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(Topic ID: 73199)

Pinballz PAPA circuit comments thread


By DarthXaos

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Frankenator
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 6 years ago

    So what did everyone think about the tournament this weekend?

    Pros:

    Ran extremely smoothly, the PAPA tourney software is A++ Handles Queueing, entries lines scoring everything.
    Arcade is wonderful, it's what an arcade is supposed to be like, lots of games to play in between or before/after tourney games
    Plenty of eye candy in the arcade especially later in the evening
    Exciting finals on Sunday

    Cons:

    No camera setup for broadcasting or spectating.
    Didn't get the match play format as originally planned.
    One player did provide a poor example for us on Sunday by punching a lockdown bar on the game next to him after a frustrating ball, which was witnessed by a non tournament spectator who appeared disgusted with what he saw.
    The aforementioned eye candy can be distracting and cause you to play bad on your fun non-tourney games on friday and saturday night. Hot girls shouldn't be allowed in arcades obviously.

    #2 6 years ago

    Re. Eye candy; pictures or it never happened.

    #3 6 years ago
    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    Plenty of eye candy in the arcade especially later in the evening

    You ain't kidding - but man did it make me feel old. Someone asked Sanjay if he had change as they thought he worked there!

    No camera setup for broadcasting or spectating.

    The plan was for PAPA to be onsite do to live broadcasting, but something came up and they couldn't attend. Personally, I think it would have been difficult as the space was very tight and the ceiling was low which might have made the camera angles difficult. Additionally, it was a darker than other tournaments they have broadcasted at in the past, so not sure how good it was look. Heck, Fish Tales was hard to see in person!

    Joe and myself did our best with the "PAPA spreadsheet telegraph service"

    I think overall the tournament went very well. I wish there was a little more information about the entire format, payouts, etc. Also some of the games (Fish Tales) had some of the crappy LED GI that barely lit the playfield (think WOZ type lighting) and there was more than one occasion I lost the ball just because I couldn't see it.

    Other changes:
    - Longer qualifying hours. We could have gone until 1am easily. Although I will admit ending early was nice as I got two great nights of sleep.
    - Earlier start on Sunday.
    - Pingolf changes. Instead of picking typical tournament games, pick games we've never played. Pingolf on Lost In space, Space Jam, etc would have been helluva alot funnier!!
    - More space... somehow. This tournament could have gone alot different with 30 more people in attendance.

    -- Brian

    #4 6 years ago

    I know some of the locals who are pretty good players that don't like the pump and dump format, even for our smaller local tournaments, and pass on it. We're trying to get them interested by having a single entrance fee or having different formats.

    #5 6 years ago
    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    One player did provide a poor example for us on Sunday by punching a lockdown bar on the game next to him after a frustrating ball, which was witnessed by a non tournament spectator who appeared disgusted with what he saw.

    Ow? I have done this on my own machines, and just about broke my knuckles on my right hand...

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from briandols:

    I know some of the locals who are pretty good players that don't like the pump and dump format, even for our smaller local tournaments, and pass on it. We're trying to get them interested by having a single entrance fee or having different formats.

    Yeah, I agree. The pump in dump certainly does turn people off.

    Hopefully someone will attempt a single fee, limited entry tournament

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    Yeah, I agree. The pump in dump certainly does turn people off.
    Hopefully someone will attempt a single fee, limited entry tournament

    There were a few ATX locals that haven't been to TPF or Houston Expo tournaments that put in a few entries and got a taste of what a major tournament is like and I'm of the mindset that cross-pollination is a good thing.

    Other than that, parking was a mess on Friday night. There were a number of birthday parties and other party rentals happening, but there was an overflow area to park at.

    #8 6 years ago

    if u have a one fee tourney, no one but locals will go unless its a big fee (like pinburgh) with lots of players and big payouts.
    pump and dump draws players who travel, to make travel cost worthy...as usually 100% of the pump and dump money is paid out (less expenses).

    even with pump and dump, its nice if an event still has guarantee payouts, and if entree fees meet the guarantees, the payouts can surpass the guarantees.
    I did not go bcuz i had no idea what the payouts would be for any place (1st and beyond) and when you are dealing with flights and hotels amongst other travel expenses, there has to be some time of guarantee for me to even look into it.
    I still find it hard to believe that my annual PIN WARS event, the payouts are larger than most events, that have more players (even shows with tournaments). I did see that pinballz event paid down several spots which was good. I'm also going to adopt that method, but still have high guarantees for at least 1st - 4th for open and classics....as well as B division. Its a gamble but if you build it, they will come!
    It is very hard to please locals, people who travel, good players and novice players as a whole in one event.
    Most of us who have events appreciate the feedback good or bad in order to try our best to please everyone.
    There is tons of work before the show, during the show and after the show...

    #9 6 years ago

    In the case of this event, there were no announced guaranteed payouts partially because it wasn't clear how many people would attend or how much play there would be. For a first-time event or any event, guaranteed payouts are a risk because you're on the hook for them in case something happens... I've been there, and it's not fun to be an organizer in that situation.

    In the end, the total cash payouts were over $6,000 between the main division and the Pingolf side tournament; this includes the $1,000 in PAPA sponsorship money. Every dollar in entry fees was returned to players as prizes, plus a grand.

    A Division
    1st: $1500
    2nd: $900
    3rd: $600
    4th: $400
    5th-8th: $200
    9th-12th: $150
    13th-16th: $100

    B Division
    1st: $250
    2nd: $150
    3rd: $100
    4th: $50
    5th-8th: $25

    #10 6 years ago

    i understand its a risk upfront to have guarantees, but knowing that the 1k from papa will be there and the location is an actual location with 100 pinball machines and more,..and that its a circuit event.. im sure who ever hosted the event could afford a mishap...unless it wasn't the owner hosting.
    With the format used and number of machines used, if other events are studied with similar qualify time, fees and number of machines, , you can generally guess the pot size regardless of number of players. only so many machines can be played at once, so no matter if 1000 players or 60, its gonna be the approx the same pot as machines will be used around the clock and if u use time vs # of machines vs entree fee, and approx ball time...their is a limit.
    as in this years chicago expo- there was a line 20- 30 deep at many times with all games being used, so even it you added 500 more players to the mix, the pot size will still be approx the same as the machines are at their maximum use time and money.

    curious how the numbers at Pinballz are spot on thow? do they round up or down? my events i pay exactly whats in the pot, so the payouts are a bit goofy, but 100% from the pot.
    example:
    1st= $1382
    2nd= $887
    etc

    #11 6 years ago

    I understand your opinion, but I don't think it would be appropriate to put that guarantee on the hook of the location. They'd never want to host a large-scale tournament again.

    If, as you say, you can guess the approximate size of the pot at the end of the event, you shouldn't be concerned that there isn't a guarantee.

    Payouts were rounded off slightly to nice, friendly, round numbahs, with the overall payout rounded up slightly compared to the final total of entries.

    #12 6 years ago

    So I am assuming pics of this isn't happening?

    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    Plenty of eye candy in the arcade especially later in the evening

    #13 6 years ago

    never being to the venue, not knowing who is running the event for setting up the machines and not knowing if 100% of entry fees are paid out made that guess not be possible. that can only be projected by the event directors as they know the variables. Obviously, if games are set up too easy, cash intake will be less. if hours to qualify are less, same scenario. if any of the entry fees went towards expenses, # of machines used, format, .. Seemed like alot of info wasn't easily found or just not available in advance. so could not take that risk.
    still curious why no circuit event in Michigan yet, plenty of proven venues and shows..with lots of pins and rather large payouts + percentages guaranteed. Not to mention plenty of room for players and spectators with more than one restroom as well...lol.

    #14 6 years ago

    Well we might be in luck this year! I thought I heard something about the Michigan Pinball expo being a PAPA event in April. But I could be mistaken. I'm sure someone else can confirm or deny this.

    #15 6 years ago
    Quoted from harmon1728:

    Well we might be in luck this year! I thought I heard something about the Michigan Pinball expo being a PAPA event in April. But I could be mistaken. I'm sure someone else can confirm or deny this.

    I don't think they have thought about 2014-2015 dates, but given that MPE is the weekend after Pinburgh (and circuit finals), I would be surprised if it was the first event.

    #16 6 years ago

    Chiming in late here:

    Broadcasting - we had some technical concerns that limited our broadcasting ability for Austin. They will be worked out by INDISC in January. It should be noted, though, that we won't be broadcasting every Circuit event (just most). Doing all of them just isn't possible right now with our current staff and associated costs. The kickstarter was fantastic and we are very grateful in so many ways, but it doesn't come close to covering all of the costs we will incur over the coming years. Our goal is to guarantee about 7-8 events per Circuit season and then try to increase those numbers each year depending on the specific situations.

    Format - the initial idea was to have a mini-Pinburgh. The location had concerns with this format, and so we made a change late in the game to the traditional Best-Game format. Should we return next year, our hope is still to try the match-play, but that is to be determined.

    Prize Money - Unless I'm mistaken, PAPA did guarantee a minimum $5000 prize pool and was on the hook for it. There may have been a miscommunication here somewhere, but that's the impression I was under. We've done similar things in the past to try and encourage attendance at first-time events. My guess is the details were lost in the last-minute format shuffle.

    Michigan - We already attempted to schedule a Circuit event in Michigan, but things didn't work out with the location due to unforeseen circumstances (no one's fault... just didn't work out). As for next year, the Michigan Pinball Expo will be the second Circuit event of the season on back-to-back weekends with Pinburgh, and our goal is to broadcast both on PAPAtv.

    We will be posting a preliminary Circuit schedule for next season soon.

    Finally, the guys in Austin did a fantastic job. I wish I could have been there myself, but I had some personal issues come up that kept me away. I owe you all big time.

    mhs

    #17 6 years ago

    thx MHS for clearing it all up my friend
    sounds super!
    tty soon

    #18 6 years ago
    Quoted from mhs:

    When we return next year, our hope is still to try the match-play

    ^^^^^^^ Fixed it for you.

    Quoted from mhs:

    Prize Money - Unless I'm mistaken, PAPA did guarantee a minimum $5000 prize pool and was on the hook for it.

    I'm not aware of this ever being communicated either by PAPA or Pinballz. But if it had been communicated effectively and resulted in more interest & people attending, I think it would have overwhelmed the amount of space that Pinballz allocated to the tournament.

    Thanks for what you're doing for PAPAtv and pinball, Mark.

    #19 6 years ago

    Pros:
    Alex and Pinballz techs (with a little help from some of the Bat City Pinball Club) had the pins set up very well -- challenging, yet accessible to get high scores through quality play -- and malfunctions were taken care of quickly. (Props to Dean Grover for helping out to fix the slot machine coil on TZ.)

    Ditto on the tourney software. I had the chance to experience it at PAPA16, and marveled at its effectiveness then, but electronic queuing wasn't being used at PAPA16 -- and it was a great feature that was used at Pinballz. After your game is finished and score taken/voided, the ability to look at the scorekeeper's tablet and see the length of each pin's queue, and have the scorekeeper immediately add you to the queue of your choosing is fantastic. (and of course, you have the option to not join a queue as well)

    Ditto on the venue of having plenty of pins/vids to play when not playing in the tourney.

    Turnout was great. Would have been even more had it not been for the ice storm in DFW.

    Cons:
    A few of the tilts were too loose -- namely Tron and SM.

    Could have used more space to allow tourney participants to sit down while still in the proximity of the tourney area and screens displaying standings and queues.

    Pin-golf took longer than expected, but it was still fun. I also like the idea of using lesser-known pins next time for pin-golf. I think the reason well-known pins were used was because of greater familiarity with pin-golf score targets.

    Ditto on not having the PAPAtv recording or broadcast -- but I understand why.

    Ditto on parking.

    #20 6 years ago

    Still hoping someone makes some good tourney software available for download or purchase. Seems like there's two or three good options out there (Including one I saw on saturday!) but doesn't seem to be available for the masses. Brackelope is pretty good for double/single elim but doesn't have a ton of options as far as qualifying/seeding goes as far as I can tell... you basically have to do all of that manually, or just let it randomly seed people! Dumb!

    #21 6 years ago
    Quoted from mhs:

    Michigan - We already attempted to schedule a Circuit event in Michigan, but things didn't work out with the location due to unforeseen circumstances (no one's fault... just didn't work out). As for next year, the Michigan Pinball Expo will be the second Circuit event of the season on back-to-back weekends with Pinburgh, and our goal is to broadcast both on PAPAtv.

    And I stand corrected. Thanks

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Still hoping someone makes some good tourney software available for download or purchase. Seems like there's two or three good options out there (Including one I saw on saturday!) but doesn't seem to be available for the masses. Brackelope is pretty good for double/single elim but doesn't have a ton of options as far as qualifying/seeding goes as far as I can tell... you basically have to do all of that manually, or just let it randomly seed people! Dumb!

    We're certainly aware of this need and working on it. It's a lengthy process though.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from mhs:

    We're certainly aware of this need and working on it. It's a lengthy process though.

    The BAPA folks have written their own software to do their tourney brackets and it handles placings for every person (no ties for 16th, etc.) but I am not sure if that could be leveraged/licensed. I could put you all in touch with those guys if you like...

    2 weeks later
    #24 6 years ago

    David from Aurcade has programmed fantastic software for arcade tournaments that include pinball competitions. He does a lot of east coast events and was at magfest this last weekend - not sure if he's a pinsider or not. could be a good connection to have from the "I already have an awesome existing program" side of things.

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