Orlando, FL
I also have an original power supply and flipper power board.
(Topic ID: 70838)
Linked Games
Pinbot
Williams, 1986
Topic Gallery
Quoted from Aniraf:I thought about the two old flasher bulbs I still had in there. I removed those, just wondering if something in that circuit was wonky. Now with those removed the fuse does not blow, but also none of the solenoids work (except flippers).
Are you thinking it would be a transistor on the power board? I cannot for the life of me remember how to test that board properly or the solenoid voltage coming out of it.
You need to test the fuse with a meter, it is most likely blown again. Before you turn on the power again, disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19 from the cpu board. When you turn it on now use a meter and check for dc volts at both sides of F-2 and F-4 fuses. If you have 32-34 volts on both fuses then you can reconnect one of the 3 connectors back while watching the fuses. If there was no sparking, then connect another connector. Let me know which connector causes the fuse to blow.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You need to test the fuse with a meter, it is most likely blown again. Before you turn on the power again, disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19 from the cpu board. When you turn it on now use a meter and check for dc volts at both sides of F-2 and F-4 fuses. If you have 32-34 volts on both fuses then you can reconnect one of the 3 connectors back while watching the fuses. If there was no sparking, then connect another connector. Let me know which connector causes the fuse to blow.
It is 1J-12. I’m looking now!! Ty for the lead, hopefully I find it.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You need to test the fuse with a meter, it is most likely blown again. Before you turn on the power again, disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19 from the cpu board. When you turn it on now use a meter and check for dc volts at both sides of F-2 and F-4 fuses. If you have 32-34 volts on both fuses then you can reconnect one of the 3 connectors back while watching the fuses. If there was no sparking, then connect another connector. Let me know which connector causes the fuse to blow.
As suspected, the flashers are somehow messed up. I don’t see any faulty/burned transistors or any crossed wires? I removed the two old flash bulbs (the rest are LED) and basically cut that circuit under the sockets. It still blows the fuse. I’m confused :/.
B587027A-8B12-4097-96AD-049396734CBB (resized).jpegQuoted from Aniraf:I don’t see any faulty/burned transistors
[quoted image]
You'll need to test the associated transistors with a Multimeter. They dont always look burnt when they go bad.
Here's a quick easy way to do it.
SmartSelect_20210914-153320_Chrome (resized).jpgQuoted from FLASHBALL:You'll need to test the associated transistors with a Multimeter. They dont always look burnt when they go bad.
Here's a quick easy way to do it.[quoted image]
TY! That is very helpful.
What about the little ones that do not have the metal tab on top?
Quoted from Aniraf:As suspected, the flashers are somehow messed up. I don’t see any faulty/burned transistors or any crossed wires? I removed the two old flash bulbs (the rest are LED) and basically cut that circuit under the sockets. It still blows the fuse. I’m confused :/.
[quoted image]
Here is a quick easy way to test. Turn on the game, black lead under the ground braid. DMM set to ohms, J-12 removed. Touch each pin of J-12 on the CPU board with the red lead. Does any pin show zero ohms? No, then change DMM to DC volts and use red lead and test each pin of the J-12 connector harness. Replace the bulbs you removed. Does any pin not have 34 volts?
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Got some leftover parts from my playfield swap if anyone is interested. Here are some pics of the bigger stuff.
Interesting that the grid still looks good 
3 (resized).JPGQuoted from PM_Jeremy:Interesting that the grid still looks good
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"d8a15c87a05696c83b1144b700455ca04219383f-1631746993-1800"};
//]]>[quoted image]
Mylar works wonders... mine looks identical.
Quoted from PM_Jeremy:Interesting that the grid still looks good [quoted image]
Yeah, it's in pretty good shape.
Awesome, thank you both! I’ll test ASAP!
Quoted from GRUMPY:Here is a quick easy way to test. Turn on the game, black lead under the ground braid. DMM set to ohms, J-12 removed. Touch each pin of J-12 on the CPU board with the red lead. Does any pin show zero ohms? No, then change DMM to DC volts and use red lead and test each pin of the J-12 connector harness. Replace the bulbs you removed. Does any pin not have 34 volts?
GRUMPY do I do the ohm test with the bulbs out? With the bulbs in I get 0 ohms on every pin except for 3 and 4 (left to right).
None of the pins off the board show any voltage except pin 3 which shows .6 VDC.
Quoted from Aniraf:Awesome, thank you both! I’ll test ASAP!
GRUMPY do I do the ohm test with the bulbs out? With the bulbs in I get 0 ohms on every pin except for 3 and 4 (left to right).
None of the pins off the board show any voltage except pin 3 which shows .6 VDC.
I may have not been clear on the test. J-12 removed from the cpu. Then test the cpu board J-12 pins for ohms. Zero ohms is bad, OL or .6 meg or greater is fine.
Quoted from themotherbrain:Turned my games on today and saw my player 4 display crapped out on me. Anybody got a spare?
Unfortunately no spare here. But I highly recommend Xpin displays if you ever decide to upgrade all of them.
https://xpinpinball.com/product/williams-system-11-special/
This is just a stock photo of the red/blue in Pinbot, but I put the orange ones in my Taxi and the greens in my Paragon and I love how they look.
SmartSelect_20210919-120856_Chrome (resized).jpgSmartSelect_20210919-121243_Gallery (resized).jpgQuoted from GRUMPY:I may have not been clear on the test. J-12 removed from the cpu. Then test the cpu board J-12 pins for ohms. Zero ohms is bad, OL or .6 meg or greater is fine.
Ahh, got it. I had OL on all pins except for 3 and 4 where I had .6 or greater. I tried to test the legs of those transistors, but I am not confident I got in there properly. I think I need to pull the board out a little bit and ensure I am making good contact with each of the legs.
Are there any other things I could be testing? I keep hoping that it will start working again, but it blows that fuse every time I plug it back in. :/
Quoted from Aniraf:As suspected, the flashers are somehow messed up. I don’t see any faulty/burned transistors or any crossed wires? I removed the two old flash bulbs (the rest are LED) and basically cut that circuit under the sockets. It still blows the fuse. I’m confused :/.
[quoted image]
I had a Pinbot more or less meltdown on me after i put LEDs in it.
It was the flasher bulbs. I recommend you pull every LED out of every flasher bulb socket and see if the fuse still blows.
Quoted from Aniraf:Ahh, got it. I had OL on all pins except for 3 and 4 where I had .6 or greater. I tried to test the legs of those transistors, but I am not confident I got in there properly. I think I need to pull the board out a little bit and ensure I am making good contact with each of the legs.
Are there any other things I could be testing? I keep hoping that it will start working again, but it blows that fuse every time I plug it back in. :/
So that test worked well. The cpu board seems to be good. So with J-12 disconnected, and a new fuse installed, and all the flasher bulbs installed, turn on the power. Does the fuse burn now?
Quoted from GRUMPY:So that test worked well. The cpu board seems to be good. So with J-12 disconnected, and a new fuse installed, and all the flasher bulbs installed, turn on the power. Does the fuse burn now?
Nope, everything boots up and runs clean until I plug in J-12.
Quoted from Morinack:I had a Pinbot more or less meltdown on me after i put LEDs in it.
It was the flasher bulbs. I recommend you pull every LED out of every flasher bulb socket and see if the fuse still blows.
I’ve had it modded and running completely flawlessly for over two years in a public place. It has to be something that came unsoldered or a locked on switch I can’t find. If GRUMPY is right, the logic board is good so I am probably dealing with some standard old game nonsense.
Quoted from Aniraf:If GRUMPY is right, the logic board is good so I am probably dealing with some standard old game nonsense.
He has helped me several times. He knows his stuff. Just follow his directions and he will help you get it up and running.
Quoted from Tomass:He has helped me several times. He knows his stuff. Just follow his directions and he will help you get it up and running.
I completely agree! He has helped me before as well…he is a pinbot genius! I would gladly pay for the level of support he gives on these forums!
Quoted from themotherbrain:Turned my games on today and saw my player 4 display crapped out on me. Anybody got a spare?
Swap the Player 3/4 displays and cables around to make sure it's the display that went bad.
Quoted from GRUMPY:So that test worked well. The cpu board seems to be good. So with J-12 disconnected, and a new fuse installed, and all the flasher bulbs installed, turn on the power. Does the fuse burn now?
Since the fuse doesn't burn, you have a playfield issue. My guess is the visor motor circuit is the issue. I say this because the visor motor needs to run at start up for the game to function. I would find the relay that activates the visor motor, I would then unsolder the brown/green wire from the relay and insulate. I would then reconnect J-12 connector and power on the game. Does the fuse burn now?
I recently picked up the CPR repro backglass from Starship Fantasy.
Has anybody else had an issue with massive gaps on the sides of the backglass? There’s a little over 1/4” on each side after all the trim installed.
Yes.. Hasselhoff is staring at you.
286F03A1-59AE-46A0-BF85-17B37A1A713B (resized).jpegQuoted from Wharhed:I recently picked up the CPR repro backglass from Starship Fantasy.
Has anybody else had an issue with massive gaps on the sides of the backglass? There’s a little over 1/4” on each side after all the trim installed.
Yes.. Hasselhoff is staring at you.[quoted image]
My factory back glass had that issue. I just put some black foam there and it worked pretty perfectly.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Since the fuse doesn't burn, you have a playfield issue. My guess is the visor motor circuit is the issue. I say this because the visor motor needs to run at start up for the game to function. I would find the relay that activates the visor motor, I would then unsolder the brown/green wire from the relay and insulate. I would then reconnect J-12 connector and power on the game. Does the fuse burn now?
I was looking at the schematic tonight and I was wondering if it could be the visor motor. I will try to get back over to the bar asap and do some further digging. Ty!
Quoted from Wharhed:I recently picked up the CPR repro backglass from Starship Fantasy.
Has anybody else had an issue with massive gaps on the sides of the backglass? There’s a little over 1/4” on each side after all the trim installed.
Yes.. Hasselhoff is staring at you.[quoted image]
Can you post the actual measurements of the glass you received? Also did you have the original one to compare it to?
I'm working on a fuse blowing problem and wanted to see if anyone has encountered this.
- Games powers on fine and goes through startup sequence(visor open/close, etc).
- During the first part of the attract sequence, says he sees you, etc.
- The "second" part of the attract, visor opens up all the way and then I can see the solenoid fuse blow.
- The inline fuse to the visor motor is fine
Does anyone know what comes immediately after the visor opens during the attract loop?
the left eye socket is on the special solenoid circuit so maybe it's blowing there because of an issue there... do all your pops and slings work correctly in the game?
Quoted from Wharhed:massive gaps on the sides of the backglass
I need to push my glass all the way to the left and I end up with a gap on the right.
Used some adhesive back foam from the hardware store to fill in the gap from behind in line with the wood support, looks fine now.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/M-D-Expandable-Foam-Weatherstrip-1-2-in-x-1-2-in-x-20-ft-E/1002926160
Quoted from Robotworkshop:Can you post the actual measurements of the glass you received? Also did you have the original one to compare it to?
I’ll measure it and let you know. No, when I got my pinbot, the translite was taped to a piece of ill fitting plexiglass. I figured I was doing an upgrade, which it is for the most part.
Quoted from slochar:the left eye socket is on the special solenoid circuit so maybe it's blowing there because of an issue there... do all your pops and slings work correctly in the game?
I'll replace the fuse and run through the tests again and see where it dies.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:I'll replace the fuse and run through the tests again and see where it dies.
Handy to have breakers when running down issues that are hard to find. Then you dont have to go through too many fuses. Just alligator clip them in.
SmartSelect_20210923-083109_Messenger (resized).jpgQuoted from FLASHBALL:Handy to have breakers when running down issues that are hard to find. Then you dont have to go through too many fuses. Just alligator clip them in.
[quoted image]
Agreed. I have a set and given this a 2.5 slow-blow, I'm going to use my 1 amp.
Here is what I did this morning:
Run through the auto solenoid test; Everything works and the breaker doesn't trip.
Exit test mode and let attract loop run to see when breaker trips.
- Right after he says "I see you". (reset breaker)
- At start of it explaining the game rules/objectives (reset breaker)
- As soon as it start to show high scores (reset breaker)
Run through the solenoid test again, but stop at each option and have it run 5x
- The Sun flasher trips breaker on 3rd flash every time.
I'm going to see if there is a tiny solder bridge on the socket and I'm open to other suggestions.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:I'm going to see if there is a tiny solder bridge on the socket and I'm open to other suggestions.
Did you do any repairs or work on anything under the playfield recently before this began happening?
Sometimes it's useful to go back and analyze what you did and where you were to find tricky problems like this.
Quoted from FLASHBALL:Did you do any repairs or work on anything under the playfield recently before this began happening?
Sometimes it's useful to go back and analyze what you did and where you were to find tricky problems like this.
Playfield swap was done, but not by me.
After removing the Sun flashers, I can't get it to fail in test mode, but it trips the breaker every time during the rule explanation.
Right after it says "To Open Visor" IIRC, the eye flashers should light and that's when it trips the breaker now.
I've got a couple of videos below capturing it at the same point both times.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1xmQBNjGnGN1wN
wFjXQgX8h_Yiy0zKf?usp=sharing
I'm pouring over the wiring, particularly around the visor, right now to see if I can find anything that jumps out at me.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Right after it says "To Open Visor" IIRC,
This is probably irrelevant, but immediately before the "TO OPEN VISOR" display, the display says "HIT 5 BANKS". While that message is being displayed, the flipper solenoid is energized. Unless you actually try using a flipper, the flipper solenoid is kept energized until the end of the rules. This is necessary because the left eye lamps in the visor are on a special solenoid circuit, and those are only active when the flipper relay is energized. In any case, it may be worth taking a look at the flipper relay as well.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Since the fuse doesn't burn, you have a playfield issue. My guess is the visor motor circuit is the issue. I say this because the visor motor needs to run at start up for the game to function. I would find the relay that activates the visor motor, I would then unsolder the brown/green wire from the relay and insulate. I would then reconnect J-12 connector and power on the game. Does the fuse burn now?
It must be something else. It blows when the motor is disconnected. I am trying to test each pin and narrow it down now.
Quoted from Aniraf:It must be something else. It blows when the motor is disconnected. I am trying to test each pin and narrow it down now.
Ok, it is Solenoid 14 “Solenoid Select Relay”. I don’t know what that runs yet. The visor motor and everything work except it won’t recognize the balls in the trough when it is unplugged. I will keep researching.
Quoted from Aniraf:I’m not sure which relay it is yet, but I would not be surprised if it was the one that has had a broken cover since I bought the game.
Does anyone think the jumper to ground is weird on this?
[quoted image]
This is correct for a AC relay. But your relay cover is broken. Whatever broke the cover may have done internal damage too.
Quoted from GRUMPY:This is correct for a AC relay. But your relay cover is broken. Whatever broke the cover may have done internal damage too.
Do you think I just need to replace that relay and I might be back in business? It has actually been broken since I bought the game, it always functioned fine, but I figure they don’t put the cover on there for nothing. It probably cannot take dust and dirt very well. So certainly something that would possibly break over time.
I ordered a few replacements from Marco. I can pop one in and get testing again. If you think I might be on the right track?
Lastly, do you have a suggestion for a punch down tool for those stupid plugs in the back box? I had to remove the wires one at a time to find which one was killing the game. I can’t get them back very easily.
Quoted from Aniraf:Do you think I just need to replace that relay and I might be back in business? It has actually been broken since I bought the game, it always functioned fine, but I figure they don’t put the cover on there for nothing. It probably cannot take dust and dirt very well. So certainly something that would possibly break over time.
I ordered a few replacements from Marco. I can pop one in and get testing again. If you think I might be on the right track?
Lastly, do you have a suggestion for a punch down tool for those stupid plugs in the back box? I had to remove the wires one at a time to find which one was killing the game. I can’t get them back very easily.
When this relay activates, it powers up all 8 C side solenoids. It can be that the relay is bad, the diode on the relay board is shorted or one of the 8 C side solenoids is shorted.
As far as a IDC punch down tool, I got a very nice tool from Swinks Pinball. It will last a lifetime.
Disconnected J11, J12 and J19 - does not trip breaker, so i'm going to assume the MPU is good for now.
Connect only J11 - breaker trips
Connect only J12 - breaker does not trip
Connect only J19 - breaker does not trip
Connect any two - breaker trips
There is something bridged/shared between these and I'm having a hell of a time finding it.
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
