(Topic ID: 21447)

Pinball Power consumption?

By Jumbosinbad360

10 years ago


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  • 52 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by EJS
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    There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 10 years ago

    Just wondered in Watts how much a typical pin takes with normal incandescent bulbs?
    and how much if all lighting was changed to led's....
    Thanks.

    #2 10 years ago

    Check this out:

    #3 10 years ago

    Cool topic. Makes my decision easier when i get my first pin

    #4 10 years ago

    But don't LEDs like cointakers supers and ultras use as much of not more than incandescents? I remember someone saying their ultras have the same or more draw than incandescents.

    #5 10 years ago

    I don't know if it makes it easier, by their change of clothing it looks like it took them four days to switch it out. That's four days of play time lost

    #6 10 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    But don't LEDs like cointakers supers and ultras use as much of not more than incandescents? I remember someone saying their ultras have the same or more draw than incandescents.

    There are a few LEDs that get hot (usually they have 5 or so chips on them), but you don't really want a bunch of super bright LEDs on most games.

    You might need supers for the pop bumpers because the replacement bodies are not as translucent as the ones you may have taken out. You might need a super in the dark corner of a game like WH2O (and a blue super at that).

    For inserts, the cheap .35 cent ones from pinball life are great.

    For the backbox not to look totally washed out, the Warm Whites from Cointaker are really nice. They are pretty bright, so you might skip a few sockets.

    #7 10 years ago

    The Ultras use the same amount of power as an incandescent but the supers use about 25%.

    #8 10 years ago

    I just recently tested my BSD. It has got standard GI. Using a watt/hour meter, in attraction mode 245w/h and while playing 350w/h.
    Full set of LEDs for BSD $170 to $220, never will recover cost from power savings alone.

    #9 10 years ago

    True, but that isn't the only reason to get them. It just makes the expense easier to swallow.

    #10 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    For inserts, the cheap .35 cent ones from pinball life are great.

    I was looking at these. The Getaway I have already had LED in the GI, and I was considering going this route for the inserts and controlled lamps. Any reason not to, or should I just stick with the kit from CT?

    #11 10 years ago
    Quoted from SealClubber:

    True, but that isn't the only reason to get them

    Your right, they look fantastic too!! I would love to put a full set of LEDs in my machine. The original post gave me the impression that it was a cost thing. I would not change out for power savings alone, even though it is the GREEN thing to do.

    #12 10 years ago

    It was. But the video gives a good answer for a pin with LEDs and without. Another reason to do this is you can put more pins on one electrical circuit before you run the risk of tripping the breaker. This can be a big deal for those with large collections or old houses.

    #13 10 years ago

    That video was cool, I have seen the topic before, but the 8th grader answered the question!

    #14 10 years ago

    also they run cooler (just going off what i heard) which can save you money in ac costs

    #15 10 years ago
    Quoted from DrainO:

    I was looking at these. The Getaway I have already had LED in the GI, and I was considering going this route for the inserts and controlled lamps. Any reason not to, or should I just stick with the kit from CT?

    The impression I'm getting is that it'll be worthwhile to replace dead bulbs with LEDs, but probably not cost-effective to do total overhauls "just because."

    #16 10 years ago

    The #44 LED replacements I've seen are rated @0.25w, the same as incandescent.

    So which to buy? I think a lot depends on its application. I've seen some modern pins which they look great. But I personally don't like the look in an EM pin because they all have a comparatively narrow light spectrum compared to incandescent. LED's will last longer than incandescent, which may be a consideration for a hard to reach socket.
    But incandescents are cheap at $0.15 each.

    EDIT:
    Another consideration is how much time your pin(s) are actually on. Me? I switch it on, play a few games then off it goes. If a person powered several pins for a few minutes every day their consumption would pale the power used by a modern flat screen or RP TV which is often on for several hours a day.

    So if your usage is like mine your not going to effect your electric bill in any meaningful way for LED vs. incandescent or save the Earth.

    If you like them then just get them for that reason.

    BTW, if a pin uses around 350w then they should be limited to 3 pins per 15a circuit. Nothing else on the same line.

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from DrainO:

    I was looking at these. The Getaway I have already had LED in the GI, and I was considering going this route for the inserts and controlled lamps. Any reason not to, or should I just stick with the kit from CT?

    It can save you money doing your own.

    #18 10 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    BTW, if a pin uses around 350w then they should be limited to 3 pins per 15a circuit. Nothing else on the same line.

    Thats right Volts x Amps = Watts.
    For me it is 240v x 10A= 2400 Watts or 6.8, 350w machine/circuit. And this varies in different parts of the world.

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    There are a few LEDs that get hot (usually they have 5 or so chips on them), but you don't really want a bunch of super bright LEDs on most games.
    You might need supers for the pop bumpers because the replacement bodies are not as translucent as the ones you may have taken out. You might need a super in the dark corner of a game like WH2O (and a blue super at that).
    For inserts, the cheap .35 cent ones from pinball life are great.
    For the backbox not to look totally washed out, the Warm Whites from Cointaker are really nice. They are pretty bright, so you might skip a few sockets.

    Aren't most of CTs LEDs supers? The premiums which i assume are pretty much designed for inserts/controlled lighting to reduce/eliminate ghosting and strobing are supers aren't they? They are real bright. In fact iam pretty sure the CT kit that came in my Avatar LE is all supers! I know the CT IM kit uses supers in GI.

    As For those cheap leds you mention using in inserts, don't those cheap .35 cent LEDs from pinball life ghost and strobe in inserts though?

    #20 10 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    Aren't most of CTs LEDs supers? The premiums which i assume are pretty much designed for inserts/controlled lighting to reduce/eliminate ghosting and strobing are supers aren't they? They are real bright. In fact iam pretty sure the CT kit that came in my Avatar LE is all supers! I know the CT IM kit uses supers in GI.
    As For those cheap leds you mention using in inserts, don't those cheap .35 cent LEDs from pinball life ghost and strobe in inserts though?

    CT Supers ghost just the same as cheaper PBL ones.. probably even more so.
    If you want to reduce ghosting, you need ghost buster type led's like NoFlix. CT has their own version now too.
    There are also ROMs available that supposedly eliminate ghosting in certain W/B games.

    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    As For those cheap leds you mention using in inserts, don't those cheap .35 cent LEDs from pinball life ghost and strobe in inserts though?

    I don't see them ghosting, but you can't use them as GI in some games that have the strobe light effect (like WH2O).

    I was using the .35 cent LEDs in all the inserts and incandescents for the GI, but lately I've been using the Premium 2 LED, NON-GHOSTING LEDs from CT and they don't strobe in GI. The heads break off on these all the time, so have some crazy glue on hand:

    http://shop.cointaker.com/category.sc;jsessionid=33FF4D582627F4C91A0BC3D4F214309F.qscstrfrnt01?categoryId=193

    The Premium 2 LED, NON-GHOSTING are too bright for inserts, better to just use the cheap ones for that.

    #22 10 years ago

    Yeah I was going to use the single led premiums for my inserts. They are bright but don't appear too bright at least to me. In my avatar LE it's just there standard single LEDs and I've noticed no strobing in my sterns GI. Leds are definately trial and error and personal preference but it's always nice to know what others are doing and using for comparison.

    #23 10 years ago
    Quoted from RawleyD:

    CT Supers ghost just the same as cheaper PBL ones.. probably even more so.
    If you want to reduce ghosting, you need ghost buster type led's like NoFlix. CT has their own version now too.
    There are also ROMs available that supposedly eliminate ghosting in certain W/B games.

    Think you misread what I said I was asking from observation if the premiums which don't ghost are essentially supers in the sense of there brightness?

    #24 10 years ago

    So about 350w max then.....

    #25 10 years ago

    The non-ghosting CTs are the same as the supers. Should be called non-ghosting supers IMO. And they work as advertised.
    If you have a B/W with a lot of ghosting inserts I would have a new patched ROM installed.

    #26 10 years ago
    Quoted from SteveFury:

    BTW, if a pin uses around 350w then they should be limited to 3 pins per 15a circuit. Nothing else on the same line.

    3 pins would come in under 9 amps,So you could safely add a fourth pin and pushing it a fifth.

    #27 10 years ago
    Quoted from pdman:

    3 pins would come in under 9 amps,So you could safely add a fourth pin and pushing it a fifth.

    Yes, you are right. Watts/volts=amps. So 1 pin @ 350w on a 120v line has a power of just under 3a.

    #28 10 years ago
    Quoted from DrainO:

    I was looking at these. The Getaway I have already had LED in the GI, and I was considering going this route for the inserts and controlled lamps. Any reason not to, or should I just stick with the kit from CT?

    These ghosted like crazy for me, luckily I just bought a few to try. I wouldn't recommend.

    #29 10 years ago

    While on the subject of LEDs and prior to me putting a mammoth order for LEDs in with cointaker, what specifically ghosts on pins? Is it only the inserts? I've never noticed ghosting anywhere else on my friends pins except inserts so do other areas ghost or not?

    #30 10 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    but lately I've been using the Premium 2 LED, NON-GHOSTING LEDs from CT and they don't strobe in GI. The heads break off on these all the time, so have some crazy glue on hand:

    He ain't kidding about the heads breaking off.

    #31 10 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    He ain't kidding about the heads breaking off.

    I had a bunch break in shipping, and a bunch more snap off during install.

    #32 10 years ago
    Quoted from Jumbosinbad360:

    So about 350w max then.....

    NO NOT MAX - Average.Each machine type maybe a bit different. I measured mine using a watt/hour meter and it showed 350 watts/hour. But this will not be the peak power required, but an average over time. I just looked on the back of my BSD at the power requirements plate, on my machine it is 230v and 5amps, this will be its peak requirements. This works out to 1150 watts @ peak.
    So how many machines can you operate on one circuit? Answer, one less than the amount running when the power tripped, LOL

    #33 10 years ago

    Trivia- Did you know that there is 8 recognised standard voltages for domestic use thought the world. They are 100v, 115v, 120v, 127v, 220v, 230v and 240v. with 230v @ 50Hz being the most common. Now that makes life easier, not!!

    And why 127v ?

    1 year later
    #34 8 years ago
    Quoted from Jumbosinbad360:

    So about 350w max then.....

    I'm a little late to this discussion, but wanted to throw in my power consumption numbers. I have two machines, an AFM and a Getaway. One uses about 150W and one about 120W (I forgot which was which). There wasn't a meaningful difference between attract mode and actual play. I was pleasantly surprised. Not much more than a 100W bulb.

    What's making my electric bill painful this is my electric clothes dryer (over 5000W!!!!) and my kids' space heaters (about 1200W). The pins are in the noise...

    8 years later
    #35 3 days ago

    This is a really old thread but I had the same question since the price of electricity is quite high lately.
    Has anyone tried out the difference in power consumption between a game with incandescent bulbs and one with modern leds?
    Since the answers above were with leds from ten years ago...

    #36 3 days ago

    I took some data with a couple of games within the last couple of years. Let me see if I can dig it up for you.

    #37 3 days ago
    Quoted from Apex:

    I took some data with a couple of games within the last couple of years. Let me see if I can dig it up for you.

    This is an interesting topic for me although I have no data to share. I converted most of my games to LEDs and leave most games turned off unless I intend to play them. I'd LOVE to see that idle power is low enough for me to justify turning all of them on.

    #38 3 days ago

    My TRON LE (factory LED inserts and GI swapped to LED) draws just under 2A on 120VAC and up to 2.5A during gameplay. I don’t have pre-LED conversion data, but I know the constant high draw at idle is mostly the back box fluorescent tube, plasma DMD, and other losses through the transformer and voltage rectifiers.

    #39 3 days ago
    Quoted from Apex:

    I took some data with a couple of games within the last couple of years. Let me see if I can dig it up for you.

    That would be really interesting!

    #40 3 days ago
    Quoted from squirtbrnr:

    My TRON LE (factory LED inserts and GI swapped to LED) draws just under 2A on 120VAC and up to 2.5A during gameplay.

    That would be 240 to 300 Watts. Seems a bit lower than the 250 to 350 Watts they talked about before.

    Quoted from squirtbrnr:

    the constant high draw at idle is mostly the back box fluorescent tube, plasma DMD, and other losses through the transformer and voltage rectifiers.

    Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that. That's also things to look at to bring down the power consumption.

    #41 3 days ago
    Quoted from Reznnate:

    I'd LOVE to see that idle power is low enough for me to justify turning all of them on.

    Exactly!

    #42 3 days ago

    I just did a quick calculation. I'm planning to have 9 machines in my line-up. 9 x 250W makes 2250W.
    Over here we pay 70 cents per KwH now. So it would cost about $1.50 per hour to have them idling.
    It would take some time to make back any money you would put in to the machines to make them
    run on less electricity.

    #43 3 days ago

    Just buy yourself a power meter so you can measure the watts your pinballs are using during gameplay and idle.

    When running idle I think it’s around 100W when fully in led.

    A bulb takes like 6W were a led will be like 0.6W? So if on average 50 bulbs are burning you save 50x6 minus 50x0.6 makes 270W savings. Very rough calculation but gives you an idea.

    #44 3 days ago
    Quoted from Marten:

    Over here we pay 70 cents per KwH now.

    Yikes. And I thought we had it bad in California.

    A Kill a Watt will quickly and easily tell you how much power each of your games uses. Plug into wall, plug game into meter, turn on game, push Watt button. Simple as that. You can also do timed surveys, to see how much power the game uses over time. About $35 at Harbor Freight or Amazon.

    I haven't checked lately, but I believe some of the early Spike games were rated at 4 amps at 120 volts while Sam games were rated at 8 amps.

    image_22149 (resized).jpg
    #45 3 days ago
    Quoted from Rensh:

    Just buy yourself a power meter so you can measure the watts your pinballs are using during gameplay and idle.
    When running idle I think it’s around 100W when fully in led.
    A bulb takes like 6W were a led will be like 0.6W? So if on average 50 bulbs are burning you save 50x6 minus 50x0.6 makes 270W savings. Very rough calculation but gives you an idea.

    Thanks for the info Rens.
    I don't have a pinball machine that has leds yet so I couldn't measure that.

    #46 3 days ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I believe some of the early Spike games were rated at 4 amps at 120 volts while Sam games were rated at 8 amps.
    [quoted image]

    So they are getting a little bit more efficient then. But I believe the ratings are the maximum they could draw but don't in reality.

    #47 3 days ago
    Quoted from Rensh:

    A bulb takes like 6W were a led will be like 0.6W?

    #44 or #555 bulb is 6.3V/0.25A or 1.58W
    #47 bulb is 6.3V/0.15A or 0.95W

    Leds are probably 0.1 - 0.2W, so changing 50 #44 bulbs to leds might save about 70 watts.

    #48 2 days ago
    Quoted from Marten:

    So they are getting a little bit more efficient then. But I believe the ratings are the maximum they could draw but don't in reality.

    Exactly. 120 volt games have been rated at 8 amps for decades. Plenty of those older games will pull up to 5 or 6 amps with factory incandescents, but I've never seen over 6.

    #49 2 days ago

    If you're talking money savings can't rely on math on the secondary side of the transformer....Adding LEDs to the average dmd game will save you about 1 amp on the primary side. I've measure before and after a few games. The biggest was 1.7 amps saved on a street fighter switching to LED. You can do the math from there and see how long it'll take you to pay off the LEDs it will take quite a long time even if you're an arcade. But the big savings here is getting maybe one more game on a breaker or saving breakers from popping, less heat in the game, nor more burnt plugs, less maintenance, yadda yadda yadda.

    #50 1 day ago

    I assumed TS4 CE with full PC, topper, and extra LEDs might be one of my most expensive games (for power usage too! ). It's using ~140-160W idle.

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