(Topic ID: 19613)

Pinball price bubble -- MM as an example


By HeyYouSir

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 271 posts
  • 106 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by leonml
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“Predict the future of A list pinball prices”

  • They will continue to rise with no end in sight. ($30K for a MM someday!) 55 votes
    12%
  • They will continue to rise and then take a dip (Newer technology replacing old) 119 votes
    27%
  • They will stay about the same for a long time (Still out of reach for most) 171 votes
    39%
  • I don't want to think about it and enjoy the pins that I have. 44 votes
    10%
  • I don't care. 53 votes
    12%

(442 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

yuuuup.jpeg
trends2.gif
trends.gif
3.jpg
IMG_1234.PNG
marshallluckyposter.jpg

There are 270 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.
#100 7 years ago
Quoted from aeneas:

My opinion is totally different: why would I pay 5K for a Stern that has not proven itself yet, is unknown if it'll be a great, good or not even average game, that may drop significant in price once it's not NIB anymore..
Buy for the same money a proven A-title (in good/restored condition) which is for years on top of everyones wish list, you know what to expect (rules/depth/.. are known), and it will hold its value probably better (as it hasn't dropped over the last years in value) ?

For the same basic reason people still go to movie theaters to watch an "unproven" movie instead of re-watching the Godfather. There is something in human nature that wants to be part of the social experience that goes with things that are new, exciting and maybe, just maybe, epic.

#101 7 years ago

there's a mm on ebay right now for $12K BIN and nobody has bought it. That's a sure fire sign of the apocalypse, right?

#102 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

In the longer term, I think the LCD will make our current generation pins feel like Dmd does to system 11. I'd expect the demand for 20 year old machines to start dropping. I think this may impact the higher end machines but not the lower.

I look at how few pins are on location where I live and I think the LCD will not have a lot to do with the value of older pins. There are not many new pins for people to play on locations any more but a lot of local collectors have them in their homes. I dont think pinball is more popular, I think that more people who played pinball growing up are in different stages of thier lives where they can afford to buy these games.

I guess I would like to see the math on how many NIB games Stern or JJ sell that are for collectors (HUO).

#103 7 years ago

Jack is quite aware of this issue an has an option for operators to get pins on route without a big cash outlay up front. Not sure of the details, as mine will be HUO.

#104 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

+1
I've said I think its a game changer from day one....most people will want to own and play the newest and the best....that's why we buy iPhones, a PS3, etc...if you had a PS3 would you plug and play the original PS

I don't fire up the PS2 much anymore but I do fire up the PS2 games in my fat PS3.

#105 7 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

I'd agree with this. I don't think the fact that the display has changed means much to most pinheads. If it adds something to the gameplay then it will further the evolution of pinball. The addition of DMD's coincided with deeper rules and more features in pinball. For example, the fact that Funhouse is an alphanumeric pin doesn't detract from it for me, as it's got the features of a WPC and that is what counts. Do nice graphics on a DMD help a game, sure, but the gameplay is what really matters.

The LCD has the potential to be a game changer. It totally comes down to what they do with it.

The DMD allows for more effective communication with the player which in turn enables the design of deeper games. However, the depth of some games exceeded the limits of the DMD a long time ago. Games like LoTR and TSPP are still incomprehensible to 90% of the players.

With a LCD, the display could now do essentially what Bowen is doing in his tutorial videos. Imagine you complete an objective that locks the ball. That "unlocks" a 15 second strategy video that shows you that you could have also stacked a mode with the objective for bigger points, which in turn encourages you to put more money in and try to replay the mode using the new strategy. Or you could unlock flipper technique videos that show you how to do a drop a catch, nudge, etc.

The storylines could get a lot deeper and engage the player more and in interesting ways: moral choices that affect the storyline and scoring, for example.

On the other hand, they could use it to just show the score and some crap 3D animations and video clips, in which case we'll have the equivalent of the interactive movie games of the 3DO and Sega CD.

#106 7 years ago
Quoted from JDub1006:

I look at how few pins are on location where I live and I think the LCD will not have a lot to do with the value of older pins. There are not many new pins for people to play on locations any more but a lot of local collectors have them in their homes. I dont think pinball is more popular, I think that more people who played pinball growing up are in different stages of thier lives where they can afford to buy these games.
I guess I would like to see the math on how many NIB games Stern or JJ sell that are for collectors (HUO).

In many urban areas there is still decent location pinball. We have 450 games, 250 venues, 2 pinball museums, and 3 pinball leagues in the bay area.

#107 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

+1
I've said I think its a game changer from day one....most people will want to own and play the newest and the best....that's why we buy iPhones, a PS3, etc...if you had a PS3 would you plug and play the original PS

The LCD dies not seem to me to be a game changer. And the analogy here of ps3 vs ps1 is terrible. In those cases, the game play is determined by the computer graphics and sound. On the case of ps3 vs ps1, the game is way more realistic. The more powerful computer system enables things that couldn't otherwise be done. Pinball is still mechanical. The move to LCD is not going to be anywhere near the same impact.

Unfortunately, to really capitalize on a backbox LCD, the game play has to be stopped (ball held somewhere) so your attention can be taken off of the playfield and redirected to the backbox. This would be very unfortunate. I sure hope LCD doesn't encourage stop and go games and extended video modes. Id take a fast flowing stern with Dmd over a stop and go LCD based game any day.

#108 7 years ago

I'm tired of reading about MM price as an investment, I actually play my games. F those that don't...............it's ruined the pinball hobby. Move along, please.

Well there is a new sheriff in town, yessir...

Interesting that the poll doesn't even give the option to vote for prices going down (there is one saying they will go up more first, then down).

There's a new sheriff in town Rob.

Yessir... Here's a loaded MM, it's got lighted troll eyes, butane dragon flamethrower mod, damsel in distress and a price that is too high.

marshallluckyposter.jpg

#109 7 years ago

Now this is good use of the LCD IMG_1234.PNG

#110 7 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

The demise of all pinball manufacturing would be the dagger in the A list prices. Seems counter intuitive, but without new machines interest in the hobby would drop as things would become too stale.

Funny, as this is the exact reason I decided to dive in to the hobby last year. I was thinking that there are fewer and fewer pins being made these days and with Stern being the last major manufacturer around, pinball machine manufacturing could eventually just die out, pretty much like arcade games have. I also thought about how if some company were to just buy Stern outright, they may decide to cease pinball operations for no reason, or as a cost-cutter, or because their profit margin is too low(it's happened to many other companies before).

With all that in mind I figured I'd jump in to the hobby, get my three keepers and be done. That's still my intention, but at least with Stern pumping out more than I thought, and with the smaller guys starting to ramp up numbers, I fully believe that while the classics are the classics and they'll always command a premium price, pinball's not in the dire situation I thought it was when I started to get into this hobby.

That said, we are already starting to see prices drop ever so slightly just because the few of each A-list title that sold in the last six months had an air of exclusivity, it seems, as they were the only ones on the market. When they sold for a higher than normal price, everyone who has one of that title and figured they might want to sell it to cash in at the "new" high price started listing them. They listed them on eBay, CL, here, Mr. Pinball, you name it. We all saw the prices, we never knew if they actually sold and/or at what final price. With the market still A-title "heavy", prices will eventually creep down as supply outweighs demand. The last few pins I've seen on eBay that people have put a high BIN but actually want to sell it have over the last couple weeks, steadily lowered in price because the sellers have had no takers at their stupid prices.

Case in point: The last couple of TZ's sold under $5k. Nice players, too! That's sounds reasonable to me.

-Mike

#111 7 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

there's a mm on ebay right now for $12K BIN and nobody has bought it. That's a sure fire sign of the apocalypse, right?

Sold outside of auction, I'm guessing.

#112 7 years ago
Quoted from HeyYouSir:

That gives me an idea. Wonder how much round trip tickets to Australia would be? I figure that plus the cost to ship a machine back home to the US may be cheaper than buying a MM here.

It's funny you should say this, because the exact opposite used to be true. At Expo, I met a couple nice guys from Australia. They had come to the US specifically to buy some games and have them shipped back home.

#113 7 years ago
Quoted from txstargazer3:

So many of the A list pins are from the 80s and 90s. I believe that many of them hold SOME of their value because we had a great time playing them "back in the day". As younger pinheads join our ranks, they may not revere these pins to the extent that the rest of us do. Added to that, many believe that some of the pins now being released and soon to be released are very well done.
This could signal a shift in demand in the overall marketplace from the classic A listers toward NIB or recent releases. I think that there will not be a big drop in classic A listers, but rather a flattening out of demand at current high levels. I believe the growth in the market is already shifting to new titles. Examples are the popularity of ACDC, X-Men, WOZ, Predator, etc.
I must admit that I find myself more interested in the new stuff than I am in pursuing the pins that interested the most in the past. For example, I made the decision to order WOZ ECLE rather than search out an old favorite. It's a pattern I can see myself repeating in the future.
Anyone else feel this way, or am I alone on my little island?

I just bought MM for 11,000.00
I am also getting the WOZ ECLE
On the list for Predator.

I am going for both,old and new.
If I can get it locally the better,but hard to come bye here.
It seems like I am in the pinball wasteland here in Calgary,Alberta.

They never go down around me.
To few to choose from,for older titles.

#114 7 years ago
Quoted from pingod:

It seems like I am in the pinball wasteland here in Calgary,Alberta.

hahahah, come one province east my man if you want to see the pin wasteland!

#115 7 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

hahahah, come one province east my man if you want to see the pin wasteland!

I know,yet you had two MM's and I missed them both

#116 7 years ago

Only one was from in province, and I was saving it from being neglected. The other was from your neighbour to the west.

It has really dried up here. I think most of the OPS have sold off the majority of their routed pins, and whats left sucks. The odd one has some decent pins, but they watch the market like everyone else and want big dollars.

It's pretty much NIB pins, or importing from down south.

#117 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The LCD dies not seem to me to be a game changer.

Errrr.....and then you contradict yourself.....

And YES, it is a game changer......and YES, it is so similar to the advancement in technology of the PS3 and iPhone......I realize its hard to understand it but when it comes out you MIGHT get it....

The LCD is here to stay...the rest of the dinosaurs can mill around in the last century...

#118 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Errrr.....and then you contradict yourself.....
And YES, it is a game changer......and YES, it is so similar to the advancement in technology of the PS3 and iPhone......I realize its hard to understand it but when it comes out you MIGHT get it....
The LCD is here to stay...the rest of the dinosaurs can mill around in the last century...

I'm not saying the LCD isn't here to stay. I'm not saying the LCD isn't going to be an improvement. I am saying the LCD is not a game changer. The actual game play on the playfield is where 99% of the pinball activity occurs. The LCD has zero impact on this. Nothing I have said has contradicted that. The analogy with the ps3 was silly. The advancement from EM to simpler 80s pins to Dmd era pins is more inline with ps1 to ps2 to ps3 comparisons. Not because of the score display but because of the amazing playfield changes. Those earlier games didn't even have ramps.

If the LCD was in the playfield and the ball interacted with elements on the screen I'd cry game changer. Pinball 2000 was a game changer. LCD in the backbox away from the play action? Not a game changer.

#119 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I am saying the LCD is not a game changer.

It has to be for the rest of the world to adopt pinball again....better get used to it...and it will interact, etc.....its just the beginning and YES it is a GAME CHANGER..sorry you are wrong

#120 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

The actual game play on the playfield is where 99% of the pinball activity occurs. The LCD has zero impact on this. Nothing I have said has contradicted that. The analogy with the ps3 was silly.

If that is true....and its NOT...the Pinball is dead amongst the 10k of HUO collectors that may or may not buy depending on the economy....

#121 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It has to be for the rest of the world to adopt pinball again....better get used to it...and it will interact, etc.....its just the beginning and YES it is a GAME CHANGER..sorry you are wrong

Where do you get your speculation from? You constantly speak as if you have played games from the future. The LCD is not a game changer. Games were made decades ago that had tv screens integrated into the game and they are very forgettable. Pinball2000 games aren't even exceptionally desirable. I'm not saying it's not cool, but it's not going to make games of the past look obsolete.

For arguments sake, let's say that every game from the future which you have played is a major smash hit that destroys all pinball before it. It would still take a 5-10 years of these games being cranked out in large numbers for people to dismiss the old titles. It's not just for nostalgia either. There are plenty of new people coming in and ALL pinball is new to them.

#122 7 years ago

So I just sold my TZ. I'm buying a few other new pins, so instead of folding it up and storing it (which I could have) I decided not to hoard and offer it up to the pinball community. I didn't really need the money but I got my asking price, it's helping to pay for a new one, and I decided (for me) gets a bit crazy to sit on games if I don't plan on playing them in my rotation.

As for the bubble discussion, it factored in. If A title pins keep rising maybe I was stupid. I personally am happy with what I got, so is the buyer, and personally feel greater risk of prices coming down than going up. LCD games will change the hobby. Older A games will have their place but I think it will settle down on demand. Just IMO.

#123 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

The LCD is not a game changer

How do you know its NOT a GAME CHANGER Beatlejuice.......

#124 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

It would still take a 5-10 years of these games being cranked out in large numbers for people to dismiss the old titles. It's not just for nostalgia either. There are plenty of new people coming in and ALL pinball is new to them.

Really......Ok, whatever you think....Game Changer..I've played slot machines from the present!!!....keep the head buried in the sand.....

#125 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I've played slot machines from the present!!!

Yea, where you are meant to be staring at a screen the entire time.

Quoted from iceman44:

How do you know its NOT a GAME CHANGER

Like I said, similar things have been done in the past. How often do you even get a chance to look at a screen on the backbox on any good pinball machine?? It's ok if you don't mind watching the same video clips over and over while the ball is held up. It's the action on the playfield that always matters most. Again, I'm not anti-lcd, but it's a superficial improvement.

#126 7 years ago

Before I give an opinion on whether an LCD is a "game changer" I'd 1) want to know the definition of game changer; 2) play a pin that had an LCD in it.

That said, I'm inclined to say that the LCD is not going to be a game changer. Like Betelgeuse said, pinball is played on the play field. The DMD/LCD is peripheral to the game being played on the play field. Yes, it is an important role, but how much do you see the DMD/LCD while playing the game? Not much.

#127 7 years ago

Unless they cut a big hole in the playfield and insert an LCD there, I don't see it being a "game changer."

#128 7 years ago

Nope but cool lights and sounds and Lcds with other goodies will be.

#129 7 years ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Unless they cut a big hole in the playfield and insert an LCD there, I don't see it being a "game changer."

I don't think it creates this huge groundswell where people start lining up to play pinball, but I think it will definitely attract more attention to the general public than a machine today. A pin in a bar/restaurant probably goes unnoticed by 90% of people when a game is on location today. That might get a few bucks dropped in the machine. Or tempt a kid to put their parent's quarters in that instead of a Fast and Furious game.

I hope the new technologies lead to a resurgence similar to something that Golden Tee experienced.

#130 7 years ago

Yeah, with the whole LCD thing.... you guys need to have two different conversations. Game changer wrt home collectors and game changer wrt location.

Displays are mostly to attract bystanders to the machine and allow people watching to understand what's scoring, what's happening, and intrigue them enough to put their money in next.

Putting the display in the middle of the playfield (ie. P2k) does a couple of things. Makes it impossible for bystanders to really see the display or follow what's happening. It also gives you video in your face (as the player) that you can't get away from. Many pinball players do not want to stare at a video screen on the playfield; that's why they're playing pinball and not video games.

I do not want to stare at video in the middle of the playfield personally, but the P3 stuff could definitely find a niche in the collector market which has a smallish group who enjoy P2k.

As for advancement with the color LCD, it's the clearest signal you can send to the average person that what they're looking at is a NEW pinball machine. Putting the same old orange display in for 20 years was a clear signal to the average person that 'there's nothing new to see here.' Which was a major factor in the pinball market shifting out of street location and into basements of collectors.

As for the level to which a backbox display factors into the real pinball playing enthusiast's experience? Minor.

#131 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

It's the action on the playfield that always matters most. Again, I'm not anti-lcd, but it's a superficial improvement.

Just my 2 cents...

DMD-era games were a game changer not so much for the DMD (it helped), but it had alot more to do with addition of complex rulesheets, themeing the entire game, "telling a story", etc.

#132 7 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

As for advancement with the color LCD, it's the clearest signal you can send to the average person that what they're looking at is a NEW pinball machine. Putting the same old orange display in for 20 years was a clear signal to the average person that 'there's nothing new to see here.' Which was a major factor in the pinball market shifting out of street location and into basements of collectors.

+1 . Very succinct .

#133 7 years ago

All the discussion about old and new is interesting.Think about this:put Tron next to TZ,see any technological differences?Actually the older game has more going on then the newer game.So even though there is almost 2 decades between models,the older game is the more advanced pin.Has pinball design hit a wall?Maybe.JJP is going to push with the LCD but the main playfield components are the same as the "old" TZ.For me it's not old vs. new,but what are the best pinball machines made,taking the entire history of it all into consideration.Scott

#134 7 years ago
Quoted from jackofdiamonds:

Think about this:put Tron next to TZ,see any technological differences?Actually the older game has more going on then the newer game.So even though there is almost 2 decades between models,the older game is the more advanced pin.Has pinball design hit a wall?Maybe.JJP is going to push with the LCD but the main playfield components are the same as the "old" TZ.For me it's not old vs. new,but what are the best pinball machines made,taking the entire history of it all into consideration.Scott

Thats why there will still be strong market. I see that as quite the opposite. The clean lines and newer playfields look much better to me. But I what what you are saying. So there will be guys like me that have no interest in old boxes and collectors like you that will chersish them and hopefully both will flourish.

#135 7 years ago

It won't turn the pin into a video game obviously but is should be a Game Changer from the standpoint that it will bring more new people into the hobby, young and old, like myself....

Video integration will have the Wow factor and while it might not mean anything for the guy that just wants to play a pinball machine, and those numbers will dwindle over time, it will be new, refreshing and might actually cause a rebirth of pins on location....especially with JJP's leasing program...

If its not a "Game Changer", its a huge step forward and that's a good thing...

#136 7 years ago

One thing that I think would be cool as a player is an LCD on the backboard that will change the scenes and backgrounds during different mode of game play. That would greatly enhanced the play but, not overly distract the player. Technologically, would be a game changer to some extent and relativity simple to implement (could be argued I'm sure). Lets say for example LOTR had this, instead of a decal with just Mordor in the background, it could change the scene to the Shire, Shelob's cave, Moria, ect. It would give much to the feeling in modes and a greater impact to the player than a backbox LCD.

#137 7 years ago

I mentioned the glass WMS uses on some of their slot machines now. The glass is transparent but can also display some video. It is pretty cool stuff. Just think if Stern, JJP, or JPop used glass like that on pinball machines. You could have video where you could see it.

#138 7 years ago

Did anybody see the screenshot of the WOZ that markmon posted earlier? All that information available on one screen instantly versus trapping the ball for a "Status Report"? How is that not a major improvement to overall game play? To instantly know what you have to hit and what it will accomplish is huge in pinball. How many of you knew what to do with MM when you first played? If you had someone explain the overall goal of the game before you played your first game, maybe then you would've had more fun instead of just bouncing the ball off everything you could see. Let's face it, the quicker you understand the rules, layout, and depth of a game, the more fun it is. The LCD screen, used to it fullest, can convey this information faster and with more accuracy than any other pin before it. That, my friends, is game changing.

Besides, if for nothing else than "attract mode" alone, with respect to WOZ, what better way to attract newbies to pinball than with a clip from the most popular movie of all time? Can't you see the game, sitting in the corner of a bar or amusement area, nobody playing it and then a clip comes on the LCD screen of the witch saying "I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog, too!" or some other famous line from the movie? Who in the world who has seen the movie won't at least turn their head and look, let a lone walk over and investigate? If it gets them to drop in some quarters, mission accomplished.

#139 7 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I mentioned the glass WMS uses on some of their slot machines now. The glass is transparent but can also display some video. It is pretty cool stuff.

Yep, that is very cool!.....

#140 7 years ago

To me, pinballs are like pieces of art, that you can interact with! Each machine title is different and unique! In a world of billions of people, there is only a very small supply of, say, AF's or TZ's. Also, with countries like Russia, china , and India, where they becoming economic powers, they want to be and have what America has. It's like when Japan started buying up all american collectables, like guitars, blue jeans,etc. Supply can't possibly keep up with demand!$$$$$$$$ JMO!

#141 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

It won't turn the pin into a video game obviously but is should be a Game Changer from the standpoint that it will bring more new people into the hobby, young and old, like myself....
Video integration will have the Wow factor and while it might not mean anything for the guy that just wants to play a pinball machine, and those numbers will dwindle over time, it will be new, refreshing and might actually cause a rebirth of pins on location....especially with JJP's leasing program...
If its not a "Game Changer", its a huge step forward and that's a good thing...

Finally you give some facts to back up your point of view. I agree with your assessment here. It makes more sense.

I consider game changer something that changes the game making the newer pins the ones to buy. For collectors, the impact of kids looking on as you're playing is less important than for routed games. So in the context of this thread, I don't see how LCD will cause better games prices to drop unless the LCD is integrated directly into the game play. I admit the WoZ HUD looks great - really great. But it doesn't make me want xmen less.

#142 7 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

Did anybody see the screenshot of the WOZ that markmon posted earlier? All that information available on one screen instantly versus trapping the ball for a "Status Report"? How is that not a major improvement to overall game play? To instantly know what you have to hit and what it will accomplish is huge in pinball. How many of you knew what to do with MM when you first played? If you had someone explain the overall goal of the game before you played your first game, maybe then you would've had more fun instead of just bouncing the ball off everything you could see. Let's face it, the quicker you understand the rules, layout, and depth of a game, the more fun it is. The LCD screen, used to it fullest, can convey this information faster and with more accuracy than any other pin before it. That, my friends, is game changing.

Exactly.

Learning the rules to pinball has traditionally been a matter of "bumping around in the dark". It's an extremely old school and frustrating approach. Some games included tutorials and novice modes, but a combination of the limited tech and poor design limited their usefulness. At best they served to inform, but fun? No.

Besides, if for nothing else than "attract mode" alone, with respect to WOZ, what better way to attract newbies to pinball than with a clip from the most popular movie of all time? Can't you see the game, sitting in the corner of a bar or amusement area, nobody playing it and then a clip comes on the LCD screen of the witch saying "I'll get you my pretty, and your little dog, too!" or some other famous line from the movie? Who in the world who has seen the movie won't at least turn their head and look, let a lone walk over and investigate? If it gets them to drop in some quarters, mission accomplished.

Also spot on. Aesthetically, the DMD is basically a car with roll down windows and no electronic key option. You can argue all day long how those things don't affect the "driving experience", but you cannot tell me that new car shoppers don't insist on purchasing them.

#143 7 years ago

Unfortunately, I think that there may be nothing that can revive pinball on location. From what I have seen, the learning curve for pinball is just too steep. After such a hiatus, Americans as a whole just don't know the first thing about how to play. If they are intrigued, at $.75 a pop they get easily frustrated and move on. When it was a bigger part of our culture, most people had some experience as a starting point to improve their skills. I have had plenty of people come over to check out my machines out of curiosity, only to not even plunge a ball during their visit.

#144 7 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Finally you give some facts to back up your point of view. I agree with your assessment here. It makes more sense.

Its helps when I'm not drinking beer while I post...much more coherent

Quoted from markmon:But it doesn't make me want xmen less.

Me either....would just like a Resident Evil theme from Stern but I guess Avengers is next...

#145 7 years ago

I'm just not convinced avengers will be next yet. I really think stern wants to mix up themes and won't do two comic themes back to back. I'm pulling for resident evil as well.

#146 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Unfortunately, I think that there may be nothing that can revive pinball on location. From what I have seen, the learning curve for pinball is just too steep. After such a hiatus, Americans as a whole just don't know the first thing about how to play. If they are intrigued, at $.75 a pop they get easily frustrated and move on. When it was a bigger part of our culture, most people had some experience as a starting point to improve their skills. I have had plenty of people come over to check out my machines out of curiosity, only to not even plunge a ball during their visit.

It will never be like it was, but can it evolve and keep going? I think so. The main thing is we have to forget the arcades of yesteryear in any vision of keeping pinball alive.

I used to be hardcore Street Fighter player in the 90s. By 1996, the scene was dying and arcades were closing up left and right. Fighting games were becoming increasingly harder to learn, effectively shutting out new players.

In the late 90s the fan base launched web sites, started putting videos online, started organizing
meet-ups at peoples' houses to play on the consoles and started doing tournaments using consoles. The internet infrastructure finally caught up and online play became a reality. And while many in the scene decry internet play, it's brought tons into the scene. I honestly did not think the scene would survive till now, but it has, and the tournaments are bigger and better than ever.

Pinball can do the same. Not the same way, but it can find a way. As evidence of that, some dedicated players are "working the web" to make it happen. You have sites like pinballmap.com showing players where to find games. You have sites like this one bringing the community together.

Guys like Bowen and orgs like PAPA are creating video tutorials, and Pinball 101 showing how to do the moves - In the last couple years alone I have seen these efforts elevate play at tournaments. Novices tend to have a *much* better grasp of rules, stacking and flipper technique, and more and more people of my generation (gen X) are learning the tech side, to keep games in shape. One the reasons I run as many tournaments as I do is because of the help and amount of "template" information, software and knowledge on the internet that explains how to do it.

#147 7 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

It will never be like it was, but can it evolve and keep going? I think so. The main thing is we have to forget the arcades of yesteryear in any vision of keeping pinball alive.

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that pinball was doomed, just that new bling wasn't going to bring in new players on location. I think the future of pinball is with collectors, tournaments and large facilities. I also think the popularity of video pinball is a great way to break the ice and convey the fundamentals to a new generation of enthusiasts.

I was also a big Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat player back in the day. I miss the arcade era.

#148 7 years ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that pinball was doomed, just that new bling wasn't going to bring in new players on location. I think the future of pinball is with collectors, tournaments and large facilities. I also think the popularity of video pinball is a great way to break the ice and convey the fundamentals to a new generation of enthusiasts.
I was also a big Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat player back in the day. I miss the arcade era.

Let me get this right, you're in Pittsburgh?

#149 7 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I'm just not convinced avengers will be next yet. I really think stern wants to mix up themes and won't do two comic themes back to back. I'm pulling for resident evil as well.

That's what one would think would be logical........I'm in for Star Trek and RE

And let's hope that JJ slips something else in before the Hobbit!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs
8,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Austin, TX
There are 270 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside