(Topic ID: 303122)

Pinbot doesn’t work

By Vin-bot

6 months ago


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  • 25 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Vin-bot
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 6 months ago

Hi,

My Pinbot broke down a while ago after a period of giving warning signs on the displays and later backing it up by “pop” sounds every time the machine was turned on.

I never found out what that warning was that was shown on the display.. as we were on our honeymoon and my father in law was always playing on it while we were away. He never told me anything about these signs until the machine wouldn’t start anymore.

I fixed up my Pinbot (did a playfield swap and fixed the cab). Replaced the GI wire, all of the GI sockets and replaced all bulbs for LED except for the #1251 bulbs. I made no other changes to any of the electrical systems.

When I turn it on it does the following:

The machine makes 1x a “pong” sound
The back box GI lights are on and only the GI lights on the left side of the playfield are on.
The top 2 displays repeatedly show a gibberish text that blinks 10x. The CPU board repeatedly shows a 7 and then a 8, both blinking 10x. There is a light “humming” noise coming from both the cab speaker and the left hand side speaker in the head box.

What I checked:
- all bulb sockets with a battery before putting the pf back into the machine.
- all connections and plugs, making sure they are clean and properly pushed back together.
- checked the ground bead, making sure it makes contact on the parts it’s connected with.
- made sure the processors/roms are properly attached to the CPU.
- Checked all fuses with a Ohms meter
- Replaced the batteries in the holder. The old ones did not leak/corrode

I have no idea what could be wrong..
Hopefully someone here has an idea

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#2 6 months ago

So it was working before you did the playfield?

rd

#3 6 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

So it was working before you did the playfield?
rd

Yep.. all was working fine. Then the warning messages (that I missed, because I wasn’t home) came and then it just didn’t work afterwards

#4 6 months ago

I would guess that something you’ve done is shorting out the switch circuit, and screwing with the CPU board.

I would pull the GI connector off the power supply, and see if it boots up with no GI running.

If no difference, pull the controlled lighting plugs and see if it boots up with no lights at all.

rd

#5 6 months ago

With the GI power out, everything seems to come alive.

The flippers do go stiff in upright position before the game pops the ball out. Also the drop targets are stiff too. Flipper buttons don’t work. Bottom displays work now, but the top ones still show jibbrrish

#6 6 months ago

Ok, your earth braid is likely touching something it shouldn’t be.

I had one recently - Mystic - one strand of earth braid was touching a T-nut - the volts were going up the bolt, then going across the spinner, and down the spinner lever and into the switch. Took a while to find that one - because when the lever wasn't touching the spinner, the problem stopped!

If you unplug your switch plugs, you might notice the problems go away too.

Look at every switch carefully, and see where the problem is. Keep the braid away from all metal brackets too.

PS - there’s a lot to be said for rewiring the lights and doing away with the braid when doing a playfield swap (HEP style). I generally do this - but the above Mystic machine was so tidy underneath (lamp sockets were all good) that I moved everything across, braid and all. Would have been quicker to rewire them point to point in the end.

rd

#7 6 months ago

Thanks, rotordave.

I’ll go over it and let u know.

2 weeks later
#8 6 months ago

Sorry for the late response, I have been flat out with other stuff and had almost no time to work on my Pinbot

This is what I’ve done after rotordave’s last reply:

I checked the GI wire and the ground braid if it touches anything it shouldn’t and found one suspicious soldering spot and I fixed it.
I also replaced the ribbon cables (since it was a quick and easy thing to do). The result: the gibberish text on the displays is gone and the displays work fine now.

The stiff flippers and drop targets are working fine now too. I previously screwed them on too tight and after loosening the screws they work fine now.
The CPU board is also showing 0 now, so no more flashing 7 and 8. Based on this, I recon the initial issue that caused the machine to stop working was probably caused by the batteries running flat. I actually still had those batteries laying around and I checked them. They had no juice left in them.

So my best guess now is that in the PF swap I must have made a wiring mistake.
Remaining issues:
- The GI on the right side is still not working. I replaced the (5A SB) fuses in the GI fuse holder and on restart the second fuse (2nd from the top down) immediately burned. I did notice in that split second that all the GI on the right-hand side did initially turn on.
- The pop bumpers and kickers don’t work.
- There is still a slight humming noise coming from all the speakers. Might be normal as is vaguely remember a noise like that, back when the machine was working fine, but not to sure (as it’s been a long time since I played this machine).

Attached is a sketch of my GI wiring of the right side of the playfield. Can someone please confirm if this is correct? As you can see the dotted red line shows the location of where the middle pop bumper was wired to the GI before the PF swap. Reason why I connected it to its current location is because when I did the GI wiring, the middle pop bumper light would not work. I checked all of the globes/sockets with a 9V battery as I did the wiring. All other lights did work except for this one. When I made the change all of the lights turned on.
IMG_4307-01 (resized).jpgwiring dia markup (resized).jpg

#9 6 months ago

Anyone, please?

#10 5 months ago

If the GI fuse pops then you’ve still got a short.

Maybe around the pop bumpers. Make sure that the braid isn’t touching any metal. You always want to cover that braid with heatshrink.

Double check each GI bulb holder to make sure the leads aren’t touching the metal body.

Sort that out first. Don’t do anything else until that’s fixed.

If you can’t find it, last resort rip off all the braid and point to point wire every bulb. That’ll sort it.

rd

#11 5 months ago

Thanks…

#12 5 months ago

Thanks rotordave . Problems are partially solved. Found a bit of solder that acted as a bridge between the GI and the socket body.

Also found that I got the top left 2 wire bundles as shown on my sketch soldered the wrong way around. So I swapped them over.

The GI lights all go on now and no blown fuses.

Remaining issues:

- The GI bulbs of all of the 3 pop bumpers don’t work.

- Both kickers and pop bumpers don’t work

- The 4 switches on the playfield side of the kickers don’t work

Getting closer now to a fully working machine.. almost there..

#13 5 months ago

Did you re-use the original pop bumper lamp holders?

If so, probably needs a light sand down to allow Volts to flow into the bulbs. Of course check with a meter first to make sure your wiring is correct. Should be 6v AC at each socket.

If the bulbs are loose in the holders, you can tighten the sides with some pliers. And adjust the base up a little. Power off of course.

Also, you can add a little solder to the tip of the bulb to make it a little longer, so it makes better contact.

Your pops and kickers come from the Special Solenoid section on the top right of the CPU board. Check all the wiring there. And associated fuses.

Quite possible you might have shorter some of the board with your dodgy GI work.

rd

#14 5 months ago

Regarding the not working kickers and pop bumpers:

I checked the wires, checked the connectors, the powerboard and CPU board.. it all looks good to me.

I did check (again). if the fuses are ok. I noticed that the third fuse on the powerboard is a 3 amp ADL fuse. I replaced it with a 2.5mdl fuse and when I powered up the machine it was fine, but once I went to the test menu.. the fuse blowed.

It’s weird to me as the sticker on the cabinet shows it’s a 2.5amp fuse. The 3amp fuse works and was already in the machine when I bought it.

I added photos. Is there anything you can see wrong?

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#15 5 months ago

It worked before - it doesn’t work now - it’s blowing fuses - your wiring is wrong on the playfield again and you have another short.

Also - could be the photo but looks like you have some acid damage to the board. Look at U44. Hey - that could work fine for years, just keep an eye on it.

That won’t blow the fuse - you have another short to find.

It’s on the pops or slings. Whatever those 6 transistors power. The short is on one of those items.

rd

#16 5 months ago
Quoted from Vin-bot:

I replaced it with a 2.5mdl fuse and when I powered up the machine it was fine, but once I went to the test menu.. the fuse blowed.

<disclaimer>

The following is pure speculation on the single statement quoted above.

</disclaimer>

This points to the special solenoid (playfield) trigger switches. These are connected at 1J18. Disconnect this connector and try again. If the fuse blows with 1J18 disconnected then you have a board problem in the special solenoid trigger circuits. If the fuse does NOT blow with 1J18 disconnected you have a stuck special solenoid trigger switch.

When you enter test, one (or more) solenoid should lock on (you can hear this) and then with the sustained current the fuse will blow. If you do not hear a solenoid lock on then it is possible that the affected solenoid is shorted (presumably melted) and does not generate a magnetic field.

Quoted from rotordave:

Also - could be the photo but looks like you have some acid damage to the board. Look at U44. Hey - that could work fine for years, just keep an eye on it.

Some? I think that looks fairly extensive to me. I shudder to think what it looks like to the left of the image if that is what is visible at U44 and surrounding areas.

Totally unrelated to any quoted text above ... that board came from a Road Kings. It is System 11 (nothing) and compatible with Pinbot but one segment of the diagnostic digit display will blink as the diagnostic LED would ordinarily blink.

#17 5 months ago
Quoted from Vin-bot:

Regarding the not working kickers and pop bumpers:
I checked the wires, checked the connectors, the powerboard and CPU board.. it all looks good to me.
I did check (again). if the fuses are ok. I noticed that the third fuse on the powerboard is a 3 amp ADL fuse. I replaced it with a 2.5mdl fuse and when I powered up the machine it was fine, but once I went to the test menu.. the fuse blowed.
It’s weird to me as the sticker on the cabinet shows it’s a 2.5amp fuse. The 3amp fuse works and was already in the machine when I bought it.
I added photos. Is there anything you can see wrong?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

The MPU has extensive battery damage. I would get that cleaned up while its still (mostly) working.

#18 5 months ago

This is what the rest of the board looks like.
What do you guys think?

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#19 5 months ago

In my opinion that board has major alkaline damage that has not been abated. The damage fans out from the batterie holder all the way to the game ROMs. Its down into the solenoids and lamp matrix as well as PIA at U51 and U54. Looks like someone fixed a lot of stuff to get that running and did not neutralize all the alkaline damage on the board first.

#20 5 months ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

In my opinion that board has major alkaline damage that has not been abated. The damage fans out from the batterie holder all the way to the game ROMs. Its down into the solenoids and lamp matrix as well as PIA at U51 and U54. Looks like someone fixed a lot of stuff to get that running and did not neutralize all the alkaline damage on the board first.

Agree. Needs a tidy up or it’s going to cause trouble down the track.

Get your machine issues fixed, then send it off.

Do you know Ken Shipley up in Newcastle area? He can do it.

rd

#21 5 months ago

Guess the good news is that the board is fixable/salvageable if given the proper care.

I don’t know Ken Shipley.. would like to get his contact details.. plz.

It would actually be even better if there is someone in Victoria that fixes boards, so I can drop it off myself. Any suggestions?

Sending it to NSW might be a nightmare with current massive shipping delays by AusPost. As example: I been waiting now for a month on a order from Sydney to arrive.. my wife will not be happy if I don’t get this machine back up and running before Xmas.

#22 5 months ago

IMHO that board is beyond an effective or economical repair. It will probably never work right long term and it will cost a fortune for you to have someone fix it. By the time they take all that stuff off, sand it down or bead blast it. Then put it all back together and tone it out.

#23 5 months ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

IMHO that board is beyond an effective or economical repair.

Holy shit that’s .. scary news.

What do you recon is best to go from here?

Im thinking

A
once I find contact details of someone that fixes boards) send pics and ask for repair estimate. If it’s more than a new board costs then get the replacement instead.

B
Just get a replacement..

is it correct that only rottendog made replacement boards?

I’m looking for a long term solution as I want to keep this machine.

#24 5 months ago
Quoted from Vin-bot:

Holy shit that’s .. scary news.
What do you recon is best to go from here?
Im thinking
A
once I find contact details of someone that fixes boards) send pics and ask for repair estimate. If it’s more than a new board costs then get the replacement instead.
B
Just get a replacement..
is it correct that only rottendog made replacement boards?
I’m looking for a long term solution as I want to keep this machine.

Yes. Please let a more experienced person with this kind of damage give you an appraisal. I have repaired numerous boards with alkaline damage. It’s just almost impossible to get all of it. It gets down into the thru holes and in the VIAs and into all the chip. You fix all you can see but what you don’t see continues to destroy the board. You get it back it works for 6 months a year and then it starts having problems again. If the board has a small amount of alkaline damage I will repair them. But if it has major damage I replace them. It’s not worth the time and headache to me. This is not to say this board is not repairable. There are several guys on here and on Facebook that offer professional repair and could do it. But I have a stack of those boards in my parts bin too that failed later and the client was like just replace it.

I would PM DumbAss he has the boards and support you need.

3 weeks later
#25 5 months ago

UPDATE:

I ordered a new board from DumbAss and it’s due to arrive within a couple of days.

I finally had some time again to work on my machine. I found that one of the leafs on the top pop bumper was broken. I replaced it and solved one of the issues. The lights on top of the pop bumpers work now.

Switch test comes back with just a “visor open” issue. That’s just something I can fix with a minor adjustment (the switch is not broken).

Only remaining issue is the pop bumpers and kickers not working.

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