Pinball Value Calculations

(Topic ID: 210563)

Pinball Value Calculations


By brianmcculloh

5 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Whysnow
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    Screen Shot 2018-02-23 at 9.13.48 AM (resized).png

    #1 5 months ago

    I just have a question about how Pinside values the various pinball machines. I noticed that all 3 of the pinball machines I've purchased have had a fixed value for over a year here on Pinside, never fluctuating despite there being lots of market activity on each one of them. Do the values get updated as more machines process through the market, or are they pretty much just set and never change? I know these values are merely guides, but since they're there I'm curious how they work. Thanks for any insight!

    #2 5 months ago

    Dont take them to seriously as alot can determine price of a pin .... i find pinside prices to b on the high side compared to real world prices.

    #3 5 months ago

    I think that Robin is the only one that can really answer how often and to what degree those values change.

    I also think that you are holding on to those values a bit strongly. They really don't mean a damn thing.

    #4 5 months ago

    The prices appearing on the game's profile are based on ads for games that get marked as sold in the marketplace.

    #5 5 months ago

    It would be nice if the algorithm was made public, though.

    I'd love to see an interactive website like KBB somewhere with fields for certain mods that are tied to the sale price, so you can really see what a certain mod does to the resale price of a pin. You know, similar to how most home improvements don't add the full value of their cost to the house.

    So for example, I see people routinely discount the full $400 for a ColorDMD if you want it removed and replaced with the old DMD. On the other hand I personally subtract about $300 if I see a machine with an LED "Skittles treatment" since I'll have to replace most if not all of the LEDs since I only use white for GI. What does having a CPR playfield do to the price on average?

    Then you could theoretically plug in your machine and the mods you had and get a fair estimate of value.

    #6 5 months ago

    My wife tells me they are all worthless.

    #7 5 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    It would be nice if the algorithm was made public, though.
    I'd love to see an interactive website like KBB somewhere with fields for certain mods that are tied to the sale price, so you can really see what a certain mod does to the resale price of a pin. You know, similar to how most home improvements don't add the full value of their cost to the house.
    So for example, I see people routinely discount the full $400 for a ColorDMD if you want it removed and replaced with the old DMD. On the other hand I personally subtract about $300 if I see a machine with an LED "Skittles treatment" since I'll have to replace most if not all of the LEDs since I only use white for GI. What does having a CPR playfield do to the price on average?
    Then you could theoretically plug in your machine and the mods you had and get a fair estimate of value.

    It's just an estimated value/range to use as a starting point.

    Mods come and go.

    LEDs are a personal preference.

    Depending on the game, sometimes a CPR playfield bumps up the value, sometimes not. Some games have a price ceiling, regardless of condition.

    #8 5 months ago
    Quoted from Prefect:

    My wife tells me they are all worthless.

    Better than her telling you you're worthless, eh?

    #9 5 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    It's just an estimated value/range to use as a starting point.
    Mods come and go.
    LEDs are a personal preference.
    Depending on the game, sometimes a CPR playfield bumps up the value, sometimes not. Some games have a price ceiling, regardless of condition.

    Probably, but we'd have a better idea with data, right? I think the same could be said - personal preference - about most home upgrades.

    Curious though, what CPR playfield hasn't bumped the price on a machine? My assumption is that a CPR replaces a worn playfield, though I imagine someone must have replaced a relatively pristine playfield with a CPR. Even that seems like it would increase the value because of the new clear.

    #10 5 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    It would be nice if the algorithm was made public, though. I'd love to see an interactive website like KBB somewhere with fields for certain mods that are tied to the sale price, so you can really see what a certain mod does to the resale price of a pin. You know, similar to how most home improvements don't add the full value of their cost to the house. So for example, I see people routinely discount the full $400 for a ColorDMD if you want it removed and replaced with the old DMD. On the other hand I personally subtract about $300 if I see a machine with an LED "Skittles treatment" since I'll have to replace most if not all of the LEDs since I only use white for GI. What does having a CPR playfield do to the price on average?
    Then you could theoretically plug in your machine and the mods you had and get a fair estimate of value.

    I like the concept, but I doubt there are enough pinball machines being sold to make that analysis (I was admittedly a history major and have very poor math skills, so I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this!).

    Any machine that sells will have variables like other mods installed and condition of the playfield, boards, and cab, that make it hard to pick out what affect an individual mod has on the sale price. If enough of each title were selling each year you could use statistical analysis to make a meaningful assessment about the market value of individual mods. As is done with existing homes, which have the same problem of many variables, but have the benefit of millions of sales per year providing lots of data to work with. But given the tiny size of the pinball marketplace, I think we're mostly stuck with gut-feeling assessments based on anecdotal evidence.

    ColorDMD seems like a unique case, since you can move it game to game and it seems to be universally respected. So even with limited data I'd feel pretty safe saying ColorDMD keeps 80%+ of its value on resale. Much harder to say with other mods.

    #11 5 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    Curious though, what CPR playfield hasn't bumped the price on a machine? My assumption is that a CPR replaces a worn playfield, though I imagine someone must have replaced a relatively pristine playfield with a CPR. Even that seems like it would increase the value because of the new clear.

    Mainly older games that typically sell below $1500 or so. Space Shuttle, Joker Poker, EK, F-14, Bally Star Trek, etc

    Putting in a brand new $800 playfield does not automatically increase the value of the game by $800.

    #12 5 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    The prices appearing on the game's profile are based on ads for games that get marked as sold in the marketplace.

    Is this calculated from all sales or is there a look back period? As pinside gets older and there is more sales data it's neat to see that a pin sold for $500 10 years ago but it's not that helpful in determining current value. A nice feature would be the ability to set a begin date like 1 year or 18 months back and get values based on that date range. If the values on the game pages are calculated periodically and stored in a database this could be tough but if they are calculated on the fly when the page loads it doesn't seem like that tough of a filter to write.

    #13 5 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Mainly older games that typically sell below $1500 or so. Space Shuttle, Joker Poker, EK, F-14, Bally Star Trek, etc
    Putting in a brand new $800 playfield does not automatically increase the value of the game by $800.

    Oh, I see what you're saying. I think we agree - a CPR playfield increases the value over a roached playfield, but generally doesn't capture the cost of even installing it since a playfield swap is so time consuming.

    #14 5 months ago

    I can't even find an original joker poker that cheap these days!

    #15 5 months ago
    Quoted from latenite04:

    Is this calculated from all sales or is there a look back period? As pinside gets older and there is more sales data it's neat to see that a pin sold for $500 10 years ago but it's not that helpful in determining current value. A nice feature would be the ability to set a begin date like 1 year or 18 months back and get values based on that date range. If the values on the game pages are calculated periodically and stored in a database this could be tough but if they are calculated on the fly when the page loads it doesn't seem like that tough of a filter to write.

    This is getting closer to the point of my original question. I'm not saying I even care about the values at all - I just want to know how they work. I had originally thought they were automatically generated as a mean of the marketplace sales of the machines, but seeing as how there have been several machines sold at various costs over the past year, and the value hasn't changed at all, it makes me think there is some sort of fixed value in place instead. Just curious guys... just curious, it's not that deep

    #16 5 months ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    Oh, I see what you're saying. I think we agree - a CPR playfield increases the value over a roached playfield, but generally doesn't capture the cost of even installing it since a playfield swap is so time consuming.

    Exactly. It usually ends up being a labor of love rather than a monetary increase in value.

    However, for high-value popular titles, a proper high-end restore to like-new condition (such as a HEP restoration) can drastically increase the value well over the price of a nice original, simply because it costs so much to actually do that begin with.

    #17 5 months ago
    Quoted from brianmcculloh:

    This is getting closer to the point of my original question. I'm not saying I even care about the values at all - I just want to know how they work. I had originally thought they were automatically generated as a mean of the marketplace sales of the machines, but seeing as how there have been several machines sold at various costs over the past year, and the value hasn't changed at all, it makes me think there is some sort of fixed value in place instead. Just curious guys... just curious, it's not that deep

    You'll have to ask Robin about specifics.

    #18 5 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    You'll have to ask Robin about specifics.

    Thanks, I appreciate the info!

    #19 5 months ago

    How about adding a total to the collection page so you can see how much your entire collection is worth based upon Pinside averages.

    Now that would be awesome!

    #20 5 months ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    Now that would be awesome!

    Or depressing.

    #21 5 months ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    How about adding a total to the collection page so you can see how much your entire collection is worth based upon Pinside averages.

    Now that would be awesome!

    Don't ever let your wife see your collection page then...

    #22 5 months ago

    Would be great to know how pinside calculates market values from sales. I always assumed it's just an average, so a major project up to a HEP restore get lumped together.
    Pinside is my guide to supposedly accurate pricing; as i'm sure it is for most people.

    #23 5 months ago
    Quoted from brenna98:

    Pinside is my guide to supposedly accurate pricing; as i'm sure it is for most people.

    Do people actually use the Pinside-supplied value for games much? I guess I did when I first started using the site, but now I just search for old sales to see what people are asking (and paying).

    #24 5 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Do people actually use the Pinside-supplied value for games much?

    Yes. And according to pinside---

    Sorcerer is $1390 - $1610

    #25 5 months ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Yes. And according to pinside---
    Sorcerer is $1390 - $1610

    To think we gave that poor sap so much grief when he was actually priced below market ...

    #26 5 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Do people actually use the Pinside-supplied value for games much?

    Pinside likely has the most "trusted" values. And, yes I frequently look at sales history to view both the price and condition to gauge value.
    I have not bought a Mr. Pinball book in a couple years because they seem on the lower side of value. Plus Mr. pinball clasified don't seem to be the go-to place for sales anymore.
    Ebay might be a good reference if you search for "Sold" listings and not the crazy high "free business advertising" listings.
    Craigslist has been my most successful buying/sales outlet; maybe 60/40 with pinside. But there is no way to track the listed price and sold price.

    #27 5 months ago

    Just look at the Boston Pinball Repair site.

    http://www.bostonpinball.biz

    It's updated every 3 months or so and is a good starting point for historical sold listings.

    You can go a step further and average that data with the Pinside data to get an even better picture.

    Screen Shot 2018-02-23 at 9.13.48 AM (resized).png

    #28 5 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Just look at the Boston Pinball Repair site.
    http://www.bostonpinball.biz
    It's updated every 3 months or so and is a good starting point for historical sold listings.
    You can go a step further and average that data with the Pinside data to get an even better picture.

    that site is based off ebay sales. It is artificially high in most cases. Nice to use, but important to know its issues also

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 79.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 799.00
    Hardware
    CPR Playfields
    $ 999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 29.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    € 8.10
    Flipper Parts
    Buthamburg
    $ 38.00
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 210.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    CzTV Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 199.99
    $ 1,000.00
    $ 14.95
    Playfield - Other
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 40.00
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 119.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 99.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 99.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 63.00
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 27.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    € 45.00
    Boards
    FLIPPROJETS

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside