(Topic ID: 288095)

Pinball pricing bubble due to Covid one nine?

By JohnTTwo

8 months ago


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  • 32 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 days ago by thechakapakuni
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#1 8 months ago

Man I have always loved pinball, not like some of you guys on this site though. I only have a T2 and Deluxe 8 ball. Use to have Paragon. I was thinking of building my own little arcade at our home but just can't seem to get in front of any good deals.

Just lost a Addams to I assume a reseller, is it okay to call a shop or reseller a flipper in the pinball world. Nice machine for 6,500 on CL. I knew I should have just Venmo'ed them the money ASAP to get it locked down for me.

I am just feel like there is huge run up in prices now and being a patient buyer wonder if waiting to buy once people who are one game buyers decide they need the room and start selling games , then the price drop happens.

How strong and long do you think this run up in prices will be or last?

Thanks John My apologies if this post is in the wrong spot.

22
#2 8 months ago

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

#3 8 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

19 days? I've heard 37.5 days!

#4 8 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

You Heard it Here First Folks.

#5 8 months ago

In all seriousness, ever since I have been on this site there has been a "the bubble is about to burst! This is unsustainable!" vibe on pinball pricing. The old timers will tell you that has been the case for 10-15 years now. My advice to you: if you are not the type to rotate pins frequently, just pony up the extra money to get the game that is not an amazing deal but just fair market. That $6,500 Addams will be a $7,200 Adams in the next year or two.

#6 8 months ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

Just lost a Addams to I assume a reseller, is it okay to call a shop or reseller a flipper in the pinball world. Nice machine for 6,500 on CL. I knew I should have just Venmo'ed them the money ASAP to get it locked down for me.

It's OK to call a flipper a flipper. Sending cash before you see the pin in person is risky, so avoid that since there aren't many good deals on CL/FB.

Check and see if there is a pinball owners forum in your state/region or get to know local owners you can safely trade/buy/sell with.

Also, be patient. They made a lot of TAF, so a deal will come along.

#7 8 months ago

The cheap Pinball Boat has sailed . Lots of new first time buyers due to covid and we all know what happens after you buy your first game .Demand goes up supply goes down Price goes UP

#8 8 months ago

Pricing definitely dipped in the summer. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t dip a little again as people have other things to do with their time. It’s just common sense.

#9 8 months ago

I don’t like to fuel the bubble conversation but with the stern price increases , covid manufacturing issues, and tax implications where I live, the used market has never been more expensive. Kinda sucks. I’ll be more inclined to hold on to my games these days.

#10 8 months ago

Covid-related issues have caused an artificial spike in prices. Between all the quarantine people buying pins and the manufacturing delays, prices have become more inflated than they would have otherwise. I missed out on an EHOH for under $7K about 10 months ago, now everyone wants more than NIB pricing for it due to low supply (largely from backorders). Several other recent Sterns I'm looking for are $1500+ more than I could have gotten them a year ago.

I think it's fair to wonder whether games will recede to the pre-pandemic price level and trajectory once supply chain issues are resolved. I would assume that as supply hurdles are overcome, the used market will settle back in. But there's also the possibility that prices only go up, and this is the new norm.

Either way, I think this is a slightly different discussion from the normal "the bubble is gonna burst" thread we get repeatedly.

#11 8 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

Despite our disagreements I can ALWAYS count on Levi to chime in with these “bubble price” threads. You aren’t the first person OP, to notice the price increase
Seriously just go to the forum and search “bubble”

...it’s exhausting.

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Despite our disagreements I can ALWAYS count on Levi to chime in with these “bubble price” threads.
Seriously just go to the forum and search “bubble”
...it’s exhausting.

He’s slacking. He usually has a list of all the bubble threads queued up ready to post.

#13 8 months ago
Quoted from JayDee:

He’s slacking. He usually has a list of all the bubble threads queued up ready to post.

The list for 2020/21 would take up an entire page already.
But that list is always great, love the dates too!

27
#14 8 months ago

Fine, fine...like the Stones playing Satisfaction again I gotta give the fans what they want! Updated for 2021!

2000:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J

2001:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ

2002:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ

2003:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ

2004:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ

2005:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J

2006:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ

2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ

2008:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ

2009:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ

2010:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ

2011:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ

2012:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again

2013:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop

2014:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble

2015:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball

2016:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst

2017:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble

2018:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet

2019:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-

2020:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-

2021:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine

#15 8 months ago

The price for a really nice Addams has always been climbing despite the amount made...many are in the "players condition" and still fetching a commanding price..and, they still sell fast. It's just TAF..it is what it is.

#16 8 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Fine, fine...like the Stones playing Satisfaction again I gotta give the fans what they want! Updated for 2021!
2000:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/gzU8ZAOxvUE/qII_fx4klQ0J
2001:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/3XZf_itbXjY/QI04T4Qr9UkJ
2002:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/8CDhldb5kyw/JxQRQPIGmQwJ
2003:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20market$20price$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/clAO0zIHHfQ/CbExiOZrldIJ
2004:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20decrease%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/pXZDb-2V6Yk/GSPWq06-nWsJ
2005:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/ACTs0HpQktA/x-C5LZAF180J
2006:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20price$20bubble%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/dBrqPnk7mkk/nQYyh65_fewJ
2007:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pinball$20prices$20fall%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/femnxuH8a1k/oeXzsItDbOQJ
2008:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/44iMVjwb68o/wXb8-3F9vOIJ
2009:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/JsgTrS05pCc/8pB5t9oUqTAJ
2010:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/pricing$20market%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/hNRZGnOAZ-Y/bs8Js1M7sUAJ
2011:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.games.pinball/high$20prices$20market$20collapse%7Csort:date/rec.games.pinball/DlcZoruS0Bo/VO_cueyPCEQJ
2012:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-think-it-cant-happen-think-again
2013:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-price-bubble-will-pop
2014:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/this-is-not-a-rebirth-of-pinball-its-a-bubble
2015:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/we-all-want-the-ass-to-drop-out-of-pinball
2016:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-will-the-stern-bubble-burst
2017:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-we-in-a-pinball-bubble
2018:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-i-feel-pinball-prices-are-going-to-plummet
2019:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/will-pinball-prices-come-down-
2020:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/prices-dropping-
2021:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-pricing-bubble-due-to-covid-one-nine

For someone like me that is still relatively new to the hobby, it is crazy to go back and read some of the complaints/quotes from those RGP threads...

"I think Addams Family is a benchmark game, good demand and decent supply. Two years ago they were $1800 -$1950 shopped. Today they are $2200."

"Why pay $4000 for a used, beat MM"

"I'm asking $2900 for my Scared Stiff, which is in awesome condition. I admit that's a little more than I have into it, but not a lot more. Ron Salny is asking $2800 for his beautiful Indiana Jones. Now that's the highest asking price I've seen on an Indy for a long time"

"Someone bought my Black Rose with a flawless playfield and spare parts for $1250 back six months ago"

"I get a premium price for a truly premium game (examples: MB for $3850, SS for $3000, Stargate for $1900"

"$2800 for IJ is insane. I don't care how clean it is - all the parts to refurb IJ are available aftermarket, and a Saturday spent disassembling it and putting it back together clean doesn't make it worth $1000 more"

#17 8 months ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Pricing definitely dipped in the summer. I’d be surprised if it doesn’t dip a little again as people have other things to do with their time. It’s just common sense.

I got some amazing deals last spring/summer.

#18 8 months ago

I’m waiting to buy JJP’s Toy Story @ 10,500 to have it increase to 11,500 midway through its production to pay for my other fun.

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#19 8 months ago

Been waiting for the bubble to burst for a decade, and it hasn't.

On the flipside I am getting rid of a keeper (scheduled trade) because the value of the game has exceeded what it is worth to me. Creature is close to that point as well.

Buddy was over friday night. GF joins in and we are playing 3 player games. Whatever someone feels like. Most played game? Full Throttle. If I listed it at 3500, it would sit unless someone is searching for it. Bang for the buck is great. Mystery Castle? Creature? Alien I only let people play a few games on as I need to zip tie a bunch of cabling and move the computer and power supply around.

So, for me it is at a point where its just too much money. I can afford it, but I cannot justify it to myself. Some of these games are not 3-4-5x the fun of others. If the bubble did burst, I'd just end up rebuying. On the other hand, if I am at a point where I cannot see the value, wonder how many others are also in that boat?

#20 8 months ago

My financial advisor has informed me that pinball machines are the ultimate hedge against inflation. With the government's recent covid stimulus money printing schemes and imminent inflation incoming, I have been advised to relocate all of my liquidity into the lucrative pinball machine market. In the past 14 days I have traded 24 troy ounces of gold bullion for a player's condition FunHouse and two Comet's with trashed playfields and melted center ramps.

Now is the time to buy!!

#21 8 months ago
Quoted from radium:

My financial advisor has informed me that pinball machines are the ultimate hedge against inflation. With the government's recent covid stimulus money printing schemes and imminent inflation incoming, I have been advised to relocate all of my liquidity into the lucrative pinball machine market. In the past 14 days I have traded 24 troy ounces of gold bullion for a player's condition FunHouse and two Comet's with trashed playfields and melted center ramps.
Now is the time to buy!!

I love those ads you see on cable news telling us to buy buy buy gold and silver as it's the greatest possible investment.

If that were actually true, why would they be trying to sell gold and silver during daytime tv? Wouldn't they just hoard all the gold and silver and become kings?

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

19 Business days?

#23 8 months ago

Obviously. Market doesn't move on the weekend.

#24 8 months ago

I've missed these kind of threads. I wasn't even aware prices had risen. Has it gone up a lot? Is there something I can do about it? Should I sell all my games now? If Covid One Nine goes away, does everything drop? I need to know, because I don't want to get stuck with all these games if the bubble pops. They would only be good for drinking beer with friends as we stare at them.

#25 8 months ago

I'd say that the most recent escalation in pricing can definitely by tied to Covid. Covid is the reason why the Feds have been able to pull trillions out of its ass and pour it into the economy through stimulus and promises of "unlimited liquidity" to prop up markets. The end result is that everyone is feeling like a rich guy.

#26 8 months ago

I feel more comfortable asking 700 for a serviced EM that would have went for 600 6 Months ago.

#27 8 months ago
Quoted from radium:

My financial advisor has informed me that pinball machines are the ultimate hedge against inflation. With the government's recent covid stimulus money printing schemes and imminent inflation incoming, I have been advised to relocate all of my liquidity into the lucrative pinball machine market. In the past 14 days I have traded 24 troy ounces of gold bullion for a player's condition FunHouse and two Comet's with trashed playfields and melted center ramps.
Now is the time to buy!!

You got a helluva deal! At a spot price of $1,793, those games only cost you $43,032!

#28 8 months ago
Quoted from DBLM:

You got a helluva deal! At a spot price of $1,793, those games only cost you $43,032!

But I bought the gold in 1969! Not such a bad deal anymore right?

#29 8 months ago

i have been dealing with machines daily for 25 years and i have never seen them dip, ever. Most rise, hold steady, then rise.... and continue this trend.
Some low end ems remain (jubilee, big indian, king kool, rogo, etc), but nothing drops.

#30 8 months ago

People talk about the potential for the pinball "price bubble" to burst, but I have to ask the simple question..."Why would it burst?" Owners en masse aren't suddenly going to decide that they hate pinball and must get rid of all their games fast. Sure, people run out of space and need to sell/trade to make room, but there are enough new buyers to compensate for that.

So honestly, what would cause the bubble to burst? This isn't like stocks or something.

#31 8 months ago

It’s like saying 67 SS Camaro prices will go down someday.

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#32 8 months ago

Put it this way .I’ve had all kinds of hobbies in my life .Fishing :buy a boat ,rods,tackle,trips and I have a lot of memories but in the end at a 80% loss .Golf: buy clubs,shoes,weird clothing ,greens fees over n over not many memories at a 90% loss .Now I have the hobby I’ve been looking for my whole adult life Pinball: buy machine play it over n over n over ,mods ,parts and in the end anywhere from a 15% loss to 40% gain .There’s nothing to complain about pricing in this hobby it flows like a Ritchie pin

#33 8 months ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

Put it this way .I’ve had all kinds of hobbies in my life .Fishing :buy a boat ,rods,tackle,trips and I have a lot of memories but in the end at a 80% loss .Golf: buy clubs,shoes,weird clothing ,greens fees over n over not many memories at a 90% loss .Now I have the hobby I’ve been looking for my whole adult life Pinball: buy machine play it over n over n over ,mods ,parts and in the end anywhere from a 15% loss to 40% gain .There’s nothing to complain about pricing in this hobby it flows like a Ritchie pin

Low play quality pins are getting more and more rare. The remakes did affect prices. New duds will be back to dud pricing after covid. Good playing games always have value.

#34 8 months ago
Quoted from Onwallst:

Low play quality pins are getting more and more rare. The remakes did affect prices. New duds will be back to dud pricing after covid. Good playing games always have value.

I’m recently new I couldn’t believe what original AFM ,MM etc went for before CGC.Seems like what’s going on w JJP pirates right now .

#35 8 months ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

People talk about the potential for the pinball "price bubble" to burst, but I have to ask the simple question..."Why would it burst?" Owners en masse aren't suddenly going to decide that they hate pinball and must get rid of all their games fast. Sure, people run out of space and need to sell/trade to make room, but there are enough new buyers to compensate for that.
So honestly, what would cause the bubble to burst? This isn't like stocks or something.

Bingo. This. ^

Other things to consider:

-For classic games, only a finite amount exist & that will never change. The cheap broken projects from arcades/garages/auctions/warehouses are pretty much gone. Snapped up & restored years ago. They’re all going back into the world as nice working games...IF they go back out into the world.

-As new games rise in price, the ceiling for the classics rise as well. When Stern games were $3500 NIB, most B/W games were $1500-$2500 outside of a few like MM & MB. DE/Sega were usually about $1000 or less. Now that new games are $6000-$15,000 & friggin’ toppers are $1000+, the classics have gone up too. It’s all connected & relative.

#36 8 months ago
Quoted from Kkoss24:

I’m recently new I couldn’t believe what original AFM ,MM etc went for before CGC.Seems like what’s going on w JJP pirates right now .

There are differences. A couple years before the remakes, I remember watching a sale of an MM at a tournament in Maine (yeah, people in the northeast know where I mean). I was stunned at the price, but both the seller and the buyer were happy with it. I even helped the guy load it. After I asked the wise old pinhead WTF was with that price. His answer was very appropriate at the time... “They ain’t making any more of them”. It was so true, until it wasn’t.

The difference between then and now is that JJP is still a viable business. And someone in that business is good at math. And there is a simple equation that contains price, demand, costs to build, costs to license, good will, opportunity cost, and the actual number of games they think they could sell (which is different from demand). And if that equation tips towards the positive, there will suddenly be more copies of Pirates that lower the current value of the games.

Quoted from Rarehero:

-For classic games, only a finite amount exist & that will never change.

You’re probably right. I only say “probably” because I don’t think there is a big enough market for classic SS games like the old Bally and Stern games. Personally I’d love if there was, but realistically they wouldn’t sell enough remakes to balance the cost structure. But then again, I said the same thing before Stern did that run of Iron Man.

#37 8 months ago

Prices will continue to rise about another 30-40 years until the last people who grew up in arcades start to pass away then prices will fall a lot. Every collectible is like this.

#38 8 months ago

I also think we’ll continue to see newer younger blood in the hobby. Yeah maybe they don’t amass large collections and only buy 1 or 2, but people seem genuinely interested in pinball. You can see the excitement with people buying the arcade 1up and at games virtual pins. Let’s face it the cost to get into pinball isn’t peanuts and as more people play whether virtual or the real pins they may begin to buy as they get older or and more financially secure.

#39 8 months ago

Forget Pins as investments, the smart money is going towards toppers!!

#40 8 months ago
Quoted from jackd104:

Prices will continue to rise about another 30-40 years until the last people who grew up in arcades start to pass away then prices will fall a lot. Every collectible is like this.

Other “collectibles” are generally boring & sit on shelves or in drawers. Or, they’re replaced by more convenient practical versions of things (Jukeboxes vs. smartphones). Pinball was supposed to get killed by video games, but turns out they’re two entirely different things with different appeals. Pinball is more magical, vibrant, alive & FUN than other collectibles. That’s why it’s still a thing & I’m not sure that’s going to change, even down the road.

#41 8 months ago

Usually these types of collectibles go in trends. In the old days I had a few upright arcade games. Super Mario, Playchoice 10, Ms. Pac, Solar Fox cabaret. The market took a big dip when home consoles got really hot. People would say why have one 300 pound box that plays a single game when you can play hundreds from your couch. Seemed valid and I sold them all pretty cheap. Now I see that vintage arcades command some pretty decent money.

I did the same with a Hamm's motion sign collection. Sold it at a low point when all the old timers apparently had acquired the ones they wanted. Prices have gotten nuts on them since.

Jukeboxes took a dive some years back but have been creeping back up.

I guess my point is most things that are interesting and interactive will likely always have a market. Even if hot and cold at times.

7 months later
#42 18 days ago

Follow up to my idiotic first post and so funny it is bubble thread.

I really think if it is a bubble we have like 20 years to go before it pops. I have seen so many young people really get into pinball just this summer alone. My kids roommate will not go to a bar now unless they have pins. He is in his early 30's. My daughter in her young tweenties loves pinball and several of her friends. I don't have any idea how to gauge how popular pinball will become.

Bottom line is pinball is cool and fun so the hobbies potential is much greater then where it today.

My apologies for a newbie mistake!

#43 18 days ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The bubble is scheduled to burst in 19 days. Just hold out till then and you’ll be able to fill your arcade cheap!

Damn. I was still waiting for the 19 days which was 6 months ago. Guess I’ll never fill my arcade at this rate

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