Toronto, ON
I'd like to hear more about this "Jared Incident".
(Topic ID: 131339)
Casper, WY
Quoted from Frax:Yes, the contracts for this were effectively selling yourself into slavery for a year. In the OFF CHANCE that the thing went multiple seasons, you might make some bucks...course, they might just kick your ass to the curb and find some other schmuck to sign up for a year with a pipe dream of another season before they're in the money too. The whole idea was that if it took off, the "group" would try and force the hand of the producers, basically say "we're not going along with this contract, it sucks, we want a new one with better pay".
I did the math on it, they basically wanted unlimited access to all aspects of my life and for me to be available to them without any notice at all, did not want to pay my wife for appearing on the show, we didn't want the kids to be on camera, and the producer is such a ditz he couldn't even provide us a valid place to send him the intro video we were requested to record and wasted hours on. Basically, they were asking me to work more than full time, tell my primary job to go screw dogs while I was off shooting ridiculous TV episodes, and all for less pay than I make BEFORE overtime at my current job, which is laughable. Not to mention that I was basically going to be cast as the "dickhead", which no doubt would be AWESOME for future potential jobs, right?
Here's my honest opinion of each of the people involved. I think you'll be able to tell that the producers did not do a fantastic job of taking the strong points of each of these people and making it something immediately interesting to those outside the hobby...
Jared - Going to write the most about Jared, because I frankly have talked to him and been around him more than the other people involved, and that he's far more active on Pinside than anyone else on the list. Regardless of whose "fault" it was, Jared's direct actions and attitudes clashing with "the establishment" early in the hobby that basically destroyed any sense of community we had in Dallas between competition and non-competition players due to the interactions between him and a few other people. The competition players have gotten over the whole damn thing, and we all still hang out and talk and go to league and do things. The non-comp players? It's a miracle if I have seen the vast majority of these people more than twice in the last year. Most of them turned into cave hermits after "The Jared Incident", including the moderators of our local groups. These "casuals" don't hold events, don't plan events, don't bring new people into the hobby, and for all intents and purposes basically DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the community at large anymore. Was -that- good for the hobby? Nope. Could the whole situation have been avoided by two or three people realizing that their actions were fueling this inferno? Yep. Is Jared one of those people? Yep. Jared is a marketing guy, to the BONE. That will never change, and anyone that thinks they can change that behavior at this point is really just a moron on every possible level. He does shit on a ridiculous level, and yeah, it doesn't always go according to plan (truck height.. ) but at least he is doing SOMETHING, which is more than I can say for a lot of people. Love or hate his attitude, it won't really matter in the end. I've gone back and forth on it several times myself. Won't change anything at all what you decide, as he is going to do what he wants to do....which is to frequently be over the top, both in his personal manner and with his events. If you think Jared is much different in person than in his online "persona".....lol....not so much.
Craig - The less I say here the better. We don't get along. At all. He tried to get me in on the show, I was interested enough to shoot the intro footage after talking to him and Marc, it didn't go any further. Craig shows up to league nights, occasionally to other tourney stuff. He's capable of fixing games, doing maintenance and playfield swaps. Will take consignments from "non-hobby" people and fix and sell their games and take a cut. Other than that.... I have him on ignore here and facebook.
Marc - I'm pretty sure for a while Marc was the most evil'est guy in DFW to me, because he bought every damn pin I tried to go after, it seemed like. He offered an honest opinion to me about the show and the proposed contracts after Craig tried to enlist me. Marc buys and sells games, and AFAIK, has a metric SH-TON of projects in storage somewhere that he gradually pulls from, fixes them up, and sells them at TPF and from his company Elevation Games. I'm pretty sure we've come to a mutual understanding that we're both dickheads that don't tend to pull punches, and in my book, I'd rather deal with brutal honesty than a two-faced jack---, so we're all good. The interaction shown between him and Barry is not something that would NOT actually surprise me to see off-camera, but as stated elsewhere, they know each other, and this *is* Texas...
Rusty and Shelley - Seriously, you want to talk about people dedicated to the hobby....you don't even know. They're not real active here, but they are two of the most arcade/pinball dedicated people I have ever known. Their house is a shrine to gaming in a way that pisses me off.....because it's not mine. They are serious socialite/partier type people, which at least in this area is sorely lacking, especially as of the last two years. If you ever get invited to anything they're running, you can pretty much be assured that something awesome is going down and they are 100% invested in the idea of whatever crazy theme it is this time around. Both are incredibly smart. And they are totally bringing the jello shots.
Ed - Frankly, out of this group of people I've probably spent the least amount of time talking to Ed, which is almost ironic considering that he runs TPF, which is just bonkers. I don't know how the hell he finds the time to build a MM, plan and organize the cluster-f that is TPF, buy and sell games, build a Cactus Canyon, and have a full time job and 3 (Is that right?) kids? Good lord. I can barely handle my 2 kids and one league night a week. Not afraid to mince words that I've ever seen, but also is not "in your face" in the way that Jared would be....he knows where his limits are due to his deep association with TPF, and what to keep close to the vest. The show is presenting him as a restorer? Well, okay...yeah, he's done that. He built Medieval from scratch, and like I said, is working on CC. He's more than capable of filling that title in real life.
Steve / FUN! - Fun doesn't have auctions at the store, much less for single machines...what the hell was that? LOL. I've sold a game to FUN, I've never bought a game from them, not directly anyways. I bought a game from TPF, who gets their tourney game NIBs from FUN, so technically my Metallica came from them as the distributor. They have been having some local events for new game launches recently, which has actually attracted a ton of people that don't typically show up for launch party tournaments....to the degree it was actually hard to get a game in. Met a lot of new people last time I was there for one of those. Ultimately, they're a retail business, and they're going to do what they need to do to stay in business. I don't have any beef with what they do as a business, but I share the sentiments with some other posts on this thread....trying to make it look like a non-HEP restored Monster Bash is worth 12k+ at a fake auction that never even happened is just.....ugh....
Quoted from Frax:Yes, the contracts for this were effectively selling yourself into slavery for a year. In the OFF CHANCE that the thing went multiple seasons, you might make some bucks...course, they might just kick your ass to the curb and find some other schmuck to sign up for a year with a pipe dream of another season before they're in the money too. The whole idea was that if it took off, the "group" would try and force the hand of the producers, basically say "we're not going along with this contract, it sucks, we want a new one with better pay".
I did the math on it, they basically wanted unlimited access to all aspects of my life and for me to be available to them without any notice at all, did not want to pay my wife for appearing on the show, we didn't want the kids to be on camera, and the producer is such a ditz he couldn't even provide us a valid place to send him the intro video we were requested to record and wasted hours on. Basically, they were asking me to work more than full time, tell my primary job to go screw dogs while I was off shooting ridiculous TV episodes, and all for less pay than I make BEFORE overtime at my current job, which is laughable. Not to mention that I was basically going to be cast as the "dickhead", which no doubt would be AWESOME for future potential jobs, right?
Here's my honest opinion of each of the people involved. I think you'll be able to tell that the producers did not do a fantastic job of taking the strong points of each of these people and making it something immediately interesting to those outside the hobby...
Jared - Going to write the most about Jared, because I frankly have talked to him and been around him more than the other people involved, and that he's far more active on Pinside than anyone else on the list. Regardless of whose "fault" it was, Jared's direct actions and attitudes clashing with "the establishment" early in the hobby that basically destroyed any sense of community we had in Dallas between competition and non-competition players due to the interactions between him and a few other people. The competition players have gotten over the whole damn thing, and we all still hang out and talk and go to league and do things. The non-comp players? It's a miracle if I have seen the vast majority of these people more than twice in the last year. Most of them turned into cave hermits after "The Jared Incident", including the moderators of our local groups. These "casuals" don't hold events, don't plan events, don't bring new people into the hobby, and for all intents and purposes basically DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the community at large anymore. Was -that- good for the hobby? Nope. Could the whole situation have been avoided by two or three people realizing that their actions were fueling this inferno? Yep. Is Jared one of those people? Yep. Jared is a marketing guy, to the BONE. That will never change, and anyone that thinks they can change that behavior at this point is really just a moron on every possible level. He does shit on a ridiculous level, and yeah, it doesn't always go according to plan (truck height.. ) but at least he is doing SOMETHING, which is more than I can say for a lot of people. Love or hate his attitude, it won't really matter in the end. I've gone back and forth on it several times myself. Won't change anything at all what you decide, as he is going to do what he wants to do....which is to frequently be over the top, both in his personal manner and with his events. If you think Jared is much different in person than in his online "persona".....lol....not so much.
Craig - The less I say here the better. We don't get along. At all. He tried to get me in on the show, I was interested enough to shoot the intro footage after talking to him and Marc, it didn't go any further. Craig shows up to league nights, occasionally to other tourney stuff. He's capable of fixing games, doing maintenance and playfield swaps. Will take consignments from "non-hobby" people and fix and sell their games and take a cut. Other than that.... I have him on ignore here and facebook.
Marc - I'm pretty sure for a while Marc was the most evil'est guy in DFW to me, because he bought every damn pin I tried to go after, it seemed like. He offered an honest opinion to me about the show and the proposed contracts after Craig tried to enlist me. Marc buys and sells games, and AFAIK, has a metric SH-TON of projects in storage somewhere that he gradually pulls from, fixes them up, and sells them at TPF and from his company Elevation Games. I'm pretty sure we've come to a mutual understanding that we're both dickheads that don't tend to pull punches, and in my book, I'd rather deal with brutal honesty than a two-faced jack---, so we're all good. The interaction shown between him and Barry is not something that would NOT actually surprise me to see off-camera, but as stated elsewhere, they know each other, and this *is* Texas...
Rusty and Shelley - Seriously, you want to talk about people dedicated to the hobby....you don't even know. They're not real active here, but they are two of the most arcade/pinball dedicated people I have ever known. Their house is a shrine to gaming in a way that pisses me off.....because it's not mine. They are serious socialite/partier type people, which at least in this area is sorely lacking, especially as of the last two years. If you ever get invited to anything they're running, you can pretty much be assured that something awesome is going down and they are 100% invested in the idea of whatever crazy theme it is this time around. Both are incredibly smart. And they are totally bringing the jello shots.
Ed - Frankly, out of this group of people I've probably spent the least amount of time talking to Ed, which is almost ironic considering that he runs TPF, which is just bonkers. I don't know how the hell he finds the time to build a MM, plan and organize the cluster-f that is TPF, buy and sell games, build a Cactus Canyon, and have a full time job and 3 (Is that right?) kids? Good lord. I can barely handle my 2 kids and one league night a week. Not afraid to mince words that I've ever seen, but also is not "in your face" in the way that Jared would be....he knows where his limits are due to his deep association with TPF, and what to keep close to the vest. The show is presenting him as a restorer? Well, okay...yeah, he's done that. He built Medieval from scratch, and like I said, is working on CC. He's more than capable of filling that title in real life.
Steve / FUN! - Fun doesn't have auctions at the store, much less for single machines...what the hell was that? LOL. I've sold a game to FUN, I've never bought a game from them, not directly anyways. I bought a game from TPF, who gets their tourney game NIBs from FUN, so technically my Metallica came from them as the distributor. They have been having some local events for new game launches recently, which has actually attracted a ton of people that don't typically show up for launch party tournaments....to the degree it was actually hard to get a game in. Met a lot of new people last time I was there for one of those. Ultimately, they're a retail business, and they're going to do what they need to do to stay in business. I don't have any beef with what they do as a business, but I share the sentiments with some other posts on this thread....trying to make it look like a non-HEP restored Monster Bash is worth 12k+ at a fake auction that never even happened is just.....ugh....
so in short, the producer is yet another Hollywood knucklehead that knows nothing about pinball and will exploit people and make them into whatever will sell product to make a quick buck.
jared, why don't you and the rest of the texas folk give Hollywood boy the finger texas style. grab a video camera and make your own show.
you can put it on the web. you could even start your own channel. have you seen roku. anyone can start their own channel. you already know about youtube. just an idea.
Quoted from jwilson:I'd like to hear more about this "Jared Incident".
Really? Because I'd place money that it's far more likely you're just looking for something to troll.
Quoted from mrgone:the producer is yet another Hollywood knucklehead that knows nothing about pinball
I don't know the first damn thing about Damien other than he is completely internet incompetent.
Quoted from Frax:Really? Because I'd place money that it's far more likely you're just looking for something to troll
Just curious what he could have done to upset people so much. I've had other people mention him being banned from the local league for example.
Quoted from jwilson:Just curious what he could have done to upset people so much. I've had other people mention him being banned from the local league for example.
He was never banned from the local *league*. I should know, since my wife and I ran it last year, and have attended 90% of this year. 
We had a set number of spaces available for our league. Jared, along with several others, expressed interest and did not make it to a majority of the events. Jared DID host one of our league nights, which went awesome and was the highest attendance all year (the guy is absolutely hated, I tell you what!) if I'm not mistaken. This year, Xerico is running an open league (which I can't do because of space limitations of my tiny condo!) at a local location, Jared has shown up 2-3 times, but he's also got a new baby, and I didn't even leave my house to associate with the public for like 2 months after my kid was born, so I can't even fathom all the work and attention that a preemie has taken.
He WAS banned from the local facebook page "DFW Pinball and Arcade Club" and their events, which by their very nature now must be non-IFPA tournaments since there's no way to have an IFPA tournament and keep someone out. Go figure that they no longer have any events. You want dirt, you're going to have to go talk to the facebook club mods. They couldn't ever be arsed to post exactly why it was that one person was banned when nobody else ever had been, or has been since. Frankly, I think if you're going to that length you shouldn't be such a coward about saying EXACTLY what was said, verbatim, but hey...what do I know. I'm not a mod...I'm just the guy that spent all last year getting people out of their houses and into pinball tournaments. Clearly, I'm too busy to understand.
Quoted from Frax:He WAS banned from the local facebook page "DFW Pinball and Arcade Club" and their events, which by their very nature now must be non-IFPA tournaments since there's no way to have an IFPA tournament and keep someone out.
Wow. So they'd sooner give up their IFPA sanctioning than have him back? That is some local drama.
Quoted from jwilson:Just curious what he could have done to upset people so much. I've had other people mention him being banned from the local league for example.
This is absolutely incorrect.
There is no local league. The closest thing to a league is our weekly tournaments at Nickelrama on Tuesday nights.
And since I run those Tuesday Night events, Jared is definitely not banned.
Jared is "banned" from the DFW Pinball Club Facebook group. He is not banned from real life events. Just the FB group.
The "incident" was a letter written to an admin of that FB Page that got Jared booted.
Since that letter, written over 2 years ago, Jared has apologized and tried his hardest to make amends to no avail. The admins refuse to un-ban him.
So that is the "incident".
Marcus
Quoted from frolic:Wow. So they'd sooner give up their IFPA sanctioning than have him back? That is some local drama.
They didn't care about tournaments in the first place. As far as I know, since I have been involved in pinball, Marcus, Ken, or myself have run 99.5% of the tournaments. I can't even remember the last time someone other than that hosted a tournament and actually handled the administrative part of actually running the tournament. 
Quoted from Xerico:He is not banned from real life events.
That's news to me, so I guess I stand corrected. They definitely tried to..but I'm not sure how they ever intended to enforce it when the vast majority of events were in public spaces.
Quoted from Frax:That's news to me, so I guess I stand corrected. They definitely tried to..but I'm not sure how they ever intended to enforce it when the vast majority of events were in public spaces.
Yeah. Basically the ban was enforced by simply not inviting Jared. But then they would invite the entire FB membership and the hosts of the event typically did not object to Jared attending, thus killing any ban attempt.
Marcus
Quoted from Xerico:Yeah. Basically the ban was enforced by simply not inviting Jared. But then they would invite the entire FB membership and the hosts of the event typically did not object to Jared attending, thus killing any ban attempt.
Marcus
Thanks for the clarification.
And...
LOL. 
Quoted from Xerico:The "incident" was a letter written to an admin of that FB Page that got Jared booted.
Since that letter, written over 2 years ago, Jared has apologized and tried his hardest to make amends to no avail.
As someone with a "checkered past" myself, I can certainly sympathize with having that hanging over your head while you try to participate in the local collector community.
So much drama even in real life - who needs Reality TV?
SO much stuff is made up. Our original "sizzle reel" that's posted on this thread was almost 4 years ago. Everything that happened was in fact, real. Nothing made up. We filmed as we went. We marketed it professionally in both LA and New York. Many networks looked at it. They wanted more "excitement". We added some boobs and broads, cursing, screaming customers, games getting damaged. Then they wanted more "family" stuff---so we filmed new stuff with my family. Then, they wanted another collectible added, so we filmed stuff about my film collecting. We went through change after change trying to cover all aspects. I actually filmed sequences with Richie Knucklez both being nasty to each other (rival dealers) and then buddy buddy---both at TNT and at his arcade. Alternate takes, scenarios, etc, different dialogue, whatever they wanted-over and over. We found the previews got just so high on the ladder and then were knocked down.
Reality Shows are all bullshit anyway, it seems. You should know I was contacted by Pawn Stars in Vegas 4 months ago. They wanted me to fly out to Vegas with one of my cocktail table Pacman games for them to "value" and make me an "offer" for it. I asked them about expenses. I get NOTHING...I have to fly out, pay hotel, pay for Pacman to get shipped, and then film for 4 hours and get ridiculed with some shitty offer. I asked them why I would possibly consider to do this. The lady says "Because you will be on national TV and be famous". Of course, I cannot mention my company name...ONLY my name. BUT---I WOULD be on National TV on a fictitious made up "reality" show getting insulted! Oh boy, I can stay at home and get insulted without spending all that money!! SO people don't just stumble in that shop with something to sell---its all preplanned months in advance!
But if any of you remember that TNT Amusements WAS on an episode of Food Network's BUBBA Q barbecue show 2 years ago with that ridiculous Pinball Barbecue machine that I "wanted", that was all preplanned and scripted---with alternate takes and an entire day of footage with a different storyline filmed at an auction that was never used. No pay for all those hours of work we did, and virtually no air time. Todd
My ex wife's dad owned many restaraunts/night clubs,etc.
One day Marcia Clark and some other lawyer came in for lunch.
This was soon after the oj trial.
Not 30 minutes after they left the phone started ringing off the hook.
Entertainment tonight, the star,all the other shows and tabloids of the day were calling and asking for the scoop.
Several including e.t. We're throwing money at the dad in law to dish the dirt.
He simply stated to each one,
They seemed nice and they had lunch.
I remember him telling me about it. He just shook his head and called them all sharks.
In a nut shell they are all scum that would rape their own mothers if it got them ratings.
Screw hollywood.
Quoted from toddtuckey:The lady says "Because you will be on national TV and be famous".
Big whup.
I've known enough famous people to be glad I am not one of them.
Quoted from toddtuckey:SO much stuff is made up. Our original "sizzle reel" that's posted on this thread was almost 4 years ago. Everything that happened was in fact, real. Nothing made up. We filmed as we went. We marketed it professionally in both LA and New York. Many networks looked at it. They wanted more "excitement". We added some boobs and broads, cursing, screaming customers, games getting damaged. Then they wanted more "family" stuff---so we filmed new stuff with my family. Then, they wanted another collectible added, so we filmed stuff about my film collecting. We went through change after change trying to cover all aspects. I actually filmed sequences with Richie Knucklez both being nasty to each other (rival dealers) and then buddy buddy---both at TNT and at his arcade. Alternate takes, scenarios, etc, different dialogue, whatever they wanted-over and over. We found the previews got just so high on the ladder and then were knocked down.
Reality Shows are all bullshit anyway, it seems. You should know I was contacted by Pawn Stars in Vegas 4 months ago. They wanted me to fly out to Vegas with one of my cocktail table Pacman games for them to "value" and make me an "offer" for it. I asked them about expenses. I get NOTHING...I have to fly out, pay hotel, pay for Pacman to get shipped, and then film for 4 hours and get ridiculed with some shitty offer. I asked them why I would possibly consider to do this. The lady says "Because you will be on national TV and be famous". Of course, I cannot mention my company name...ONLY my name. BUT---I WOULD be on National TV on a fictitious made up "reality" show getting insulted! Oh boy, I can stay at home and get insulted without spending all that money!! SO people don't just stumble in that shop with something to sell---its all preplanned months in advance!
But if any of you remember that TNT Amusements WAS on an episode of Food Network's BUBBA Q barbecue show 2 years ago with that ridiculous Pinball Barbecue machine that I "wanted", that was all preplanned and scripted---with alternate takes and an entire day of footage with a different storyline filmed at an auction that was never used. No pay for all those hours of work we did, and virtually no air time. Todd
This Dallas "stuff" I think has gone on 4 years if not longer. Between Austin and Dallas. I got a chance to talk to Abby from Dance mom's and the details of her situation is a "horror" story turned reality for the amount of work, time and her own money.
I realize Jared and the folks that want to see this happen all probably have the best intentions.
However, I saw a very similar anticipation from the pinball community prior to the release of the movie "Special When Lit". After I watched it, I had very mixed feelings. The movie's subject matter was no doubt "pinball". However, very few parts of the movie seemed genuine. Most of the movie was presented in a way to make the people most passionate about pinball, appear to be weirdo's and freaks.
I watched the trailer in this thread and all I can say is this.
I see a VERY real chance that this "reality series" or whatever you want to call it, will paint the pinball hobby in a very poor way. It seems to be pitched with both "enemies" and "good guys" drama in the promo. I really do not have any interest in watching that staged kind of BS that "King of Kong" was built up on...
I realize that this does not mean that it will be presented that way. However, from watching the promo, I don't really see how this promotes pinball in a positive way. All I remember from the promo was some CL backstabbing and flipping for max profit. Those are two aspects of this hobby that I think I can do without.
But still, good luck trying to make the show a positive promotion for pinball. That will be quite a challenge if the promo will be anything like the actual show.
To be honest, I didn't care for it much, but then again I don't really like that type of reality show. I go the competitive shows that are more creatively inclined. Face Off. Ink Master. Skin Wars. They still have conflict and egos and everything else but I also get to marvel at the art the contestants create.
The show starts by saying that "pinball is back," but never really talks about what's next. I'd like the show to be about the minds that will make sure pinball stays "back" in the future. By no means am I in favor of kicking out the old guard. I would love to see John Popadiuk judge a cabinet art contest or Steve Ritchie tell someone that their layout "doesn't suck." I think it would be a neat way of passing the torch. I think that would be a better way of representing the hobby.
Quoted from CarShark:I would love to see John Popadiuk judge a cabinet art contest ...
That's funny, because most people just want to see John Popadiuk face a judge ... 
For a show to be financially feasible all cast member must live in proximity to one another so that one film crew (who in some cases flys out from Hollywood to live in that city for 3-8 months) can easily get to them all.
Part of getting a network to agree to a show is them understanding production costs.
In our case, LG TV has a crew based in Dallas for other shows that are currently in production on network so we could utilize them, reducing costs.
I understand and agree that there are the true leaders of this hobby, the innovators, designers and creators. There is no cost effective way to put them all in one show that would be shown each week, nor are all of them camera friendly.
I won't name specific people, but I know for a fact that some designers prefer to not be on camera because they don't have a lot of stage presence.
All kinds of things to consider.
No matter.
Show would be much better featuring some of the norther IL and WI crew as previous noted.
BangerJay olympics, Awesome Scott D, Flanker, Neo, Sharpe Bros, JJP north campus, Expo, Pinball life Terry and crew, Stern, tons of modders, Wally MM, Logans and Barron the barcade master tech, the list just goes on and on of why the chicagoland area is the place and cast for this sort of thing IMO.
DFW guys: Great job. I loved the sizzle and think you all did a fine job. I understand the point of the sizzle and you have to think of it as network exec 'bait'. Gotta get those sharks to take a bite before you get the show picked up by a network.
Quoted from Whysnow:Show would be much better featuring some of the norther IL and WI crew as previous noted.
BangerJay olympics, Awesome Scott D, Flanker, Neo, Sharpe Bros, JJP north campus, Expo, Pinball life Terry and crew, Stern, tons of modders, Wally MM, Logans and Barron the barcade master tech, the list just goes on and on of why the chicagoland area is the place and cast for this sort of thing IMO.
Actually the DFW, Houston and Austin scene has so much over the top activity it is great for a show like this. It is amazing the stuff that happens in the Pinball and Arcade groups and between the cities. Great TV content.
Quoted from Classic_Stern:Actually the DFW, Houston and Austin scene has so much over the top activity it is great for a show like this. It is amazing the stuff that happens in the Pinball and Arcade groups and between the cities. Great TV content.
I would actually love to see a tour of your collection.
Pinside: You had to be big shots didn't you. You had to show off. When are you gonna learn that people will like you for who you are, not for what you can give them. Well, in your race for power and glory, you forgot one small detail.
Jared: We forgot to hook up pinball.
Pinside: You forgot to hook up pinball.
when i watched the sizzle it actually got me pumped. i thought it was interesting, no matter if 100% real or not. it was entertaining. i liked it.
good job.
Quoted from Classic_Stern:Actually the DFW, Houston and Austin scene has so much over the top activity it is great for a show like this. It is amazing the stuff that happens in the Pinball and Arcade groups and between the cities. Great TV content.
Yes, but I was suggesting the IL/WI area is better if you actually want to show the positive light of pinball instead of what that sizzle featured.
Lots of people out there like things besides dumb TV.
Filming anywhere besides the radiant of all pinball and you are assured to never get past a single season.
I did hear back from the production company we're still working with. Interesting to hear their comments on the sizzle reel while trying to pitch their own 'competing' sizzle reel. Here were some of their comments:
- concept was weak (with respect to that style of show being produced and shopped around for every niche thing under the sun)
- characters were strong
- looked like some serious money was invested into producing this
It did reconfirm the belief from the production company that we're working with that there is a niche for pinball on TV . . . somehow, some way. We're definitely going a different route with our sizzle (pinball is a SPORT angle highlighting major players in a docu-series style), but anything that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the awareness of pinball to the masses.
Maybe once we reach DOA status with our project I can share the sizzle reel. I did pull it off the private youtube link and download it just so I had it forever 
Quoted from ifpapinball:but anything that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the awareness of pinball to the masses.
Good to hear someone like you say that. I believe that too.
Quoted from ifpapinball:anything that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the awareness of pinball to the masses.
Quoted from Jared:Good to hear someone like you say that. I believe that too.
Jared, don't take what Josh said TOO literally. I think he meant, "anything [good] that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the [positive] awareness of pinball to the masses."
There has to be quality control to ensure positive awareness. Otherwise, Stern would have simply hired somebody like P.T. Barnum instead of you, because P.T. Barnum once said, "I don't care what the newspapers say about me, as long as they spell my name right."
I don't think Stern would consider the following names for any pinball promotional activities, because of their notoriety and infamy:
- Orenthal James "O.J." Simpson
- Lance Edward Armstrong
- Nicole Elizabeth "Snooki" LaValle
Barnum probably would have said, "Bravo! You spelled their names right."
But how is that even REMOTELY applicable to pinball?
Well, here's another notorious name to add to that list:
- Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia
Along with a few infamous photos in pinball history...
Quoted from Razorbak86:Jared, don't take what Josh said TOO literally. I think he meant, "anything [good] that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the [positive] awareness of pinball to the masses."
There has to be quality control to ensure positive awareness. Otherwise, Stern would have simply hired somebody like P.T. Barnum instead of you, because P.T. Barnum once said, "I don't care what the newspapers say about me, as long as they spell my name right."
I don't think Stern would consider the following names for any pinball promotional activities, because of their notoriety and infamy:
- Orenthal James "O.J." Simpson
- Lance Edward Armstrong
- Nicole Elizabeth "Snooki" LaValle
Barnum probably would have said, "Bravo! You spelled their names right."
But how is that even REMOTELY applicable to pinball?
Well, here's another notorious name to add to that list:
- Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia
Along with a few infamous photos in pinball history...
571816_original.jpg
piccit_mayor_fiorello_laguardia_ord_1133813326.png
Let him speak for himself.
Quoted from Razorbak86:Jared, don't take what Josh said TOO literally. I think he meant, "anything [good] that can actually make it to market would be a huge step in increasing the [positive] awareness of pinball to the masses."
Lol . . . I've had this conversation with production companies and enthusiasts many times.
Here's my stance . . .
At this point in where the world is with people having any idea that pinball exists, I've far more forgiving into what I'm willing to personally believe in as being 'good for pinball'.
I've moved forward with treatments for shows that I thought were incredibly stupid, because of what that viewership could possibly mean for pinball awareness (See the episode treatments I posted earlier - while the playing Fire! in a building set on fire was obviously a joke, the Dunk the Dummy challenge episode was not). I would love for the World Series of Pinball to be on TV, and if it means that we first have to get through any kind of crap that the world would take for pinball to be something on the minds of the general public, that's a step I'm personally willing to take. I can't wait to be picky with the shows that the IFPA is willing to partner up with, but that time to be picky isn't yet.
I would much rather start a conversation about pinball with someone who saw a show and couldn't believe how stupid it was, and then fill them in on the 'real' pinball world . . . compared to the blank stares I get from my wife's relatives when we talk pinball. Half of them think I'm talking about ping pong, and the other half thought they stopped making pins in the early 80's when video games hit.
A perfect example is Game of Arms. I have no idea if that's what the real professional arm wrestling circuit is all about or not, but it at least makes me aware that professional arm wrestling is "a thing". If I want to know more about real professional arm wrestling the internet is a great place to go learn more about it.
If someone watches American Pinball Pickers Storage Wars, and they are intrigued enough about pinball as "a thing", that could lead them into potentially searching the internet about pinball. That search leads people to learning that new companies still exist making games today (hello Stern, JJP, Heighway, etc). That search leads people to see that there's actually a world ranking of competitive pinball players out there. That search leads people to see that there are apps where people can play these actually tables (hello Pinball Arcade). That's all available on like page 1 of a google search for "pinball".
Anyone that is willing to take a reality show as the end all/be all of what "a thing" is all about isn't someone I would be worried about anyway. These shows when done right (or wrong) are a gateway into people being interested in learning more about "the thing".
Just my $.02 . . . YMMV
Quoted from Razorbak86:- Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia
That name does more to promote pinball today then I think the old Mayor ever thought it would. The idea of pinball being illegal is laughable by nearly everyone today that even knows what it is. It's because of how outrageous it is that you keep seeing the same story told over and over.
Because of him, the story of pinball being made illegal leads to stories about my dad helping to legalize it, and that leads to stories about where pinball is at today.
Most recently this was told through the Travel Channel show Mysteries at the Museum:
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/mysteries-at-the-museum/video/pinball-wizard
Actually there's the full version here:
(start at 18 minutes it goes for just over 6 minutes)
Mysteries at the Museum averages between 300,000 - 400,000 viewers a week. If anyone within those viewers was led to google search pinball afterwards to learn more about it . . . that's a win for pinball.
No offense to the production company that did this, but this was just AWFUL AWFUL stuff. The story of my dad wasn't right at all, and they didn't bother to even interview him about it. We did get a chuckle after seeing the actor they picked to play 'young Roger'.
So . . . hooray for Fiorello La Guardia?
Quoted from Whysnow:Yes, but I was suggesting the IL/WI area is better if you actually want to show the positive light of pinball instead of what that sizzle featured.
Lots of people out there like things besides dumb TV.
Filming anywhere besides the radiant of all pinball and you are assured to never get past a single season.
We can respectfully disagree. I don't like the sizzle and I did not sign the contract over some things. But so say dumb TV. Really.
You a little jealous.? I think there could be much worse.
Quoted from ifpapinball:That name does more to promote pinball today then I think the old Mayor ever thought it would. The idea of pinball being illegal is laughable by nearly everyone today that even knows what it is. It's because of how outrageous it is that you keep seeing the same story told over and over.
Because of him, the story of pinball being made illegal leads to stories about my dad helping to legalize it, and that leads to stories about where pinball is at today.
Most recently this was told through the Travel Channel show Mysteries at the Museum:
http://www.travelchannel.com/shows/mysteries-at-the-museum/video/pinball-wizard
Actually there's the full version here:
» YouTube video
(start at 18 minutes it goes for just over 6 minutes)
Mysteries at the Museum averages between 300,000 - 400,000 viewers a week. If anyone within those viewers was led to google search pinball afterwards to learn more about it . . . that's a win for pinball.
Great! So let's think of ways that we can actually get the hobby banned again for another 30 years so that pinballers in the year 2045+ can all sit around and reminisce about how great a promotion it was for pinball. I hear that O.J. Simpson's Q-score has dropped a bit since his Hertz commercials back in the late 1970s, so if you hire him to do a commercial promotion for IFPA, you can get 500x the number of marketing impressions than you could back then. That would definitely generate some buzz! And Lance Armstrong seems to have a lot of free time on his hands, in between occasional meetings with his lawyers, so maybe he can come speak at an IFPA tournament just to get a large crowd out? Think of the possibilities!
Or we can just keep taking the P.T. Barnum approach, acting like carnival barkers, and wondering why the hobby's sizzle reels aren't being picked up by networks? 
Quoted from ifpapinball:That name does more to promote pinball today then I think the old Mayor ever thought it would. The idea of pinball being illegal is laughable by nearly everyone today that even knows what it is. It's because of how outrageous it is that you keep seeing the same story told over and over.
Because of him, the story of pinball being made illegal leads to stories about my dad helping to legalize it, and that leads to stories about where pinball is at today.
Well - they weren't completely off base were they? The underworld had their hands in Bally until pretty late as the stories go.....
Quoted from ifpapinball:I would much rather start a conversation about pinball with someone who saw a show and couldn't believe how stupid it was, and then fill them in on the 'real' pinball world . . . compared to the blank stares I get from my wife's relatives when we talk pinball.
I get it. Any publicity is good publicity. But you also have to ask yourself, are you attracting the *right* kind of people to the hobby?
There's been a lot of discussion about that - it's probably the main underlying issue between so much conflict that is going on today between various factions, competitors, hobbyists, collectors, flippers, pinside, RGP, other groups, etc.... not every type of "enthusiast" necessarily helps the hobby. Certain types tend to run off other types.
I like that our community is so diverse, but it also has its share of people who exploit others or routinely get taken advantage of, people who want to learn, and others who want to profit; some are in it for fun, and others are in it for money. Obviously we need a bit of everyone to make the scene prosper, but sometimes I worry about how certain factions show so little respect for others in the hobby, and I wonder if how our hobby and industry is portrayed exacerbates this problem?
Quoted from PinballHelp:some are in it for fun, and others are in it for money.
That is literally one of my spoken lines from the sizzle.
And it's actually true in real life.
Quoted from Jared:That is literally one of my spoken lines from the sizzle.
And it's actually true in real life.
I thought the same thing Jared. Our sizzle already has a catch phrase.
Quoted from Jared:Woke up to an interesting situation.
image.jpg image.jpg
What, a guy can't run his group the way he wants? I'm not on any 'side' in this matter, but perhaps you should worry about bigger things than what a private facebook group has to say.
Quoted from Matt_Rasmussen:What, a guy can't run his group the way he wants? I'm not on any 'side' in this matter, but perhaps you should worry about bigger things than what a private facebook group has to say.
If me or my friends are being discussed in public (or private): I'm interested.
I've seen a lot of interesting stuff, but never been called "scum" and threatened to be banned for a group I've been a member of in good standing for some time for participating in a sizzle reel for a show that didn't even get bought.
Quoted from Jared:If me or my friends are being discussed in public (or private): I'm interested.
I've seen a lot of interesting stuff, but never been called "scum" and threatened to be banned for a group I've been a member of in good standing for some time for participating in a sizzle reel for a show that didn't even get bought.
I'm not sure I agree with the decision to kick you out, but one thing is for sure. There has been some great disdain for the show in it's current form. If you do get picked up, hopefully there will be some positive changes that you can make as a result of this thread.
Quoted from DeeGor:I'm not sure I agree with the decision to kick you out, but one thing is for sure. There has been some great disdain for the show in it's current form. If you do get picked up, hopefully there will be some positive changes that you can make as a result of this thread.
I agree!
You guys only saw 10 minutes, but we cast members knew that the format of the show was intended to be a lot more friendly and more centered on the hobby than back stabbing and monetary exchanges.
The show "could" still get picked up at anytime, but the odds are much lower than when it was being actively pushed by WME and Lionsgate in Hollywood.
This is likely as close as we'll ever get to a pinball TV shown (ourselves) but I think one will get on the air eventually.
We're this show actually to be made, comments and suggestions from this thread would nearly certainly be taken into consideration. Also, the show would have frequent "guests" which could include, well, anyone in the nation.
Traveling around to shows nationally was going to be a big component of the show.
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