(Topic ID: 72232)

Pinball........and watches?

By Astropin

10 years ago


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#1983 2 years ago

Oh I love watches. I suppose it's the mechanical aspect, like pinball. I've gotten a few broken vintage ones to see if I can learn how to do basic servicing and bring any back.

In terms of newer fare, I actually got one of the MING x Massena LAB collaboration watches and it arrived yesterday. Sadly, there appears to be an issue where the hour hand does not stay in sync with the minute hand (I think it has something to do with it being a GMT hand as you can jump it by the hour). Mr. Massena called me after I reported the issue to help with next steps. I'm doing some more tests so they can get a sense of things (a few others have had similar issues).

But it looks cool so here's a photo!

On Wrist (resized).jpgOn Wrist (resized).jpg

#1999 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

So what’s yalls feel on watch sizes? They seem to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

I think a lot of brands are coming down on size again. I'd have said Rolex still leans towards going big but they did just drop the Explorer back to 36mm for 2021.

For me it is a question of function. I'm more tolerate of tool watches being large but if I'm not getting a lot of water resistance or complications I'd rather the watch be small.

My smallest watch is 34mm (well, aside from my Reverso, but rectangular watches are a different beast) and my largest is 43mm (well, I guess my G-Shock might be 47mm wide but it's one of the square ones so rectangle exception works both ways!). I'd say I like the 38-40mm range best but really it comes down to the lug-to-lug distance. My 34mm is really comfortable to wear but the larger watches are easier to read.

#2001 2 years ago

Today is a Grand Seiko sort of day. Spring drive reminds me of the marriage of the technical and physical in pinball.
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1 month later
#2022 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

While I realize there are many shortages around the world in manufacturing I was shocked when I went to the local Rolex store this weekend (to look in case my wife is reading) and they had NO watches in the store! None! WTH?? Are they that behind or popular now that they have sold them all or did I just come on the wrong day? lol Kind of laughed as the store was still open with someone behind the counter but Nothing to sell??

It's a mix of things. Demand has been really high over the last few years. Production did fall in 2020 (it's a private foundation but market reports I've seen speculate they only produced 800,000 watches in 2020 due to the need to close the factory down; typical annual production is estimated at 1,000,000 watches).

Quoted from NicoVolta:

Rolex plays “artificial scarcity” games. It’s not like they are hand made… it’s clever marketing.

Rolex has been relatively consistent in their production output. I'd say they do choose not to expand production to meet increased demand, but by all reports they have not deliberately throttled production and reduced output (COVID requirements aside, as that was not their choice).

I do think Rolex could shuffle their 1,000,000/year output around to produce more of the high-demand steel watches and less of Cellini and other unpopular SKUs and don't do so to deliberately increase value to those who buy. I'm not a fan of this but it isn't my choice.

Not sure where all these claims Rolex doesn't hand-make watches comes from though. They don't do everything by hand but there are a number of steps that human beings directly do to each watch. Hodinkee had a piece they posted in 2015 where they toured all four factories Rolex uses and denoted the steps that were hand-made.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-rolex

I'm not aware of any significant production changes since that time period.

#2024 2 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

What a timely issue, I recently found out the owner of our business has started flipping Rolex watches. They are out there, just going for a rather large premium right now!

Oh yes, the "grey market" as it is called is full of Rolex models. It's easy to get a Rolex that you want, just hard to get it for retail. Many feel Rolex is not doing enough to crack down on authorized dealers (ADs) selling to people who then flip the watch on the grey for profit. I agree. Rolex has taken some steps recently but it's all been quite milquetoast in my view (e.g., *recommending* each AD limit customers to three Rolex buys per year).

The rule-of-thumb is you can get a Rolex from an AD if you have an established relationship. What does that mean? Buying less popular watches, jewelry, etc. Then, assuming the AD is on the up-and-up (and not directly selling to the grey, which Rolex does seem to punish severely if they find out), you get offered the watches you want first when they arrive.

The big question of course is do you want to dump a bunch of money on jewelry and watches you don't want to get a Rolex at the fair price, or just go grey market and pay more and get exactly what you wanted without playing games. The latter is preferred for many and so the cycle continues.

Not just Rolex either. Patek Philippe's Nautilus 5711 reportedly had a 10-year waitlist. So what did Patek do this year? Discontinued it...

1 month later
#2062 2 years ago

Got my 17.09 back last week after MING got the movement upgraded to solve their independent hour issue. They provided free strap codes to those impacted given how long it took, so I ordered a white rubber strap to give it a more casual look than the default calf strap provides (their flared lugs require a non-traditional strap to look right).

17.09 on white strap (resized).jpg17.09 on white strap (resized).jpg
1 month later
#2081 2 years ago
Quoted from Zartan:

I would love to find a Coke Dial GMT. I bought mine 15 years ago and regret selling it. Cost has gone through the roof since then!

I've always found the Coke bezel insert interesting but I guess most people prefer the Pepsi.

Today I'm wearing my Tudor 1926.

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#2093 2 years ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Well this is great. One of my Christmas gifts from my wife was the Seiko x Street Fighter Blanka watches! It's my first Seiko 5, it's a very neat watch.

I hope you roared like Blanka when you put it on!

I looked into that line when it was announced. Was tempted by the Ryu.

I got a Marathon field watch yesterday. Did not expect it to arrive until next week. My first field watch and first to use tritium tubes.

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#2095 2 years ago

Yeah it can be tricky. I have not tried one of those kit watches but I have bought several manual winds off eBay to take apart, clean and service, and re-assemble. That last step is easily the worst, so easy to damage a pivot or bend a spring. I have destroyed several parts in my learning process. Feels good when it comes together though.

1 month later
#2133 2 years ago

I'd been wanting a flieger watch for a while now, and I identified that I wanted a model from one of the original five manufacturers. Stowa seemed ideal for me as they've got a lot of options and have modernized the case design in ways I find more comfortable. Only trouble with Stowa is they sell direct and thus rarely do sales. Every year they do an Advent Calendar sale which they use to clear out watches they built to display at events. One day, one new watch type for sale (quantity available varies of course).

I'd say about half the sales were Type A fliegers. Which makes sense, it is a design far more suited for modern purposes and thus I imagine demand is much higher. I wanted a Type B though. They finally had those on sale about two days before the event ended. Took over a month to actually receive it. I find it way more comfortable than my prior pilot watch though.

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#2138 2 years ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Excellent choice. STOWA type B was my #1 flieger choice too. Did you go for the hand-wind option?

Yes, knew I only wanted hand wind.

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1 month later
#2150 2 years ago

My only watch with a green dial (though I do have another with a green bezel).
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1 month later
#2160 1 year ago

I ended up getting a PRX. My first integrated bracelet style watch.
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3 months later
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#2205 1 year ago

Picked up a Seamaster 300M. My first Omega.
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#2207 1 year ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Ordered that red Oris Aquis (41.5mm) and the titanium (43.5mm).

Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the red Aquis Date, I've looked at that several times as I've been sorely tempted to get a red dial watch. I actually looked at their Big Crown options first but I cannot stand cathedral hands ever since I saw them on the Seiko Alpinist, but then saw the dive series doesn't use that format. Only other red I've really looked at are a couple of the Orient designs.

#2209 1 year ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Awww. No cathedrals?
[quoted image]

Only the bulbous hour-hand variants. Reminds me of a tulip bulb. Such a small thing and yet I overwhelmingly do not want it in my collection (and I like tulips in real life!).

I always thought it was odd when people ruled out Tudor watches just over snowflake hands but then I saw that ugly tulip hour hand and was like, "...I understand you now." Normally I'm pretty indifferent to hand style as long as the watch is readable (and Tudor has gone, in my opinion, too far when they stick on snowflake hands on chronographs that end up blocking 50% of their subdials when in position).

But that GS SBGH269 has the traditional style hour hand, or at least what I think of with GS (my GS is very similar). Fine tip hands are fine, I'm all for syringe hands.

#2212 1 year ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Speaking of the Omega Seamaster Diver 300m, I’ve been enjoying mine, but the one thing that disappointed me was the bracelet. Very functional, but bulky as heck. It felt like I had an extra watch on the underside of my wrist because of the large buckle. I’ve been looking for a rubber strap for some time, not wanting to pay for the much more expensive fitted ones. Finally took a chance and bought this one online from Strapco. I must say it works really well. My watch already feels a lot lighter.

For my Tudor Black Bay Bronze I used a Barton Watch Bands silicone (https://www.bartonwatchbands.com/). I like it and they are like $20-30 if I recall. Sadly, it is a 23mm watch so I can't use it for the 300M but I may order from them again. I'll take a look at Strapco.

#2223 1 year ago
Quoted from halflip87:

Lookin’ good! I just picked up my first Omega too, to celebrate my 35th birthday. I’m a 90s kid, so I had to go with the Goldeneye era Seamaster 300. Reminds me of simpler times.

Oh yes, I looked at the Pierce models too (both the quartz one in Goldeneye and the automatic I think he wore in the others). I reckon those films are why the 300M is so popular today. But I love Omega's grey dials so I prioritized finding a model that used it.

#2226 1 year ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

I learned an expensive lesson about trying on watches from overseas worth more than $800…
…it doesn’t work like Amazon.
Needless to say, after paying shipping, customs duties, and facing even more expensive return shipping… I now own two Aquis (Aquises?).
Titanium grey 43.5mm

Sunburst is probably my favorite dial style, and grey is my favorite color. I agree though, the sizing on the red seems better (I'm also a 6.75" wrist so this is quite helpful).

I remember getting hit with customs charges when I imported a Stowa. I knew to expect it but that bill came later (like a month later) and I hate it when multiple bills trickle in on a purchase so I've avoided imports since then.

EDIT: Oris just revealed a few new watch designs for Geneva Watch Days 2022 also. Some mother-of-pearl dials and a retro diver with their in-house movement.

3 weeks later
#2229 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Newly acquired: The Grand Seiko Heritage Four Seasons "Shunbun" Spring Drive SBGA413. Now that's a mouthful. Pretty much impossible to catch all the details in the dial with photos.

Very nice; I don't think I've seen that model before. I love Spring Drive, it's such an interesting technology and feels like a sort of best of both worlds in terms of blending quartz and mechanical. Plus they tend to have pretty beefy power reserves.

In my opinion, one would have to go up to Moser and its price-point to find dials that can compete with Grand Seiko.

2 weeks later
#2235 1 year ago

Got a couple new watches recently. Both are the largest I own (44mm diameter).

One is the IWC Portuguese (they've since renamed the line the Portugueser but this predates the name-change). This is the Hand-Wound model they ran with very briefly (I think it was about 2010-2014). It actually uses a pocket watch movement like the original Portuguese did. I've been looking into these for a quite a while, a dress watch but massive by design. They curved the lugs which helps but this is at the edge of my comfort range to pull off (I think the lug-to-lug is about 52mm and that is a lot). The bezel is so small though this thing is all dial. It's meant to be massive. However, it's also pretty thin (I'd say around 10mm) so it can slide under cuffs. The modern line is a bit smaller with a similar look (automatic though so I assume thicker).

Portuguese (resized).jpgPortuguese (resized).jpg

Then I received a red Orient Kanno for my birthday. These come in a few colors. I think the nickname was "Kano" (one "n") until a few years ago. Dive watch style. I'd say the Kamasu (which also comes in red) is the more popular Orient, probably because it's a couple mm smaller and has sapphire instead of mineral glass, but there were some design decisions on the Kanno's dial that I think look better. Shorter lug-to-lug than the Portuguese and given the dive timing bezel this one looks smaller by comparison as the dial isn't taking up the entire diameter.

Kanno (resized).jpgKanno (resized).jpg

4 weeks later
#2258 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

I’m thinking about buying a mechanical watch. Never owned one, just curious if they require much maintenance and upkeep and how often or how much does that cost?
Is it better to buy a new watch and is there a good place to shop?

They run best with maintenance but many modern ones will run beyond their service intervals (they'll just start to perform worse). Some brands are up to ten year service intervals. Most watches seem to recommend service every five years or so.

Service cost depends a lot on the movement, both its complexity and whether the movement is a third-party option (which means parts are easily available for independent watchmakers) or in-house to the brand (which, depending on the brand's behavior, can be hard for independents to source parts to and the in-house watchmakers are usually more expensive).

Broadly speaking, most watch servicing costs between $100 and $1,000 (assume more for complications like chronographs). I'd say simple watches relying on something like the ETA 2824 or Sellita SW200 (both are third-party movements common to many luxury watches) is roughly in the $200-400 range for service pricing. Note this covers standard maintenance but if you have damage (like needing a new crystal) you'll see some additional costs for those components since they generally don't need replaced.

I do not believe it is better to buy new (at least with luxury watches). Watches are less like pinball machines and more like cars, aside from some very hot models or brands. So, you can often find significant savings via a used purchase, particularly if you explore older models. If uncomfortable buying from a private seller (e.g., worries about authenticity) there are a lot of established used online storefronts (you'll pay more than direct private but they'll often have serviced the watch and authenticate it before sale since they don't want their reputation damaged for selling a counterfeit).

If you want new checking a major grey market supplier like Jomashop can often get you a good price (places like Jomashop get models from retailers that aren't selling, or aren't selling fast enough, so a place like Jomashop buys in bulk and then sells to customers for less than the AD would); authentic with all the new items (box and papers) but you'll usually lose the manufacturer warranty and the grey dealer warranty is generally shorter.

If you just want a mechanical watch, non-luxury, you can buy a number of them cheap enough that it would be more affordable to trash them and buy another when they give out rather than service them (in fact servicing might just be dropping in an entirely new movement rather than actually taking apart and cleaning the old one... changing a movement out is a lot faster). Seiko does still occupy some of this space, particularly with their Seiko 5 line, but Orient is a good option if you want an established brand with lots of choices.

#2263 1 year ago

Both of these have excellent video quality, but I will qualify it that neither of these individuals is neutral. Teddy is a distributor and mostly focuses on talking about watches his business sells. Jody sometimes does independent reviews but (and he's very open about this) he is often "paid" for his review (often getting to keep the watch he receives to discuss).

I think both are excellent for specs and great macro shots but I when it comes to opinions bear in mind who is signing their checks.

Quoted from NicoVolta:

Hey Dennis maybe another red dial option?
[quoted image]

That has a nice red effect, I bet it looks a lot better in person. Thankfully (for me!) I'm not really into sandwich dials so I like it less than the others we've discussed (which is good my wallet wants a breather).

Quoted from Frippertron:

Have any of you guys checked out the new CW bel canto? This thing is unbelievable and under 4K. It has a chiming hour and is the best price point for such a complication.[quoted image]

Yes, the sound it makes is very nice. So many inexpensive sound watches I think sound bad (granted most are alarm watches and they are meant to wake you up). Aesthetically I personally prefer the MeisterSinger Bell Hora as I'm not really interested in seeing this much of the mechanism on the dial side (not surprising, I don't like skeleton watch dials either).

The minute repeater is my favorite complication in watches. I haven't been able to get interested enough in chime watches to want to buy one myself. I think I would if it would chime the hour out on the hour, rather than just doing a single chime each time. But I bet the cost to do that is going to go way up (given tracking that as an hour repeater would be a lot more mechanically complex).

Christopher Ward has a lot of fans and while I've not been into their watches they have a lot of hobbyist support and I think it's nice to see them working on new things and not just turning out yet another dive watch like so many microbrands do.

#2266 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

Hey, just checking in, have not owned a nice watch before, but just got the bug to buy one at least. I am not sure if watches are like pinball machines and they multiply?

Depends if you end up making it a hobby. I owned one nice watch for 13 years. Got into watch collecting during the pandemic.

Quoted from rai:

Here is my search, at first I wanted to get a Rolex Oyster Perpetual 41, before I looked into it I wanted the turquoise blue (that's discontinued) but after lookin those are going for up to $30K so that's crazy, realistically I would like to buy from a Rolex dealer at MSRP. I might go to the dealer tomorrow to see the possibility. I don't want to buy a resale or pay over MSRP.
I would consider any suggestions but this might be my one and only watch I might want to go right to the top rather than work up to it. I was looking at a Grand Seiko that I liked but it's a manual (not automatic).
Things I am looking for (prefer):
Automatic (not manual)
Dressy and Everyday (in one)

I like the Oyster Perpetual. I had one (well have but I actually just sent it in to trade for something else so it should be gone from my ownership in a week) just found I no longer needed to mix sports and dress because I own so many now.

Since it sounds like you're wanting some other suggestions for consideration I'll provide a few.

Omega would probably be the first brand most would think of as a comparison to Rolex. Omega loves their date functions but their Seamaster Heritage line has a lot of no-date options and could work if you like the classic dial designs. Perhaps something like this 40mm linen-dial Railmaster (https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/watch-omega-seamaster-railmaster-co-axial-master-chronometer-40-mm-22010402006001):
Railmaster (resized).pngRailmaster (resized).png

Another thought is you might be interested in the Polaris from Jaeger-LeCoultre (JLC). JLC is best known for the Reverso but they do have sports watches. This is more of their dive watch but it stays a lot more classy than the typical as the timing bezel is gone and instead it is internal as a chapter ring with a crown to turn it, and it's 41mm (https://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/us-en/watches/polaris/polaris-automatic-stainless-steel-q9008170):
Polaris (resized).pngPolaris (resized).png

You mentioned liking Grand Seiko. The nice thing with them is their grammar of design philosophy means the dial configuration on many of their watches is very similar. You'd might like to check out the SBGR299 from their heritage collection. Automatic, no-date, 42mm (https://www.grand-seiko.com/us-en/collections/sbgr299g):
SBGR299G (resized).pngSBGR299G (resized).png

The last one I'll name that does a lot of fancy sports watches is IWC. There can be a lot of diversity in their lines (like in terms of complications) but if you like the idea of a small seconds subdial yet still on a steel bracelet you might be interested in their 40mm Portugieser Automatic (https://www.iwc.com/us/en/watch-collections/portugieser/iw358312-portugieser-automatic-40.html):
IWC (resized).pngIWC (resized).png

#2270 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

Yes!
Thanks for the suggestions.
I will check them out. It’s amazing how many watch there are to choose from.
I wanted to ask if you think 36mm is too small? I see Rolex still makes their OP in turquoise only in the smaller size. My wrist is around 7 inches. Also do you think turquoise is a nice color or just a fad.
[quoted image]

I do not think 36mm is too small for a 7" wrist but it would be seen as more of a dress watch size rather than a sports watch. I'd try it on and see if you like how it looks. As a three-hander only it won't be a challenge to read.

My OP was a 34 and I have a 6.75" wrist (though this was a prior reference and the sizing was more like a 35; the current 34 is more of a true 34).

Most watch companies don't advertise the lug-to-lug distance. That's actually the more important (in my opinion) measure as that determines how much space the case of the watch eats up on your wrist. A small diameter watch with substantial lug-to-lug can wear much larger than a watch that has short lugs.

As for turquoise, I think it is both a nice color and a fad. The reason the second-hand Rolex turquoise prices are so out of hand (moreso than their other watches) is because Patek Philippe released a 5711 Nautilus cobranded with Tiffany (the jewelry company) in Tiffany blue (which is a turquoise) as their final run of the 5711. It was limited to 170 pieces. The 5711 is a hype model, it reached six figures on the secondary market (and that was for the regular production run).

Anyway, the first Tiffany version sold for $6.5 million via auction at the end of 2021 (that's 120x its MSRP). So, then the market went crazy and started calling things like the Rolex OP in turquoise "Tiffany Blue" and those prices also went up. That's a fad and while the 5711 models might always be expensive the other brands that just used a similar color should go down in popularity over time.

Here's a picture of the 5711:
5711 (resized).png5711 (resized).png

1 week later
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#2290 1 year ago

Mentioned I was trading in my Oyster Perpetual, I swapped it for a Panomatic Lunar from Glashütte Original. I've been considering one of the Pano line for quite a while (this is the prior reference). I felt the power reserve model would be more practical but I think the moonphase looks better.
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1 month later
#2353 1 year ago
Quoted from Desmodromic:

Spending above retail on a watch is no different than spending above retail on a pin or on a car or on concert tickets. People are paying it and the prices are where they are because the demand is crazy compared to the supply. If there weren't people paying double the original retail, prices wouldn't be where they are. They weren't a few years ago!

Basically this.

Rolex is in a very unique position. It is a brand a lot of watch collectors are interested in but it also is the most famous luxury watch brand for people who are not into watches but want a luxury watch.

Basically everyone knows the name Rolex (even if they don't know what a Rolex looks like). If you decided you wanted a nice watch Rolex was probably the first brand that came into your mind. That has been true worldwide for decades. I think the big difference now is the whole Instagram/flex culture thing has resulted in a lot more people wanting them. So you've sort of got that whole Supreme crowd also trying to scoop these up.

And it's pretty telling that a company that makes one MILLION watches per year still cannot satisfy that demand and scarcity remains a challenge.

My understanding is Rolex is building a new factory. Assuming it actually allows them to produce more watches (I'm not yet clear if that's the factory's purpose... Rolex definitely doesn't want to overproduce because it will reduce the prestige of the brand) I think things will loosen up more. We've seen a lot of second-hand price declines on Rolex models since March 2022. Also, continuing economic pressure because of the crypto collapse and equity markets no longer rapidly growing should mean fewer people are in a financial position to buy them, which will also lessen demand.

Will it ever get back to the point where you can buy a secondhand Rolex for less than it sells for retail? I think eventually on some models. But we'll see.

1 month later
#2422 1 year ago

I ended up getting a Seiko turtle. Wears really well. I was curious given it is the largest diameter watch I own (45mm) but quite short lug-to-lug keeps it very manageable.

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#2425 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

That looks really great. Is that modded or a Japenese model with the symbol day of week dial?

Actually, for some strange reason Seiko decided to do an English/Kanji day window on these three turtle-shell patterned dial watches (this is the SRPH57 but they have one that's more blue, the SRPH59, and a brown one, the SRPH55).

I say it's a strange reason because these are called the Seiko Prospex U.S. Special Edition and were just made for the U.S. market (they are themed around turtles, fitting given the case design nickname, and raising awareness for the Oceanic Society). And Seiko normally doesn't provide the Kanji day option on their U.S. products.

So this is the default model look. I can have it in English of course but I need to be fancy. For those not familiar, many day wheels (all I've ever had) actually have two language options and when the day changes it clicks twice to stay on the same language. All the other watches I've had with the feature were English/Spanish though.

1 month later
#2442 1 year ago

I got my first Oris yesterday. Their new Kermit reminded me how much I liked last year's ProPilot X releases (though I think they are in no real way a pilot's watch, the dials do not adhere to any pilot watch rules). But inaccurate name aside I do like the piece.

PXL_20230412_174527674 (resized).jpgPXL_20230412_174527674 (resized).jpg

#2444 1 year ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Austere, but nicely tooled. I’m sure it fits like a glove.

I got it well sized but no microadjust on the bracelet so others might struggle a bit. Links are relatively small but I think those who are very particular about sizing might want to look elsewhere (or consider a strap change).

#2447 1 year ago

Sinn is very well respected and I know a lot of fans. Most of their more popular models don't really appeal to me in terms of design but durability is purportedly top-notch. While they weren't at Watches and Wonders I believe they were at Time to Watches where they showed off some new T50 models. I'll include a promotional photo from their site.

Speaking of, did anyone see anything really interesting out of Watches and Wonders? I didn't find it as good as last year, though given the current market conditions I assumed most brands would be more limited in their new novelties. I really liked the new VC Overseas moonphase retrograde but purportedly that's going to be $45,000 since it's boutique-only.

New_Watches (resized).jpgNew_Watches (resized).jpg

#2451 1 year ago
Quoted from Jaeg:

I'll be interested in your review on the titanium Oris. I went with the titanium Aquis over the 400 movement.

I'll probably get a full review up on my wristwatch YouTube later this week, unless I get too busy at work. No earlier than Wednesday though, I want a few more days wearing it before I finalize my thoughts.

3 weeks later
#2462 11 months ago
Quoted from HeyYouSir:

I've accumulated some watches over time (sound familiar?) and I was wondering what you do with respect to servicing your mechanical watches? Of course, taking the cost of the watch into consideration there are a number of options. For divers, do you really do more than desk diving and how critical is the water resistance, etc. Thoughts?

I service if I notice the watch is running notably out of spec or if something is broken. Most watch companies give recommended service intervals that are, in my opinion, far too frequent (and many watch companies make good money servicing their own watches and that's an incentive to promote frequent servicing).

High water resistance does matter a lot if you are going into the water frequently with your watches. It has to do with the water pressure the watch experiences. Worrying about surviving rain/splashes isn't a big deal for most watches. Submersion is another factor. It is recommended to have a watch you wear in the water checked regularly. Lots of watch shops can do a pressure test for you. The repair on the water proofing is gaskets it in and of itself is not an expensive fix.

Independent watchmakers are excellent for a lot of servicing and are cheaper than going through the manufacturer. However, this does depend on the movement. Ultra-complicated watches with in-house movements I think should go through the manufacturer for a variety of reasons. However, most sports watches can be handled by an independent even if the movement is in-house. They should be able to inform you if you need some sort of part they can't get.

2 weeks later
#2495 11 months ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

Is this the only Rolex with a clear back?

The new 1908 Rolex dress watch has a display back, as do some of the older Rolex Cellini models. But I think this is the first sports watch they've done with one.

2 weeks later
#2522 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

Anybody check out the new Brequet Type XX’s.

Seems to be a lot of blowback about the 4:30 date window decision. I know a lot of collectors hate the 4:30 date outright, but I do think it's an odd choice for Breguet. I've seen several state they were hoping for something more akin to the one-off Type XX for Only Watch 2021 (Only Watch is a charity auction where manufacturers make a single, unique example of a watch for the event). I'll include a picture.

TypeXXOnlyWatch (resized).jpgTypeXXOnlyWatch (resized).jpg

I'm personally not a fan of the enlarged 3 o'clock subdial, and how it crops the Arabic hour markers, so I'd be out regardless but I know that's a staple at this point for the design.

I actually really like the old Breguet Marine watches, with the big date function, the 5817s. Been watching those for over a year. I'll insert an example.

Screenshot 2023-06-09 at 09-14-29 Breguet Marine Big Date 5817ST_92_5v8 Stainless Steel 39mm... for $12 500 for sale from a TrusScreenshot 2023-06-09 at 09-14-29 Breguet Marine Big Date 5817ST_92_5v8 Stainless Steel 39mm... for $12 500 for sale from a Trus

#2525 10 months ago

I'm not inherently anti-4:30 either (I'd more judge the decision to write Swiss Made under the date instead of at the 6 o'clock). I quite like it on the Zenith Chronomasters, though I read (but have not confirmed) Zenith was the first to do the 4:30 with their movement so I suppose they get creativity points.

13
#2532 10 months ago

A few months ago I got rid of most of my dress watches. I wanted a Lange 1. Found a used model but it needed a service so I recently did get that back and it's working well now.

So I keep telling myself "self, no more dress watches." I did keep my Reverso though. Exceptions, always exceptions.

Photo:
On Wrist (resized).jpgOn Wrist (resized).jpg

#2538 10 months ago
Quoted from Frippertron:

DennisK. What’s the craftsmanship like on a Lange? Unfortunately, I’ve never had the pleasure. I picture walking into an AD or boutique like the children walk into the chocolate room in Willy Wonka. Pure imagination!

I have no idea the boutique experience; I think the closest one to me is NYC (and I bought this used; a lot of people buy these to get access to Lange's fancier watches so they can be had quite a bit less on the second-hand market).

So, setting aside that the watch is gold (which accounts for part of its pricing), the movement is really where a lot of the differences are. Here's a picture of the back of mine (blurred areas are just the serial numbers).

LangeBack (resized).jpgLangeBack (resized).jpg

The three-quarter bridge is in German silver (which actually has no silver in it at all) which gives it that warm sort of look. You can see Glashütte striping has been applied as a finishing pattern (the Swiss do a similar pattern, the Glashütte style is a bit wider). The caps and their surrounds (like around that center "island" which is designed so you can access the keyless works) are mirror beveled. There is mirrored chamfering along the edge of the three-quarter plate (where it faces the balance). Some of the screws are black polished (e.g., the case clamps) as is the part of the cover over the escape wheel and the swan's neck regulator. You can see some of the base plate under the balance; it's decorated with engine-turned perlage. A number of the screws, especially around the jewels, are fire-blued. Now, screws around jewels are a bit atypical in modern watches because the technology exists to just seat the jewels into the bridge. But Lange is using gold chatons, so the jewels are inserted into the chatons, and those get screwed into the bridge. The balance cock is engraved (freehand; each one is unique).

So, there's just a lot more hand finishing involved (the black polish, the hand-engraving, the decision to seat chatons, etc.).

Here's a photo of the balance engraving so you can see it better:
BalanceEngraving (resized).jpgBalanceEngraving (resized).jpg

One of the things I like about Lange is they take the finishing pretty serious (for a mass production watch brand) versus the Holy Trinity. Patek does great finishing... on their high-end pieces. But compare the more entry-level stuff from Patek or AP and I think you'll find Lange puts in more effort. But, for me the Lange 1 was always about the dial configuration. Asymmetry in general is pretty rare but no one does it like Lange. It's very German in its approach (they laid everything out with respect to the rule of thirds) but the outcome is extremely visually satisfying (because the math says it will be).

#2540 10 months ago

Moser definitely doesn't put up with any Holy Trinity sass. They take great glee in poking their finger into the eye of the establishment. And they have the design chops to back it up.

1 week later
#2559 10 months ago
Quoted from epotech:

2 new watches today. Ice blue PRX and a bronze flieger that I'm putting on my genuine 1978 bund strap.
[quoted image]

What brand is the Flieger?

#2561 10 months ago
Quoted from epotech:

Just a cheap Chinese version. Tandorio. First foray into a bronze watch so didn't want to throw a lot at it.

I like the look, couldn't identify the logo. I was sorely tempted to get a bronze Stowa when they had their Christmas sale a couple years ago but I wanted a Type B dial and they only marked down the steel ones.

I had a bronze Tudor. I felt it looked pretty good but wore a bit big for me (they since came out with a smaller version).

1 week later
13
#2565 9 months ago

I purchased a new chronograph. My first "nice" watch was a Citizen chronograph which I used quite a bit to time things. My first, and until now, only mechanical chronograph was a Hamilton but I absolutely hated it. The watch was huge, way too top heavy, and to-date is the most unbalanced watch I've ever worn.

The new one is a Zenith Chronomaster Original. I held off for a while for two reasons. First, initial reports when the Caliber 3600 movement came out is there were some issues with them so I wanted to wait to get a later run to minimize the risk of needing an early service repair. Second, at 38mm I was very unsure if I would find it too small for a chronograph. The Chronomaster Sport line seemed a safer size, but I wasn't enamored with how much like a Daytona those appear to be.

There is no Zenith dealer in the area so I was going to have to take a chance. Good news is I do think they laid it out quite legibly. This is very much a mirror of their historic A386 in most regards.

ZenithWristShot2 (resized).jpgZenithWristShot2 (resized).jpg

#2569 9 months ago

What is the PRX chrono size? I had a quartz PRX, the original (40mm?) but it felt large on me. I think the 35mm would be good but have not tried it yet. Those PRX hang long on the bracelets.

#2573 9 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Congratulations on one heck of a watch.
How do you like the bracelet?

Bracelet is "okay" but more on the negative side of average in my opinion for a watch at this price tier.

Positives:
1) Five micro-adjust positions so you should be able to get a good fit and (as long as you're not by default in the last position) can adjust if your wrist swells.

Negatives:
1) Micro-adjust does require a tool (lots of brands are moving away from this).
2) No quick-release (again, this is becoming more common to do now).
3) The clasp is not impressive. It's hard to grab with a finger and I find it easier just to hold the sides and pull HARD to release it. It feels secure and all, just tough to actually take it off because of the design.

Other:
1) High-polish center links are going to be a scratch magnet. Very odd decision there in my opinion. Whether this is good or bad depends on your thoughts of scratches.
2) The links are screws but there is a screw head on each side (one is like a hollow pin and a small screw goes into the open end). So you basically need two screwdrivers to stop the pin spinning to remove them. And unless you've got a holder designed for this (which I lack) it is a nightmare to try and use both hands and hold the link in position and apply enough force. One-time effort of course but I hold a grudge on these things.

So, overall, comfort is fine and it has a nice look but Zenith is clearly not investing R&D into making a better wearing/sizing experience and their competitors are so hopefully they step up their game in the future.

2 months later
#2620 7 months ago
Quoted from woody24:

Oh hey! I can participate.
Last year I got married. My wife, who lives a minimal life and doesn't understand why people hold onto anything of value, bought me a Breitling from the mid-1940s. It's 100% legit. I sent it to a guy who Breitling themselves recommended because he used to work for them and now spends his time fixing and cleaning vintage Breitlings exclusively.

Very cool watch. I see the caseback has the reference. As was noted, the recordkeeping back then wasn't to the detail we see today, so there are a lot of different dial designs within the 760 reference, which I think generally was in Breitling's Premier line (a line they have today in fact), if not exclusively.

The movement is probably a Venus 175. It would explain the script difference on the bridge... Breitling would have originally done it a certain way but if it was serviced after that supply was used up someone may have tried to recreate it since there'd be no other way to get it easily at that stage (as I reckon Venus probably actually applied the name for Breitling). And since it's a closed caseback normally only a watchmaker would really notice that detail anyway.

Also interesting that Venus movement came in a 30-minute and a 45-minute chronograph configuration (this being the latter). Another thing that in the modern era would have likely meant a different caliber number.

I think Breitling is the only major manufacturer that used Venus extensively. I'd heard of this company before, but for a very different reason. Venus sold their 175 machinery to the Tianjin Watch Factory in China, along with the rights to the 175. It's the basis of the Sea-Gull ST19, a Chinese watch that has gained a lot of popularity with collectors (as it's quite affordable for a mechanical chronograph). I had no idea about the Breitling connection until seeing this and looking it up though! Most of the rest of Venus I think got acquired by Valjoux, a chronograph competitor, which is now under ETA as part of the Swatch Group.

#2622 7 months ago

I used an upcoming job change as an excuse to get another watch. Moser is a brand I've been following for years, as I've always had a fondness for their fume dial approach. Originally a red dialed watch caught my eye from them but I already have a red-dialed Orient so I've since been exploring their other colors (they do blue in several different formats for example). So, I'd been scanning the second-hand market for a while and finally found one I was interested in.

On Star Trek because blue.

Moser on Star Trek (resized).jpgMoser on Star Trek (resized).jpg

#2629 7 months ago
Quoted from woody24:

I dug up the watchmakers remarks on the watch. From the detail you go in, I'd bet you'd find this info interesting. And he estimates it at 1942-1943.

That is very interesting, quite a detailed breakdown! I reckon his plan is either to just find replacement parts for the damaged portions or, if there are a number of them, maybe an entire donor movement so basically all the parts are at his disposal. When I messed around with servicing old watches I usually went for an entire donor movement if I needed more than, say, two parts, since it was usually a better price deal at that point to get an entire old movement (though a lot of times I was unsure if that donor had the same broken piece since if it's not in a running watch something was usually wrong with it). In fact, I had a watch I couldn't get running consistently and so when I went to the watchmaker I gave him the three donor movements I had so he could exploit them rather than have to find the parts himself.

The bent hairspring is likely the main reason you're off 3 minutes per day. Beat error is the difference between the clockwise swing and the counterclockwise swing of the balance (aka the difference between the "tick" and the "tock"). If the swings are equal the beat error is zero (note: true zero is extremely hard to achieve so there's actually an acceptable range for beat error, but we're talking fractions of a millisecond).

You can technically still have a fairly accurate watch with some beat error but if it's wide then I bet that's the main culprit because the balance is working very lopsided and I imagine the watch amplitude is pretty low due to the mainspring, and the beat error will start to impact the accuracy more at low amplitude.

Speaking of the mainspring, since it's from the 1940s I bet it still has a carbon steel mainspring in it and that's likely worn out. Watchmaker would swap that for a modern spring (it would just fit right into the original barrel) and those not only hold up far better but they are bent differently to provide more even distribution of power. With the old style your accuracy is impacted as the watch winds down (even if it wasn't worn out it would do this more so than a modern spring format).

A lot of the dirt is probably dried oils. Modern oils are synthetic and aren't prone to the same issues. Rust does indicate water ingress but if it's minor on the visible sections on restoration videos I've seen it generally isn't worse elsewhere. The crown and pushers are typically where you see the most rust damage since that's often where the water gets in.

All and all quite fascinating thank you for sharing the watchmaker's report!

#2648 7 months ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

I do enjoy watching these guys for affordable thrills:
https://www.youtube.com/@BensWatchClub
https://www.youtube.com/@JustOneMoreWatch
https://www.youtube.com/@JusttheWatch
Random Rob, Watchfinder & Co, Time Teller, Relative Time... lots of good channels for this hobby. And of course Dennis too!

My YouTube is a hodgepodge of content, from games and new release thoughts, to watch reviews and livestream discussions. I would suggest Half Past Blog though as another video source focused on affordable timepieces: https://www.youtube.com/@halfpastblog

I lean very mainstream on affordable watches. So, I usually suggest people look at brands like Citizen, Bulova, Hamilton, Tissot, Seiko (Seiko 5 at least), and Casio if they want to explore some very nice watches at approachable price points.

I like these for a couple reasons. First, if you really want to try them on first you have a reasonable chance of finding a place with them locally. Second, if you end up wanting to get rid of the watch these brands are well known and the sale will be quicker than on a microbrand. I think people are happier if they figure out what shapes, sizes, and such work for them first and then they can explore microbrands that meet those criteria from there. But everyone's mileage varies on that.

#2650 7 months ago
Quoted from zermeno68:

I’m in the market for a cheap Pocket Watch. Anyone here can give suggestions for a cheap unit? Which brand is a nice value, but looks “cool” at the same time?
Where I work I’m not allowed to have watches, but a pocket watch is.
I prefer to have a unit that I would not mind getting scratched.. hence, not wanting to spend too much money.

You willing to buy used? Tons of vintage units come into play, and even major luxury brands end up trading much less in the pocket watch space than the wristwatch space.

If you want a YouTube suggestion I've done some livestreams with the host of Pocket Watch Time, he doesn't just cover pocket watches but as the name suggests he collects them and you might get a lot of intel from there: https://www.youtube.com/@PocketWatchTime

I'd need to know what cheap means as a price-range to provide any meaningful suggestions. If you want new, the cheapest I'm aware of while still being mechanical (versus quartz) is Stührling which has several options from just under $100 ranging to about $250. One example: https://stuhrling.com/products/vintage-6053-hand-wind-47mm-skeleton

If cheap means you want under $1,000 then Tissot has some choices, such as: https://www.tissotwatches.com/en-us/t8614059903300.html

Tissot has quartz ones also, generally in the $300-$400 range. But as noted above you might want to explore vintage on a site like Chrono24. Pocket watches generally are extremely easy to service by watchmakers (the movements are large and simple, lots of parts out there, etc.).

1 month later
#2682 6 months ago

The Zenith Chronomaster Original is the one chronograph I own. Extremely wearable size and thickness, and easy to read thanks to the new way they handle the 1/10 second display.

1 week later
#2704 6 months ago
Quoted from BubbaK:

That did it. Thanks. Its a small click after unscrewing the crown, then I can wind it. This hasn't been wound for 30+ years.. I can't seem to find a way to change the date without going 24hrs on the dial.

Those Vostok movements don't have a quick-set date so there's no position for the crown to rapidly move it. However, if I recall those movements do allow you to cheat a little bit. If you advance the hands, move the date to the next date (past midnight) then go backwards to about 8 pm, when you go forwards past midnight again it should move forward once more (it won't move the date backwards when you go back in time).

That's how I handled mine when I owned one.

It sounds like you figured out how to wind it. The Vostok crowns when they are unscrewed from the case "wobble" and feel loose (to many who are familiar with mechanical watches they might think it's broken). This is part of the design, so winding it sometimes requires you to hold the crown just right so the stem can properly catch and wind the mainspring.

They are very odd watches compared to the Swiss and Japanese movements.

#2707 6 months ago
Quoted from BubbaK:

Thanks.. I'll give it a try. After unscrewing the crown, the shaft is very sloppy. I was worried about going backwards with the movement. Another thing I noticed, and maybe I screwed up... To unscrew the crown, its counter clockwise. I wound the clock spring, clockwise. To set the time, its counter clockwise to go forward. I noticed to wind the clock, I can go either direction. Which direction is correct?

Yes, the sloppy shaft is proper for Vostok movements. I don't know of any other brand that way but they make their own movements and it's just the way they do them.

Only one winding direction will actually wind the mainspring. The other direction might make a sound but you won't actually put wind in the watch, but going backwards won't damage anything. Same with setting the time, you can go forwards or backwards and it won't hurt anything.

Most watches with quick-set dates will have a "danger zone" where you aren't supposed to use the quick-set feature because of how the watch stores up power to quickly move the date. But that issue doesn't exist with the Vostok movements.

1 month later
#2760 4 months ago
Quoted from woody24:

Anyone else fix up or service watches? I've been collecting gear this year to start trying to fix and work on watches. Figured there's gotta be some people on this forum.

I did some during the pandemic. I would get cheap, broken watches on eBay and try to fix them. I should have started with working ones... and ones with higher quality movements that were easier to service. I made it a lot harder on myself than I could have. So, a lot were failures. I did get a few fixed up though.

#2764 4 months ago

If nothing else I found the process deeply helpful for learning the names of the internal parts and several common ways they connect to each other. It is nice to be able to look at most movements now and understand what all the pieces are doing and what they are called.

1 week later
#2782 4 months ago

Rolex is a tricky one for me as a hobbyist. Like most, it was the one luxury brand I knew and thus where my interest started.

On the negative side the popularity makes them harder to get than they should be (and there is something strange about a company that makes 1.2 million watches a year still failing to meet demand and for those items to still be coveted as a luxury good). Because a lot of non-collectors get them some feel there is a stigma to wearing them (if flashy/braggy people get them and wear them akin to going around in a shirt that has Gucci on it in 70pt font will people think I am trying to flex for wearing one too?). And of course as the brand popularity has gone up so has the price, meaning other watches with better finishing, more complications, and so forth are available for the same money. This doesn't even touch on the segment of collectors who only get Rolex and can often seem like they are more concerned with not losing money (or "investing") than truly caring about watch design and features.

But, I find one needs to look at all that and not lose sight of the positives. Rolex has not jacked their retail pricing up like some other brands to suddenly gouge (price increases have happened but if you look over at what Richemont has done with JLC it is night and day). They stay away from most complications but their movements are extremely accurate and robust (who else advertises 10-year service intervals on their watches? I only know of Oris and only for their new in-house movement). They wear well (to date Rolex has been the best bracelet experience I have found to exist), and are classically attractive. New models always look like their predecessors so you can always tell what watch line you are in quickly (and it gives you a lot of choice if shopping used and diving into their older models and knowing it isn't going to dramatically change the watch's style).

So, for me I do think they get over-hyped for a lot of the "wrong" reasons but they honestly make a really nice watch. So if you like the designs and want something solid and hardy then I think it is a good brand to look towards. If you are into complications and movement finishing, or bold design, you need to be exploring other companies.

3 weeks later
#2829 3 months ago

Happy New Year. Added another dress watch this week. Parmigiani Fleurier, newer brand (formed in the 1990s) that is getting a lot of attention for their current line of Tonda PF watches (integrated bracelet format) but historically did a lot of dress pieces.
PXL_20240103_140122561.jpgPXL_20240103_140122561.jpg

1 month later
13
#2878 54 days ago

Got a new watch today, one of Citizen's high-accuracy quartz models.

PXL_20240223_222657783.jpgPXL_20240223_222657783.jpg

1 week later
#2883 47 days ago
Quoted from NicoVolta:

Was planning to finally buy a Grand Seiko… but had a massive change of opinion after years of watching YouTube videos and print catalogs.
In person, GS is technically superior to Rolex, no question. But the designs leave me cold like a set of ultra-sharp steak knives in a drawer. Lack of lume also negatively affects visibility… so it seems I’m pretty firmly in the sporty/dressy/but not too fussy category.

Did you look at any of the GS sport collection? I've not handled those but I do believe they have lume. I haven't really explored them because they look a bit different than the other lines and I actually don't care for the look on those models but they do feel more sporty than things like the heritage line (my favorite).

Not sure if the bracelets are any better. My GS bracelet was a pretty big let-down.

#2885 47 days ago
Quoted from wdbthree:

Happen to be wearing my favorite today. Added to the collection to celebrate 20th wedding anniversary and 25th work anniversary. Had had my eye on this one for a looong time. Love the digital/analog combo. And the red accent in the date and reserve just pop.

Very cool. Lange may be my favorite brand. I like almost everything they do.

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