I have an old Williams em pinball I'm repairing that's currently stuck on ball 1 and never changes to ball 2. I've just about run out of ideas any starting point for me to check would help. The ball unit resets at the start of the game, but doesn't change afterwards. It's as if the coil itself isn't firing at all. I tried tracing it back but without a schematic it's difficult. It seems that the ball eject triggers the outhole relay which works fine, the outhole relays "opens in circuit to "on yellow" relay and closes in circuit to ball count unit s. U. Coil." does this coil directly fire the ball unit coil? I'm not sure what s.u. Coil stands for. Any help at all to get me started is appreciated.

It's a Williams solids n stripes, when the ball reaches the outhole the coil does fire, and ball is ejected to shooting lane, but stays on ball 1.

Edited- confused the terms eject pocket and outhole.

I've checked everything in circuit to the ball count su, and they seem to all check out fine. Does "In circuit to" just means in the circuit to pulse the unit? Also when the outhole relay goes off, that's the only coil that goes off none of the others. (except ball release coil) in the outhole description it says that B-3 is "in circuit to pulse both relay bank reset coils" Does this mean the relay banks should reset? Sorry about all the questions I'm still very novice At this.

#way2wyrd- how do you jump connections? I've tested them with a multimeter, but I wish I could test the coil for the ball count unit itself (beside multimeter). The Step up coil reads 2.2 which is normal, but I'm out of things to check. I've traced the circuit at least 10 times with no difference.

#fireball2- the game plays fine with the ball ejecting into the shooting hole fine. I've tested the outhole, Which triggers the down-post and the outhole relay. The outhole relay all seems fine and well adjusted the ball count unit doesn't even get energized at all. Ive been testing the unit by starting it up with the playfield up and pushing the ball eject leaf switches simulating the end of ball 1.

My machine is stuck on ball 1 player one. I can't seem to get it to 2 player. I toke some pics underneath the playfield, I couldn't find the roller over switch you said. The third pic is of my down post which goes off with the ball eject. Not sure if it relates or not, but it goes off too.

i didnt notice my pictures weren't posted here they are now. Ill start to jumping connections tomorrow night, this repair would be easier with time off work ha. Before i do that though i think i'm going to get some more alcohol and clean the switches again. After sanding them again i noticed that my ball 1 light only flickers a second before going off and my play 1 light won't come on anymore. I keep thinking this has to just be a switch im not noticing, it would be a lot easier with a schematic if one even exists. I also checked my 0 position on the ball count unit and its correct. Do you know from any other williams or ems if the outhole is suppose to trigger another relay before the ball count unit?

IMG_2239.JPG IMG_2240.JPG IMG_2243.JPG

i finally made some progress i think. I went into my pinball machine (while it was turned on) and manually pushed leaf switches on the second coin relay in circuit to the ball count s.u. unit. I noticed that when i push them to different switches i can get the ball count s.u. unit to go off. Its a little hard to explain so i edited the pictures in paint. The red line is where im placing my screwdriver, and the blue lines are the switches i close when moving the screwdriver. Is it possible my second coin relay is wired in-correctly?
Both pics are of second coin relay first pic shows how i can get the ball count unit s.u. to fire and the second shows how i can get the 1-7 relay to fire which also doesnt work normally.

s.u._unit_goes_off.jpg 1-7_relay_goes_off.jpg

yes i know the screwdriver was a bad idea, but i was desperate and it was rubber insulated. I also just recieved my rubber ring kit and leaf tool later today conviently ha. Anyway good and bad news. The good is the latch works perfectly, when i switch to 2 players it unlatches fine. The bad is that even though it unlatches the ball count and 1-7 relays arent working. in the previous pictures im accually connecting leaf switches that dont normally go together and thats what makes them work. In my manual it shows the proper connections for the 2nd coin relay as M/B-M/B- open- and closed for the last one. Are these connection set when its latched or unlatched though? here's a picture of the relay unlatched.

IMG_2246.JPG

I haven't even thought about the score motor, well it does have some pretty big blue sparks come off it. I'll try tracing it back and cleaning with alcohol. Is it odd though that when I connect two other ones on the 2nd coin relay I can get the 1-7 relay to go off? That relay should also be firing, but it's not as well. I'll just go one at a time and start with the score motor tomorrow.

#fireball2- i've cleaned the score motor, but im a bit worried to adjust anything since i dont have a schematic and my manual doesnt show the correct setup.

#jeff- okay ill post up pictures of the relays, the only ones in my manual that seem to relate to ball count s.u. are the outhole relay, extraball relay, and second coin relay. So far when i simulate the end of ball 1 only the outhole relay goes off and the score motor runs one turn.

First is the outhole relay and its manual page
seconds the second coin relay unlatched and its manual page
third is the extra ball relay and its page

outhole_relay.JPG outhole_relay_manual.JPG second_coin_unlatched.JPG

rest of pics

second_coin_relay.JPG extra_ball_relay.JPG extra_ball_relay_manual.JPG

For the ball index it says
N.o -in hold to circuit to no.8 relay
N.O- in hold to extra ball relay
N.o - in series with with D on extra ball relay
N.o- hold circuit to this relay, thru switch E on outhole relay
Nothing directly says in circuit to ball count s.u, I would think the index relates some how.
And by outhole switch itself do you mean the outhole relay posted above or the pocket below the flippers where the ball ejects from?

THe second picture in the 13th post has the eject pocket picture, would a closer one be more helpful? It only has 1 pair of leaf switches on it. And alright I'm about to test it, but I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly does it matter which wire on the coil I put the alligator clip on?

Yes everything makes sense, but I ran into another problem after cleaning the score motor my 100 relay and bell s.u get stuck on after scoring a point. I'll have to go search through the score motor first unfortunately.

Edit - easy fix cleaned out the score motor again And it works fine, moving on to the clips now

Okay the solenoids didn't have a black white, but they both had white and some random color so I assumed that's the non-common. When I put one clip on outhole and one clip and ball count s.u I pushed the leaf switch where the ball ejects from and their was a huge blue spark on that switch
Note* the ball count s.u did not fire.

Oh I had them on the coil itself, so I'm just clipping the leaf switches in sequence, I don't know how I missed that alright I'll try thus again.

Okay I tested the coils in-circuit. The outhole relay works fine, but the second coin and extra ball relay don't have any effect on the ball count s.u coil at all.

Okay I think I found the problem! When I push anything that scores points the ball index relay doesn't energize at all. I tested the coil and it gives off 13.3 ohms so I has to be good. It says in the manual it's energized by the 100 point relay 1000 point relay or tilt relay and the connections on those are fine.

Okay I got the ball index working! But it stays energized and is extremely loud, I haven't tested if the ball count unit works because of the noise.

Okay i fixed the ball index and it works perfectly, goes to ball 1,2, and 3 and finishes fine, but the ball index coil is extremely loud and noise.
Edit - got ball index to a bearable level, but just noticed 100 relay is stuck on, probally happened when cleaning score motor

Turns out my 100 point and 1000 point relays needed another cleaning, I didn't even realize some of the switches were gold plated till after I cleaned it! Yeah turns out my 1000 and 100 relay get stuck on after score points, so far ive cleaned the score motor, the score reals, and the stepper again with no luck. Any idea what the connections on the score wheel should be? I found in another post an animation showing how the score wheels should go, but mine are different. My wheels go all open on 0
Middle and top closed 1-8
All closed on 9
I'm guessing Williams score reels are different from ballys
1 more question do you have any idea where cam switch C would be on the score motor? This switch pulses the 1000 relay.
Thanks again for all your help.

Okay the score reels are fine, and now my ball count works perfectly. I just cleaned the entire machine every leaf switch individually with alcohol, and now the 100 works, but the 1000 point relay and 10 point relay stay energized. Must be a misadjusted switch somewhere.
So far I turn it on all switches fine, when score either the 10 point or 1000 point they stay energized untill game-over. The points also don't register on the score reels.

I'll go back and check them again, the reels aren't turning at all when points are scored.

you were right about the EOS switch for the 10 point relay the solder broke off completely the pics below, i must of done that while cleaning. The 1000 point relay though is still stuck on after scoring points and the 1000 relay doesnt move/give points. Any ideas? i've been seaching the past couple hours with no success.

Turns out the coil works fine but wasn't pulling in all the way cleaned the score reel again and everything works great! Thanks for all your help without it, It would of toke me 3 times as long. Now I just gotta make that ball index stop buzzing ha