This is a start up self test, if it does not complete the test it will not start a game.

it must have run then because I was able to manually eject the ball and play up until I hit an eye socket.

Inkochnito if I meter the 34v line on the bridge board any only see 28.6v, does that seem like a problem to you?

Measure the AC input, take that number multiply by 1.414. Then subtract .6 volts. This should be the same as your output. Working in reverse would be 28.6 + .6 = 29.2 ÷ 1.414 = 20.6 input.

Replaced with #6 and cleaned the threads. All is well. I tend to use washers also.

My bigger question is around this being a potential cause for the solenoids failing to fire. If you think I am barking up the right tree I’ll get those tests going ASAP! Also, a guy in town may have a spare power supply I can use to test with. Does that seem logical?

No, unless there is a poor connection somewhere that is causing the lower voltage which then opens up not allowing current flow for the coil.

Do you have any suggestions around what I should be diagnosing? I’ve never seen coils fire in a test mode but not during play. All I could think is that the power was dropping when the play started.

I need to get over there today or tomorrow to do further testing/repair. I have an event on Monday and ideally I would have it running since it is a really popular game.

Usually this a program issue, I have only seen this on Pinbot when the Visor self test failed during boot up. The motor has to run and open/close both switches.

28.6 volts is within specs and will fire coils with plenty of power.

Program as in my main board could be having issues?

Look for leaked battery damage on mainboard... Even a little leakage left for a short time can really cause some funky things to start happening. But I think when he says program, he means maybe a bad rom image or logic problem, but if a factory reset doesnt make it start working, at least one cycle, then yeah, it may be time to reflash the roms or replace them. If a coil fires in test, the only thing preventing it from firing during gameplay is a logic or program issue.

More likely visor switch issues.

I replaced the batteries with the solid state memory over a year ago. At the time I investigated for battery damage and didn't see anything. When I started to look into this issue I saw the screen flash up a "U25 BAD RAM" message during one of my boots. I turned it off, inspected again, and when it rebooted it worked fine. Certainly weird.

I'll check them out. I've replaced one of them already...maybe the other is failing. That would cause the game not to fire the solenoids?

I could be.
It's easy to test the bridge rectifiers.
Unplug the connector going to the bridge rectifiers and do the diode test on them.

Yes because it did not pass a self test of the visor mechanism. No point to play the game if the visor doesn't open.

Would the game actually start? It seems to literally start the game if I coin it up.

Thanks for all the help on this!

I had a similar problem. My visor would run up/down/up/down/up/down stay down then finally kick a ball. Found out one of my visor switches was broken.

If you visor is not moving, investigate the whole assembly first. You say you hear it but it doesnt move? Maybe the little knob that inserts into the visor plate broke off? Just open it up and check it all out. Doesnt hurt to do a cleaning on it and the switches anyway.

The game thinks there is a problem with the visor assembly. Pretty confident that's why it's not ejecting the ball for you.

Wow! So GRUMPY and FLASHBALL you we’re totally right. I found that the solder point on one of the visor switches was bad which caused tiny vibration in the wires to act like it was flipping on and off. I fixed that and powered back on to test. I then noticed that none of my solenoids were firing in test mode. I went to the Inkochnito bridge board and noticed that the top fuse was burned out. I replaced that, then magic happened for 2 seconds. The game started running the power on tests then literally caught fire!!

One of these BDX53C transistors blew up! I don’t have the slightest idea what could cause that! I am now taking the board home to clean and test with my multimeter since the bar doesn’t need any more electrical fires.

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Here is the damage after cleaning. It took off one of the pads, but it doesn’t look too bad. Hopefully I can fix it.

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You either have a coincidence or a short on the 28 volt lamps. When you were working on the visor switch wires could you have bumped one of the 28 volt bulb sockets thus shorting out and melting the transistor?

Maybe a good idea to change Q-5 too.

It would have had to rest in the shorted position. I certainly jiggled the wires around trying to make sure there were no other switches falsely registering. I can comb through that wire mess and try to see if somehow I got something touching. That would explain why everything seemed to be working fine for the few seconds I left it on while I was figuring out wtf just happened.

The tabs where the wires are soldered to can rotate and touch each other which will short out the 28 volt circuit and burn the fuse. The transistor is rated for 5 amps and the fuse is a 7 amps slow blow. It is real easy to lean against a wire while working on something causing the tab on the bulb socket to rotate and touch the other one.

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Q9 Is right visor GI. Maybe something was touching after you reinstalled everything in the assembly? Kind of an odd turn of events. I've only ever had smoke in a machine from an old ceramic capacitor overheating in a bally and blowing up.

That just seems like a shit design :/. If I replace the Q9 with one of these (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/511-BDX53C) do I have to be concerned that I lost that solder pad on the back of the PCB for the right leg? It doesn’t seem to connect to anything, so I’m not sure if it is important.

Yeah, I’m “lucky”. I mean, it is a great learning experience but I have real people who love to play this game and I feel bad having it out of rotation.

Use a TIP 102 instead as its 60% stronger.

It helps hold the transistor in place but shouldn't be a big issue

What does TIP mean? Does mouser sell those? I only see two types in stock.

Always a good bet!

I guess I should ask, is this the correct other transistor for Q5. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/512-2N4401BU

I know! I wish I knew 10% of what they know! This forum provides insane levels of help! I appreciate it so much!

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/TIP102?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvAvBNgSS9LqqWlVvPGXJsr

Yep.

Out of curiosity, how do you know that these are even the same part? Is it just experience that leads you to that, or is there a way to search for properties of an IC?

Yes there are data sheets available for electronic components. After repairing pins and videos for 30+ years you pick up some things.

Should I have ordered TIP122s? Looking at the diagram I am wondering if the ones I had in there are too high of voltage? They look stock though.

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BDX53c, Tip 120, Tip 122, Tip 102 will all work. Tip 102 is the strongest transistor of the 4.

2n3904 and 2n4401 will both work but the 2n4401 is the strongest of the 2.

Oh, ok I see. It is so hard to know this stuff without someone to teach you! I’ve been trying to trace this schematic and figure out how in the hell you guys knew Q9 drives the high voltage lamps. I am completely lost other than that section of the drawing. I don’t even see those lights on the lamp matrix.

Here is a very important page in the manual. You pic showed Q-9 smoked. I looked at this page in the manual for Q-9. It tells me that solenoid #10 is the right side visor general illumination, that it is a controlled solenoid which means that it is powered 100% of the time and be a red power wire. The control wire is brown/red and connects to the CPU board at J-12 pin 2. Also the control wire goes to the play field thru plug 8P3 pin 10, Q-9 is the control transistor and that it controls #1251 flash lamps. If you look up #1251 lamps on line you will find they are 28 volt bulbs, and since this is the same voltage as the B+ then you would know there are no dropping resistors in series.

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You will only see 6 volt lamps on the lamp matrix, #63, #89, #906 and #1251 are high powered flash lamps which need to controlled by a high powered transistor.

Did you check the lugs on the right side visor flasher?

I wouldnt put your new parts in until you know for 100% certainty you have found the short. Or else history will just repeat itself.

GRUMPY If he cant find the short, can he install some kind of a circuit breaker on the line while he troubleshoots?

Yep! I did that today. I went over there and found this beautiful solder job in full contact under the right eye hole. For the picture I spread it out, but basically there are just mounds of solder on the two lugs and they were stacked on top of one another.

I cleaned up the solder and rerouted the wires in an attempt to make sure that they wouldn’t easily be drawn together again, but I have to say this whole thing is a mess. There are wires over and under switches, right near moving solenoids and all tied to uncapped solder points. It is a miracle that I haven’t done this before.

I was actually thinking of putting an in-line fuse on that red line, assuming that is the one that ultimately routes to the power supply. It is a rats nest of different colored jumpers so I need to figure that out.

Also interesting, GRUMPY mentioned I should do Q5 as well. When I desoldered it I noticed that it was clearly replaced before. I bet this isn’t the first time that this has happened.

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Shorts on circuits with lamps are hard to test with a DMM because the lamps when cold act as if they are wire with zero resistance. For testing he can remove J-12 from the CPU board and connect pin 2 to a fuse and then to ground by using a Z connector and a couple of jumper wires. Since there are 3 #1251 bulbs you would need a 3/4 slow blow fuse or circuit breaker minimum. Power on the game and all 3 bulbs should light, and the fuse shouldn't burn if the short is fixed.

This can be tested like this with out the CPU board installed untill it's fixed.

There is a fuse on the power supply for the red wire F-2. You may want to see if it is correct 2.5 amp slow blow.

You could add a fuse to the left and right visor lamps, 1 amp each. I use these crimp on fuse holders.

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Oh neat! I’ll check it out ASAP.

I've always relied on the 100W bulb with alligator clips, in place of a fuse. If there's a short it will light up the bulb instead of popping fuses and components. Easy, inexpensive, and you can easily see the bulb glowing even from your peripheral vision as you shake/poke harnesses and components while hunting the short. In this example you can see it's clipped in place of the solenoid fuse holder on the power supply (level 7 design.)

Richard
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You could solder the wires to a burnt fuse, then it would pop right in.

Totally. I did this with a 44 bulb and it helped me solve a GI short on my TZ.