Agreed.

There may be a negative view toward Pinside, but this site is a Marketing managers’s dream. Opinions, often backed by polls and well thought out points... even if you have to sift through with a strainer.

Emotions usually run high because (IMO) there’s a rapid escalation of pricing for new niche titles that are pricing out the core audience that keep their lights on. The pulse of the core audience lies here.

Amongst other things, Pinside probably can take at least a partial credit for ending the photoshop era at Stern and maybe even the lighting the spark that created TNA as a real production game.

Between the bickering and whatnot is real opinions from real buyers that have thousands of dollars to chuck at these manufacturers. To ignore or dismiss is penny-wise, pound foolish.

I hear what you are saying Iceman but just look at the interaction with Zombie Yeti in the Primus thread and you will see why a lot of creators do not come on here. Outside of Spooky who a variety of Pinsiders have adopted as their cause celebre, people crap on Stern, American Pinball, Multimorphic, etc all the time. People crapped on Auric for his work on Alien, they crap on people making mods, stadium lighting, everything. I get that we are all passionate about a niche hobby but I think a variety of folks have the attitude that they are owed something or are entitled to something.

Reading the Beatles thread has been hilarious. People were so disappointed in it being a retheme and that it did not live up to the stature of the Beatles. It was like Stern went and took a dump on these folks dead grandma. It is what it is. Buy, don’t buy. That is up to the individual. But people take this way to personally. I am excited about a Jaws pin but if it does not interest me when it comes out, no big deal. Not long to lose sleep over it.

Not disagreeing with you at all. I do think that some of the more zealous hyper posters and personalities though take things too far though sometimes and drive people away. As an outsider looking in, I think that these folks feel entitled to things, which makes me shake my head. There are a few that I have seen that are like this in pretty much all threads, but then you have others that jus pop up in certain threads.

Whether the manufactures are posting or not, it is obvious that they pay attention. I would assume in some cases that companies want to control their own marketing and messaging, so that is why you are seeing things like the Stern of the Union communications. It makes sense, although I am sure that I will rankle some.

As for trends, I think we will see the following:

Most themes will be based on properties that are 30-50 years old to target the pinball market with disposable income (not a knock, just a matching of things that remind people of their childhood through early adulthood). This 41 year old is begging for Jaws!

Further market segmentation (standard editions and higher cost vanity pins). I think you are finally going to see people test the waters on higher cost limited runs to cater to the higher end market.

Higher focus on sound and light shows. The past few years, companies focused on artwork. I think sound and lights will be next because those can be addresses relatively inexpensively but brings more value and profits.

A move away from some of the more complex “math chess” rule sets to something a littl more approachable.

Stern using another legacy design as a basis for a new game or re-release.

Deep Root represents a wild card. I think with just the sheer amount of talent that they have that the odds of something interesting coming out of them is high. Interesting good or interesting meh remains to be seen.

Most definitely. Outrage culture, rush to judgment, and lack of critical thinking prevail. Everybody is trying to have a hot take or be provocative.

Random responses to you in no particular order:

David Thiel is a huge plus. Can’t wait to see what he does.

Lyman rules! Dwight’s coding on the other hand does not do anything for me.

I am in for a True LE Jaws or Infinity War/Gauntlet pin. Cost would not be much of a consideration for these two themes if there was differentiation.

I know JPOP is a lightning rod but as a designer/ creative director/ whatever he is, nobody has come close to the emotion he evokes in pinball. If somebody can harness and focus him, or just use him as an idea engine, I think you will truly see some innovative pinball. Imagine something like Theatre of Magic with a Lyman-type modern rule set. That would be killer.

I drained that thread after it started going south, so I dunno how bad it got, but he made the mistake of being overly defensive and attacking people. Which is silly, because no one had anything but good things to say about his efforts, and defending yet another reskin of Woah Nellie seems like a dumb hill to die on. Art good, game boring, is what it is.

As you noted I took plenty of abuse in the Alien thread, but you know what? People had good points. I blocked the ones who got really personal and dickish, but if you said the game was more Photoshoppy that you had hoped for I certainly can't argue, it's more than I wanted too. Listening to people doesn't hurt, it's smart. One dude being a dick is one thing, a thread full of similar opinions means pay attention. Lots of companies pay for that kind of research! Pay attention, don't make the same mistake next time if you can help it.

If people aren't excited that you're recycling a layout that was never particularly popular to begin with, and had already been through the re-use cycle before it's not that Pinside is full of assholes, it's that people actually care about the gameplay. This isn't a gig poster to hang on your wall, it's a really expensive game, that people care about playing, and not just looking at. Gameplay matters, good to be reminded of that.

And that leads me to what I hope the trend is: listening to what people want instead of just looking at the buzzwords. Like, yes, we want hand drawn art, it gets brought up all the time. But you can't stick it on a turd and expect people to be excited, the game still matters. Most people here would rather own a game with lame art that played fantastic (ACDC) than a game that was gorgeous and useless to play (Magic Girl).

If your attitude is "look at these entitled jerks who expect quality and thoughtfulness when they spend nine thousand dollars on a game" then maybe the problem isn't Pinside, it's you.

In 2019, WNBJM and Spiderman home edition will show their layouts have much more staying power than most pinsiders ever imagined.

And due to the overwhelming positive response to the Beatles, that Frank Sinatra pin may actually become a reality.

1. We lose one more pin mfr, we gain one.
2. More short runs by Stern.
3. No Kapow runs.
4. More unique layouts and rules by new designers.
5. Overall, better build quality.
6. Higher prices.

2019 will be the last year of licensed themes from 40- 50 years ago, as that fad is nearing the end of it's lifespan.

Come 2020, pinball takes a big leap forward and most themes are from the '90s.

American Pinball does a great job of interacting on here. The thread is pretty positive too. Its a good example of how manufacturers can deal with pinside. There is constructive criticism and some immature petulant behavior but they stay above it. It would be nice to see DR and JJP do the same. (not like Homepin)

For some reason, you're not making it sound any better.

Funny!

I took my 96 year old mother to Costco today and when we came out there was a Smart car parked next to mine.

Mom- "What is that?!" Me-"some piece of shit..."

Then some dude in a Suburban yelled at an asian lady that was about to back into his truck. Ah Costco.....

WNBJM is the probably the FARThest thing from a so called “turd”, in my pincyclopedia.
Pretty damn harsh really Aurich.

I’d go so far as to say that my most favorite Sasquatch and his bespectacled handler did a FANTASTIC job turning their throwback gobble-hole-manual-ball-liftin’ passion project into a more relatable game for those unfamiliar with such old EM devices.

At TPF 15’ it was pretty much all I played.
And while I did miss those two classic woodrail features from the original homebrew, it was still the same addicting gameplay I fell in love with a few years before.

Sure I’ll admit it’s still a fairly simple layout by today’s standards, but, easy it definitely wasn’t.

Getting to Thumpin’ Time was always a rush and the funny callouts mixed with the custom music was perfectly balanced.
I especially loved the fast right orbit shot upper rollover star to cue up the old cartoon flyover soundbite.

PBRCC was a bit different for me as I didn’t enjoy much of the new callouts/sounds. Even though Red Fang (as a band) was a decent fit, it still missed the mark even though it still played like WNBJM.

Now with the Primus re-re-theme, this version (from what I’ve seen so far,) is right up my jubilant late 80’s/early 90’s wheelhouse.
Great music, even better art, classic solid state sounds, what’s not to love?!?
Oh yeah, the price...
Honestly that’s the ONLY sticking point for me and probably most others in this whole thing.

To quote Chris Rock’s Cheap Pete character:
Good LORD ____ that’s a lotta money!

(Why no HD glass for that price Gary/Les?)

But as a lifelong Primus fan finally seeing this game come out in the flesh, I’ll go ahead and put my money where my mouth is.
If someone wants my decently loaded GBP for $6K I’ll be happy to pony up the rest for a 1 of 108 Primus Pinball!

Now,
If they could only finish what the original owners were asking for, to update the original WNBJM code (and all future incarnations) to allow a regular DMD to be used in conjunction with the microscopic one, I’d be more inclined to open my wallet for said Primus, and any other future themes this NON-TURD layout might become.

At the very least bring back the sweet lower crate!

True that!

It gets higher with each rendition of this playfield. Of course for me this is the better theme of them all.

I suppose if they were to have used a different basic EM design like some you might have played here, and added expensive features they used in the 60s like drop targets or spinners or even that always loved swinging target, then we would be looking at a $15,000 game.

Interesting thread.

Got me to thinking with games we know are coming. Rumors of games that are coming.

I wonder what tech support will be like in 2019 ?

Keep the trends coming, please.

LTG : )

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CTG : P

2019 - JJP announces a new title.

2020 - Said JJP title is released.

Seriously, they do that in 2019, I'll do an about face and change my tune. And probably get drunk and buy one. Jumping head first into the cement pond.

They could even use a cheaper to build, older layout like Tron's or something.

pinside can be the the equivalent of a cannulated cow and threads like this act as the cannula...

Still want more creativity from Stern in games and more in them. I feel Iron Maiden could have had more in it like Metallica which I enjoyed the hammer, Sparky, and cross drop targets. I feel Maiden is all shots which is fine but missing stuff. I want the details of a JJP in a Stern flow pin.

In 2019 they release a "Just Say No" pinball machine and we all stop drinking and smoking dope.

The year of the "cart wars."

Entire year of people adding machines to their carts and posting pics of them.

You're over-reading that part, I wasn't calling Woah Nellie a turd, it's fine for what it is. Simple and fun, nothing wrong with simple and fun. Unless you want to charge over $8000 for it, then that gets into wrong in my book, but hey, your money.

Put it this way though, was it so amazing and people loved it so much that they had to make 3 different versions of it just to satisfy the demand?

If you thought I was calling Magic Girl a turd, well, you'd be right. ZY drew up some pretty art, and it couldn't save the game from being a trash fire.

If they reskin WOZ to Willy Wonka, then yes.

A new game? No way.

I'm guessing three different versions because after the initial run, they had a bunch of blank playfields and other parts left over.

Well then, we could both be right, if they announce the game in Nov/Dec 2019!

2019 will be the "Year of the Original Theme".

Steve Ritchie, Scott's next game, stuff from Deeproot.

Question is will people buy them?

Just want to say The Hobbits new code is a great example of what can be achieved when a developer listens to constructive criticism from pinsiders.

I hope in 2019 that we see more of this.

I know a lot of people, including myself, don't care for any of the licensed themes they come up with, so why not?

I'm long over having my living room cluttered with antiquated movie, TV, and band memorabilia.

Because of what they have showed lately, I don't think they will ever come up with another licensed themed game I'll even want to play more than once, let alone own. Mostly because it's shit I'm not into or haven't been for years.

So yeah, more original themes, but I'm not holding my breath they won't find a way to screw that up too. #monkeygate

DR drops 9 game titles shipping only 2 with numbers above 500 units. Stern drops there 3+1kapow, two from Spooky, one from AP...prices will hold or dip.
JJP will not ship a new title in 2019 but will show a new game.
Resell prices will dip and runs of new games will be much lower. Short runs will be the new normal (under 2k units).
Great time to be in pinball and manufacturers will be stepping up to get your money...some with innovation some appealing to your wallet.

I will buy SRs new game.

Goodbye 80’s, you were fun to be around at all the parties. Hello 90’s, did anything interesting happen on your watch?

Trending up for 2019 are nib prices. Trending sideways, downward and every which way but up are used pinball machines.

With the latest prices for a BeatlesWitch, the only licensor who could afford to reskin and sell Nellie next is Supreme. Look for Supreme2 from Stern and branded a PowKapow release. It will come in three models. Supreme2 for $25k, MuchoSupreme2 with red pin striping for $50k and the UltraSupreme2 which includes a home visit from Nordman who makes you a steak dinner for $150k.

Of course nobody carries that much money around, so rather than sending money to distributor, you must go to the bank and take out a loan. When pinheads complain about the new pricing model, Stern’s design team will get on Pinside and call everybody stupid for criticizing their effort, because employees are working so hard. What a joke, nobody cares how hard they work, we expect results! and to not have to pay $150k for a pin that is worth $4k.