(Topic ID: 66961)

Pinball Remakes --- This Might Get Me To Drop The Hobby


By surfnrg

5 years ago



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  • 324 posts
  • 150 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by spfxted
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    There are 324 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 7.
    #151 5 years ago

    This is a topic that I can see from both sides of the fence, yes I own a lot of the a-list games and have spent a lot having them restored to excellent condition. Will their value go down? Who knows, I believe original examples will always be worth more than re-makes and honestly it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to me because my games are going nowhere. That being said, yes of course I liked the fact that my games were hard to come by and there price was going up and prefer it to stay that way. Is that being selfish? Maybe, does it make me a bad person? I think not, but it's my opinion and I believe we are all entitled to our own. The OP is also entitled to his, so people should lay off him a bit, because either way it's not going to change the fact that this is going to happen regardless to who says what.........

    #152 5 years ago

    I simply can't fathom why anyone would look at the MM reproduction as bad for the hobby. Here we have what is perhaps the most beloved game of all time, and now there will be thousands more in existence. This means more people will be able to own the game, and more people will be able to enjoy playing the game. How is this a bad thing?

    #153 5 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Hell no! I don't believe Williams ever called the original MM an LE, or ever said that no more would ever be made.
    PPS bought the rights to do just this years ago. Wayne announced he would do this years ago. So anybody who argues that this shouldn't be happening has either been living under a rock, or is very selfish.

    I'm busy creating another Pinside ... an LE version that comes with gold shading rather than the proletarian blue that is used on this site. Hope Robin doesn't mind.

    #154 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinster68:

    Did the same with an NoS Gorgar playfield. $500 for the playfield, $850 to restore. One playfield twice the price of your average whole Gorgar. Woof.

    Same here with Jungle Lord. I have $600 in an NOS playfield and haven't had it cleared yet.

    #155 5 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I simply can't fathom why anyone would look at the MM reproduction as bad for the hobby. Here we have what is perhaps the most beloved game of all time, and now there will be thousands more in existence. This means more people will be able to own the game, and more people will be able to enjoy playing the game. How is this a bad thing?

    When you state it like that nothing.

    But the obvious answer to how it could be a bad thing, to some people, is because the value of their MM just went down. That's the issue that is driving the majority of all of these MMr discussions on Pinside right now.

    #156 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    When you state it like that nothing.
    But the obvious answer to how it could be a bad thing, to some people, is because the value of their MM just went down. That's the issue that is driving the majority of all of these MMr discussions on Pinside right now.

    But it is your money not mine, so it is not a bad thing to me. Just don't do anything to lower the value of my STTNG. That's sacred.
    /sarcasm off

    #157 5 years ago
    Quoted from MonsterBash26:

    I couldn't disagree with this statement more. The games are just as fun and magical as they were. except now there will be a larger community to share these experiences with.
    Saying the magic is gone is liking being in the only private country club in town and getting bitter because a new one has opened up and you can't look down on the non-members anymore.
    I've also seen a couple shots taken at PPS. How dare he find an opportunity, invest a bunch of money securing the rights, work day and night organizing his business to make it happen, and then provide a product that people desparatley want and will make a ton of people happy (as well as a healthy profit for himself)!

    PPS is NOT doing this remake out of the love of pinball or to make people happy they are doing it for the simple fact that they saw a opportunity to bring something out that they can sell with a HUGE profit margin, for anybody not to see that are blind, I applaud their business sense.

    #158 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    When you state it like that nothing.
    But the obvious answer to how it could be a bad thing, to some people, is because the value of their MM just went down. That's the issue that is driving the majority of all of these MMr discussions on Pinside right now.

    the value shouldn't mean anything to them. All the MM owners claim it's so damn great. If that's the case, the value of it should be meaningless because it's such an awesome game, they arn't selling anyway...right?

    18
    #159 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    I would have purchased other titles if I knew that the most expensive games were going to be a bad investment.

    That is the problem right there: INVESTMENT

    My house was worth $900,000 - until it wasn't .
    My new car was worth $60,000 - until I sold it 3 years latter.
    My laptop was worth $2,500 - until a month latter when the new model came out.
    Gold was worth $1850 - until it fell to $1300
    My old GFs Benie Babies were worth $6,000 - until they were worth $500

    Anyone want to cry for me and my "investments"?

    -2
    #160 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    the value shouldn't mean anything to them. All the MM owners claim it's so damn great. If that's the case, the value of it should be meaningless because it's such an awesome game, they arn't selling anyway...right?

    Wrong.

    I own MM. I'm not selling. Have no intent on selling anytime soon, because it's my favorite pin ever. But guess what? This may come as a shocker, but I'm *still* not happy about the fact that it's lost value. Is that wrong? Should I actually be happy that it's no longer worth what it was a few days ago?

    I'm not someone who has ever bought pins as an investment, or to make money on them. I have always realized that the value of my collection could, and probably would, go down. I accept that. And you know what? It *still* doesn't mean that I am happy about it! Imagine that.

    #161 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    But the obvious answer to how it could be a bad thing, to some people, is because the value of their MM just went down. That's the issue that is driving the majority of all of these MMr discussions on Pinside right now.

    Of course, and I'm not unsympathetic to these people, but when you consider the hobby as a whole, the remake is a very good thing. We're not talking about Beenie Babies or comic books. Most people in the hobby collect the games simply because they enjoy playing them.

    19
    #162 5 years ago

    I disagree. I'd rather have all my games be worth $300, so I can buy more $300 games I want.

    #163 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I disagree. I'd rather have all my games be worth $300, so I can buy more $300 games I want.

    I would happily trade the value of all 40 of my pins down to $300 - if EVERY pin was $300.

    Hell yes!

    #164 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I disagree. I'd rather have all my games be worth $300, so I can buy more $300 games I want.

    Quoted from vid1900:

    I would happily trade the value of all 40 of my pins down to $300 - if EVERY pin was $300.
    Hell yes!

    You boys should start a club, the $300 club.

    #165 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    I didn't get into the hobby to make money on the games. Anyone who has tried to buy a game from me knows that I only sell to make space for something I want more. I'm not a rich guy... I was able to enjoy my games because their value was somewhat locked in. I understood the risk of prices going up and down due to demand, but I never thought that supply would increase. Now any game can and will be reproduced at any time. There will be only 1000 LE MM games.... I think that means there will be as many non LE games as the market allows. So I guess I got burned, I lost money I was not counting on losing. I bought the games because I really enjoy playing them and working on them. I had no intention on selling MM anytime soon and was happy if the game went up in value. I paid a price for games that had built into the price value based on availability... now that value is gone. Now pinball games will be depreciating assets, the money to purchase those games will now have to come from a smaller pool of money.
    I spent many years buying and selling games and working my way up to the collection I have. I would have purchased other titles if I knew that the most expensive games were going to be a bad investment. There are plenty of games out there for people to get into the hobby, including the new Stern games.
    I read so many replies stating that there is risk in investments... and I took risks buying at the top of the market. This seems different though. The value did not go down because Stern made a better game, or because less people are interested in the title... the value went down because one person changed the game.
    I understand the majority argument... more people will get to enjoy MM, CC and other titles. I guess I feel that these games will lose some of their magic and allure as well.
    And to those who say the prices will not go down.. any takers on my MM for 12k? That's what I paid. Also my CCC is on the auction block for what I paid as well. I feel safe with my BBB for now, I don't think he will bother redoing the title.

    I usually don't get involved in this stuff but I couldn't resist with this one. You paid 12k for a piece of arcade equipment to be used for personal enjoyment? Plus you own several other uber high dollar pins. You ARE a rich guy.

    #166 5 years ago

    we should start a club. By the thumbs up, looks like we are going to need matching jackets.

    #167 5 years ago

    My Judge Dredd is no longer a $1400 game? Wahhh......

    #168 5 years ago

    I look at this another way, I own a really nice MB which is on the short list of remakes. I play the hell out of it, but constantly think about wear and in the back of my head how it will effect value. Well now, I just assume it will be remade, already "lost" that money (assuming I ever sell) so fuck it, I'm gonna play the hell out of that thing guilt free! And get a NIB MM to boot!!!

    #169 5 years ago

    Let's play pinball...

    #170 5 years ago
    Quoted from misfitdart:

    PPS is NOT doing this remake out of the love of pinball or to make people happy they are doing it for the simple fact that they saw a opportunity to bring something out that they can sell with a HUGE profit margin, for anybody not to see that are blind, I applaud their business sense.

    So?

    In doing so, they are making a lot of people very happy.

    #171 5 years ago
    Quoted from pinmods:

    So?
    In doing so, they are making a lot of people very happy.

    So nothing, I agree and think that it is fucking awesome.

    #172 5 years ago
    Quoted from Anth:

    Think there would be a bunch of tittysiders complaining about all the investors that don't care about the hobby? "He doesn't appreciate the tits, he's only here to make a buck."

    I typed in tittyside dot com and got some interesting results.

    #173 5 years ago

    If you're looking for a game that will only ever appreciate in value, Baywatch is your game!

    You can nearly guarantee they will never re-create Baywatch...

    $12,000 by Christmas!

    #174 5 years ago
    Quoted from Indypin:

    I think some pinheads like to dog other MM owners thinking we're a bunch of wannabe Bill Gates, taking our easily obtained money and buying these high dollar pins to screw with the other pinheads who can't, or won't, spend that kind of money on a pin. What a misconception! I worked just as hard, if not harder, like the rest of the pinheads in order to help get the money together to help fund their purchase. We all love this hobby, but anyone who says that they didn't get a little happy knowing their pin purchase is now a highly collectible pin, is just lying to themselves. C'mon guys, lighten up on this guy a little bit.

    Nah, the OP whined here and deserves the feedback. For example, I have my NIB CV and am amused to see how sale prices have gone up for this title. Could probably sell mine for $7k or so, but I love the game and would never sell. If Rick announced Friday that they were making 2000 repro CVs for $5k, I'd be happy, figuring more people could own and play a cool game. Wouldn't bother me because I like CV and am not selling. Because I like pinball, and am not in it for the 'investment' or bragging rights. So the OP sounds like a crybaby to me, and the hobby will be no worse off when he leaves it.

    Seriously, existing MMs (or any othe game) will still play just as well and be just as much fun regardless of what repros or new titles are made. If you can't justify spending the high price for 'A List' titles, find cheaper ones or take up a cheaper hobby.

    #175 5 years ago
    Quoted from centerflank:

    I bought that for 4500, f*cking fire sale, suck it b*tches. Enjoy your crap @ss remakes.

    Quoting for posterity!

    #176 5 years ago
    Quoted from guyincognito:

    If you're looking for a game that will only ever appreciate in value, Baywatch is your game!
    You can nearly guarantee they will never re-create Baywatch...
    $12,000 by Christmas!

    quick, let's run up the market on those

    hehehe

    -1
    #177 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    When you state it like that nothing.
    But the obvious answer to how it could be a bad thing, to some people, is because the value of their MM just went down. That's the issue that is driving the majority of all of these MMr discussions on Pinside right now.

    Well, should we cry for the people that bought Apple at $700 too? On the stock blogs if someone posts about their big stock loss does everyone cozy up and have a good cry together? No. People who have experienced same sympathize, most don't care, and some will say "don't cry for me Argentina" or worse. Human nature. Taking pleasure in someone else's misery is, unfortunately part of life. Hard to really give that much of a crap when the topic is 4 pinball machines that the owner paid over $40k for.

    #178 5 years ago

    Regardless of the title or popularity, no pinball machine is worth 10k or more. I have games that are listed as "B" games and they're just as much fun as some of the big titles that everyone is seeking. MM doesn't really do anything for me. TZ is a great game but I'm not going to pay thousands of dollars for it. It's a pinball machine, not a shrine.
    For the cost of an average title in good condition, I can put ratio rockers and headers on my '01 Vette and increase the horsepower by 40 to 50 ponies. That's worth a lot more to me than having a pinball machine with a damsel in distress. But then, that's just my value system. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE pinball machines, but anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay.

    -1
    #179 5 years ago

    ... As for remaking certain pinball machines, I think it's a lame way to keep the business alive. There's absolutely no reason why manufacturers can't come up with new ideas. It's like seeing television shows remade for a new generation of followers. Original thinking is what keeps any field interesting.

    #180 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    Trex is an awesome toy. One of the best in pinball.

    Damn nice decking and handrail material also.
    No more sanding, painting and staining leaves more time for pinball.

    Waterfall 011.jpg

    #181 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Taking pleasure in someone else's misery is, unfortunately part of life.

    Only to people like you apparently, since you always seem to happily and quickly defend that kind of behavior.

    #182 5 years ago

    I don't defend that behavior....I just dont feel sorry for you.

    But this kid does. Maybe the two of you can sit down together and have a good cry?

    image.jpg

    #183 5 years ago

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude

    Ever heard of it Rob? Just cause I know it exists doesn't mean I ascribe to it.

    #184 5 years ago
    Quoted from PinPall007:

    ... As for remaking certain pinball machines, I think it's a lame way to keep the business alive. There's absolutely no reason why manufacturers can't come up with new ideas. It's like seeing television shows remade for a new generation of followers. Original thinking is what keeps any field interesting.

    Why come up with new ideas when you can redo a old one and make a boat load of cash, smart business sense is what is bringing mm back.

    #185 5 years ago
    Quoted from misfitdart:

    Why come up with new ideas when you can redo a old one and make a boat load of cash, smart business sense is what is bringing mm back.

    Wish movie and music industry would stop doing this though. Good business sense but lazy on creativity.

    #186 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    I don't defend that behavior....I just dont feel sorry for you.
    But this kid does. Maybe the two of you can sit down together and have a good cry?

    Of course you defend it. You were doing it in that post. You haven't criticized anyone for doing it. Quite the opposite. You say that it should just be accepted.

    #187 5 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    Wish movie and music industry would stop doing this though. Good business sense but lazy on creativity.

    I agree but it's the way of world it seems.

    #188 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Of course you defend it. You were doing it in that post. You haven't criticized anyone for doing it. Quite the opposite. You say that it should just be accepted.

    It's a part of life dude...

    #189 5 years ago

    And I don't like that either...but I accept it.

    #190 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    And I don't like that either...but I accept it.

    Fair enough, if I misinterpreted, I apologize.

    It might be part of life from people who don't have one, but I sure as hell am sick of seeing more than my fair share of it here on Pinside. I don't understand why people can't just be happy about this announcement and their opportunity to get a remade MM for thousands less than a used original, without feeling like they also have to take joy in seeing other people lose value/money. Nobody is saying that anyone should feel sorry for anyone. Not at all. It's a hobby, and we've all discussed a million times what it would take for prices to come down, so most of us have been waiting for it to happen.

    #191 5 years ago

    If the only people who bought pinball machines were ones who didn't care how much they were worth, pinball would have died years ago. Anyone who puts a significant amount of money into anything has the right to be upset if it might lose its value. To all of you telling him to get out of the hobby, you are the type that keep new people from getting into the hobby to begin with. When my wife and I are looking to purchase a pin, we seriously consider whether or not we could get most of the asking price back out of it if need be. This simply means that we are smart with our money, it doesn't make us love the hobby of pinball any less.

    What about people who bought a house that was within their means, the correct way, and then saw all their equity disappear when the housing market collapsed? Are you saying they have no reason to be upset since "well, investments can go up and down". Or maybe you can tell them to get out of being a house owner since they apparently didn't buy a house for the love of houses.

    All of you pinball elitists who think money or future value should never factor into whether you buy a pinball machine, why don't you get out of the hobby cause it would be a lot better off.

    #192 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Fair enough, if I misinterpreted, I apologize.
    It might be part of life from people who don't have one, but I sure as hell am sick of seeing more than my fair share of it here on Pinside. I don't understand why people can't just be happy about this announcement and their opportunity to get a remade MM for thousands less than a used original, without feeling like they also have to take joy in seeing other people lose value/money. Nobody is saying that anyone should feel sorry for anyone. Not at all. It's a hobby, and we've all discussed a million times what it would take for prices to come down, so most of us have been waiting for it to happen.

    Thanks. I posted earlier in this thread - directly to the OP, who I've met. I've played his MM. And his CCC, and his BBB. They were beautiful. He's a nice guy, and was a gracious host. Regardless of the MM remake, this guy appears to live a blessed life. Not that he didn't work for it...but he's doing fine. He shared his reaction - as you have, and I trust you're doing just fine too - on a public forum and many people are rolling their eyes. Including me to a degree. Doesn't mean I think he's a dick. I don't! But he did subject himself to this criticism. And at the same time he's found brothers in arms with you and others, who feel his pain.

    #193 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wahchintonka:

    If the only people who bought pinball machines were ones who didn't care how much they were worth, pinball would have died years ago. Anyone who puts a significant amount of money into anything has the right to be upset if it might lose its value. To all of you telling him to get out of the hobby, you are the type that keep new people from getting into the hobby to begin with. When my wife and I are looking to purchase a pin, we seriously consider whether or not we could get most of the asking price back out of it if need be. This simply means that we are smart with our money, it doesn't make us love the hobby of pinball any less.
    What about people who bought a house that was within their means, the correct way, and then saw all their equity disappear when the housing market collapsed? Are you saying they have no reason to be upset since "well, investments can go up and down". Or maybe you can tell them to get out of being a house owner since they apparently didn't buy a house for the love of houses.
    All of you pinball elitists who think money or future value should never factor into whether you buy a pinball machine, why don't you get out of the hobby cause it would be a lot better off.

    At first I thought this was a poor comparison. Housing was not really considered an "investment asset" until the recent bubble. The reason it crashed is because too many people started treating it as an investment. So I guess its a perfect comparison.

    #194 5 years ago

    Do you complain as a home owner every time a new house gets built and lowers the value of yours? And why exactly did the housing market crash? Too many people spending too much on houses they couldn't afford.

    -1
    #195 5 years ago

    "Absolute jealously corrupts absolutely."

    The Stern hermit crabs were never really happy with their low resolution, incomplete code games.

    They bad mouthed MM owners claiming that the game was a waste of money, boring and overrated.

    They bought a remake, because all along they were really just being jealous.

    Knowing that their remake is still inferior to the original, they continue the jealously by hoping that the original owners will lose value on their originals so that they can still buy a real one.

    They need to just crawl back into their shell.

    Stern hermit crab.jpg

    #196 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated.

    What? Most games do not appreciate.

    #197 5 years ago

    Here's the thing, these are commercial machines designed to take in money. We buy them and trade them and create a new market value for them. Some people (like myself) bought them to enjoy them and might sell one of two to purchase others. In the past 8-9 years, "investors" moved in. These seemed to us old timers to be people with deep pockets and no willingness to work on their own games. But then greed kicks in and some of my "generation" of collector saw this as opportunity to make money. Other people without the love see this and figure they can make money without doing anything to the game. I call this the "Sir Janny" syndrome. I'd say that exiting the hobby helps define where you are as a "collector". If they do AFM next and my machine falls through the floor in value, what do I care? It's not for sale and I'll still enjoy it for years to come. And yes, I have sold a few of my high end pins for a profit lately. I enjoyed them for years and was done with them. Someone else is enjoying them and I'm playing other games. Win-Win!

    -1
    #198 5 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    I disagree. I'd rather have all my games be worth $300, so I can buy more $300 games I want.

    So, you would be happy if all your multithousand dollar pins were suddenly worth half?

    If you say yes, you are a liar.

    #199 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pugsley:

    Do you complain as a home owner every time a new house gets built and lowers the value of yours? And why exactly did the housing market crash? Too many people spending too much on houses they couldn't afford.

    Actually a new home in a neighborhood would likely increase the values of the homes around it, but if something happened that lowered the value of my house, then yes, I would complain. My issue is with those who say that no one should care what their pinball machines are worth. Yes, investments can go up and down, but we still have the right to complain and be upset when something outside our realm of control causes the said investment to loose value.

    To be honest, the pinball market is headed towards a bubble burst considering the way prices have climbed over the last few years and the remakes may just be the thing to do it. Also, if anyone thinks that Planetary's main reason for remaking MM is anything other than money they are kidding themselves.

    10
    #200 5 years ago
    Quoted from dmesserly:

    So, you would be happy if all your multithousand dollar pins were suddenly worth half?
    If you say yes, you are a liar.

    You obviously DO NOT GET IT.

    The truth is that YES, many real pinheads really don't care what the games they have are worth. We like playing and owning pinball machines. If my games being worth 10% of what they were yesterday also means all other games are worth 10% of what they were then I am super happy. That would mean I can actually afford to buy more games and play more games!

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