(Topic ID: 66961)

Pinball Remakes --- This Might Get Me To Drop The Hobby


By surfnrg

5 years ago



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  • 324 posts
  • 150 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by spfxted
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    There are 324 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    -106
    #1 5 years ago

    On one side, it's great that they are remaking the games as it shows the hobby is alive and well. I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated. I like the collectibility aspect, trying to figure out which games will go up more than others.

    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less. I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space. Now this guy just killed the market. It's a little frustrating. Yes I'm sure it's great for distributors and those who wanted games for less.

    41
    #2 5 years ago

    Great games at cheaper prices? Only a good thing imo

    #4 5 years ago

    there will always be a market for "original" over remake. look at the Big Bang Bar. the originals are worth more than the remakes. it is like this in most collectible markets. the orginal Cobras are worth more then the "kit" cars.

    you should be fine, but if you find yourself getting frustrated drop me a line on some of the A lists that you have and i will try and help ease your pain.

    25
    #5 5 years ago

    You invested and you lost, that's the way investments work...they go up...or they go down....MM will on average go down now...

    13
    #6 5 years ago

    BooHoo

    Bad for you, good for the hobby.

    30
    #7 5 years ago

    You're probably not doing any favors to the community if you're just in it for the money.

    Why not invest somewhere else?

    #8 5 years ago

    Perhaps 1 or 2 of your great pins will see a remake, but not most of the pins in your collection.
    Overall in the long run, you should be fine, even if MM gets a remake.
    If you're uneasy about it, you may want to sell your MM & CC soon before price drops any more.
    Nice collection. I like a lot of the pins you selected.
    Cheers!

    #9 5 years ago

    Is your Big Bang Bar an original?

    14
    #10 5 years ago

    Well goodbye then

    Sell your rapidly depreciating assets now & let the rest of us play pinball

    We will survive just fine without pinflation

    11
    #11 5 years ago

    Buying pinball machines as an investment is insane unless you are a professional flipper and/or retailer.

    Buy 'em because you love 'em.

    17
    #12 5 years ago

    Getting into a hobby to make money, means it's no longer a hobby and it's now a business.

    11
    #13 5 years ago

    Like my accountant always says:

    ***************** Past performance is no indication of future returns ***********

    43
    #14 5 years ago

    I am all for expanding the hobby, but if we lose some investor types as a result of getting new runs on the most desirable games, that's nothing but extra frosting on a pretty dang awesome cupcake.

    17
    #15 5 years ago

    If the couple grand that your MM just dropped really affects your interest in the hobby, you were in the hobby for the wrong reasons.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    On one side, it's great that they are remaking the games as it shows the hobby is alive and well. I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated. I like the collectibility aspect, trying to figure out which games will go up more than others.
    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less. I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space. Now this guy just killed the market. It's a little frustrating. Yes I'm sure it's great for distributors and those who wanted games for less.

    I'm sorry you lost some value on your top-tier machines, but that is a risk with any investment. And you are obviously not into it for the "hobby" if you feel this way. You are a collector, you are into it for the investment/return value/collectability and speculation of future value. That is all fine and well too, but like any collectable, the market can drop out in a heartbeat, as it did with sports cards and memorabilia and muscle cars.

    The hobby is really about PLAYING and ENJOYING any and all machines, learning about them, working on them, regardless of value/popularity, joining competitions, playing with friends in the mancave and drinking some beers. Just because something is ranked high in lists does not mean it is the best game either, opinions vary wildly, and that is what makes life great. Case and point, I think Pinbot is a better game that most in the top 10, it ranks what, 66 on here? That's great for me, because if you base your prices on popularity, it makes it a cheaper game to get (mine was $1000, which is just about as much as I can afford anyway). The only game that was somewhat high on the list I own is Funhouse, but that also was not an expensive game to get for me ($1500). I could also care less whether or not they appreciate in value or not, if they're remade, upgraded/made better, etc. I'm happy now with what I have. And if that suddenly changes and Funhouse is worth 3x as much over night, the only thing that would sway me to sell it to buy a brand new one would be if it is announced they are being reproduced.

    #17 5 years ago

    Lets not all forget..... without pinflation this remake would not be happening!?

    Cant see a remake or a FTLE going down soon

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space.

    That's a shame.

    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less.

    Nope, you're wrong. Now there will many more, and more people enjoying them. This makes the games worth much more.

    Maybe it is time you leave the hobby. It would be nice if your collection found an owner that wasn't so selfish.

    #20 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Like my accountant always says:
    ***************** Past performance is no indication of future returns ***********

    Your accountant apparently didn't factor in Michael Jordan, Joe Montana, Jack Welch, ...and oh yea...the original Medieval Madness!!

    #21 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space.

    Try to collect stamps, you can save a lot of space.

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    I am all for expanding the hobby, but if we lose some investor types as a result of getting new runs on the most desirable games, that's nothing but extra frosting on a pretty dang awesome cupcake.

    Couldn't have said it better my self! Hmmm extra frosted cupcakes.

    #23 5 years ago

    well you better sell all your games before they are worthless. you know you could play them and enjoy them. thats what they are fore. incase you didnt know.

    #24 5 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Well goodbye then
    Sell your rapidly depreciating assets now & let the rest of us play pinball
    We will survive just fine without pinflation

    ++1

    It wasn't a hobby if you're in it for the asset appreciation..

    #25 5 years ago

    Will 1000 MMs really satisfy demand? I think not. The originals I think will still hold their value , over here in the UK MMs are around 6K ($8.5) for a real nice example. As nmeun87007 said originals will still be worth more, everyone wants the NOS ORIGINAL parts for pinballs and pay a premium for it. How many of these MMs will go out on route my bet is none they will be snapped up by collectors who won't want to part with them so cycle will repeat! Worldwide 1000 is nothing. If 1000 were exclusive to the US market, not likely.

    An Original WILLIAMS branded machine will not loose much, say around 1-2 K?

    I paid £3.5K ($4.5) for mine about 3 yrs ago in great shape, so I guess I'm OK still.

    #26 5 years ago

    If you watched the video, they said 1000 at first, but they have the right to make more.

    Quoted from Pinhead1982:

    Will 1000 MMs really satisfy demand? I think not.

    #27 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pinhead1982:

    I paid £3.5K ($4.5) for mine about 3 yrs ago in great shape, so I guess I'm OK still.

    Wow. Perhaps I should pick one up while I am still in the U.K. this month!

    By the way, the dollar is down against the pound. I bought some pounds the other day for $1.75 each. Ouch!

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    On one side, it's great that they are remaking the games as it shows the hobby is alive and well. I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated. I like the collectibility aspect, trying to figure out which games will go up more than others.
    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less. I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space. Now this guy just killed the market. It's a little frustrating. Yes I'm sure it's great for distributors and those who wanted games for less.

    1000 games remake. 10's of 1000's who have wanted this title for a long time. Although I appreciate your honesty, you are complaining to the wrong crowd man. Rick at PP hasn't killed ANY market man, these are limited remakes only. Your original MM is still highly valued.
    Go tell it to the frogs.

    #29 5 years ago

    Sounds like you were in it for the Money aspect of buying and reselling higher later on. Well, that may not work out for you on MM, for now. Oh well. Not every investment in the stock market is a winner either.

    #30 5 years ago

    I think everyone is overreacting. I think this doesn't really affect the value of the original MM machines. It's not like the new one is the same as the original. And, no, I don't own one. To me, this is no different than Stern putting out yet another $8000 machine. People will buy it and the market for individual machines will continue to be driven by demand. If anything, I think the high cost of ALL of the new machines has driven up the value of the so-called A-list and B-list machines as most people either cant afford the new games or would simply rather pay only $1500-$3000 for a really nice game. Anyway, surfnrg, if you want to get rid of that CC before it's too late, I'm over in Walden, NY.

    12
    #31 5 years ago

    The guys that have originals because they love the game haven't lost a dime because they are not selling them however the flippers just took a dry poke in the whiskers.
    A win/win for the hobby.

    -1
    #32 5 years ago

    Just to follow up...case in point... what impact did Stern's IJ have on the Williams IJ? Exactly. Zero. Different machine. I didn't hear anyone complain that their Williams IJ value was killed when the Stern was released. Reason? Because it didn't happen. And it wont with MM either.

    -2
    #33 5 years ago

    You wont be missed. Lets give pinball back to the fans, and thanks god the flippers and investers are leaving.

    Good luck in finding a new hobby to destroy.

    #34 5 years ago

    I honestly think the pin industry could handle 2-3k MMs. It is a great game and one many could not afford or afford to put on route until now. I can only hope more of this happens so that more of us can enjoy playing.

    #35 5 years ago
    Quoted from UKCatsFan76:

    I honestly think the pin industry could handle 2-3k MMs.

    We will soon find out.

    1000 LEs and then as many regulars as they care to make.....

    #36 5 years ago

    But for the love of god, please make all the LEs before you start churning out regulars. LOL.

    #37 5 years ago

    ...and the hobby will be better without you!

    #38 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    On one side, it's great that they are remaking the games as it shows the hobby is alive and well. I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated. I like the collectibility aspect, trying to figure out which games will go up more than others.
    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less. I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space. Now this guy just killed the market. It's a little frustrating. Yes I'm sure it's great for distributors and those who wanted games for less.

    Brian, I've enjoyed your company and your collection and I hope to again one day. More goodness in the world is always a good thing, for the world. When you find yourself feeling otherwise its a good opportunity for self assessment. Come over and play some of my Sterns! Ill straighten you out. I happen to own a TRULY rare game. Come and play some CSi. ))

    #39 5 years ago
    Quoted from gac:

    Just to follow up...case in point... what impact did Stern's IJ have on the Williams IJ? Exactly. Zero. Different machine. I didn't hear anyone complain that their Williams IJ value was killed when the Stern was released. Reason? Because it didn't happen. And it wont with MM either.

    You cannot be serious with this post. Can you?

    #40 5 years ago

    pinball remakes will get more people to drop into the hobby! and stay in longer.

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from gac:

    Just to follow up...case in point... what impact did Stern's IJ have on the Williams IJ? Exactly. Zero. Different machine. I didn't hear anyone complain that their Williams IJ value was killed when the Stern was released. Reason? Because it didn't happen. And it wont with MM either.

    2 different games.

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    You cannot be serious with this post. Can you?

    I can be but I'm not. :wink:Just trying to bring a little levity to what some people are treating as Black Friday.

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from Pinhead1982:

    How many of these MMs will go out on route my bet is none they will be snapped up by collectors who won't want to part with them so cycle will repeat!

    Honestly, I don't think it will be that many. That's actually what surprised me about this more than anything - if the price for these had been a little less, they could have sold a *lot* more to operators who want a proven commodity that they already have, but brand new. If they had priced these at $6500 and didn't make them limited, I bet they could have sold another 2,000 to ops.

    It's a VERY interesting pricing strategy that seems to be specifically targeting the home collector community. I think that it will definitely work, but I'm personally very curious to see if potential future remakes hold the same price or cheaper. You don't see many Stern LEs on route, but you see a lot of Stern Pros out there. I doubt many ops will buy these at this price.

    #44 5 years ago

    Three years ago I bought my Shelby GT500 convertible for $41,000 with 600 miles on it. I bought it from the original owner. He gave me all the receipts for everything he had done (standard stuff for that car...exhaust and lowering). He lost $20,000 on that car in a year when he sold it to me with 600 careful miles on it. I have since put another $6000 into totally reversible extras...and the value of it has dropped another $10,000 since I bought it despite only having 8000 miles on it. Its a hobby. I have never complained about the devaluation and I expected it because it is a hobby. You throw stupid money at it, but you enjoy it in the meanwhile. I never even planned on the vehicle appreciating in my lifetime despite the fact that they only make 2500 of them a year. You buy them to enjoy them. Sure....you don't drive them in the snow or salt, and not even in the rain. But they still go down in value and thats the way it is. So why should pinball be any different? Because of increase in demand and no increase in supply.

    Pinball games always depreciated like too that except for the last 6 years or so because manufacturers went out of business. Supply and demand. And the supply used to be cheap because there was little demand for it. When the internet started people found out that used pinball games could actually be acquired for home use and the cycle began. It was a situation of pent up demand. So guys bought up their favorite games from their youth for home use and kept on buying more. That trend continued. Some owners started thinking pinballs were immune to depreciation and actually started using them as investments. Friends came to peoples basements and played and they wanted one too. Guys enjoyed their hobby, turned their friends on to it and did not lose any money doing it. It worked for quite awhile.

    So when older pinball games start selling for $20,000 how can anyone not think that a smart business person will make a new and improved version of it for less money for the masses who want it so badly? Stern simply accelerated the consumer process by keeping their prices at old levels while cheapening up their games. So pinheads quickly figured out they were getting more game for their money in old B/WMS games and chose them instead of new crappy games (Austin Powers comes to mind) the prices went up with no supply to fill the void.

    We only have a "bubble" in certain titles because people are smart and figured out how to make money on the stupidly high prices. Game restorers did very well and provided a sorely needed service. Obviously Planetary figured out quickly that profits could be made by providing a service too, and they own the rights to many old games. If they were not in business we would not even be able to buy new parts for our older games and someone would be making them in their basement and charging much higher prices for parts. Planetary is a business, just as Bally/Williams was, and if they see a demand they would have been stupid to not supply the demand. Original perfect condition games will not be affected by this new release, but thank goodness they days of buying a beat up routed MM for $8000 are over for now.

    Yes...some speculators will get burned in this. But it won't be as bad as buying a new car. We take that hit every day and don't whine about it. Get used to a little bit of depreciation if it happens. Its a hobby folks....not a stock market investment. Play your games and enjoy them.

    #45 5 years ago
    Quoted from surfnrg:

    On one side, it's great that they are remaking the games as it shows the hobby is alive and well. I always justified my pinball purchases as a guilt free hobby, as the games always appreciated. I like the collectibility aspect, trying to figure out which games will go up more than others.
    This whole thing about remaking games, makes the games worth much less. I stocked up in high end titles because I ran out of space. Now this guy just killed the market. It's a little frustrating. Yes I'm sure it's great for distributors and those who wanted games for less.

    I'm sorry, but please leave the hobby. It sounds like you were in it for the wrong reasons anyway.

    -4
    #46 5 years ago
    Quoted from lordloss:

    I'm sorry, but please leave the hobby. It sounds like you were in it for the wrong reasons anyway.

    Who are you to tell people why they should or shouldn't enjoy pinball machines? Is there a set of defined "right reasons" somewhere I missed?

    #47 5 years ago

    #48 5 years ago
    Quoted from CraZ4Pin:

    Who are you to tell people why they should or shouldn't enjoy pinball machines? Is there a set of defined "right reasons" somewhere I missed?

    I'm not telling anyone, he told us. He is probably a shelf collector anyway. Someone who has a row of pins for show/investment and don't get any play.

    #49 5 years ago

    He is right. These remakes will absolutely ruin this hobby.

    They have to stop this remake run. I think they ought to stop remaking replacement parts too. That would really make this hobby awesome.

    Replacement parts and pin remakes will just gut this hobby. I can't imagine anyone would want to play these games now.

    15
    #50 5 years ago

    Everytime a rich person cries about pinball, broken optos the world over suddenly start working. True story.

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