It seems people keep forgetting this part. So essentially we're talking about a 10 minute internet video. Should we start combing youtube and freaking out about every little video on there we don't like?

Everyone should take a chill pill and save their freak outs for an actual show that is on TV.

I have to say I am amused by all of this. I know most of the people involved in the sizzle, some better than others, and I really don't think it was a good representation of any of them.

I understand the need for "reality" TV to manufacture drama, but I don't think the producers really understand the hobby or get why we do what we do. They tried to jam everybody into roles that worked with other shows and ended up losing the flavor and unique aspects of the whole pinball/arcade enthusiast experience.

Rusty & Shelley = Jarrod & Brandi
Marc = Dave
Barry = Barry

Plus the name needs some sizzle. Pinballers is kind of lame.

Pinballers: Balls of Steel
Pinquest: The search for the Grail
19 Pins and Counting
...add your new title here...

ken

Your not exactly popular on Ls1tech either dude...just saying. I wont post all teh hate threads about you here out of respect for pinside mods.

Big mouth redheaded people rub others the wrong way throughout their lives. It's my curse to live with.

It's gotten a lot better since I've been married and even more so since I've had a kid but the online Jared from 2001 to 2007 still causes animosity to this day.

The upside to all of this is that I certainly do not have a boring life. LOL

I'm my opinion, someone who truly wanted to shake hands and be done with it wouldn't create drama like you have.

... And then drag it back here, to a thread that was basically dead and forgotten, to stir shit up all over again.

If you walk around all day and everyone is an asshole, maybe you're the asshole?

But hey, any publicity is good publicity, right Jared?

There have now been several incarnations of pinball themed TV shows. Not once have I heard how folks will deal with licensing. I think that is why none of these have been picked up.
"This here is a great game! (Blurred) Listen to this great music from the movie (beep). It's my favorite game of my friend's huge collection. Look at all these great games!" (2/3rds of screen blurred)

Let me see… I guess I’m confused as to which part of the sizzle makes us a**holes or is going to ruin the hobby. Everyone does realize it’s a reality show, right? Which we all know is not real.

Marc’s warehouse buy. Marc buys a warehouse of 80-90 games, untested, as-is, no cherry picking, for $15k. That $166+ per game for late 80s and older stuff. I don’t know how many of you have purchased a full warehouse games, but that’s actually too much for what was shown in the video (or is that the problem? He paid too much?). Don’t like Marc’s character? Yes, he is a jerk, but no worse than 1/3 of Pinside members and their keyboard commando comments and he plays the roll so well. He’s actually a nice guy.

The Scared Stiff buy. What’s the problem here? The CL bidding war? The idea the game is going to get flipped for a profit? Why is that a problem? The whole “greed” thing? Get over yourself. Every collector has sold games for more than they bought them or “flipped” them so they could fund their hobby to buy more games. Pinside has many CL stories exactly like this one so it’s part of the hobby. The seller in this scenario actually got MORE than his asking price. So again, Marc was actually a nice guy and gave the seller more. You’re worried there will be a flood of higher priced pins on CL from non-pinheads and you think the prices are too high? So? Don’t buy them and move along. The market is self-correcting.

My Monster Bash purchase/restore/sell. If you responded to a CL ad for a MB and there were no legs, no keys, no way to power it up, no idea the condition of the boards (or if the boards are even there), lots of playfield wear, needs new cabinet decals… what would you pay? If you think $2.5-$3k is unreasonable or I somehow “screwed” the seller, you are a foolish buyer. As far as the restore, I actually did restore that game so I’m not sure why there would be an issue there. As far as the auction, what is a fully restored MB worth? $8k? $9k? If you took your game to auction and a bidding war ensued with the hammer price ending higher than the game is worth to most pinball collectors, are you going to stop and say “wait wait wait, this is crazy. I can’t let you pay that much.” No, you’re not, so just stop. Clearly you’ve never been to an auction.

Jared’s part? I actually think he promotes the hobby the way everyone here on Pinside wants. Yes, we threw a little drama in there and the mobile arcade is “ridiculous”, but he shows off his garage arcade and is excited to bring people in, so what’s wrong with this?

Craig and Ernie’s dumpster find? Yes, it was staged, but it was loosely based on a true story. Pinheads know the odds of this are unlikely. Non-pinheads find it entertaining. So get over it.

I’ve seen several comments on “there needs to be more focus on the social side or gatherings”. Well, that is what Rusty and Shelley’s scene is. Pinball parties and having fun. True, I’ve never seen jello shots at an auction, but maybe we can start a new trend

We intentionally didn’t cover tournament play because we knew another sizzle was being made specifically for competitive play, but I’m sure we can incorporate that.

Surly Pinside understands this wasn’t made exclusively for pinball collectors. Should this project move forward, the format will change some.

For those that think this makes pinball collectors look bad or is going to ruin the hobby, no it will not, so just stop. We have received far more positive feedback via PMs and in person from folks that have seen it. Sadly many people have said they didn’t comment in this thread because they didn’t want to feed the haters. I can’t help but think some of those that “hate it” are just jealous, have friends they know are also working on projects, or are worried there will be such a surge of new collectors, they will be priced out of the hobby. I know not everyone will like it, but I know everyone will watch it

Anyway, everyone involved in “Pinballers” are good folks. We all love pinball… maybe a little less after being called names and hated on, but whatever, haters gonna hate.

-Ed

What, the one where Jennifer and I got the tip off about the JD in the dumpster, then Bill showed up to help us strip it of all parts since the backglass and playfield were gone? Where the hell's my royalties, man?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/some-things-you-just-cant-make-up-dumpster-parts

The next auction is in thirty minutes, right?

Grapefruit vodka jello shots WHAT?

A quick post about my perceptions about the state of reality TV in 2015.

Short version:
98% of all reality TV is horrible, emotion-exploiting crap. There are a few "good" (not great) shows out there that demonstrate that good reality TV can be made without relying on drama, and pitting people AGAINST each other. I make this point to empower those who are suggesting in this thread (many of you) who believe it's possible to have a pinball reality TV show that casts us pinballers in a good light. It IS possible.
Good "light-to-no-drama" reality TV already exists.

TL;DR version:
First, I'd like to say that pinballhelp has really made some great points about reality TV, and I'd like to add to the point he's been making.

mof in 2012: "I hate all reality TV, I don't watch TV in general, it's all about exploiting your emotions (other than perhaps PBS, where they try and teach you things without drama.)"

mof in 2015: "I hate 98% of reality TV. There are a few shows that have invention, creativity, joy, and accomplishment. I record them on my DVR, and when I need to chill and rest, I sometimes watch these shows other than NOVA on PBS or other science shows. There may even be a few more chill ones out there to know about."

1. treehouse masters: a guy and his team build very interesting tree houses for rich people -- if you appreciate engineering and architectural challenges, this show is for you.
2. the pool master: a guy and his team build very interesting pools for rich people -- if you appreciate engineering and architectural challenges, this show is for you. (not as interesting as the tree house show, imo)
3. forged in fire: 4 contestants try their best to forge weapons in a short period of time. There is zero infighting, and the judges are not berating them in any way. Best weapon-maker wins a small $10K prize (and more importantly exposure to his metal-forging business.)

All three of these shows have zero-to-little drama, really "beating the clock" is the only dramatic component, and I appreciate knowing my sensibilities will not be insulted while watching something a little interesting that might teach me a little about do's and don'ts regarding wood-working, "stone/cement work", and smithing.

I have to mention this to people who may still be stuck in the camp I was once in. There actually ARE a few shows that are not-insulting that teach you a bit about problem solving in various areas, and have some creativity/invention in them.

-mof

RECAP on day 12, page 10: (In case you just caught up with this thread like I did, and want to quickly know what all the different POV's are inside the thread... (I'm making 0 points here, just looking to create a helpful recap)

UNIQUE ARGUMENTS TO DATE (I only read posts with 4+ up or down votes, PM me if you feel I missed any...)

AGAINST
1. forceflow: another reality tv pickers show will hurt our pricing
2. fumbleflippers: that show is a greedy pin-flipper competition
3. mrgone: don’t see how this is good for pinball
4. fantasygoat: this show reinforces everything I hate about pinball: repellent people
5. aurich: this show is certainly good for Stern to raise used prices to make its NIB prices appear more inline
6. fantasygoat: this show makes all of us in the hobby look like d!cks
7. pinballhelp: hollywood is just cranking out sh!t to make a buck
8. pinballhelp: successful reality tv doesn’t HAVE to be about pitting people AGAINST each other -- competing

FOR
1. jared: we didn’t know how it would be edited -- we did it for the love of pinball
2. pinballholder: this could be good for pinball
3. jared: you people are selfish (only thinking about how prices will affect YOU)
4. gambit3113: don’t you think this is entertaining TV?

IDEAS
1. forceflow: I would enjoy a show that promoted the lighter side of pinball

-mof

(Most of my POV's have been spoken for -- I'll add my only unique idea in a later post)

You can add my opinion. I did think the video was pretty lame because there are literally like half a dozen other hobbyist reality shows that are the exact same as what this video showed.

That being said, I do not think it would affect the hobby negatively at all. I am always of the sentiment that any publicity is good publicity. There might be some more dumb craigslist ads, but so what? Sounds like the "More Craigslist Laughs" thread is only going to get better.

Do I think a pinball show would be awesome? Yes. But one using this format would get old really fast for me and non-pinheads for reasons I mentioned at the beginning of my post.

You could have had 60 minutes of GOD talking from the heavens and all I would have seen was GREEEEEEED!!!! No mater what you where going for the only thing that came through was drunks and GREED!

I just saw this video on facebook this morning and i watched the entire thing. i thought it was funny, true to life (there are people in the midwest that have craigslist apps on their phones and would call ahead even if they didn't want the game just to make sure someone else had to pay more for it), and entertaining. did i think that it was "fake", of course i did. it is just like other "reality" shows. Would i watch it on tv... HELL YEAH, but for the same reason i used to watch Pawn Star, American Restoration, American Pickers, etc. I just like seeing the items that come up. We all know that these shows (could) make the prices go up, but they also bring awareness to the public that these things (pinball machines) are still out there. How many Evil Knievel pinballs hit craigslist after the Pawn Stars episode? How many do you think actually sold for high dollars?

I have met a couple of these guys (maybe they remember me, probably not, but that doesn't bother me)

Jared - Working for Stern as their Facebook front line. No one can deny that Stern's social media didn't need someone like Jared to step up and get them in the 21 century. Jared, i think you are doing a great job! I have not met you in person, but i would say hi if i saw you at a show.

Ed - I met you at the 2014 TPF and volunteered for a couple of hours in the tournaments. it was the first time i have ever been to the TPF and i loved every minute of it. For the 3 days that i saw you i never once thought "there's an asshole that is trying to bring down the pinball community." No, as a matter of fact i have a lot of respect for Ed as i can only imagine what it is like to be one of the people responsible for such an amazing show (that a lot of us go to and have a great time).

Craig and Ernie - I have talked with both of these guys at the Texas auctions in the past (mostly the American Amusement Auctions), and while i didn't always see eye to eye with them, i never thought they were assholes. I did find their skit to be entertaining.

For the rest of them, i have never met them but i don't think they deserve all the crap some people here are giving them.

Is this the "face" that i think the public should see? probably not, but i participate in local tournaments, play in a local league, bring machines to local events (MGC) and i have noticed that the general public doesn't seem that interested in it. There is definitely a resurgence in pinball, but tournaments, league, shows are not going to be "entertainment" to people outside of our hobby. I have no real desire to watch the Barrett Jackson Auction (although i do when i am flipping channels), i don't like to hunt, so duck dynasty never did anything for me either. If a show based off of this sizzle would spark even a couple people to look at pinball and get them involved it would be worth it. For those of us in this hobby, this show is just entertainment... which is all it was every supposed to be. Real life is mostly boring, that is why we have TV, movies, pinballs, books, etc. If you don't want to watch it, go play pinball instead, but if someone at your office, church, pta meeting, whatever ever said "hey, i was watching tv last night and saw "Pinballers," have you ever seen it? Wouldn't it be worth that?

I truly don't care if you agree with me or not, but i thought it was entertaining.

I think Pinballhelp, forceflow, and others have pretty much already voiced my opinion on this topic, and I thank them for that. I get to type a short post.

My only contribution to this thread is just to point out that: A FEW reality TV shows are low-to-no-drama, and are enjoyable for those of us that "hate" reality TV in general.

With that in mind...

Dear 'future producer of the first pinball reality-TV show',

It would be "Best for Pinball" if you would design a show that showcases the many positive and kind aspects of the hobby without relying on cliched dramatic formulas to sell it to the studios and the public. Other successful shows, such as "treehouse masters" have proven that you can build a successful show without the RELIANCE on (profit, pickers, and pitting people against each other) to SELL the show -- but you can go ahead and INCLUDE those aspects of the hobby, in say... episode 10 (once you've built a positive foundation), then come back to all the positive stuff. Good reality TV can show all sides of the story, and not just lean on the "easy" profit/scandal/drama formula as a crutch -- there are DOZENS of positive pinball stories to tell, and dozens of good people to shine a spotlight on...

-mof

Perfect summary of my position. If you want a positive model for reality television, try Swamp People or Lost in Transmission. From what is shown here, pinball people will cringe and have to explain how its not how everyone in the hobby actually acts "acting being the key term" and for non-pinballers, it will add another grotesque spectacle of 'other's', like other exploitative and fictionally dramatic 'reality TV' where actual people do grotesque things and pretend its 'normal'. I just don't want any of these modern day freakshows. (No disrespect to the hard working people of actual carnival freakshows)

In my opinion, nothing good can come from this.

In the meantime, in the real pinball world, people like Dan from Project Pinball bring our hobby to new young people I would actually want in the hobby. If this show attracts anyone, it will be people just like the shallow characters presented, and I think that's a sad thing for everyone.

At least the family will now understand what my hobby is all about!

pinball tv.jpg

My whole contention is this: the way the Sizzle reel portrayed the show how does it in any way influence someone not currently into pinball, to want to participate, other than on the business side?

I think there are two separate questions here.

1) Would this make a good show and/or show pinball in a positive light and 2) would this benefit pinball.

I am just advocating that I doubt it would hurt it much and chances are it would help draw new people in (people who didnt even realize they could collect pinballs) and perhaps improve economies of scale.

In terms of question 1, nah, I am not a fan of scripted reality at all and it would be hard to watch this, although I would just to see pinball.

What kind of newcomers will this sizzle attract to the hobby?
Are those the kind of newcomers we are hoping for?

-mof

I just think back to all the people that I have talked to that tell me they never realized they could recapture the fun of their youth and buy their own pins. It seems so foreign to some people that it's even possible. If 1 million people watch a show and out of that 500 people go out and buy their first machine, that's not a bad thing. Not a needle mover, sure. But I don't see what this negative attention does to harm us, it's not gonna make us collectors get out. Maybe it prevents some potential people from joining but I think that's a lower number. Plus my hope is that most people (50%+) recognize reality TV for what it is.

Beats the hell out of Naked and Afraid I thought it was hilarious! Obviously a lot of fun went into making the vid. Will it drive speculators into the hobby? Oh, you mean they aren't already in? Sure, we all know grandma will now see the crusty Jive Time rotting in the basement suddenly "worth" $3000. Overall though public awareness is a "good" thing, IMO. Like the old saying goes; "Even bad press is good press" and again, IMO, this wasn't the worst press I've seen. I thought it was funny and mostly well edited.

It seems that some Pinsider's would like to control who is allowed to enjoy pinball as a hobby. What's up with that? You guys sound like my neighbor that wants everyone to get off his lawn.

Take this "wrong kind" and change it to some religion or race of people and we have a full blown news story going here about how we don't want any of those people in pinball.

It's a pitch for a TV show, aka entertainment. Don't like it, no big deal. It's not threatening you.

You guys are worried about a sizzle reel, while there are people on Facebook making us look bad right now. Priorities, folks.

I mean, I don't have anyone in particular in mind - but you just KNOW it's happening. Heck, it could be ME.

Actually, the dumpster find has some truth to it.
Iirc, a few years ago a member here found a Simpsons pinball party in the dumpster at a chucky cheese.

If the show goes then I will congratulate all involved.
It's not my cup of tea.
Nothing personal, you will notice I never hated on anyone, I offered some positive suggestions, and offered my opinion.
That's it. If you get picked up many here will watch.
I will be playing pinball.
You see kids, pinball ain't a hobby,
Pinball is life. Everything else is a game.

I doubt it....

My collection sucks. Its a bunch of classic Stern "Junk" and a few Bally games tossed in with a mix of DMD's , system 11 and a couple of complete thrash DE games. Those DMD's without finished software. You know "Those" games. Data East games made by the devil. Oh yea games that nobody wanted anything to do with in the 80's cause they were copies of Bally games and oh a few pinball "kits" that were not even worth a cabinet to put them in. A bunch of complete crap.

Had a little time for go through and read this thread, I guess I don't get it. I came away with one thing in mind, "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction".

Steve

In that respect i would be very helpful to have a little extra live updated information about any thread, like a ticker-tape, that would be cool!

Hey, go check out the latest coast 2 coast -- there's some talk on the Sizzle...
http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-176-summertime-sizzle-or-dont-shoot-the-pyramid_52095
-mof

"Fo sizzle my nizzle."
-Snoop Dogg

snoop.jpg

I appreciate his comments. Looking forward to the cast interview show. I don't think I'll be a part of it, but I'm eager to listen anyways. The guys going on there are a lot wiser than me.

Well I enjoyed the sizzle, and like they said on the latest coast2coast podcast I would watch it if it was picked up or taken to the Web as a series. Anyone on here that says they wouldn't watch it really is talking BS.
It's about pinball, of course we would watch it....

Just when you think this thread is dead...

Nates latest coast to coast show does a great job discussing this show. Personally I'd watch any show about pinball.

Can't see you behind your keyboard

what does that even mean?

He is from Dallas as is all of us. However none of us know who he/she is. I asked via PM to see if I knew the guy, to which I didn't receive a response. Keyboard Commando ...that's all I'm saying.

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/episode-177-the-cast-and-creator-of-pinballers_52398

Funny that mention about competitive pinball angle, since that was a large portion of the introduction video that my wife and I shot and never could get to Damien via any channel other than some no-name uploader site that never worked. I don't think it would've saved the thing to have that angle involved, FWIW.

How dare us!!!!

Amazing I'm thumbdowned for calling out an anonymous keyboard commando. If you can't say something nice and you hide behind your alias on this forum...yes you're a keyboard commando. So many talk a game on the forum but won't say a word in person.
See ya soon at one of our local dFW pinball events! I'm glad you are becoming a valued member of our local collector community.

Regards,
Hassellcastle, aka Craig "the scavenger", aka Craig Hassell

I just finished listening to the latest c2c podcast.
everyone involved in the sizzle sounds a lot more normal and fun than you appeared in the sizzle.
if you all can put in more of your ideas and input into a show and less storage wars type of reality tv it could be a good show that I might tune into. I agree, tv really needs a pinball show. it does not need another storage wars or the arcade kardashians.
either way, good luck to all involved.

I agree.
If the amount of 'input' these generous participants had into how this Sizzle was finally edited/presented is any indication of how a final product might go... I wouldn't hold your breath on this going in a direction many of us would ideally hope for.

The main question that comes to mind is: How do you create a tv/web series that is positive for the hobby?
If instead, your main question is -- how can I make a buck? Then you'll end up with another storage wars copycat.

A positive multi-dimensional, comprehensive, historical documentary series or a lucrative "sports" channel showing competitive pinball, might not sound like dollar signs to executives... but I think that's what we'd ultimately prefer.

Fun sells. Fun doesn't have to be mean-spirited drama. How can we make something fun, that isn't JUST hard-focused on the transactions of pinball? Surely some creative genius can solve this riddle without "pretending" that "but it's all executives want"...

-mof

How exactly am I a "keyboard commando"? Because I wrote, "Just when you think this thread is dead...". So your definition of a "keyboard commando" is when someone you don't know posts something you don't like or disagree with? I guess that makes all of us "keyboard commandos". You seriously need to grow some thicker skin, dude!
Not all of us on Pinside are constantly trying to promote ourselves like some..."aka Craig 'the scavenger', aka Craig Hassell"...give me a break. Not everyone has the "look at me" syndrome that some seem to suffer from. Must be the narcissism kickin' in.
Some of us are here just because we like pinball...period. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that you don't know who I am...I don't know 99% of the people on Pinside that I have conversations with! I should be able to speak my mind on Pinside without the worry that you and your little buddies that run certain pinball events in the Dallas area would take any criticism personally and "blackball" me from said events. So get over it Mr. Big Stuff!

I guess I am talking BS when I say that I did not even make it through half of the sizzle and would not have watched the show if it came to fruition. Pinball or not I have to like something about the show or the characters and this was terrible on both fronts in my mind. Maybe if it was completely recast and showed both the collectors and the Tournament players side of things.

You better watch what you say or Hassellcastle, aka Craig "the scavenger", will call you a keyboard commando...unless of course he knows who you are!

Haha! Part of being on TV is being ok with the fact that a lot of people simply will not like you and/or your product. I un-apologetically dislike 95% of all shows on TV, so the Pinballers should not feel butt hurt. Just because this show is about Pinball does not mean that any of us in the hobby should suck up our true feelings and say "oh this is great" or "I really like all the characters" if they really don't mean it.

Part of why Storage Wars is so popular is that there are characters that people like and characters that people like to hate. It is tough to pull off. Dave Hester is a good character because people don't simply hate him, they "enjoy hating him". I watch Storage Wars, American Pickers and Pawn Stars by the way.

As for the part about a show adding tons of flippers and opportunists to the hobby, that has nothing to do with my opinion.