot, I reckon I could wing it and work out where everything should go but just in case anyone had a scan or link to hand, had a wander online, could find a list but no map.

wip.jpgwip.jpg

#39 11 years ago

Nice!! Much better!

#40 11 years ago

Looks like it's cleaned up very nicely, good work!

#41 11 years ago

Nice progress.

6 months later
#42 11 years ago

THREAD NECROMANCY!

Hi guys,
So after a lot of elbow grease, a few new bits and a house move, Pinbot is up and running in the corner of the room.

Despite his age, everything's running really well, but there's an issue, and its the classic Stuck Flipper.
Left flipper sticks up 90% of the time, drops when right flipper button pressed or ball drains.

I turned off power whilst it was up and it stayed up. So I'm thinking mechanical.
Flipper is not in contact with play field.

As this is my first proper fix I thought I'd turn to my ever faithful Pinside crowd for any pointers on where to start, or tests i could try to confirm issue, or just any advice in general.

Thanks in advance all y'all

#43 11 years ago

check and if bad replace coil sleeves, and check for mushrooming on the rods, check EOS switch as well since you'll be under there.

#44 11 years ago

New bushings fixed this for me.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270

Since it goes down when you hit the other flipper, it's a mechanical stick. your EOS switches are probably OK.

#45 11 years ago
Quoted from OrochiLeona:

**EDIT** You know what? looking at it, it's huge, I think removing it is a disaster waiting to happen, but if someone could help me with the air bubbles, if there *is* a way?

syringe filled with clear coat will do it.

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