(Topic ID: 293445)

Pinball quality and support review 2021

By Aniraf

2 years ago



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    #1 2 years ago

    Before you read...if you don't care for opinions stop here. I rarely write anything like this but I just felt like getting my opinions out in case it could help a new player/buyer. I don't need a bunch of comments about how I am right or wrong because these are just opinions and none of what I think really matters unless you like opinions .

    Roughly five years ago when I entered into the world of pinball I gleamed that Stern was known for making "low quality" machines with "high prices" and "terrible support". It seemed like almost every thread I would read had at least 30% of the participants complaining about how the company does business and how their mission is always focused on money over quality. As a result, I was hesitant to buy my first Stern machine. Spooky and American Pinball appeared better, but also it appeared that people hated Stern so much they were willing to tolerate mistakes and imperfections from the smaller companies.

    Well, for anyone who might be entering the hobby today I wanted to write an overview of my personal experience as an owner and small-time operator. Seeing as this is the internet and I firmly believe opinions should not be viewed as facts, I implore anyone reading this to do their own research.

    For context: I own 80s Williams, 90s Bally, Spike 2 Stern, modern Spooky and American Pinball machines. I have worked on other machines from roughly the same stock as what I currently own. I form my own opinions and try really hard not to be influenced by brand or popular opinion.

    I'm going to try to break this down into sections for anyone who is interested enough to review my opinions . I'm mainly going to focus on Stern, American Pinball and Spooky as I don't have enough experience with JJP or some of the other boutique shops.

    Cabinet--------------------------------------------------------
    When I think about the cabinet I am mainly focused on two things...how is it constructed and how does it look.

    I currently view Stern as the best. Stern's cabinets are very structurally sound. I consider the decision to use mostly metal backboxes as evolutionary in terms of quality and weight distribution. The leg brackets are substantial and the bolts do not seem to loosen after 1,000+ games. The cabinets look very sleek and hold the decals very well. I've not yet seen any signs of decals peeling or bubbling on any of my Stern machines.

    American Pinball is in second place. Their cabinets are absolute tanks. While I appreciate their solid design, I find the extra weight to be a bit of a burden when moving them in and out of locations. Both of my American Pinball machines have minor issues with the decals applied to the cabinet. Small bubbles or ripples in the artwork that existed from the moment I unboxed them. I don't love the flare of their back box but I completely respect their decision to do something unique and defining. If I started a pinball company I would probably try to do the same.

    Spooky takes third in this round. Their cabinets are fine, but the build quality always seems a little off compared to the other two. I've had experience with the legs getting loose and things being slightly out of square. Where they really shine is the "butter" edition. The artwork on the butter cabinet is extremely impressive. I don't know exactly how they do the butter version but it is awesome. Nothing but clean corners and perfect artwork.

    Electronics--------------------------------------------------------
    In the category of electronics I look at the layout of wiring, the supportability of the mechs and components, and performance of the total system.

    Stern is dominant in this category. The wiring layout and use of wiring harnesses seems extremely well thought out for these machines. The layout of the critical components is great! Every critical system component lives neatly in the backbox with fantastic labeling and ease of access while all of the wiring is clearly channeled into the cabinet. Every major mech or removable playfield component is attached via simplistic molex connectors which are typically only 1-2 inches below the playfield. This makes support and service a breeze. The performance of Spike 2 seems to be exceptional. I have never noticed a delay or hesitation in terms of everything from switch registration to animations and sound. Machines start up fast and run fairly quiet. Stern is clearly the gold standard in terms of flipper response and heat degradation. After multiple hours I still find Stern machines to feel crisp and responsive.

    Spooky and American Pinball are tied in this category. Each one has some positive and negative notes. For example, I like that American Pinball tries to bundle all three of their power supplies into a big metal "toaster" as opposed to Spooky laying them out all over the floor of the backbox but it can prove annoying to service an individual PSU. On the topic of PSUs, the FANS!!! I've been told that the fan is too loud on both my Spooky and American machines while they are in a bar! I don't know where these things come from, but I think the same company makes lawn mowers. I completely understand the use of commodity computer hardware for both companies but tend to wonder why they don't use something a little more powerful and in a smaller package. I've experienced slow downs in sound and game functions from both companies. This could be 100% code related, but I'm still going to pin it to this category. As for molex connectors and wiring, both of these companies seem to design for home use and not bother with designs that might benefit an operator. Whereas Stern might have a molex plug for a playfield mech two inches below the playfield, Spooky or AP might run three feet of zip tied wire all the way to the controller board. When you're at the bar trying to fix or replace something it can be super annoying to cut 15 zip ties and route wires. Spooky absolutely loves hot gluing every molex adapter. I'm not sure what type of plug wronged them, but I'll be damned if each of my spooky machines didn't have two lbs. of hot glue ensuring nothing could ever move. Lastly the flippers on both companies machines are simply not Stern. I don't want to rip on this because their games are fantastic and the flippers work well within the games but neither company "feels" as crisp when it comes to flipper control.

    Code/Update/Settings--------------------------------------------------------
    In the category of code/updates/settings I think about the quality of the code, the frequency of updates, and the usability of the test/settings/audits system.

    This is a really close category because all three have positives and negatives. I have to give top spot to Spooky on this one. I don't consider their UI to be the most beautiful, but it seems to be the most usable. With Rick and Morty (Blood Sucker Edition) (maybe Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle as well) they added a switch test which actually displays a real-time map of the playfield. That is EXTREMLY useful. Price settings are logical and don't have confusing layers of multipliers which feel like a hold over from an 80s game. Everything is very easy to read and very logical to configure. The two Spooky games I own have had a myriad of updates both with the developers interacting in these forums. The pace seems to be great for the titles in question and I can tell they take the code and balance really seriously.

    In second place is American Pinball. I like their "cockpit" approach to the UI. They offer the most polish in terms of visuals and they do a nice job of trying to give you an overall "health" of your machine. Error messages are crystal clear and I've always known exactly what to diagnose. The switch testing panel is smart. Although it isn't as cool as the real-time playfield map, it does a nice job of allowing you to see everything at once. Like Spooky all of their descriptions are clear and easy to understand. On the topic of code updates, American Pinball has done an exceptional job. I think back to my unboxed Oktoberfest vs. what it eventually became. They seem really good at building on top of their platform and advancing both the quality and features.

    As for Stern, their UX is a throwback to a 90s dot matrix game. It is clunky and unclear to me. I cannot ever remember if a setting lives within the standard machine settings, the machine specific settings, or the mech specific settings. You can absolutely accomplish everything you would ever need from the interface but I find myself annoyed every time I have to do it. For example I've toggled pricing vs. free play settings on my stern machines at least 100 times. Literally every single time I do it I feel like it is the first time I've ever tried to find the setting. It is pretty much the same experience as interfacing with my Pinbot. In the world of code updates I actually think they do a great job. The negative being that Stern goes to sleep on their games after a while in order to focus on newer titles. Neither Spooky or American Pinball have the same kind of product depth so it isn't fair to judge Stern too harshly. The overall quality of their code is stellar and the game play is exceptional.

    Playfield--------------------------------------------------------
    In the playfield category I'll review art/print, durability of the surface and topside plastic/mechs, and ease of cleaning/disassembly. (Full disclosure: I use playfield-protectors for my machines which are on location).

    This is another really hard category as every company has positive and negative aspects. Overall I'm going to give it to Stern by a slim margin. I find Stern's playfield quality to be very consistent. The art is vibrant, the clear coat is solid and the wood seems durable. I am not a huge dimple fanatic but I can absolutely recognize them and the frequency at which they occur. My stern machines do a good job of withstanding a decent amount of play on location and I have yet to experience any pooling or chipping of the clear coat. Where Stern edges the competition is the approach to the stacked components. Servicing or cleaning the top side of a Stern machine is always extremely logical and well designed. For example, removing the upper playfield from Black Knight Sword of Rage (LE) takes five screws and can be done very quickly. This is in part because of their smart designs around molex adapters and clean wiring layouts. Lastly, Stern uses the best flipper mechs/arms. I personally can't stand the flipper arms with that stupid welded washer on the end of a threaded rod. That is simply not a design meant for anything more than one installation. I don't love any of the flipper arms but if you're going to pick one, pick the Stern style.

    Just a hair behind Stern I give my vote to Spooky. Spooky's latest playfield may be impervious to normal wear and tear. I've scrutinized the Rick and Morty (Blood Sucker Edition) playfield and after 1,000 balls I have yet to notice even "cleanable" ball trails. On Stern and American Pinball's playfields I always see the effect of normal play. Sure a little Novus 1 will clean that right off but this new Spooky playfield seems like a step above. My only nit is that it is too thin for standard flipper bushings. As most of the Rick and Morty (Blood Sucker Edition) owners will tell you, the flipper bats are hovering above the playfield which may have some impact on the spin of the ball. It seems like a strange design considering flipper bushings have been the same size and shape since the late 70s but I don't claim to be an expert on this topic. Another interesting note about Spooky's playfield is that the Total Nuclear Annihilation playfield I own is the worst playfield I have. I understand this was a mistake and the company was super bummed...shit happens and I can tolerate mistakes. The only reason I call it out is because they went from something inferior to something superior in a very short time. As a new buyer, I think it is important to recognize the commitment to improvement and quality control.

    Last, but not really, is American Pinball. When I think of my machines, I have to say American Pinball typically has the most difficult playfields to service and clean. Both of my AP games have layers of hardware and plastics which make it such that there is a very specific order of operations needed when you have to get all the way down to the playfield surface. Take this with a grain of salt because my first American Pinball machine was Oktoberfest which plays off the insane amounts of layering and awesome mechs. As cool as all of that stuff is, it comes at a cost. I tend to think that Stern would have simplified the parts for easier installation/service...at the same time Stern may not have even attempted all of that cool stuff because of the complexity. American Pinball's playfields have been absolutely solid for me with the exception that I actually think they've gone slightly backwards. My Oktoberfest playfield is rock hard compared to my Hot Wheels. Don't take this out of context...they are both great and neither have pooled or chipped but the Hot Wheels playfield has dimpled at a much faster rate and shows a lot more wear. This is possibly because of the decision to use a more matte clear coat. I also want to call out the "genius flap" that American Pinball uses to ensure the balls don't fly out of the trough when you raise the playfield. I love that thing and I think everyone else should as well.

    Overall each of these companies provides a great experience with room to improve. I would love to see the companies use plastics which don't warp or gain impressions based on their mounting. I think all three companies could consider a few dabs of lock tight when doing top side assembly. And it would be amazing if someone designed a flipper arm that wasn't just a brick of metal you are trying to bed tight enough to hold the flipper shaft. I mean, you know what happens when you repeatedly bend metal right?

    Support--------------------------------------------------------
    With the support category I'll comment on my experiences with the support from each company.

    This topic is situational as each interaction with support has been driven by different factors. I believe I've had enough experience with each company to rank them, but your mileage may vary.

    The best support I have received is American Pinball. This is a company who will sit on the phone with you for hours, text, review videos, communicate on these forums, etc. They seem to treat my cases as a top concern. They answer the phone on nights and weekends and seem to go out of their way to fulfill your needs. It is relevant to note that I've had the largest NIB problems with an American Pinball machine. Fortunately they treated me like an expert and have never undermined my tests or attempts to diagnose issues. No pinball manufacturer can be immune to issues but in American's case they step right up and get into it with you. Even their request for service routes through an elegant form on their site where I know that I've reserved my place in line and they will help me as soon as they can.

    I hate ties, but this one is so close it feels dirty to call them second place. I started this post talking about how I was lead to believe Stern support sucks and I'm wrapping it up by saying that simply has not been my experience. Stern support has been absolutely fantastic for me. Stern has replaced everything from playfield toys with a "weird lean" all the way to a delivery scratched lockbar. Pablo at Stern is absolutely amazing. I honestly feel like I could email him with any question or comment and he would dive right on it. I know that cannot possibly be scalable so I try really hard to self-service, but I'll be damned if he hasn't always delivered in spades. I mean, I asked him about a specific undocumented screw on my Black Knight Sword of Rage (LE) and he ended up sourcing the engineering drawings for me. I cc'ed him on an email to my friend and said "can you help him out" and he fired up a claim and helped him. Like American Pinball I almost feel like these guys would come over to my house and help out if they could. I find that super impressive at the scale of Stern.

    In third place is Spooky. I want to make it clear that Spooky has been phenomenal to work with. They are absolutely available and have, without question, replaced things immediately when needed. In my opinion they take the third spot only because I have had a few problems which they just couldn't resolve. For example, the playfield issues with Total Nuclear Annihilation. I fully understand that they felt horrible and cannot afford to be swapping out whole playfields but I guess I would have liked a little extra white glove service on that one. As most of you know, it sucks when you realize your clear is chipping on a brand new game. It would have been absolutely amazing had they proactively reached out to the buyers they knew to be affected and sent some kind of care package of washers and maybe a shirt or something. I want to make it super clear, I am not and was not looking for anything from them. Shit happens and I know team Spooky did everything they could to make it right while trying to grow a successful company. I think Rick and Morty (Blood Sucker Edition) is another opportunity where they could do a little bit of a better job educating the owners. In my opinion it would be cool if they either came out and said "the flipper bushings are fine, don't worry about it" or "we've got a fix and here is when you could expect it". They are awesome at communicating on the forums but also very cautious to commit or explain the plan. Scott Danesi is a bit of an edge case for them. Scott seems to live on these forums and I cannot count the amount of public fixes he has done for owners of Total Nuclear Annihilation. I don't know if Scott actually works for Spooky or if he just works with them but his approach to service and support appears to be top tier.

    Wrap up--------------------------------------------------------
    Well, I just wrote an f'ing novel. I didn't expect to do that but like I said...I rarely do and I felt like it would be cool to give my opinions for anyone looking into pinball ownership. I'm sure nobody will read all this crap, but if you do I hope it helps to give you an additional perspective. All three of these companies seem committed and passionate about their products. I think you would be way off base trying to say X company is better than Y company when in reality even the biggest company (Stern) appears to build quality products for fair market prices. I think it is amazing that we have all of them and I cannot wait to get my hands on a JJP machine such that I can understand how they operate as well. I don't think that pinball has ever been more amazing than it is right now and new buyers shouldn't hesitate to buy a NIB game.

    #3 2 years ago

    Yeah, That is most likely the case. There are so many inconsistencies in the materials.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    You had no experiences with Jersey Jack Pinball or Chicago Gaming Company ?
    LTG : )

    I only commented on the companies I have experience with. I don’t own any JJP. I guess I have had experience with CGC, but it is limited. I would feel bad reviewing them on this level

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