Pinball complicated for kids? How about the combination LLRUD XYZ to get Kirby to bash Pikachu in the head in Super Smash Bros.? I'm being facetious, of course, but kids can pick up complicated things. Look how many kids know how to operate new technical hardware that leaves lots of adults behind.

Stop patronising them, stop making things easy and 'accessible'. They'll figure it out if they want to and will be better off for it.

Pinball is too complicated for me! I have no idea what I am supposed to do 99% of the time I am playing a pinball game. I have 32 pinball games. I'm a casual player. I'm just trying to keep the ball above the flippers.

I run an airbnb (for the last 5 years) where people (& families) come just to play in my private arcade. I can attest to the fact that kids don't give a crap about pinball. They just don't. They play the driving games, terminator salvation, the claw games, and nfl 2 minute drill. Kids want to play games that have an obvious progression and an obvious end. To the newbie, pinball does NOT have either of those things unless you've watched a bunch of papa tutorials and youtube videos on that specific game.

Kids just HATE pinball. Pinball is an older persons thing.

Kids playing my games, most of them lose interest pretty quickly. Maybe one in ten, you can't drag away, though. That sounds about like the same reaction I get from adults.

I can't imagine kids now with modern pinball and deeper rulesets. Just hitting the ball around with no clue on objectives, but maybe there are super bright kids that play that I'm not giving enough credit. I thought the System 11 games were complicated as a youngster!

It is hysterical for a bunch of people that probably still use admin password on their wifi talk shit about pinball being to complicated for kids. I picture you guys asking your grandkids how to log in to Facebook as they roll their eyes.

This is why I like system 11 pins. Easy rules to understand.

Newer sterns i have NO clue wtf is going on. Too many jackpots, etc. SHould just be ONE major jackpot.

Bring back more simple pins and lesser pricing.

Maybe pinball isn't too complicated for kids but I can assure you that a good 90% of kids that have stayed at my airbnb don't care to play pinball. Their parents play though!

You really think anyone (kid or adult) can walk up to a pinball game like mandalorian (or any newer game), read the apron cards and know what to do to progress through the game and eventually end up at the wizard mode? No f'ing way. All anyone knows who isn't a diehard pinball fanatic is... don't drain the the ball. Pinball absolutely is too complicated. That's why I like gilligans island. It's a game that many can easily understand and actually get through in one game.

since my youngest is 6 and his favorites are big lebowski, Godzilla premium and Iron maiden. I'd say no. He knows what's going on in each. Knows how to start modes and when he's in a mode. Knows how to start all the multiballs. And I have easy to understand games as well, but those are his favorites.

Now JJP on the other hand. The only ones who really understand those games are the ones who programmed them or owned them for 5+ years.

I know my kids grew up around pins. The complexity is not the issue. My son was like so I just have to beat you, there is no global ranking system, no like pro league or teams for me to watch and follow, there is no season for me to work my way through? Yeah thanks I think I can find something a little more challenging and engaging to spend my time doing.

Pinball isn’t too complicated, but the way pinball communicates its rules, and systems is very confusing for anyone that isn’t already very familiar with it. Even with that familiarity, experienced players can be confused really easily. I think the real problem is in the ux design. There are solutions that still need developed there.

This is the truth.

Now I’m 29 so I’m in the generation that usually wasn’t raised around pinball and arcades.
We’ve had many pinballs in the house when growing up and I believe I can count to 1 friend that was even remotely a little bit interested in it, he would play a little and that’s about it.
The rest just did not simply care about it.
And now as an adult none of my friends are interested in pinball. Just how it is.

Most Adults can't/don't

Read Chaucer, or Shakespeare
Use a sextant and compass
Spell Analogue
Speak English (DO face-to-face interactions??)
Understand Pounds, Shillings and Pence
Live without TV, or the internet
Children of any era have never been able to just still. They are naturally curious and want to discover things - it's how we learn.

How many people could truly survive in the wilderness, building a shelter, hunting or gathering food? Not just to survive for a few days or weeks but actually thrive?
Strip and rebuild an engine?
Shoe a horse?

The point being that times change, as do the needs to be able to function successfully in society.

1. Completely useless “skill”.
2. Completely useless “skill”.
3. Well that just isn’t true.
4. Not true either. Also there are a lot of the “old guys” who don’t have social competence or even understand how to behave in general public.
5. What do you mean? Most people use the computer for their everyday work.
6. Maybe life is just too boring?
7. I can’t either. My ADD stops that. Also what’s the point of relaxing when you can do something productive and learn. Lazy people relax…
8. I can’t either. I do it once every ten years maybe. I just google it. Useless “skill”.

Now let’s move on to 2022 necessary skills there are plenty the older generation cannot do such as additions and subractions in an Excel sheet even though they use it everyday for example.
I can list many things the older generation can’t do that the younger can but that’s to no use.
Knowledge comes and goes, why learn something that isn’t necessary when you can learn something new that is? It’s evolution.
If we didn’t evolve then we would still be grunting at fires and throwing rocks at each other.

That’s why I bought GoldWings!

My 2 oldest grandkids 7 & 8 who come over to play started with pinball then onto mame video MK etc and now we don’t go in the games room as they want to play Fortnite, my grownup kids 20/30 are not interested in pinball and prefer consoles/pc games. Is what it is and will be taking the grandkids on their first fishing trip this year

Whatever makes them happy.

1. This is and has always been pointless.
2. GPS is the greatest thing on earth. I guess they are screwed if shit hits the fan and the walking dead becomes a reality.
3. My kids can read sundials.
5. Always check your work.
6. I bet you couldn’t live without tv news or the newspaper. Times change. These kids actually know how to use social media. It’s the 50s and above that seem to need it taken away from them.
7. It’s impossible for me to get my kid to do anything but this.
8. Technology is your friend again. They work smarter not harder. But if they had to write on an envelope I think they would be fine. Remember, they don’t know cursive, so it will at least be legible.

My favorite thing about the 80s gottliebs is the superb knocker use.

And the air raid siren lol

While I do feel some of the rules of modern games are complicated for the sake of being complicated, I think the key to modern games is having the time/desire/accessibility to the game to figuring it out. The rulesets are far beyond the days of "everything you need to know is printed on the playfield or apron card".

Watching tutorial videos helps, but nothing will substitute for actual experience. The videos cannot capture every what-if scenario. "Situational Awareness" as I like to call it, comes from actually standing at the machine with many hours of play.

I don't think the rules are too complicated for kids per se, they just are not as interested in pinball like the older generations. In my experience when kids ("younger people" is probably more accurate) are really into pinball, they know WAY more than I do and start rattling off these obscure strategies and nuances and know the Easter eggs and how to find the hidden points. Their brains are still in the absorbing phase, whereas I feel my storage bank is full with so many things not even related to pinball. Therefore, I either need to delete data, or refuse access

Don't know if this was mentioned, but my favorite is when kids and adults come over, decide on a game, and ask how they start a game. Um...it's the flashing button in front that says START.

I get that some rules are difficult, but that's just ridiculous.

Put a sticker under the glass that says "Swipe to Turn ON"

Oh goody, I love combining sweeping generalizations with gatekeeping based on familiarity biases! Let me try.

Most adults can not:

1. Understand what rn, based, bet, pog, af or f in chat means
2. Update the firmware on their gps
3. Find the clock in windows 10
4. Set up twitch stream
5. Pay for something with cashapp
6. Live without tv news
7. Learn new skills past 30
8. Snipe a preorder

Tell me you’re old and out of touch without saying you’re old and out of touch

“cursive writing is a relevant skill in 2022”

Perfect!

The amount of people that can’t figure out who is up even when the game says “Player 2, you’re up” is amazing to me too.

I think it’s an overstimulation thing. Too much going on so don’t pay attention to anything kind of scenario.

Hahaha this is great. Most kids can’t change a wagon wheel or plow a field. Those damn useless kids lol

Pffft, I bet they don’t even know how to make candles from lard. How they hell do they read their newspapers?

Well we had a president who still hasn't learned what you can and cannot flush down a toilet; Most kids these days have figured that out.

Oh, the good 'ol days.

Had?

Man, what a difference a few years make, because I'm only a little older than you (37) and I noticed the exact opposite. Barcades are hugely popular, even throughout covid. When people come over, we immediately seem to gravitate to my pinball machine.

It might be a casual interest, but it feels like a real interest. Maybe it's a big city thing?

My son is 11 and he plays the shit out of all the most complex games and learns all the details before I do and coaches me. I don’t think it’s a matter of kids or age. It’s that many kids were not familiarized with pinball and if you are coming to a modern pinball for the first time, no matter your age, it’s just not easy to get into. Takes a lot of practice, study, patience, and determination and that is the barrier.

My kids know all the Pokémon, and which one becomes which, and the abilities, and types. But they have no idea how to actually play the game.

I think it just comes down to personal interests. Nothing to do with complexity or ability. It is a niche interest and while increased exposure will increase participation/interest it is NEVER going to have uptake like something which can be experienced on a mobile platform.

Pinball machines do not have the capability to immediately captivate a non interested audience. It takes a lot of work to draw most people in. Damn, I can’t convince any of my close friends to buy a motorcycle, play pinball or go skydiving - just not interested and I have been trying for 20 years. But damn they will try new IPA’s at the drop of a hat - now that they are interested in. They will play pinball under coercion and have turned down multiple offers to borrow a game. But at the end of the day - the interest is not there. My son and his friends were the same way. It either captivates you or it doesn’t.

I lost my interest in pinball in the mid eighties once video games really took over. My interest in pinball came back largely due to nostalgia (anyone can have a video game/emulator) but not just anyone could have a pinball machine. It was different and gave me an opportunity to tinker again (long ago were the days of rebuilding dirt bike engines and the like). It was interesting (to me).

Young people are not dumber or smarter than us. Anymore than we were our parents. Are they a different combination of experiences and knowledge - well yes. They are different than us, just like we were different than our parents. Remember we can’t build pyramids anymore but 1000’s of years ago we could. Are we less skilled? Less intelligent? No, but we’ are skilled differently and have significantly different interests.

I zone out completely if a game, any game loses me. I'm a life-long gamer and even the most complicated video games are still easy to follow. A modern pinball game? No chance, no idea what the hell is going on. Figuring out modern rulesets is like doing complicated math... super boring. Kids don't give a crap about scoring points, the system is redundant, and will expire when the old timers expire. Give them objectives, missions, characters, an immersive story... all wrapped up in a blazing light and sound show. That's where pinball is heading.

Boardgames are way too complicated for this adult. My kids keep asking me to play Villaninous, Ticket to Ride, King of New York, and other types of complicated board games. When did the rules become 50 page novels? What happened to Monopoly, Clue, Operation, Battleship, or even Risk? My kids seem to have every advantage memorized, when exactly to play specific cards, and the best strategies. I don't even know what character to pick! For f*@k sake, i just want to win once during family game night, just once. At least i have pinball...for now.

Yup, my friend and boss of over 30 years who had ADDx10 never stopped. Huge successful company. Slept maybe 2 hours a night. Relaxation was not on his menu. "I'll have plenty of time to relax when I die" he said often. He did die. Age 60. He went crazy from lack of sleep. Took his own life.

And ironically, those board games listed aren't even *that complicated* compared to a lot of European-style strategy board games! Those (especially Villianous) are our "easy don't have to memorize a lot of rules" games in our household. We'll bring out Concordia or Eldritch Horror for the "set up for a few hours and get comfy" days.

We had some friends over a few weeks back to play Dune. Unfortunately, we were already a couple of drinks in when we cracked it out and it didn't go over so well. xD

I also keep trying to convince people to play Diplomacy with me, but nobody wants to watch a twenty minute long video to play a game. They just want to play Secret Hitler instead.

Had a boss like that.
He was CEO of the company.
Also sales.
Project manager.
Software developer.
Commissioning.
All at once.
While being a farmer at full time.
And a horse breeder.

I still don’t have a single clue of how he can still puzzle all that shit together.

Ticket To Ride is simple.

You want complicated try https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/4815/campaign-north-africa-desert-war-1940-43

60000 Min Playing Time!!!!

Played Ticket to Ride again last night and you are right it is pretty strait forward after a few plays. My son still destroyed us all. He also got the 7th place high score on South Park recently. I always knew my skills would diminish someday…just expected it to be later in life.

forbidden desert is great simple but fun coop game. Quick setup, and very random every game. Easy to play for most age groups.

I mean, that’s where pinball already headed in the 90s with mode based games with lots of voices, music & personality. When most people played Addams Family, they concentrated on starting the modes & getting through all the rooms of the mansion. MB is all about the characters & the “story” of getting the band together. LOTR is all about the missions, characters and story of the movies. A good chunk of players have been playing pinball for the progression - points just happen to come along with it. Only recent games have become a little more specific about “you gotta play this way and do this and this” to blow up scores in a way that doesn't come organically with progression based play styles.

Whenever I show my pins to newbs I always start with Potc it’s easy sink the ship, Jack the monkey, etc. everything is laid out and simple. I’ll show them AFM and TNA both simple.

Otherwise if I show them Woz or JP etc I tell them it’s too complicated and I’ll coach them to shoot the witch or to get the T-Rex to grab the ball. I don’t try to explain the whole game to them.

This is why Medieval Madness was always the favorite game of all visitors to my arcade. But I understand not every game can be fortunate to have such a toy.

I know it's against conventional thinking since it's such a hated system among "purists" but the pinball 2000 games are far and away the most played by kids visiting my house. It's easy to understand, immersive themes, they can see whats happening while playing. Always the first games they go to.

The Stern games are difficult for them because they want to see the graphics, animations and stuff happening on the screen which is where the game is showing them feedback on what they are doing but can't look up from what they are doing on the play field. Actually, i get that complaint from adults too.

Pinball2000 is lots of entertainment.
Easy to play, fun to play.
I don’t understand why people dislike them so much. Yet I am grateful as I could pick up a minty-minty-MINT RFM for peanuts in todays wicked market.
Lots of game for the money and a cool piece of pinball history.
Just my two cents.

But I’m in the category where I can’t give a rats ass about the new games.
I like WPC games and prefer those above all else, for no other particular reason that those were the games to play when I was collecting 15 years ago and now when I’ve started collecting again I simply want those. They appeal to me.
New Stern etc may be far superior but they simply don’t appeal to me.

Exactly this, most of the time they play 1 ball and stop. I used to turn them on for guests, but now I only open them if they ask to play. I couldn’t care less, I buy pins for myself to enjoy.