(Topic ID: 4443)

Pinball price BUBBLE ... think it can't happen? THINK AGAIN!

By Hyperion

13 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,050 posts
  • 289 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by JWilberdog
  • Topic is favorited by 35 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Do you think there is a Pinball Price Bubble?”

    • Yes 265 votes
      45%
    • No 202 votes
      35%
    • Maybe 83 votes
      14%
    • I don't care long as I make more $$$ 33 votes
      6%

    (583 votes)

    Topic Gallery

    View topic image gallery

    720 (resized).jpg
    Beef-Stroganoff-Recipe-9 (resized).jpg
    medicine.gif
    IMG_0285 (resized).png
    C0F20021-920D-43FF-B712-0B224763EA5A.gif
    df8bcdcc-0fc4-41da-a236-dc499c05614c_text.gif
    revenge-of-the-nerds-fire-3.gif
    revenge-of-the-nerds-fire-4.gif
    06AF2B45-791D-4627-84CE-2EFEE9688266 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_1997 (resized).JPG
    IMG_2006 (resized).JPG
    IMG_1811 (resized).JPG
    Screenshot_20230719_191134_Brave (resized).jpg
    6350EBD5-B1CD-4607-82FB-D27100639F3E.gif
    IMG_8068 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_8067 (resized).jpeg
    There are 1,050 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 21.
    13
    #451 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    I can’t ever see the NIB prices going down .Has this ever happened ?

    Yes. It happens in every bubble burst thread.

    #452 1 year ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Are you suggesting something has burst?

    They’re still selling ,but things are definitely changing .The only good thing with this is we should be getting packed ,killer games from here on (actually it has been like this for Stern some time now ) and nobody needs to jump on a deposit upon reveal unless your wanting a first run Team Elwin .

    #453 1 year ago

    Man, this thread is 11 years old LOL! ‘Says it all.

    #454 1 year ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    Man, this thread is 11 years old LOL! ‘Says it all.

    I didn’t want to start another I know it’s summer and 7-9 new pins just revealed recently , but a desolate market and comments from people I know that been in this decades tell me this is the worst time in recent history to try and sell a pin .It will bounce back ,you can bet your ass but the big question is “where will the prices halt when the smoke clears ?” l

    #455 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    I can’t ever see the NIB prices going down .Has this ever happened ?

    JJP after DI & Stern at least 1 time. Of course that was Stern street price era yada yada

    #456 1 year ago

    I think jjp will have to change strategy if they want to survive.
    They have gone from underpriced stacked widebodies, to overpriced barren standard games in a couple of years.
    Maybe it would have worked if their aim was to sell a couple of hundred ce´s of every new game, but arent they intended on expanding?

    Stern is currently overpriced ikea pinball, but they manage for now, since they have the best gameplay designers. Booth godzilla and foo fighters are really fun playing experiences and jurassic park is easily one of the best games ever, even though assets where very poor.
    I cant help feeling with stern that the quality and the spike system will come to haunt buyers in the long run.

    I think prices will stagnate, and in the light of a really hefty inflation that is obviously a drop.

    #457 1 year ago

    I think it has hit a peak price wise and things will stay as is for a while. Where prices might drop a little is the used market. As for JJP and Stern they like the money they are making and don’t see them ever dropping their prices.

    #458 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    I can’t ever see the NIB prices going down .Has this ever happened ?

    Yes, with American Pinball. MSRP on Hot Wheels was about $1,000 less than their previous title Oktoberfest.

    #459 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:Yes. It happens in every bubble burst thread.

    Yes... CGC has in the past.

    #460 1 year ago

    lol

    One man wants to change the market by doing what now??

    The market and prices are dictated by supply and demand. Period.

    Nothing you do changes this.

    #461 1 year ago

    As I’ve said before, the strange part here is the new game prices just being so high. When I purchased Simpson Pinball party new in box it was $3,600 back 20 years ago. At that time a nice Fathom was about $2,000, and take a nice em such as Bally Champ was about $600, and Stern early SS we’re the cheapest.
    Today, the EM’s are worth about the same if not less than they were 20 years ago, but the SS, especially the Sterns are outrageous, and Fathom in $12,000 not $2000, plus the new Sterns, well for the top of the line add a $10k to what a Simpson cost in the day. Also they only made one version of the older games and they were great! Not cheaper versions. Just really strange times for sure.

    #462 1 year ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    While I don't think the pinball bubble will ever burst, I do believe that some of this boils down to supply and demand. The manufacturers with pins that people want cannot keep up with demand right now. How long is the backlog over at Stern right now? What month's orders of Guns and Roses are being filled right now? We are in a rare MSRP+ cash environment right now. Eventually manufacturing will catch up, and the supply chain shortage will be alleviated but I see this happening in 2023 or 2024.
    When that happens, the price will come down to earth (or at least back to MSRP +/= $500) on in demand pins like Deadpool, Jurassic Park Premium, and Elvira still in manufacturing. I think the higher prices in the secondary market are here to stay.
    Also, the number of people in the pinball market looking for late model games is higher than ever. More and more 30 somethings (like me) are getting into the hobby, and there are only so many pinball machines to go around... for now.

    Wrote the above in November 2021. I was mostly right about the used price coming back down to about NIB - $500 for Stern machines but was WAY off on Jersey Jack. Their used pin prices are cratering. Why buy a NIB G&R for 11k when used ones are sitting at under $9k? The only pins really holding value are ones you can't get new without an obscene wait... like Godzilla.

    I wonder if Stern will kill their Golden Goose by flooding the market. At first this sounds good. Prices on pins will come down if you can get NIB pins readily as they should. However, I'm at almost 60 pins through my basement in the past 5 years. I have only been able to do this because I could buy a pin, play it for a few months, then sell it for about what I paid for it. I'm mostly buying pins off of guys who buy NIB and are taking that $500 hit above. I have only been able to justify having more in pins in my basement than in my car because I could get my money back out at any time. Once this is no longer true, people may hesitate before buying that next pinball machine unless it is that rare "Dream Theme" (Weird Al got me).

    What I see coming, is a boom/bust cycle in the pinball industry so long as manufacturers are targeting the home buyer. Pinball manufacturers ramp up production until demand is met and then some. New pinball dollars compete with used pinball dollars. Eventually buying a new pin (saving "dream themes") no longer makes sense, people shift to used, demand craters, manufacturing cuts back and/or a major player can't make it and goes under, lowering the amount of supply, causing demand in the remaining manufacturers to spike. This happens a few times until we are down to a few manufacturers in a decade or so.

    I'll put my crystal ball down.

    #463 1 year ago
    Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

    I have only been able to do this because I could buy a pin, play it for a few months, then sell it for about what I paid for it. I'm mostly buying pins off of guys who buy NIB and are taking that $500 hit above. I have only been able to justify having more in pins in my basement than in my car because I could get my money back out at any time. Once this is no longer true, people may hesitate before buying that next pinball machine unless it is that rare "Dream Theme" (Weird Al got me).

    Key statement here, the bubble hasn’t burst, prices are still high, but I think the FOMO factor created by parts shortages is mostly gone, and people are being smarter about timing of purchases. Supply has increased to get closer to demand, and prices are flattening

    Buying a NIB premium/LE last year was, at worst, breakeven. Now you’ve got people realizing they can’t instantly make a few thousand by grabbing a NIB LE, and they’re back on marketplace at cost

    12
    #464 1 year ago

    When I was in college a Big Mac value meal was $2.99 and super-sizing was 30 cents extra. If you ate at the right time of day you could get by on that one meal, calorically.

    Doesn't have any relevance today, but since we're sharing.

    #465 1 year ago

    One question I have is if there is a legit graph showing the % of pinball purchasers by age groups ? Or , do the manufactures /Distros keep that locked up with the Ark also ? I really hope they’re reaching the younger crowd as we all know there’s a disconnect with physical activities with the youth of late . I’m real happy my kids both enjoy pinball enough to get out from behind their computers to stand up and mingle and talk strategy of playing a pysical game (also go kayaking ,fishing and other forms of a time past ) . I also believe it’s important for these European start ups to get off to a good start as they learn they’re ways to new styles of pinball .Competition will always bring the best out of all involved imo .With all that’s going on ,I’m definitely going to start holding back on which ,and how I purchase pinball machines .I used to keep them moving in/out as the guy mentioned above ,but I’m going to start looking at games in a long term light which basically means 1) Theme will be a lot more important now 2) Unless it’s from Elwin ,I should really play the game first 3)Does the insert layout and initial rules page suggest a deep ruled pin which will carry long term attention and lastly 4) are all 3 of us on board with the purchase . Whatever happens I only know for sure that my “love of the game “ will carry me until the end of the line

    #466 1 year ago

    like Frankenstein, this thread will never die
    prices are up, sales are down
    time to turn the beast around
    used classics are more expensive than NIB
    NIB sit alone on the dock
    Craigslist flippers cry in their sleep
    "What will I do with all these LE's?"

    #467 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    One question I have is if there is a legit graph showing the % of pinball purchasers by age groups ? Or , do the manufactures /Distros keep that locked up with the Ark also ? I really hope they’re reaching the younger crowd as we all know there’s a disconnect with physical activities with the youth of late . I’m real happy my kids both enjoy pinball enough to get out from behind their computers to stand up and mingle and talk strategy of playing a pysical game . I also believe it’s important for these European start ups to get off to a good start as they learn they’re ways to new styles of pinball .Competition will always bring the best out of all involved imo .With all that’s going on ,I’m definitely going to start holding back on which ,and how I purchase pinball machines .I used to keep them moving in/out as the guy mentioned above ,but I’m going to start looking at games in a long term light which basically means 1) Theme will be a lot more important now 2) Unless it’s from Elwin ,I should really play the game first 3)Does the insert layout and initial rules page suggest a deep ruled pin which will carry long term attention and lastly 4) are all 3 of us on board with the purchase . Whatever happens I only know for sure that my “love of the game “ will carry me until the end of the line

    With over 60 pins rotating through the basement in the last 5 years, I have bought/sold/traded with exactly one person that was younger than me... a high schooler who saved up for his first pin and got a sweetheart deal from me. I'm 37. Average age of pinball owners/buyers I've seen is probably 55. I'd guess 45 for NIB pin buyers.

    #468 1 year ago
    Quoted from jonnyo:

    I think there are two generations right now vying for pins, which are driving demand.
    Boomers, who are late middle age or retiring. Their friends bought Harleys and they bought pins.
    Gen-x grew up in the last hurrah of the arcades, and the last heyday of pinball. Now Gen-x is buying houses, raising families and wondering what to do with the basement.
    Neither generation is going away anytime soon so I think the collector market will be around for another couple decades before pinball becomes the next pitch 'n bat. One caveat, though, is if some miraculous "game changer" occurs in pinball, making previous games less valuable.

    I agree with this.
    This is why Stern is diving into other markets and promoting pinball where nobody else is, Comic con conventions, supporting Rock Stars, etc. They are opening it up to the younger generation with Insider Connect.
    They know Millenials and GenX are the last generation of collectors so unless they make a complete new gen of collectors the business is likely to come into a recession again like it did late 90s.
    I will not be into spending 20K into pinball in my late 60s as I am sure I will have other priorities but that is just me.

    #469 1 year ago

    This stuff is expensive to make and the economy just makes it harder on everyone. Instead of prices bursting, I imagine it will just force less pins to get made once again, and some smaller companies just aren't going to be able to make it and close shop.

    More pins than ever are being made, covid issues have mostly been cleared up so production is higher than ever, more pins being made, and more companies popping up putting out product, with smaller guys pushing for larger runs. With the cult of new your just getting more and more folks quickly flipping pins, trading in and rushing for whats new while space is typically limited, so they have to get rid of pins for the new hotness. Inventories are just going up everywhere, so I don't see much of a burst, but part of the correction is that companies are going to have to hit the brakes a bit or they are gonna start crashing their own businesses.

    #470 1 year ago

    Unless a game is a smash hit, Godzilla for example, expect to see bigger losses on the secondary market. We've finally hit peak pinball pricing IMO. If you buy an LE for $13k or a premium for $10k expect to take a $1.5k - $3k loss at least early on.

    #471 1 year ago

    totally subjective, but it sure feels like there is a lot of stagnation at the top of the market right now, both in premium/LE's and super-restored A+ titles; lots of ads, fewer sales.

    reasonably priced used machines seem to move just fine though.

    so bubble or slight market correction?

    certainly less flippers and more players is what we are want and should be the eventual outcome

    #472 1 year ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    Man, this thread is 11 years old LOL! ‘Says it all.

    Proving this is the world’s slowest-popping bubble, EVER. I believe there is a natural law that says the bigger a bubble, the more likely it is to burst. So we can infer this must be a small bubble. Taking that info into account, one should question any advice found in this thread.

    If you felt we were in a bubble 11 years ago, you would likely not have bought any overpriced pins. Conversely, if you had bought everything you could then at market price and resold each pin later for a profit, you’d laugh every time you visited the bank to make another large deposit.

    #473 1 year ago
    Quoted from JakeFAttie:

    totally subjective, but it sure feels like there is a lot of stagnation at the top of the market right now, both in premium/LE's and super-restored A+ titles; lots of ads, fewer sales.
    reasonably priced used machines seem to move just fine though.
    so bubble or slight market correction?
    certainly less flippers and more players is what we are want and should be the eventual outcome

    LE's kind of stopped being special when you are making 1000 of them. The constantly increasing number of these special pins with high price tags... really isn't all that special.

    Theres just too many pins being made for the size of the market and it's going to get worse. You keep seeing the local dealers flooded with new pins with barely any plays on it a few months post release, and it's always to trade in for the next thing coming out.

    And of course you just see it constantly folks with NIB LE's sitting at their home or storage, like... you just never opened that thing? FOMO buying, hopes of flipping for big bucks?

    A correction is needed and it feels like it's already happening since we had a period of rapid inflation and rise in production.

    #474 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    LE's kind of stopped being special when you are making 1000 of them. The constantly increasing number of these special pins with high price tags... really isn't all that special.
    Theres just too many pins being made for the size of the market and it's going to get worse. You keep seeing the local dealers flooded with new pins with barely any plays on it a few months post release, and it's always to trade in for the next thing coming out.

    yes and all dealers now have everything in stock collecting dust.

    #475 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    LE's kind of stopped being special when you are making 1000 of them. The constantly increasing number of these special pins with high price tags... really isn't all that special.
    Theres just too many pins being made for the size of the market and it's going to get worse. You keep seeing the local dealers flooded with new pins with barely any plays on it a few months post release, and it's always to trade in for the next thing coming out.
    And of course you just see it constantly folks with NIB LE's sitting at their home or storage, like... you just never opened that thing? FOMO buying, hopes of flipping for big bucks?
    A correction is needed and it feels like it's already happening since we had a period of rapid inflation and rise in production.

    Yup. Don't forget how some collectors are now making up their own "special editions" in for sale ads. "Blue Flame Godzilla Premium Edition", "Ultimate AC/DC Fire Edition", etc. No, that's a modded game, that's it lol.

    #476 1 year ago

    Supply has caught up with demand, that is what has lead to the drop in the market prices a bit as people have stated. Pins were much harder to come by a year ago but by now most people have received all of their pins they had pre-preordered or had a deposit on by now.

    On top of that I think some people have other games that finally came in but they may have bought a different pin that was in stock while waiting, such as LZ, TMNT, AIQ, GNR ( the less popular pins) and now need to dump a pin to get the one they put a deposit down on so they dump their least favorite.

    With exception of GZ and Deadpool, basically every other pin is available NIB right now for immediate delivery.

    #477 1 year ago
    Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

    Proving this is the world’s slowest-popping bubble, EVER. I believe there is a natural law that says the bigger a bubble, the more likely it is to burst. So we can infer this must be a small bubble.

    Yeah it's really not that crazy. What do we have, some titles that have gone up 4x, 6x, or maybe even 8x? And that's over a period of 20 or 30 years. Definitely some decent price gains but its not like tulips or crypto or pets.com.

    This actually just looks like organic market growth with the Gen-X and Millenial demographics coming into more money and having a lot of nostalgia towards arcades and gaming.

    #478 1 year ago

    There has never been a bubble, just a fluctuating market. I've heard of people negotiating below MSRP with distros already, especially for JJP games. Stern may not lower their published price, but distros are not in this game to sit on an obscene amount of inventory.

    Production is going to slow. Pricing will come down. It's basic economics, regardless of crazy Levi's redundant chirping.

    #479 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

    yes and all dealers now have everything in stock collecting dust.

    Which is why it's crazy when you see folks complaining about Stern only doing two new cornerstones a year instead of 3. If anything them slowing things down is a good thing, catch up to what needs to get made and in demand, while also not continuing to flood the market with product.

    #480 1 year ago
    Quoted from Kkoss24:

    One question I have is if there is a legit graph showing the % of pinball purchasers by age groups ? Or , do the manufactures /Distros keep that locked up with the Ark also ? I really hope they’re reaching the younger crowd as we all know there’s a disconnect with physical activities with the youth of late . I’m real happy my kids both enjoy pinball enough to get out from behind their computers to stand up and mingle and talk strategy of playing a pysical game (also go kayaking ,fishing and other forms of a time past ) . I also believe it’s important for these European start ups to get off to a good start as they learn they’re ways to new styles of pinball .Competition will always bring the best out of all involved imo .With all that’s going on ,I’m definitely going to start holding back on which ,and how I purchase pinball machines .I used to keep them moving in/out as the guy mentioned above ,but I’m going to start looking at games in a long term light which basically means 1) Theme will be a lot more important now 2) Unless it’s from Elwin ,I should really play the game first 3)Does the insert layout and initial rules page suggest a deep ruled pin which will carry long term attention and lastly 4) are all 3 of us on board with the purchase . Whatever happens I only know for sure that my “love of the game “ will carry me until the end of the line

    Whatever market data pinball manufacturers have, the strategy clearly comes out as: must appeal to old white men who love 40 year old movies and/or rock bands and boobies.

    #481 1 year ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Whatever market data pinball manufacturers have, the strategy clearly comes out as: must appeal to old white men who love 40 year old movies and/or rock bands and boobies.

    Or the people choosing the titles are old white men who love 40 year old movies and/or rock bands and boobies.

    LTG : )

    #482 1 year ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    old white men who love 40 year old movies and/or rock bands and boobies.

    What?
    Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said my name.

    #483 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    boobies.
    LTG : )

    It’s like it’s always been a thing lol

    IMG_4478 (resized).jpegIMG_4478 (resized).jpegIMG_4479 (resized).jpegIMG_4479 (resized).jpegIMG_4480 (resized).jpegIMG_4480 (resized).jpegIMG_4481 (resized).jpegIMG_4481 (resized).jpeg
    12
    #484 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jmckune:

    It’s like it’s always been a thing lol

    Well duh. They didn't just invent them for pinball.

    LTG : )

    #485 1 year ago

    Don’t buy new pins and that will show them we arnt going to play their price peak games !!!

    #486 1 year ago

    These threads get a bad rap from time to time ,but I am learning a lot here as I’ve only been in since winter of ‘19 and I hit the ground running . People were shocked my first pin was a WOZRR . I had just hit a 9k ($10 bet) showdown on Draftkings Sunday Night Football and paid $7400 for it and it was mint .Put $800 into it , sold for $9900 and I was off to the races .I wasn’t winning any more bets so I started doing remodeling side jobs because as in Jays potato chips …..I wanted to quit my job after doing this a few times Now the rush is over and while I will enjoy what we have now , I still need a spot for rotation so I’m thinking of leaving one spot for used games , don’t put a dime in it unless to fix something , and get back to my favorite thing about this hobby …..Road Trips

    11
    #487 1 year ago

    The used market is WAY down.

    Normal summer run? Don't think so - my guess is more new inventory and a weak economy.

    #488 1 year ago

    Kkoss 24 I couldn't agree with you more road trips. They are my favorite thing I love the Chase of getting a new game. And road trip food.

    #489 1 year ago

    Pinball is having a bit of “yield competition” for consumer’s dollars. One can get 5% on their money now in a MMA or they could withdraw the money to buy a pinball machine. For the last decade the Yield for dollars has been 1%ish. This 5% stuff we haven’t seen in 20 plus years.

    The choice of where your money goes is up to you. You just get paid 5% now to not spend, so……

    Pricing has caught up and leveled. Supply is about there but not really as folks “wait for their games”. But Demand is still rapidly growing and with pinball being a “small pond” meaning it doesn’t take many new folks to grow rapidly.

    Best “real time” indicator of “is pinball growing?” is right here. Click Community to find how many new Pinsiders joined the last 24 hours. It’s been 1 person plus per hour for years. Scroll down on the link below to get the daily numbers, “for fun”

    https://pinside.com/pinball/community

    We are just back to the boring times of “you open a new in box and it instantly goes down $500 plus now”. This is the way it was before 2020. That’s actually an awesome holding of value. If you have one or 10 on location there you go! There will be some folks not buying anymore if they lose $500 plus. Most will adjust, shrug and move on and buy anyway.

    If you think pinball will keep dropping in price on a “downward trend” for what ever reason, Covid, recession, stern makes Ikea games, etc that is ok but you will be up against
    1. A ton of new folks coming into pinball
    2. A ton of money coming into “the system” from Govt spending, COLA’s due to “previous years” inflation which is slowing down and paying high 5% yields to “folks with money” giving them more money for the future, like “kindling” for the fire. Folks with money “tend” to buy pinaball machines and stocks RE nice cars travel and stuff.
    3. But this 5% yield is unsustainable. Wait until that 5% yield drops to 4%,3%,2%…… Where will “folks with money” then put their money? Probably cool stuff like pinball and other stuff listed above.

    No bubble IMO.

    #490 1 year ago

    Often wonder if bubble threads are just market prognostications with dash of pinball therapy.

    B1C95D0A-901F-4C2F-B75C-C25B1B522A28 (resized).jpegB1C95D0A-901F-4C2F-B75C-C25B1B522A28 (resized).jpeg

    #491 1 year ago

    I just want the pinball bubble to burst so a future econ PhD student can write a dissertation titled "Crazilevi Bubble Burst Events in Niche Markets".

    #492 1 year ago
    Quoted from Geddy2112:

    Kkoss 24 I couldn't agree with you more road trips. They are my favorite thing I love the Chase of getting a new game. And road trip food.

    Surprise road trip food is the absolute best ! Whatever looks best in the picture that’s where I’m heading

    #493 1 year ago

    Also, if someone is just getting into the hobby, it’s a great time to buy EM’s! The classics are about the same price if not less than they were even 10 years ago. It’s kinda crazy, as some of these EM’s are actually more fun to play than some of the early SS machines for a fraction of the cost! I’d say build your EM collection right now, most games will be less than $1000. Just avoid the high priced titles such as El Dorado, just get a target alpha or solar city instead of you like that layout

    #494 1 year ago
    Quoted from Classics_Master:

    Also, if someone is just getting into the hobby, it’s a great time to buy EM’s! The classics are about the same price if not less than they were even 10 years ago. It’s kinda crazy, as some of these EM’s are actually more fun to play than some of the early SS machines for a fraction of the cost! I’d say build your EM collection right now, most games will be less than $1000. Just avoid the high priced titles such as El Dorado, just get a target alpha or solar city instead of you like that layout

    Probably a regional thing. I'm seeing EMs in general doing fairly well still.

    Those B list EMs like Solar City have never fetched high value. I'd argue that they go for more now than they did 10 yrs ago.
    Looking at pinside in 2015, they were going for $600, and the latest median is $1200. Pretty on par with general used pin prices. Pretty on point, El Dorado started at $1100 and is now at $2200.

    #495 1 year ago

    I have a solar city and it's fun with that good layout, but el dorado has better rules, being single player.

    #496 1 year ago

    I tell ya what, I'm still buyin!...but yes the used market is down right now no doubt. She'll bounce back.

    #497 1 year ago

    Here I've been thinking we're living in a golden era of pinball...

    I think, market wise, we're in a "new normal" and not a bubble. Prices might come down 10 even 20% for a time but they'll bounce back if they do. A lot of new people continue to enter the HUO market. And more and more bars and arcades are carrying the new, high-end games like GZ, JP, AIQ, DP, JB, etc.

    Probably not a bubble. That would require people to quit the hobby and sell their machines. If/when that happens in big numbers, then you've got a market in decline.

    #498 1 year ago
    Quoted from Nicholastree:

    Here I've been thinking we're living in a golden era of pinball...
    I think, market wise, we're in a "new normal" and not a bubble. Prices might come down 10 even 20% for a time but they'll bounce back if they do. A lot of new people continue to enter the HUO market. And more and more bars and arcades are carrying the new, high-end games like GZ, JP, AIQ, DP, JB, etc.
    Probably not a bubble. That would require people to quit the hobby and sell their machines. If/when that happens in big numbers, then you've got a market in decline.

    Not sure what will raise prices again unless something creates scarcity once again. A big difference we have compared to a year to two ago is that there just is so much more out there. Dealers actually have abundant inventories, when before every dealer had next to nothing on hand unless it was a cold turkey like TMNT. But product was also selling out before even ever getting in stock, all presales selling out continually, now you got every dealer sitting on stacks of NIB pins with more shipping each week especially from Stern.

    Another issue is with the boom and scarcity in stock, dealers were making major allocation commitments with stern which is needed to get ahold of future shipments, they can't cherry pick what they want, they have to commit to carrying stock to keep the flow coming and to get the higher end models they need to purchase quantities of the lower end Pros. Lot of these deals and commitments set up during the dry times, but now that the pins are flowing like water, it's going to hurt.

    There is going to be a breaking point where dealers are gonna have to be hitting the brakes, ordering less, trying to slow things down, and in turn slowing down production of machines from all the pinball companies.

    Pinball is expensive and most of all, it takes up a ton of space. Space is in limited supply for pinball buyers, locations, and most of all dealers. You got dealers still with stocks of Bond pins from the launch period, restocks of pins each week being delivered, Foos are not that hard to come by even right now, and a new corner stone is launching real soon too, so another influx of stock. All the while there is a nonstop flow of trade ins coming in.

    Used prices are normalizing it feels, dealers and producers will probably start cutting back a bit or slowing down, but I doubt prices will crash outside of used.

    #499 1 year ago
    Quoted from Nicholastree:

    Here I've been thinking we're living in a golden era of pinball...
    I think, market wise, we're in a "new normal" and not a bubble. Prices might come down 10 even 20% for a time but they'll bounce back if they do. A lot of new people continue to enter the HUO market. And more and more bars and arcades are carrying the new, high-end games like GZ, JP, AIQ, DP, JB, etc.
    Probably not a bubble. That would require people to quit the hobby and sell their machines. If/when that happens in big numbers, then you've got a market in decline.

    O yeah... anecdotal again I know but of the 60 pins I've rotated, 2 have been someone's only pin. One from an estate sale and one from a bad divorce.

    15
    #500 1 year ago

    Call it a “bubble” or just gone way too far too fast.

    Supply has caught up with and exceeded demand.

    The FOMO purchase is on its last legs. ZERO reason to buy NIB now, let someone else take the hit.

    Distributors and collectors are sitting on NIB of every recent title. They show up in the marketplace every day. That created some “artificial demand”. Speculators.

    FOO is a great example. Now you can buy an LE below MSRP, always been that way for BOND, both excellent pins.

    JJP hasn’t helped the market. Way too many CEs at unsustainable pricing. Bond 60th? Great pin, gross pricing.

    Guaranteed $$$ losers.

    Who’s going to pay the price down the road? The DISTROS. Spoke to my guy and said sales are “really slow”.

    Keep pumping out new pins and they are gonna be sitting on a shitload of inventory most are financing. Not good.

    Spooky, they need FOMO to fill up the pre order line. I like their recent pins but they are guaranteed $$$ losers.

    I’m thinking newer folks to the hobby might be getting a bit tired of that outcome.

    Let’s put it another way, you think JJP, Spooky or Stern are thinking about another price hike next go round? That idea is laughable.

    I feel like I struck gold with my recent purchase, a PGA Golden Tee.

    When Apple’s “Vision One” headset comes out next January for $3,500? Shit, I’ll take two, what a bargain!

    As a long time pinaholic, “the juice is no longer worth the squeeze” for me.

    I’ll patiently wait for any future pin I might like to take a beating on the secondary market.

    FOMO still has legs but it’s on life support. It’s a tough habit to break! But it’s easier when the greedy pin manufacturers help you.

    There are 1,050 posts in this topic. You are on page 10 of 21.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.