Pinbot
Williams, 1986So I fixed my board and booted the game. Everything seems to work except the slingshots and the pop bumpers. In switch test, none of the switches will register. In play, when I hit the top and bottom pop, it triggers the left and right sling??
The top sling coil is like 5000 degrees like it is locked on, but it isn’t. I can’t figure out what is going on. :/
Ok, did a lot more diagnostic work today. Unfortunately didn’t solve anything, but I can be more clear on the problem.
The failure is across the two switches which trigger the slings and all three switches which trigger the pops. There is no shared line, and in fact most of these colors are not in the switch matrix. Colors are like solid white, orange-black and black-orange. Is it possible I did something to one of the ICs on the board that is messing this up?
I am confused how these switches are not in the switch matrix. Are they a different style of switch?
2B698C35-5ECC-40F4-AB41-7DA7269FEDEC (resized).jpeg43D5CF44-D00B-4329-B1E7-9C9CFFA29C30 (resized).jpeg581B9C45-DB66-491D-BEE8-FE3DE71133B9 (resized).jpegD0A9CC25-0979-49E9-9641-C43B41DA8AA1 (resized).jpegQuoted from Aniraf:Colors are like solid white, orange-black and black-orange.
The white wire is ground. Orange/black is the special solenoid switch wire.
Quoted from Aniraf:I am confused how these switches are not in the switch matrix. Are they a different style of switch?
Special solenoids have switches directly connected to the transistor and by pass the switch matrix.
You will need to disconnect J-18 and J-19 and then test the pins of J-18 with a volt meter.
Quoted from GRUMPY:The white wire is ground. Orange/black is the special solenoid switch wire.
Special solenoids have switches directly connected to the transistor and by pass the switch matrix.
You will need to disconnect J-18 and J-19 and then test the pins of J-18 with a volt meter.
Ok, everything is 2.1VDC except pin 5 and 6 starting at the top.
Quoted from GRUMPY:[quoted image]
Sorry, yeah I found it. I can’t read the voltage on that diagram.
Quoted from Aniraf:Ok, everything is 2.1VDC
They should be 5 volts, then when you press the corresponding switch it will drop the zero volts.
Quoted from GRUMPY:They should be 5 volts, then when you press the corresponding switch it will drop the zero volts.
So what might be limiting the power? I tested all of them for continuity and they seemed to work fine. Should I test the voltage at the switches?
Quoted from Aniraf:Should I test the voltage at the switches?
There will not be any voltage at the switches with the connector removed.
Quoted from Aniraf:So what might be limiting the power?
A bad U-45, U-50 or U49 chip. Are any of these chips socketed?
Quoted from GRUMPY:There will not be any voltage at the switches with the connector removed.
A bad U-45, U-50 or U49 chip. Are any of these chips socketed?
None of those chips are socketed. I could shotgun them if you think it is worth replacing them. I just need to order the right stuff.
You could cut pin 6 of U-49 and then retest J-18 pin 5 to see if it has gone from 2.1 volts to 5 volts.
Quoted from GRUMPY:If I was to take a guess I would replace U-49 because it connects to all six special solenoids.
Do you know happen to know the part number? I can’t see it in any of my pictures and I left the bar :/. Also, if it makes sense I have a logic probe and I could do a test on the IC.
The part is a hex buffer,
https://www.jameco.com/z/7407-Major-Brands-IC-7407-HEX-BUFFER-DRIVER_49120.html?CID=MERCH
Quoted from Aniraf:Also, if it makes sense I have a logic probe and I could do a test on the IC.
The problem is the output of U-49 is connected to the inputs of U-45 and U-50 and the connector J-18. You can't test one chip with out separating it from the other chip.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You could cut pin 6 of U-49 and then retest J-18 pin 5 to see if it has gone from 2.1 volts to 5 volts.
Is there a way to cut it without destroying it? I don’t know what it is so I can’t look up the data sheet right now. I don’t really care about destroying it if you think that is the way to go, just thinking if something else is the problem I am delaying my fix as I’ll need to order more parts.
Quoted from Aniraf:Is there a way to cut it without destroying it?
Yes. Use some anvil cutters to cut the chip lead, it can be repaired with a dot of solder.
https://www.amazon.com/Xuron-170-II-Micro-Shear-Flush-Cutter/dp/B000IBSFAI
Quoted from GRUMPY:Yes. Use some anvil cutters to cut the chip lead, it can be repaired with a dot of solder.
amazon.com link »
While I'm at this...are there any other ICs I should order just so I'm prepared to replace whatever I might need when it comes to fixing this issue? I wish I had a shop in town where I could buy this stuff :/.
I usually have some AND chips 7408, NOR chips 7402, some predrivers 2n4401, some drivers TIP 102 and some zener diodes 1n4735a and lastly some 1n4007 diodes.
I put up a post looking for help to trouble shoot my flashers issue.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-flasher-problems
Quoted from metalkatt:I put up a post looking for help to trouble shoot my flashers issue.
Sounds like the AC relay isn't working very good. Dirty contacts. Could also be cracked pins on the relay.
Quoted from GRUMPY:Sounds like the AC relay isn't working very good. Dirty contacts. Could also be cracked pins on the relay.
The AC relay on the MPU?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Nope under the play field.
Got it. I’ll check it out. Fingers crossed. Thank you
Quoted from metalkatt:I’ll check it out. Fingers crossed.
Something like this will cause problems.
cracked pins (resized).jpgQuoted from GRUMPY:I usually have some AND chips 7408, NOR chips 7402, some predrivers 2n4401, some drivers TIP 102 and some zener diodes 1n4735a and lastly some 1n4007 diodes.
OK, so for my stock I am looking at the following:
- 7407 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&pa=49120&productId=49120
- 7408 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=49146
- 7402 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=49015
- 2n4401 | https://www.jameco.com/z/2N4401T-R-Major-Brands-Transistor-2N4401-NPN-General-Purpose_38421.html
- TIP 102 | https://www.jameco.com/z/TIP102-Major-Brands-Transistor-TIP102-Darlington-NPN-100-Volt-8-Amp-TO-220_32977.html
- 1n4735a | https://www.jameco.com/z/1N4735A-Major-Brands-Zener-Diode-1N4735A-Single-6-2-Volt-5-1-watt_36126.html
- 1n4007 | https://www.jameco.com/z/1N4007-Major-Brands-Diode-1N4007-1000-Volt-1-Amp-Silicon-Rectifier_36011.html
I have the TIP102s from the prior fix. I am pretty sure I have some 1n4007s, but I'll double check. The ICs I am certain I don't have. Before I order some of these I figured I would double check the links with you to make sure I'm getting the same stuff. It would be handy to have a few around when I encounter common problems.
Quoted from Aniraf:OK, so for my stock I am looking at the following:
- 7407 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&pa=49120&productId=49120
- 7408 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=49146
- 7402 | https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=49015
- 2n4401 | https://www.jameco.com/z/2N4401T-R-Major-Brands-Transistor-2N4401-NPN-General-Purpose_38421.html
- TIP 102 | https://www.jameco.com/z/TIP102-Major-Brands-Transistor-TIP102-Darlington-NPN-100-Volt-8-Amp-TO-220_32977.html
- 1n4735a | https://www.jameco.com/z/1N4735A-Major-Brands-Zener-Diode-1N4735A-Single-6-2-Volt-5-1-watt_36126.html
- 1n4007 | https://www.jameco.com/z/1N4007-Major-Brands-Diode-1N4007-1000-Volt-1-Amp-Silicon-Rectifier_36011.html
I have the TIP102s from the prior fix. I am pretty sure I have some 1n4007s, but I'll double check. The ICs I am certain I don't have. Before I order some of these I figured I would double check the links with you to make sure I'm getting the same stuff. It would be handy to have a few around when I encounter common problems.
I guess I have 1N4004s. Looks like the 1N4007 is just a better version of that same 1000 volt 1 amp diode?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Something like this will cause problems.[quoted image]
So, upon further investigation, none of my C side functions are working. The AC units are clicking fine, but no functions.
???
Quoted from metalkatt:So, upon further investigation, none of my C side functions are working. The AC units are clicking fine, but no functions.
???
Look carefully at the relay. One time I had a relay on my Taxi where one side basically got too hot and fused itself together. See pic.
20200218_215647 (resized).jpgQuoted from GRUMPY:I need a pic of both sides.
They all look good to me.
There is that brown section on the one relay... not sure if it is a hot spot?
0859DC46-33F8-4CBF-9548-54233DEE0A32 (resized).jpeg70F8CDFD-BDFD-4CCD-BE77-CB08E82993FF (resized).jpeg1942ED56-CF19-48A2-ADC3-25E251B4ADFC (resized).jpeg1CA6AA3B-8849-451D-8DF4-DEA124E6AA49 (resized).jpegF570E69C-3DED-423A-B506-52ED8D9C4CF9 (resized).jpegE22D9C4A-00AF-4093-BF8B-817A742B2A20 (resized).jpegQuoted from metalkatt:They all look good to me.
The first relay is for the visor motor.
The second relay is for the GI lamps.
The last relay is the A/C relay. The solder connections look fine.
If you put the game in coil test and stop on solenoid #14. Do you hear/feel this relay clicking?
Quoted from GRUMPY:The first relay is for the visor motor.
The second relay is for the GI lamps.
The last relay is the A/C relay. The solder connections look fine.
If you put the game in coil test and stop on solenoid #14. Do you hear/feel this relay clicking?
Yes, I feel the relay clicking fine. All of my C sides are not working, including the knocker. Do you think it maybe something at the MPU, that controls the ac relay?
Quoted from metalkatt:Do you think it maybe something at the MPU, that controls the ac relay?
Nope, it will the relay it's self. If you can get the cover off to look the contacts, is there any dirt or dead bugs in there?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Nope, it will the relay it's self. If you can get the cover off to look the contacts, is there any dirt or dead bugs in there?
I never had any luck getting those old yellow covers off. Suggestions for that? Heat?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Nope, it will the relay it's self. If you can get the cover off to look the contacts, is there any dirt or dead bugs in there?
I’m going to replace it with a new one on hand and see if that resolves the issue. Fingers crossed. I’ll let you know how I make out. Thank you for the help!!
Quoted from metalkatt:I’ll let you know how I make out. Thank you for the help!!
Just the relay or the whole board?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Just the relay or the whole board?
Just the relay
Quoted from metalkatt:Just the relay
The ac relay ended up being the culprit. After finally getting the old one off the board, soldering a new one in place... fired it up and I have all my C side functions working properly. The old relay looked good inside but something wasn’t doing its job.... glad I got it running. Thank you for the help!!
Anyone see the recent pinbot listed? Absurd pricing.
Look at coin door and bonus multiplier decals.
Some people are crazzzzy....
Quoted from Blackbeard:Anyone see the recent pinbot listed? Absurd pricing.
Look at coin door and bonus multiplier decals.
Some people are crazzzzy....
"I believe their is no Pinbot more beautiful than this one."
Guess he doesn't get around much.
If it’s towards the top it’s been re listed. I saw it the first time several weeks ago when it was posted and thought to myself, wow it does look good. But there’s not a Pinbot in existence that’s going to fetch near that much.
Quoted from Jmckune:If it’s towards the top it’s been re listed. I saw it the first time several weeks ago when it was posted and thought to myself, wow it does look good. But there’s not a Pinbot in existence that’s going to fetch near that much.
You gotta zoom in on the pics. The bonus multiplier decals are all messed up. And theres wear all over.
For that price you'd think you'd at least have a repro pf.
What a joke.
SIDE NOTE: how you liking that taxi? LOVE mine.
Quoted from Jmckune:If it’s towards the top it’s been re listed. I saw it the first time several weeks ago when it was posted and thought to myself, wow it does look good. But there’s not a Pinbot in existence that’s going to fetch near that much.
It is incredibly nice, but it's hard to pay that much for a machine that typically costs under 1/2 that amount.
He lives close to me and it had been up for sale for quite some time now.
“I believe their is no Pinbot more beautiful than this one.” Price- $$WTF$$
<walks to gameroom, looks at Pinbot, remembers paying $750 for it>
Nope, can’t agree with that at all, and, yes, “there” is one more beautiful than that.
Quoted from Blackbeard:SIDE NOTE: how you liking that taxi? LOVE mine.
I’ve resorted to going and playing the one at the local barcade. Mine is still sitting in the garage in the moving configuration. Dads been helping me renovate my house and he got the flu. We’ve made no progress in the past week and until the bathroom is put back together I can’t live there because the old water shut offs were no good so we had to turn water off to whole house 
so my Taxi is taunting me, folded up, unable to be played yet because I don’t have a spot that’s ready to set it up as after the bathrooms done going to sand and refinish hardwood floors.
Quoted from Daditude:It is incredibly nice
I disagree.
If you look at the pf up close you’ll see wear. And those multiplier decals. Ugh
It’s a 2500 pinbot tops.
Quoted from GRUMPY:You could cut pin 6 of U-49 and then retest J-18 pin 5 to see if it has gone from 2.1 volts to 5 volts.
Hey GRUMPY i was able to get over and cut the leg. I still get 2.1VDC once it is severed. Also I read 2.1VDC on the cut leg (input).
What should I do next?
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Phoenix, AZ
