Quick question. Did somebody happen to make a clear decal for freeplays two tone ramp? I cant even seem to find a normal one. Can anybody point me to somebody that can make me one or something?

Yep he replaced the fuses with new ones too. Used contact cleaner on the fuse holders and everything. I am pretty new to the electronics part of the stuff but the old man is pretty good at as he calls it “starting at the wall and moving through the machine”.
He also says everyone is a beginner at this stuff because you’re always learning something new.
He got the lights working, something about a flasher relay board not working. It’s on the backbox door. Thanks for the advice GRUMPY fuses are always the first place to start and most pinball problems usually do start with fuses!
BTW not a big fan of LEDs but I watched an old TNT amusements video on Pinbot and I did a set of red and blue ones in the backglass. All I can say is wow does it look awesome!!!

This Pin Bot is about to rise from the ashes! Anyone here have a populated playfield they could part with?

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Update: So Pinbot is working now. One of the problems was no continuity between the ball tilt switch and a blue switch. This caused trough switch 2 not to read. A tech and I looked it over. Now this is odd: when I start the game, drop targets act fine. But when I start another game, the drop targets continue to reset without going all the way up. Could this be a coil issue now or something else?

Start with the simple stuff first. I've seen some seriously hacked drop target assemblies including one with a raggedy homemade reset plate... I've also seen plungers and coil sleeves lubricated, which is a big no-no. Be sure the coil sleeve is in good condition and clean, coil isn't melted internally from locking on, that the plunger moves freely by hand. Look for lube on the drop target slides; IIRC there is an "official" Williams drop target lubricant, but it's possible it has gummed up over the years, or someone has applied an incorrect lubricant. I'd also wonder if maybe springs had broken and been replaced with some that are a little too strong.

Richard

Thank you Richard. I will look into these things and update you guys.

If Q33 tests good, test the predriver Q29, and if it tests good, then you will need to test the chip at U20.

Pic included for schematic reference.

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Its the ground that is controlled. Power is there and the transistor allows it to find ground. You need to test q29 in diode test just like q33. You can test the u20 with a logic probe but disconnect the connector first.

You could leave the connector off that connects to the solenoids and then with a logic probe check the inputs and outputs of that IC. Logic probes are pretty inexpensive and it a pretty useful tool. Shows if a signal is high/low/pulsing or none.

No offense but GRUMPY was systematically walking you through diagnosing the issue and kinda went rogue. Just slow down and do what he is suggesting and then report back the findings and wait. It is more likely that u20 or q29 is faulty than a wire from what I have seen and read in your explanation.

Aniraf -

You're reading them in circuit, which often times will read differently than the component itself out of circuit. If I run into stuff like this and there are several circuits of the same configuration, I will compare my readings to the other circuits of the same type. There are times when the only way to truly test a component is to pull it out of the circuit. For me, if I end up doing that, I just replace it if I have one available. If it's an IC, I install a socket first.

I’d like to put in my two cents here. It might be worth noting that I have come across a few Tip122’s that tested good but once under load locked on. They are incredibly easy to replace and cheap as chips (with dip). I’d suggest going back to Q33, pulling that sucker like a rotten tooth and replacing it… see if it works. If not, at least you know that it’s got a new transistor and won’t fail, especially since it may have been cooked by your locked coil in the past.

JCO25

I agree with Richard, check the little stuff. One thing I would add is if you have had it apart a few times, the motor bearing sleeve may have come off, got stuck in the slot next to the shaft or is sticky with old greasy stuff.

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Oh yeah I can relate! Many many burns!!! Ask me about the junk Yard that almost ended up in the junkyard!!!

I know this is also kind of a duh idea but did you test the new coil to see if it’s a dud from the factory? It hasn’t happened to me yet (knock on wood) but a person at a reputable online parts retailer told me they recently have been seeing quite a few new shorted ones coming in from their supplier.

I would have pulled the U20, chucked it over my shoulder and replaced it as well but I have no sense of when to stop pulling junk off a board sometimes!!!

I'm not sure how long you left the coil locked on when you burned your finger. But I would not trust the new transistor if the coil was locked for more than just a second or two.

Pull out the logic probe and start testing the chip U20. Pinwiki has a pretty simple walk through guide for doing this process IIRC.

Does anyone have a coil sleeve type and count for the whole game? I found some kit deals (e.g. Marco's) but it doesn't list the counts of each, and I think it would be cheaper if I bought individually.

Thank you guys very much. I looked over the coil sleeve for that and the drop targets too. When I turned the game on, it said adjust switch 40, the raising and lowering of the ramp. Spring looks good, coil sleeves ok. Thank you someotherguy and thetylander for your help! I will update if anything odd happens.

You can get all sorts of odd readings in circuit. Many times you can tell if they are probably ok in circuit. Other times you need to unsolder one lead to isolate it to be sure.

There should be a 5v and a gnd test lug to the left of the battery holder. I will go get you a pic here in a min. Do you know how to test the chip or would you like a pointer or 2? Don't want to assume you don't know how but I would be happy to help if you want it.

This is the pic from pinwiki

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You can see the lugs here

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So open the coin door and go into second test mode and leave it on the bad coil. Then see if pin 1 pulses (input signal). If so, see if pin 3 also pulses (the output). If that is pulsing you can see if the signal makes its way to the transistors.

Its been a while, but I think you press one of the buttons to stop the test mode on a specific coil and it will repeatedly fire that coil.

Yeah! It’s Super easy! Barely an inconvenience!!!
1.Turn on Pinbot.
2. Lock center test button into the down position.
3. Push the inner button (closest to coin door) down once to enter test menu which will say music off.
4. Click center button back to the up position.
Push I nner button until menu reaches solenoid test.
5. Let the test begin. When it starts to cycle through the coils, push the center button to lock it back into down position. The test will stop automatically cycling through the coils.
6. Then push inner button to manually cycle through coils until you reach the one you want to repeatedly fire.

To stop the test click the center button to the up position and push down the inner button until it speeds through the menu to an unlit display. Let go and Pinbot restarts.

Just a thought Q33 also controls the knocker…. Did you check the knocker and it’s wiring?

So, an update and final stages of our Pinbot.. And some random thoughts.
The wifebot did much of the work on our machine because she had insisted upon doing it. I had the pleasure of both ordering the game specific parts she needed and paying for them (YAY!)
The lighting issue we had was caused by a relay snubber circuit board (part #C-11232-1) on the backlight board. This makes the backbox GI lights flash in game and during attract mode. Keep this in mind if your lights ever go out, there’s one under the playfield too.

The wifebot is excellent at fixing broken EM machines, and is a wizard when it comes to art and playfield repairs, as well as physical mechanical aspects, This was her first solid state repair and I am pretty impressed.

Side note:
dq13 regarding Marco coil sleeve kits: Yes, you could buy in bulk and save a little bit, but they are charging a decent price for the convenience of getting everything you need in a single kit. Just like their rubber ring and LED bulb kits they sell. If you have only one machine that needs sleeves the kit would be the way to go.

Which leads into my random thought:
(Apologies ahead of time)
This is kind of an FYI to anyone out there (Newbs) considering doing a Pinbot and wondering what the costs might be.
If you buy a wreck, expect to spend much more. Ours was mostly up and running, weak, but still trying to be a Pinbot and not a oddly leaning coffee table.
There were a few electronic issues and the machine mostly needed to be shopped. There were some playfield plastic issues, target bank motor and bracket issues, hackage by people who didn’t know how to fix pinball machines, the badly water damaged front of the cabinet from past drink spillage, and minor lighting problems.
The front cabinet damage was woodwork, cleaning and paint, which cost very little.
It took $470, including an extra $100 for new playfield glass. This doesn’t include using some of the many universal parts we had on hand.
Your results may vary, but expect to spend $500 to $1,000+ on any machine that you consider buying that “needs work”.
We paid “fully shopped and working” price for our “needs work” Pinbot machine with no regrets. There was too much potential left in it and, as I said before, the playfield and backglass were nearly perfect and all the expensive or unobtainable parts were there.

The true deciding factor in buying this particular Pinbot was that this machine was starting to get hacked up by a string of owners with no skill or knowledge of how pinball works. It had been given up on and put up for sale.
If we hadn’t bought it, I imagine it would have been sold on to the next amateur newb who “Has to jump in on the pinball craze”. Then probably would be cut and hacked at some more until they gave up, then given up on and sold again and hacked up even more by the next owner and so on until nothing was left to save.

A lot of people are jumping in blind into pinball; collecting anything and not caring about what the game is, not understanding the costs involved or the basic skills they need to learn to do the work. Soldering is required, for example. Knowing the difference between 6.5v DC and 6.5v AC is critical!!!! They are coming to pinside for help and we should help them any way we can.

The forum always seems to have been to talk about Pinbot, ask questions, learn how to do stuff, ramble aimlessly, troubleshoot issues, show off what you did, inform and entertain while we all show our love and appreciation of one of the greatest pinball machines in history.
I hope that never changes!

For your next upgrade checkout the new PEMBOT code. It is an awesome upgrade to the machine.

Update: I think this is a CPU thing. The drop targets near the ramp of Pinbot: Once you complete a cycle, they continually go up and down without resetting properly. I tested them last night and when I turned on the game (first 2-3 times) drop targets were acting fine. Second time I turn game on, the drop targets continually go up and down. Is this a CPU thing?

This is more of a system 11 question in general, but in my fully functioning pinbot, very rarely I have an issue where, after a session of several long games where the machine has been played hard and on for well over an hour, the drop target reset solenoid suddenly loses almost all of its power and can't push the targets up all the way, and the machine keeps pulsing the solenoid every 2 seconds trying to reset the bank without success. I've actually had this happen on my Taxi as well with the Lola target bank. Doesn't happen often, maybe once every 75-100 games on both machines. Any ideas?

No, it's more likely to be a mechanical issue. The pulse from the CPU is going to be the same. If your line voltage/solenoid voltage is low it could be electrical. If the targets are gummed up they won't reset properly.

Since they never make it all the way up, they fall again, triggering the switches, causing it to try and reset it again. Repeat.

If the knocker locked on and you didn't know, the coil literally gets hot enough to melt the sleeve inside and the plastic bubbles out looking like gorilla glue.

This situation is very common, and also will fry your transistor, and fry a new one if you didn't realize it was still locked.

Ask me how I know... lol. F14 Knocker coil did exactly this. I have a picture somewhere.

Picked up my 2nd pinbot yesterday. This one much nicer than the one I had 10 plus years ago.
Redone cab.
CPR back glass.
Very nice original playfield.
New, rottondog boards.
PinbLl pro upgraded sound package. And came with an nos blue ramp.

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Very nice Pinbot! Mine has a black spiral ramp similar to yours, I guess there was a time the red spiral ramps were impossible to find.

The microswitches have a tendency to miss their mark on occasion as the motor spins, especially as they get older.
For example, just try to use the 8 way micro switch joystick on any Neo Geo MVS cabinet that was loaded up with a king of fighters game for a few years!
“Down!! Down!!! Finally! Dammit! Now left!! Move left!! Don’t stop you fool!!! Argh!!!”
You can adjust the switch blades to shorten the travel distance but the internals of the switch are what is breaking down.
This is probably why they decided to start using opto sensors on the WPC system motors like the Doctor Who pinball.
New microswitches work instantly, but will eventually get worn. Our Pinbot was moving the target bank up and down five or six times at boot up. It now cycles maybe three times at the most with new switches.
After a long play session (with many multiballs) the motor gets hot. Again, old motor, old gears, and very old grease inside. We replaced our motor because it worked, but it made the occasional grinding noise after a few hours of attract more and gameplay.
Inside the the old motor gearbox, the original grease was dried up clumps and the gear shaft would not freely spin in the housing without minor force. It could have been cleaned and rebuilt but the Wifebot insisted I spend $70 on a new one and rebuild the old one as a backup.
This is mainly because our Doctor Who had a similar motor problem. The previous owner had the gearbox “professionally rebuilt” by an allegedly reputable shop in Minneapolis Minnesota. I found out that the repair was done without cleaning out and replacing the old dried up grease and dropping a glob of solder on a broken gear shaft to stop it freespinning!!!
I can’t stress how important it is to check the physisical parts before jumping into the backbox. Our Popeye machine had a bunch of incredibly bad solder work done to the boards by the previous owner in a vain attempt to try to fix the Bluto trough “not always working”. The solution I found? You guessed it! Replace three microswitches!

Nice catch!!! Hope you got the light bar topper end cap with it.
Also, yellow flipper buttons? hmmm…

I love a forum where it’s okay to talk about hot knockers!!!
Yeah I totally agree with you, this is a shot coil that probably did some extensive damage considering that Pinbot will, by default, alert an operator to a system fault by repeatedly firing the knocker.
Crack! Crack! Crack! Crack!
It may have done this 100 million times before the guy renting shoes at the bowling alley figured out it was the Pinbot making the noise and not some kids lobbing bowling balls at the far end before finally unplugging the thing!

thetylander Will look into that too. Thanks!

Dear Pinbot owners,
Finally I got the L5 solar value reset mod. Replaced and working fine, but have one question;
The starting value is 500.000, and the minimum advance is 250.000, even if I set it to 25.000. Is it a known error or am I miss something somewhere? Also, the starting value is too much, and unable to change it (cannot find a setting for it).