Pinbot
Williams, 1986You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider tomass.
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I have a chance to join the club. I love system 11's and now I have a Pinbot lined up. Price is very reasonable (significantly less than 500) and it's a 6 hr round trip. Going to buy sight unseen with very few pics. Lady seems very trustworthy and it worked until a move. Assuming battery damage to the board but hoping not. This is the best I have to go on. Am I crazy?
image3 (resized).jpegQuoted from gutz:You are crazy for posting the details BEFORE you made the pick up.
I am a little crazy, but there are no for sale ads on this one. This person contacted me and wants it to go to a good home to be restored.
Quoted from Freeplay40:Pinbot/Jack Bot ramp update. I had quite a setback with the first batch of blue/red ramps with a couple spots that did not accept the dye. It has taken me a week just to resolve the problem and am now finishing up the dye process on the first dozen of these made. Typically when I discover flaws I discard all the bad ones. With the amount of work that goes into these I plan on offering the "seconds" at a discounted price. I will post photos of the flaws. There are a couple spots right at the entrance where the blue did not take, but are partially hidden from view and another spot on the outer wall of the red towards the exit. The red flaw is parallel with line of sight when playing the game so not terribly noticeable. So much work went into making these, just seems a shame to toss them.
Yes, a shame to waste. I'm sure plenty of us will be happy with them, especially at a discounted rate.
Quoted from Billc479:Do the drive - you will be glad you did.
I am making the trip on Saturday to pick it up. Money is already in her hand and I have a receipt. Just 6 hrs each way and I am in the club. Gonna combine with a Caribou hunt so now it is more like 6 hours out of my way.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Good luck with the pickup. It is a great machine and I think the high score music is the best of any pinball machine.
Thanks. Price is cheap but could have a multitude of issues. At least the little bit of playfield that is visible looks good and not beat up. Hoping for the best but expecting issues and a lot of work. I will post a couple pics once I have it.
Well I made the 12 hr journey to pick up my $300 Pinbot project and join the club. The good:
Playfield looks great with mylar that looks to be factory.
Backglass looks excellent
Appears complete and I have not spotted any broken or missing plastics.
Original topper (not in pic to fit in my jeep).
The Bad:
Battery damage to the board as suspected.
No coin door as an op removed when it was purchased about 30 yrs ago.
Cracked piece on the spiral ramp.
20180901_192728 (resized).jpg20180901_193146 (resized).jpg20180901_193416 (resized).jpg20180901_193425 (resized).jpg20180901_193430 (resized).jpg20180901_193441 (resized).jpg20180901_193745 (resized).jpg20180901_194326 (resized).jpg20180901_194527 (resized).jpgQuoted from jibmums:300 bucks is a nice score. It's a shame the op didn't leave the coindoor and remove the batteries.
Haha! Yeah for real. I will need to replace that door. It had plexi but I ripped it off and handed it to her. Wondering if that board is worth saving or not. Gonna try I imagine.
Quoted from Billc479:Nice looking machine. I think it was well worth the long trip. All parts, with maybe the exception of the red ramp, are obtainable. (If you find a source for a red ramp with the decals, let me know. Mine is broken at the same spot.)
I see a repro on ebay for 99 right now. I am tapped with all my cash going to a moose hunt coming up. Only 1 available.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Totally worth saving that board. I've fixed worse. I would use the small side cutters to just clip all the leads on the two PIS chips then carefully warm each pin to pull out and then use the desoldering station to clean out the holes. Neutralize the alkali damage then some work with to clean off the old solder, etc. Repair any traces and put in a couple sockets for the PIA's.
You did well on that machine. Some touch ups and coin door should fix the cabinet. That playfield will clean up, and you'll have fun with it. My Pinbot was my first machine and I've had it for about 19 years. No plans on parting with it.
I am gonna do a resto on this, along with my Comet and my Cyclone this winter (ak has very long winters). Will it hurt if I let it sit for a few months? Can it get worse with batteries removed? If so I will do the board work now and then leave it till I start.
Quoted from Freeplay40:Personally I would remove the batteries and the battery holders and scrub the board down with a vinegar/water (50/50) solution to minimize any further damage. I usually finish up with an alcohol rinse then blow dry with compressed air.
Thanks. The holder is already cut off. I will pull the board and clean it up like you suggest. Maybe pull the corroded components while I am at it.
Quoted from MustangPaul:Wouldn't the guy repairing it want it uncleaned to better see what needs repairing?
It's ok, I am doing the repairs.
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Problem is you can't easily clean under the IC and see what damage is there. The PIA chips aren't that expensive and if you want to ensure you deal with all the battery damage it is easier to cut off those chips, clean, put in sockets and new chips. I'd rather sacrifice an easy to source chip than damage the board. If you couldn't get the chips I'd understand but I'd rather ensure I get it done the first time. I've found lots of crud under chips I've taken off before.
Would you pull more than this off? Freeplay40 was giving advice on how to hold it off a few months and about the white residue on the back.
20180902_160426 (resized).jpgQuoted from Freeplay40:I'd go a little further and heat and remove all the chip legs and suck out the solder....OK...really I'd probably keep going and get the new sockets in!
Ok. I will clean it up tomorrow and see what it looks like with the solder removed.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You will find that 1J-8 header pins will be corroded under the white plastic.
Gotcha! I will pull that too and see what it looks like. Thanks for all the advice everyone!
Quoted from Marvin:its a translight, not a backglass, it should be in excellent condition. Nice score.
Yes, I posted before I actaully looked hard at it. Realised but figured, oh well.
Need some wiring help. Putting my pinbot back together and I clipped the knocker wires off to transport. Now I need to solder back and I did not take a pic. Manual says it is a brown black wire in the coil chart. So does this mean the brown black is the ground? And the diode band goes away from this wire? The 2 wires are orange and brown black. Thanks
Quoted from GRUMPY:Orange is power wire, install next to the band of the diode. Brown/black is the ground wire, install away from the band.
Thanks!
Quoted from GRUMPY:Orange is power wire, install next to the band of the diode. Brown/black is the ground wire, install away from the band.
GRUMPY
This board has been significantly damaged and put back together. Are there any connectors I should leave off on the first powerup, and pins I should test before risking damage?
Thanks in advance.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You can leave the brown/black wire off then start a game. Then touch the wire to the coil lug, if it doesn't fire shut off the game and solder on the wire. Then test knocker in coil test.
I was thinking more along the lines of mpu connectors. Not sure if I should test anything before fully hooking up and turning on the mpu. Still waiting on 1 ic to come in the mail. I guess I will just be ready to turn it off quickly if anything seems to lock up.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You can disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19. Turn on power and carefully connect each connector one at a time while listening for a coil locking on. Then disconnect 1J-19 again and start a game and reconnect it again while listening for a special solenoid locking.
Sounds like a plan. Thanks. Been almost a month waiting on a chip from China.
I am getting a U38 pia failure after repairing battery damage. This was not an ic that looked damaged but I swapped it due to the error. It is still giving u38 pia failure. Everything seems to meter out. Is there something that will throw this pia out of spec or something else I can test to trace the problem down? Thanks
So it seems that more than just a locked knocker. U19 and u20 are reading solid High on pins 1 and 2 but nothing on pin 3 output. Same with the other gates in both the ic's. I am going to swap out those 2 I guess and see if that fixes it. The transistors seem to test good so I guess this is the best place to start? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thanks
Quoted from Bublehead:Is anyone remanufacturing the lift ramp hinge or the complete lift ramp with hinge and screened plastic? Or a rebuild kit for the lift ramp? My hinge is almost shot... it has like 25% of the width left hanging on, but its just a matter of when not if.
Freeplay40 makes the complete lift ramp I believe.
Quoted from Tomass:So it seems that more than just a locked knocker. U19 and u20 are reading solid High on pins 1 and 2 but nothing on pin 3 output. Same with the other gates in both the ic's. I am going to swap out those 2 I guess and see if that fixes it. The transistors seem to test good so I guess this is the best place to start? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thanks
So I replaced u20 to see if it was those ic's, but it still is acting the same. Both inputs on all the gates for u19 and u20 are steady (High) and the outputs are giving no reading at all. For all the gates to be out of spec over 2 chips seems like a problem upstream. Is there a way to identify the problem or should I start replacing each ic upstream 1 at a time? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
Quoted from Bublehead:tomass thanks for info, I sent him a PM. On the pia, look for bridges and shorts around the repair areas or common runs... if you have two outputs locking up, look to see if input line traces are physically close to each other and hand trace the runs from source to input looking for shorts... pia troubles are easier to troubleshoot with a scope though. If outputs are locking up downstream of pia, it could be a downstream component input shorted to Vcc feeding back to pia causing issues... look at the outputs of pia and their input to the drivers of the locking up channels... possibly something wrong there and not upstream of pia.
Not sure which pia is controlling those 8 solenoids. All 8 pass through u28 but not sure what is directly upstream from there.
Quoted from GRUMPY:The data bus lines are upstream of U-28. The game roms,CPU and Pia chips are all connected to the data bus lines.
So I guess I have bigger issues. I doubt it is all of u28 that is out. Probably a trace somewhere in the mix.
Quoted from Bublehead:Has anyone had an original Williams NOS Pinbot playfield professionally clear coated? Kruzman takes a pass on system 11 NOS playfields that are not diamondplated, says non DP factory sys 11 pf’s have a primer that outgasses when combined with his clear.
So anyone know a professional clear coater who does non-diamondplate System 11 NOS playfield’s?
I have heard about sys 11 issues too. What I hear is that the issue is around the inserts. I did my own and used an intercoat clear around my inserts. Mine came out very nice but I did 10+ coats and wet sanded to glass-like. I am not sure who does them professionally though. I am also going to clear my pinbot and Cyclone as soon as I have them ready. I'll see how that goes.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:What is an "intercoat"?
I restored my F-14 with no issues, but I also replaced all the inserts (I used whatever 2PAC they sell at my local NAPA). I have a used PinBot playfield in better shape than the one in my game now and am planning to clear it, just haven't had time to get into the project yet. There is nothing on vid1900's guide to playfield restoration that warns off of clearing sys11 games; I can't imagine what "primer" (or much else) would be outgassing after 30+ years. Possibly the varnish topcoat could react with the clear; personally, I won't do a playfield restoration without first removing the old topcoat with magic eraser and alcohol.
Clearcoat not meant as a top coat, but a protective coat. Usually between layers of work that you want to protect before doing additional work.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Well, shoot, anybody *not* doing that needs to go back and read the directions.
- First coat to lock down existing paint (any replacement inserts go in before first coat).
- Second coat after paint repairs
- Third coat after any waterslide decals
@bublehead, if you haven't read Vid's Guide to playfield restoration, it's really comprehensive, check it out. He doesn't mention anything about inherent trouble with clearing sys11 play fields, but it would be interesting to hear what he had to say on the matter.
Well, I am talking about a product made for an intercoat. I do not use 2pak as an intercoat since that is when these issues can occur according to what I have read.
Quoted from mark532011:Hey guys, got a question. I'm looking at a possible pinbot purchase. Sadly its sight unseen from overseas as part of a container buy. No pictures, description says "topper broken to the half , cabinet ruined one side . playfield ok . Not work , to check , boards seems good but was stopped a lot of years"
Price is going to be around $1000 with shipping.
Seems kind of high for a sight-unseen pinbot that probably won't work but on the other hand pins are getting tough to find. What do you think?
Could be a nightmare. I would try to insist on pics.
Can someone post a pic of this relay board? I am trying to figure out why my left side GI is out and saw this. Seems odd that the ground contact is jumped to the pad next to it.
20190706_224523 (resized).jpg
It is the one unscrewed in this pic. Top right underside of pf.
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So I am just getting into the gameplay some. Can someone tell me the point of solar value? Mine seems to always award it when I run the left ramp but it tells me to hit this during multiball when 1 ball is back into an eye. Is it supposed to award this when not in multiball? Also is it any different during multiball? Mostly wondering if my game is acting correctly since I did a good deal of alkaline abatement. Thanks for any info.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Shooting the left ramp while in single ball mode will add value to the solar value jackpot. Shooting the ramp in multiball with one ball locked in either eye will award the solar value jackpot. Solar value stacks from game to game so it can get pretty high if no one has cashed it in in a while.
Ooooooh! Thanks, all makes sense now!
Quoted from mrWol64:You certainly know when you hit the Solar value on big points,.. the explosions and flashing lights are hard to miss. However getting all the planets and hearing “we control the Universe” is my favourite
Hopefully I will get to that at some point. I am really enjoying this game! Played it with my wife for probably 45 min last night and she was having fun too. I really need to get a new plunger though, mine is slightly bent and I can't get consistent results on the skill shot. It mostly hits something before the spiral ramp and flubs. It is frustrating.
Q: do you guys have it get in a perpetual, back and forth, at times on the top pop bumper against the rubber to the left? It starts and I nudge it so it comes out to not cause damage.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Score the 100000 point skill shot on the 10th. ball plunge of the same ball.
Wow! 10 on the same ball! Doubt I will see that anytime soon. I got half way to the sun the other night which was a mile stone for me.
Quoted from branlon8:It seems to me, it kind of depends on how much time you have to knock down the 3 drops. Isn‘t the default around 15 seconds ? At that I‘ve gotten there maybe twice. When I first got the game, it was shorter and completely impossible to get more than a few planets.
Anybody know what qualifies the target on the right side of the playfield which spots a planet?
Left inlane. But that shot is nearly impossible from the flipper. The only time I hit it is by accident.
Quoted from Rat:Extra balls count as the same ball for the plunge so if you get a couple of extra balls in a row it makes it more achievable.
Oh nice, yeah that helps.
Quoted from FLASHBALL:Unfortunately. MY visor opens, closes, then reopens, every time I complete the grid. Annoying. But not 100% sure why it does it every time. I also get airballs because of this. But rarely do they ever get stuck. Just momentarily trapped under the visor until it reopens.
Does it stay open after the second time?
Quoted from Blackbeard:Guys I need to order some
White gi bulbs from comet today. I HATE the red/blue ones in there now.
Which ones look good? Frosted?
I prefer frosted. I think they have 3 levels of brightness and I go with the middle (sun?) But that is personal preference.
Quoted from wolffcub:Ok so only had the machine for 2 days and I have some questions. All my displays are not working but game plays. I was wondering a few things.
Online I see that Jupiter always flickers, what is the significance of this ?
Who sells a good decal set ? I’m going to cut a new uppermost cap section that goes above the visor on the laser table and I need a sticker for the new one.
If you reach jupiter it is a special "free credit"
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:I’d take a new ramp, too! More rare than hen’s teeth
I got one last year but it wasn't cheap. It was 100ish on ebay. I have seen them since as well. Someone remade them.
Quoted from imadork8:Actually got one more question for the group because I cannot seem to find the right part to fix the ramp. Someone had used a bulky screw and nut for the ramp raising arm (I can't imagine this is the correct hardware for this area). It's very bulky it seems to be getting stuck occasionally when trying to rais and lower. Any thoughts on what I can replace this with to make a little more low profile.
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There should be a post on the other end from that nut. Make sure that post goes into the metal slot on the underside of the ramp.
Quoted from PPS:All .. happy to say that finally we have the Vortex Ramps in and got the flaps on them. We have them in RED (original pinbot), LIGHT BLUE (pinbot or jackbot), and BLACK (jackbot). We have two options - BLUE STEEL or STAINLESS Flaps. These ramps are original WMS tooling, with flaps from the blueprint, and includes the flaps rivetted on the ramp, as well as includes the decals. pps Pinbot #jackbot
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What is the price on these?
Quoted from Aniraf:If GRUMPY is right, the logic board is good so I am probably dealing with some standard old game nonsense.
He has helped me several times. He knows his stuff. Just follow his directions and he will help you get it up and running.
Quoted from Aniraf:Ok, I am impatient. I decided to over amp it and burn
Quoted from Aniraf:How do you test the U20? Q29 looks good.
This all traces back to that brown wire that is connected to the relay I replaced. What tells that relay to send electricity to the coils off that brown lead? I feel like I am barking up the wrong tree and it is probably a hidden wiring issue in this rats nest :/.
Its the ground that is controlled. Power is there and the transistor allows it to find ground. You need to test q29 in diode test just like q33. You can test the u20 with a logic probe but disconnect the connector first.
No offense but GRUMPY was systematically walking you through diagnosing the issue and kinda went rogue. Just slow down and do what he is suggesting and then report back the findings and wait. It is more likely that u20 or q29 is faulty than a wire from what I have seen and read in your explanation.
Quoted from Aniraf:Not to bother, but if you could find the pinwiki on this, it would be really helpful. I have been searching for things since you mentioned it and I can’t seem to find any good articles about probing U20. When I work on arcade machines, there is always a clear 5+ tab to hook your logic probe to. I can’t even find a 5+ on this board .
There should be a 5v and a gnd test lug to the left of the battery holder. I will go get you a pic here in a min. Do you know how to test the chip or would you like a pointer or 2? Don't want to assume you don't know how but I would be happy to help if you want it.
So open the coin door and go into second test mode and leave it on the bad coil. Then see if pin 1 pulses (input signal). If so, see if pin 3 also pulses (the output). If that is pulsing you can see if the signal makes its way to the transistors.
Quoted from imadork8:Hey Pin Bot Team, need a little help please.
Lately, when turning my machine on, it will quickly shut off, and restart, and shut off, and restart and do this pretty consistently. If I leave it on allowing the machine to do this this for a while, it will get better and start working after some time. Could take hours though. Almost seems like it needs to warm up completely before it starts functioning without restarting. Someone mentioned I might need a new power supply, but I'm not sure, this is all fairly new to me.
Thank you for any guidance on how to fix this annoying problem!
I would check for cold solder joints on the connectors too. Also cold joints on any previous work done to the boards.
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Wasilla, AK