(Topic ID: 70838)

Pinbot Fans and Owners Club!

By wayout440

10 years ago


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  • 462 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 hours ago by RCA1
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There are 6,055 posts in this topic. You are on page 58 of 122.
#2851 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I was thinking more along the lines of mpu connectors. Not sure if I should test anything before fully hooking up and turning on the mpu.

You can disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19. Turn on power and carefully connect each connector one at a time while listening for a coil locking on. Then disconnect 1J-19 again and start a game and reconnect it again while listening for a special solenoid locking.

#2852 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

You can disconnect 1J-11, 1J-12 and 1J-19. Turn on power and carefully connect each connector one at a time while listening for a coil locking on. Then disconnect 1J-19 again and start a game and reconnect it again while listening for a special solenoid locking.

Sounds like a plan. Thanks. Been almost a month waiting on a chip from China.

#2853 5 years ago

I'm having issues with my eye eject solenoids not resetting after they fire. Is that a spring issue or a solenoid issue?

#2854 5 years ago

Are they locked on now?

#2855 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Are they locked on now?

They reset after a bit, but if I lock in, especially the left eye, it doesn't reset right away, and sometimes not at all. It fires perfectly, it just won't recoil once it's fired.

#2856 5 years ago

PapaRyan -

Did you replace the sleeve inside of the coil and clean the plunger? A good cleaning will usually take care of the problem.

#2857 5 years ago

Sounds like it's dirty and probably could use a new coil sleeve. I would take them apart and clean them. If the coil was staying energized you would have other issues.

#2858 5 years ago
Quoted from Billc479:

PapaRyan -
Did you replace the sleeve inside of the coil and clean the plunger? A good cleaning will usually take care of the problem.

I just started working on this machine and it's my first pin. I took the coil off today to give it a look and didn't see any visible issues, but I will give that a go for sure. Thank you.

#2859 5 years ago
Quoted from PapaRyanFresh:

They reset after a bit, but if I lock in, especially the left eye, it doesn't reset right away, and sometimes not at all. It fires perfectly, it just won't recoil once it's fired.

I'd take them apart to clean them. The pivotbpoint could be gummed up so much and binding that it won't reset.

#2860 5 years ago

Papa -
There's lots of good advice and help on this site. I suggest you read the Pinwiki manuals on system 11, and the general cleaning guides. If you have never tinkered with a pinball machine before, you can make things worse by doing something you shouldn't. (That's why there's lots of advice and guidance here - we learned from our mistakes and wanted to share them.)

Get some cheap parts - coil sleeves, 91% or higher alcohol, Q tips, Novus, rags (I use old t shirts - less lint, cheap, watch out for seams and iron on decals), a good light, decent screwdrivers and other tools, etc. There are lots of suppliers out there - we all have our favorites,review the site for opinions.

There's also a lot of parts information on line - Marco and others post the parts book pages so you can have a better idea of what you need.

Report back - we're always curious about how the repairs/fixes are going.

#2861 5 years ago

Everybody that has a broken or missing topper, this is your solution: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-topper-group-buy/page/5#post-4638896

#2862 5 years ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Papa -
There's lots of good advice and help on this site. I suggest you read the Pinwiki manuals on system 11, and the general cleaning guides. If you have never tinkered with a pinball machine before, you can make things worse by doing something you shouldn't. (That's why there's lots of advice and guidance here - we learned from our mistakes and wanted to share them.)
Get some cheap parts - coil sleeves, 91% or higher alcohol, Q tips, Novus, rags (I use old t shirts - less lint, cheap, watch out for seams and iron on decals), a good light, decent screwdrivers and other tools, etc. There are lots of suppliers out there - we all have our favorites,review the site for opinions.
There's also a lot of parts information on line - Marco and others post the parts book pages so you can have a better idea of what you need.
Report back - we're always curious about how the repairs/fixes are going.

Thank you! Luckily I'm not going at this completely blind. I spent 6 years as an Electronics Technician in the Navy and now I work in the robotics field. But, I've learned over the years that just because you know one piece of electronics, does not mean you know them all, so your advice is much appreciated! I will definitely do my homework before tearing apart too much, and I will definitely report back on my findings. My machine works pretty well for the most part, so I definitely don't want to take it out of service.

#2863 5 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

I'd take them apart to clean them. The pivot point could be gummed up so much and binding that it won't reset.

When I get a new (old) machine I try to do one mechanism a night, taking pictures every step of the way. I unscrew the mech. from the playfield, remove the coil and let it hang, then disassemble and clean the mech. Here's a picture of the eyeball eject mech., there are two washers held on by the clips, one thicker than the other, so keep those sorted. The sleeve gets pulled from the coil and both get cleaned and the sleeve replaced if I have a new one. Reassemble and play/test! Doing only one mech. at a time lets me keep the assembly fresh in my mind and they go together again quickly. Go ahead and order a sleeve replacement set, it's cheap.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CS1543

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#2864 5 years ago
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#2865 5 years ago

PapaRyanFresh bookmark this page, it is great reference for system 11 games.

https://hansbalk.home.xs4all.nl/rep/sys11/index.html

I am a novice with the electronics side of pinball but it's helped me a lot. With your background, you will probably get a lot more out of it than I did.

#2866 5 years ago

PapaRyanFresh - Good advice above, but also, vitally important - GET SOME GOOD WAX and keep your playfield waxed. Don't use the liquid kind in a squeeze bottle, that has too much water and unnecessary silicone in it. Use a nice "100% Carnauba Wax", the high quality stuff at your local auto shop, or order the Blitz wax for way too much per can on Pinball Life. Novus plastic polish is a fine product for cleaning and polishing plastic ramps. Do not use it on your playfield. Use wax.

The very best, most clearly detailed and useful information I have found comes from Pinsider @vid1900. There are a number of threads on here which start with "Vid's Guide To...". You may not need to delve into the one on playfield restoration, but everybody needs to read the Vid's Guide to cleaning and waxing and the Vid's Guide to Rebuilding Flippers just for starters. The guy is a fountain of really specific knowledge, and following his guides to the letter has never led me wrong. Plus it's all really interesting info.

Welcome to the wonderful, obsessive world of pinball! Pinbot was my first machine too, nice choice!

1 week later
#2867 5 years ago

I am getting a U38 pia failure after repairing battery damage. This was not an ic that looked damaged but I swapped it due to the error. It is still giving u38 pia failure. Everything seems to meter out. Is there something that will throw this pia out of spec or something else I can test to trace the problem down? Thanks

#2868 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I am getting a U38 pia failure after repairing battery damage. This was not an ic that looked damaged but I swapped it due to the error. It is still giving u38 pia failure. Everything seems to meter out. Is there something that will throw this pia out of spec or something else I can test to trace the problem down? Thanks

I'd double and triple check all the traces to that chip and also look for solder bridges. I've seen cases where a component was removed that pulled out the through hole plating. Ends up with an open on the top side.

#2869 5 years ago

Ok, seems the trace between pins 23 and 24 that pass through above pin 23 is broken right under that socket. Not sure if I should remove the socket to repair or just jump it.

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#2870 5 years ago

Got it to boot! Knocker is trying to lock on but I kept it unplugged. All my controlled lights are rapid pulsing when they should be lit though. Is this from replacing an src component with just a resistor bank?

#2871 5 years ago

So it seems that more than just a locked knocker. U19 and u20 are reading solid High on pins 1 and 2 but nothing on pin 3 output. Same with the other gates in both the ic's. I am going to swap out those 2 I guess and see if that fixes it. The transistors seem to test good so I guess this is the best place to start? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thanks

#2872 5 years ago
Quoted from chaosrooster:

not sure if they're still available but chaskett made a nice lift ramp decal as well.

Yep! Still have some if anyone is interested send me a PM.

#2873 5 years ago

Is anyone remanufacturing the lift ramp hinge or the complete lift ramp with hinge and screened plastic? Or a rebuild kit for the lift ramp? My hinge is almost shot... it has like 25% of the width left hanging on, but its just a matter of when not if.

#2874 5 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Is anyone remanufacturing the lift ramp hinge or the complete lift ramp with hinge and screened plastic? Or a rebuild kit for the lift ramp? My hinge is almost shot... it has like 25% of the width left hanging on, but its just a matter of when not if.

Freeplay40 makes the complete lift ramp I believe.

#2876 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

So it seems that more than just a locked knocker. U19 and u20 are reading solid High on pins 1 and 2 but nothing on pin 3 output. Same with the other gates in both the ic's. I am going to swap out those 2 I guess and see if that fixes it. The transistors seem to test good so I guess this is the best place to start? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thanks

So I replaced u20 to see if it was those ic's, but it still is acting the same. Both inputs on all the gates for u19 and u20 are steady (High) and the outputs are giving no reading at all. For all the gates to be out of spec over 2 chips seems like a problem upstream. Is there a way to identify the problem or should I start replacing each ic upstream 1 at a time? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks

#2877 5 years ago

Tomass thanks for info, I sent him a PM. On the pia, look for bridges and shorts around the repair areas or common runs... if you have two outputs locking up, look to see if input line traces are physically close to each other and hand trace the runs from source to input looking for shorts... pia troubles are easier to troubleshoot with a scope though. If outputs are locking up downstream of pia, it could be a downstream component input shorted to Vcc feeding back to pia causing issues... look at the outputs of pia and their input to the drivers of the locking up channels... possibly something wrong there and not upstream of pia.

#2878 5 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

tomass thanks for info, I sent him a PM. On the pia, look for bridges and shorts around the repair areas or common runs... if you have two outputs locking up, look to see if input line traces are physically close to each other and hand trace the runs from source to input looking for shorts... pia troubles are easier to troubleshoot with a scope though. If outputs are locking up downstream of pia, it could be a downstream component input shorted to Vcc feeding back to pia causing issues... look at the outputs of pia and their input to the drivers of the locking up channels... possibly something wrong there and not upstream of pia.

Not sure which pia is controlling those 8 solenoids. All 8 pass through u28 but not sure what is directly upstream from there.

#2879 5 years ago

@tomass, you are making me want to go get my schematics... if I knew exactly which box they were in...

#2880 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

All 8 pass through u28 but not sure what is directly upstream from there.

The data bus lines are upstream of U-28. The game roms,CPU and Pia chips are all connected to the data bus lines.

#2881 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The data bus lines are upstream of U-28. The game roms,CPU and Pia chips are all connected to the data bus lines.

So I guess I have bigger issues. I doubt it is all of u28 that is out. Probably a trace somewhere in the mix.

#2882 5 years ago
Quoted from chaskett:

Yep! Still have some if anyone is interested send me a PM.

I can vouch for the 'ADV X' sticker from @chaskett. I literally just installed it and it is WAY better than the original. The letters are the actual decal, not printed on a larger decal. He includes instructions on how to install it as well. Top notch.

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#2884 5 years ago

I may have a line on a visor... PM sent.

#2885 5 years ago

Freeplay40 Makes repo visors. I just ordered one from him and it looks great.

Matt

#2887 5 years ago
Quoted from chaskett:

Yep! Still have some if anyone is interested send me a PM.

PM sent!

#2888 5 years ago

Has anyone had an original Williams NOS Pinbot playfield professionally clear coated? Kruzman takes a pass on system 11 NOS playfields that are not diamondplated, says non DP factory sys 11 pf’s have a primer that outgasses when combined with his clear.

So anyone know a professional clear coater who does non-diamondplate System 11 NOS playfield’s?

#2889 5 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Has anyone had an original Williams NOS Pinbot playfield professionally clear coated? Kruzman takes a pass on system 11 NOS playfields that are not diamondplated, says non DP factory sys 11 pf’s have a primer that outgasses when combined with his clear.
So anyone know a professional clear coater who does non-diamondplate System 11 NOS playfield’s?

I have heard about sys 11 issues too. What I hear is that the issue is around the inserts. I did my own and used an intercoat clear around my inserts. Mine came out very nice but I did 10+ coats and wet sanded to glass-like. I am not sure who does them professionally though. I am also going to clear my pinbot and Cyclone as soon as I have them ready. I'll see how that goes.

#2890 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

I did my own and used an intercoat clear around my inserts.

What is an "intercoat"?
I restored my F-14 with no issues, but I also replaced all the inserts (I used whatever 2PAC they sell at my local NAPA). I have a used PinBot playfield in better shape than the one in my game now and am planning to clear it, just haven't had time to get into the project yet. There is nothing on @vid1900's guide to playfield restoration that warns off of clearing sys11 games; I can't imagine what "primer" (or much else) would be outgassing after 30+ years. Possibly the varnish topcoat could react with the clear; personally, I won't do a playfield restoration without first removing the old topcoat with magic eraser and alcohol.

#2891 5 years ago

I’m just passing the info on... kruzman says its a reaction between the clear and the primer that outgases, not the primer outgasing by itself, just to be clear (coated)

#2892 5 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

What is an "intercoat"?
I restored my F-14 with no issues, but I also replaced all the inserts (I used whatever 2PAC they sell at my local NAPA). I have a used PinBot playfield in better shape than the one in my game now and am planning to clear it, just haven't had time to get into the project yet. There is nothing on vid1900's guide to playfield restoration that warns off of clearing sys11 games; I can't imagine what "primer" (or much else) would be outgassing after 30+ years. Possibly the varnish topcoat could react with the clear; personally, I won't do a playfield restoration without first removing the old topcoat with magic eraser and alcohol.

Clearcoat not meant as a top coat, but a protective coat. Usually between layers of work that you want to protect before doing additional work.

#2893 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Clearcoat not meant as a top coat, but a protective coat. Usually between layers of work that you want to protect before doing additional work.

Well, shoot, anybody *not* doing that needs to go back and read the directions.
- First coat to lock down existing paint (any replacement inserts go in before first coat).
- Second coat after paint repairs
- Third coat after any waterslide decals

@bublehead, if you haven't read Vid's Guide to playfield restoration, it's really comprehensive, check it out. He doesn't mention anything about inherent trouble with clearing sys11 play fields, but it would be interesting to hear what he had to say on the matter.

#2894 5 years ago

Many have clearcoated Pinbot without issues. How long after CC are they suppose to appear, those issues?

#2895 5 years ago

Kruzman said it can happen and continue for up to 10 months after CC, it has to do with the chemical interaction between his CC and the primer williams used only on pre-diamondplate system 11 playfields. . He has had a bad experience and incured some losses doing system 11’s so he passes on doing them. Ymmv.

I’m not looking to physically CC this myself, or I might watch vids guide. I was looking for a professional clear coater who will do as good a job as kruzman, since he passed on doing my Pinbot NOS... which isnt really NOS, but a second from the original pf runs. It has a registration error in the upper right corner under the spiral ramp and plastics, totally hidden once installed. It is un-pricked, and I think it is undrilled as well. It is 32 years old. If it was a child, it should have been giving me grandbabies by now. Instead, I’ve kept it in the dark, in a bubblewrap condom for some 27 years. This isnt a necessity, my Pinbot has day 1 factory installed mylar that isnt blistering up, just the standard small ones above the inserts and none that carny the ball real bad at all.

But some day I might do the swap just as something to do, as a project with my nephew, probably right before I give the machine to him. Sure wish I had an uncle who gave me a pinball machine.

#2896 5 years ago

Funcle

#2897 5 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I was looking for a professional clear coater who will do as good a job as kruzman, since he passed on doing my Pinbot NOS...

I do playfield restorations but take my play fields up to the local cabinet shop that I do work for. They have not just a proper spray booth but also a full time finisher who totally gets it and doesn't need me to give him more than cursory guidelines. He's filled cupped inserts for me, knows how to spray over waterslide decals without destroying them, etc. I'm not necessarily suggesting you ship your playfield to western MA, but if there is a woodworking/cabinetry/furniture shop in your area, that would be a good place to ask. They do way more sophisticated stuff than playfield clearing on a daily basis; my guy works for $25 an hour, totally worth it.
A reputable auto body shop would be another good place to ask, those guys spray clear all the time.

BUT: if there is an issue clearing those play fields, I would remove the topcoat first. It's no fun but it seems to me like the smart way to go. (plus old topcoat yellows over time so you may be able to restore some of the "pop" to the art by removing it as well.)

#2898 5 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Well, shoot, anybody *not* doing that needs to go back and read the directions.
- First coat to lock down existing paint (any replacement inserts go in before first coat).
- Second coat after paint repairs
- Third coat after any waterslide decals
@bublehead, if you haven't read Vid's Guide to playfield restoration, it's really comprehensive, check it out. He doesn't mention anything about inherent trouble with clearing sys11 play fields, but it would be interesting to hear what he had to say on the matter.

Well, I am talking about a product made for an intercoat. I do not use 2pak as an intercoat since that is when these issues can occur according to what I have read.

#2900 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Well, I am talking about a product made for an intercoat.

Interesting, first I've heard about this. Will look into it for sure, thanks for the link!

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