Most pinball games make zero sense to most people. Even the simpler games are confusing for most. That's why the most popular games continue to be games like MM, AFM, and MB...they have an obvious "dummy" feature that anyone can accomplish and feel good about, and then when they start to figure out the rules, it's relatively easy to understand.

Way back in the "original" Xbox era, my neighbor's kid...I think he was 8 or 9...he was playing Halo and all of the "modern" games. He'd come over to play my arcade games, and just could not wrap his brain around Dig Dug. He would complain that it's SOOO HARD!!!

The very concept of video games to kids has been completely different for a while than it was to us. Pinball was a "3 ball & Game Over" game, which inspired first generation of video games that had "3 lives & Game Over". The concept of 3 lives & Game Over isn't something kids today understand. Their games are generally never ending non-death type of experiences...or even if there is death, you can continue. Just the very concept of trying to accomplish a bunch of things in a finite game like pinball is completely foreign to them.

That's for sure! I cannot even remotely wrap my head around Fortnite...and I'm a gamer! lol

If a ball is being held by a scoop or lock, there is ALWAYS a flasher & sound effect to let you know the ball is coming back. A countdown would be really patronizing and boring. Once you see a ball shoot out of a scoop once with a flasher/sound effect, that's the tutorial. You'll know from now on.

This literally happens when adults come over and play. My parents start a 4 player game and then leave after ball 1.

I’m not overly familiar with Munsters, but every game I can think of that holds the ball has some kind of “ramp up” sound & flasher effect to warn you that the ball is coming…and then a “fire” sound as the ball kicks out.

A video game has so many things that can be altered to change difficulty. Pinball design is locked in & physically cannot be changed. If you make a game with super wide ramps, that better specifically be a kids/family game - because a game that’s too easy will not be popular with pinball players/buyers. There are plenty of 90s games that are easy with wide ramps. They’re the cheap games now.

The reason games like MM, MB, and AFM are so beloved is they have perfect pinball designs. A main toy that ANYONE can hit and blow up (Castle, Frank, UFO). Ramps & shots aren’t too wide or too tight. They all feel fair. Casuals can have a great time, and then there’s challenge and nuance for the Pros.

Heres the issue with a game like Turtles. When the designer doesn't put a satisfying interactive mech on the playfield (The van is a ball lock, Krang isn't interactive, and the Glider is a diverter), the designer is likely to compensate with code/rules to give the player something to do. Sometimes they go really complex. Dwight usually does this (TMNT, GOT, SW). He makes rules he thinks are interesting...but truthfully are confusing to a large chunk of players.

I think Elwin is doing the best "dance" right now. He's making games that are pretty damn hard & really deep...but - they have cool features that anyone can figure out, like a 90's B/W game. Jurassic Park has the car you can hit, which is satisfying even if you don't understand the rules behind it. The raptor pit is close to the flippers. The T-Rex clearly lowers on the ramp and the game says "FEED THE T-REX!". My 2 year old daughter actually shot the ball right into the T-Rex's mouth (she calls it "Doggie" lol). Godzilla has a big honking' building right in the middle...pretty much the MM Castle concept - a big cool thing you can't miss...you instinctively shoot for it even if you know nothing. It also has Mecha Godzilla right by the flippers...also a pretty easy thing for casuals to hit.

Wow...c'mon, people aren't THAT stupid.

This would be worse than normal gameplay, because now you're assuming a newb can AIM specifically at ONE thing. At least during a normal game, a player can accidentally hit something that has some feedback.

If someone is this clueless about what to do in pinball, I don't think a tutorial like this would even help. They wouldn't pay attention to the voices, lights, or audio anymore than they would on games how they currently are.

It's OK that some people don't like pinball. It's not for everyone, and that's OK. You're either drawn to it, or not. There are ways to make games more understandable, but no reason to dumb it down to training wheels.

Not everyone gets everything...and that's OK. That being said, I think someone who knows NOTHING about pinball knows what a "ramp" is. It's literally a ramp.

I don't play PC games because I hate the walls of tiny text everywhere....but they still make PC games like that, so clearly some people are cool with it. I play Nintendo/console games because I prefer the aesthetic. Different products appeal to different people.

If they don't know what a "ramp" is, then I don't think any amount of hand holding is going to help.

...and maybe pinball is just not for those people.

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Your story really has nothing to do with what I said. I'm talking about new players looking at a machine and somehow not knowing what "ramp" means. You know what a ramp is. I'll give you scoop...that's a pinball term like VUK that no new player is going to understand. Games have tried to use different terms for scoops, though. Addams family says "Shoot the Electric Chair", because the electric chair is above the scoop. Family Guy says "Shoot the TV", because artwork of a TV is in front of the scoop.

Baseball is child abuse. That's the extent of my thoughts about baseball...lol. Baseball is completely irrelevant to pinball....although here's how I can make it relevant to this discussion. I hate baseball. Should baseball change something about itself to make someone like me like it? Of course not. It's OK that I think it's boring trash. I do other things with my time besides trying to bend baseball to my tastes.

Oh please, this isn't gatekeeping. Anyone can buy or play pinball. This is my OPINION that a tutorial doesn't really help someone who doesn't understand or like pinball enough to learn organically. If we want to look at video game analogies, look at NES games. They didn't hold your hand, but games with great design allowed you to learn through gameplay. For some - it was too hard and they walked away...for others they kept playing and playing and learning and improving. Pinball isn't that different than that, really. Stern games have tutorials on the LCD now. So, I mean...they're there. It's not an interactive tutorial...but it's information that shows how to start modes, multiballs, explains rules, etc.

Some 90's games had experimented with "Novice" modes to make games easier for new players. Judge Dredd had a Supergame mode that just gives a player 3 minutes of multiball, so they don't have to worry about draining for a while. Not sure if these novice modes ever really moved the needle with new players. I'm guessing most didn't even realize they were options.

I forgot to mention this earlier. Gary Stern thought pinball was getting too deep & confusing for people, and that's what led to the "simpler era" of Stern games in 2010. We had Iron Man, Tron, Avatar, BBH, Rolling Stones...these games didn't even have traditional modes like most pins had. There were "ladders" to be collected based on starting various scoring or multiball events, and a super obvious bash toy to hit. Iron Man had the Iron Monger front and center, Tron had the spinning disc, Avatar had at the giant AMP suit, Stones had Mick-on-a-stick, and BBH had the deer moving around.

A newb could walk up to Iron Man and see that Iron Monger lowers when you start. JARVIS says "Spell MONGER to battle the Iron Monger". Boom, easy to understand goal. Whiplash is an easy bank of targets to hit...a few hits starts his multiball. War Machine is a tighter shot, so a newb probably won't hit it on purpose...but that's a challenge for better players who walk up.

These games were HATED by pinball players when they came out. They were called "cheap & shallow". Thankfully, people realized they're super fun & most of them became really popular later. I'm not sure if there's any data about casual players actually enjoying the simplicity more or not....but it seems that the market has spoken in its desire for deeper games, as modes & depth made a comeback after that era.

Pinball is like a fighting game, platform, and shmup rolled up into one! Those have all kind of become niche genres, too. Some things just are what they are. There's always a base of people who really enjoy these things.

Did you try ARMS? I loved fighters in the 90s (Capcom fighters, MK, Virtua Fighter, Soul Caliber, etc), but totally dropped out when the scene became super hardcore....ARMS was my favorite fighter since the 90s. It has amazing characters, animation, memorable music, and really fresh and new mechanics and concepts. I think people thought it was just a dopey Mii Sports or 1-2-Switch gimmick, but it's a tight & deep fighter....really clever & satisfying. It's weird, so it takes some practice to learn, but once you get the hang of it, it's so good. Best motion control fighting game ever...although I don't know if any others really exist lol.

All Dwight games. I consider myself a “pinball person” who picks up on all the A/V cues, rules & nuance….I have no idea what’s going on in Dwight’s recent games. I got to “Winter is Coming” in GOT…absolutely no idea how I did it. I kept the shots flowing until it just happened.

Then again, GOT is Eskaybee ’s favorite…he knows the rules inside & out, so - just like video games & movies, there are different types of pinball & you can’t please everyone.

People have been saying this since the 80s....and they weren't entirely wrong. Video games DID replace pinball for the most part in the arcade, and the arcade was really the only logical place for a pinball machine to be. 3 lives replaced 3 balls. However, pinball had something going for it: It can't be replicated or replaced. It is what it is, and that's actually a good thing for pinball staying alive. There's no real reason that pinball is still being made today...but, it is and it's doing really well for the few companies that understand how to manufacture. Now - it's never going to be huge...but it will always survive as a niche, and it will always have an allure that will always bring in just enough new people to enjoy it. If all of our games get sold cheap in the future - SOMEONE is gonna buy them an enjoy them. They're not going to end up in the dump.

In a loud arcade, you're not going to hear anything anyway lol

If you're playing at home, you'll figure it out.

How did Addams Family become so popular? The big gimmick was Thing grabbing the ball, and it's not even remotely obvious what to do to make it happen...but people wanted to see it happen, so they kept playing and figured it out. Some people will want to keep trying so they can learn, and others won't. I truly don't think dumbing it down will make it any more interesting or fun for people who just don't have that spark for pinball. That being said - the design philosophy of B/W is usually a guarantee casuals will have fun. Everyone sees the castle in MM and can shoot it a few times and blow it up.

I think those games would be perfect for you - AND you'd understand what's going on. They're really intuitive and don't really have any brain-breaking math-chess rules.

Why wait for a $1k NGG when you can have mine RIGHT NOW for $10k!?!?!

To people like me, EMs are simple to the point of "what's even the point?". They're static, slow, and boring. Music, sound FX, voices, light shows, interactive mechs go a long way to make it more of a magical interactive experience. An EM is just like...a slab of wood with holes that makes doorbell sounds. . It's probably because I'm a child of the 80s who grew up with video games, so music & sound is an essential part of a game. I can't play Fortnite or Rocket League because there's no music...but I LOOOOOVE Splatoon! Amazing music that accentuates the gameplay!

I love TNA, which is kind of like an EM...but the music, lights, and rules really suck me in & makes for an incredible experience.

I bought my NGG from Marty Ingels - he did the voice of Pac-Man in the 80's cartoon...and he also had a MINT Pac-Man that he autographed. I probably should have bought that, too. I think he wanted $5k for it...which, at the time, just seemed like way too much for a Pac-Man, even a nice one! Might still be too much....but still, a cool piece of "Pac History".

Attention span isn't the issue...it's presentation. I think you need more of an attention span with modern pinball, especially games with crazy deep rulesets and scoring strategies. I just think most people just really gravitate toward pinball with a presentation that has personality. Personality goes a long way.

Think of your favorite movie with a really memorable soundtrack. Imagine watching it with no soundtrack. Same idea.

Yup. 30 years ago, I was playing arcade video games...but if I saw a pinball that looked cool, I'd play it. I loved STTNG the show, so I'd play the pin. I loved T2, so I'd play the pin. I had no idea what I was doing, but they were fun to shoot and the voices were cool. I was around 30 year old when I finally realized "Oh! Pinball has RULES?!"...and then when I played STTNG again, it was a totally new and different experience.

Any movie that John Williams scored...Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Indiana Jones. That music is BURNED in peoples heads and are an integral part of the experience of those movies. Without music, they wouldn't be the same.

You DONT remember these?! Absolutely iconic scores & the films would not be the same without them.

His name was Robert Paulsen.
His name was Robert Paulsen.
His name was Robert Paulsen.

Never heard of this....looked it up. That's a hard NO for me...lol...maybe Ben Heck can incorporate it into his Bible Adventure game.

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Nah, I don't watch religious content. Maybe they're big with kids in evangelical circles...

In any case - pinball themes always comes back to "who's buying games?". The goal of pinball factories isn't making games "to get kids into it"...because kids aren't seeking out public spaces for gaming, and they don't buy pinball machines. Any manufacturer makes a game based on Jesus Boyz, they'll sell zero units.

Literally the front of their own website lol.

Sounds boring, and no one would buy that machine. Next.

So...Baby Pac-Man?

Pinball's not a video game or a sport...it's pinball...so...let's enjoy pinball and stop trying to compare it to & turn it into things that it's not.

I guess it's just semantics. I don't consider video games a sport, either...despite the competitions, leagues and prizes.

My point was actually more about comparing it to speed runs and video games. A video game will always be in a controlled digital environment. Speed runners can speed run because they can memorize what they need to do and the results will be expected. Even the best pinball players are going to get caught off guard by the randomness of a sling or target. A great pinball player will never totally perform 100% as intended.

I mean, that’s where pinball already headed in the 90s with mode based games with lots of voices, music & personality. When most people played Addams Family, they concentrated on starting the modes & getting through all the rooms of the mansion. MB is all about the characters & the “story” of getting the band together. LOTR is all about the missions, characters and story of the movies. A good chunk of players have been playing pinball for the progression - points just happen to come along with it. Only recent games have become a little more specific about “you gotta play this way and do this and this” to blow up scores in a way that doesn't come organically with progression based play styles.