(Topic ID: 266636)

Pinball Poker? Poker Time? Undecided poker themed homebrew...

By zacaj

1 year ago


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    There are 263 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
    #151 11 months ago

    After more playtesting, I decided that it was too hard to catch the ball. With a game where not hitting the wrong things can be as important as hitting the right things, players need to be able to get some control. Even I was having trouble with this, and would often have the ball roll off the end of the flipper while trying to catch it, which I think is partly due to how steep my flippers are (at rest), and thus how shallow they are when raised.

    When I originally designed the game I tried to copy the layout of my Alien Star, but I messed up somehow, and part of that was that I put in my flippers too steep. A while ago I picked up a spare gottlieb inlane guide, so I stuck this in my printer and took a scan:20201003153334_001.jpg

    measuring that picture, I got an angle of 119 degrees (probably 120 in reality since that's a nice number...), while my layout was 126 degrees (fun fact, williams inlane guides are 125, so I somehow mistakenly made williams inlanes...). So I made a new inlane guide with a 120 degree angle:https://cad.onshape.com/documents/cf8933508c54fdc1d2e1cbec/w/8de46f8a59b2e2a9657a1015/e/ce2603cfd473c1490421177c

    Installing it on the playfield made it look way more dramatic than it was, with the giant gap between it and the slingshot:
    pasted_image (resized).png

    But the actual difference in the flippers was pretty reasonable: pasted_image (resized).png

    So I went ahead and adjusted the left side as well, and moved the slingshot down to compensatepasted_image (resized).png

    You can see from the old lines and holes how much stuff moved... I'm ending up with a lot of holes in my playfield! When I try to make the plastic for this, I'm going to have to be careful to note which holes are 'current' so I don't use the wrong ones when reassembling.

    #152 11 months ago

    Heh, this is so evil
    ezgif-7-d515d192c4d2.gif
    Any poker experts know better terms for any of this?

    1 week later
    #153 11 months ago

    Installed a tilt bob, which had to go on the right side due to how I'd routed the wiring, etc. Even in this position I'm still going to need to trim the rod some to keep it from catching on stuff. Plus I need to earplug it! pasted_image (resized).png

    With that installed, I realized I still had no way to kill power to the flippers, so I installed some relays too. Now the tilt works properly in game, and the flippers also aren't energized when there isn't an active game. pasted_image (resized).png

    While opening the game to check on something, I noticed I had four pinballs piled in the front left corner of my cabinet. Occasionally, balls hit by the right outlane saver will airball over the lower left flipper/guide and fall down in there, and rather than grasping around for them I just grab another ball

    So I set up an airball catcher, made from scrap lexan and attached to the existing ball guide

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

    In order to get the height right, I also had to put the glass back in, which was a problem since I didn't have any siderails. I dug a pair of stern side rails (from replacing with lollipop rails) out of my spare parts, and they seem to fit the williams cabinet fine. Eventually I'd like to get proper williams rails on there, but I need to get the secondary holes for the extra flipper buttons, so that's been on the backburner. Since the stern rails are narrower, they fit above the buttons fine.

    My lockdown bar is also still covered in rust, so I grabbed one from my whirlwind for now, and for the first time actually had the game assembled with glass+lockdown bar. It's surprising how much of a difference this makes. The game feels much more like a 'real' game. A lot of the noise gets quieted down, which also makes the gameplay feel smoother. A big improvement, although I still need to get a coin door skin somewhere...
    pasted_image (resized).png

    With the mechanisms quieted by the glass however, it becomes much more obvious that I don't have any sound effects! I think this is going to be a big focus soon; I need to start finding (or recording) sound effects and callouts for everything. I'm not really sure how I want it to sound either. Most card themed pinball machines are EMs, and the solid state ones fall into that weird early 80s state where the only sound effects that could be generated were laser blasts and explosions (Eight Ball Deluxe always stood out to me for this). By the time sound designers were free to use any sound effects they wanted, poker themes weren't really popular. I think the only two games that'd fit that category are High Roller Casino and World Poker Tour. For better or worse, the sounds on those have never really stood out to me, to the point where I can't actually remember what they sound like to use as a reference. For a while I was tempted to stick a chime box in this game and call it done, but I'd like to try to get some actual sound effects in.

    For now, I think I'm going to try to make all the sound effects be related to actual poker. Chips clinking, cards being shuffled, etc. Not a ton to work with but maybe it'll be enough. Not sure how that'll feel as a pinball game either though....

    #154 11 months ago

    Very cool to see it in a cab with glass on! Liking the sound effect ideas as well. Going to have some background/ music tracks at all?

    #155 11 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    Very cool to see it in a cab with glass on! Liking the sound effect ideas as well. Going to have some background/ music tracks at all?

    That'd be nice, but again, I have no idea what sort of music would fit. With sound effects I can at least find random sounds and stick them in, but for music I feel like you really want something custom for the game, and I can't really write music... So that's on the very bottom of the priority list. Maybe I'll just steal Flash's background sound?

    #156 11 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Eventually I'd like to get proper williams rails on there, but I need to get the secondary holes for the extra flipper buttons, so that's been on the backburner. Since the stern rails are narrower, they fit above the buttons fine.

    For what it's worth, the cabinet is the right style that you could use the newer (WPC) Williams rails, which are also narrow and wouldn't need extra holes. They also have a more precise bevel on the inner edge than on WMS's older rails, which (to me at least) makes them more comfortable.

    #157 11 months ago
    Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

    For what it's worth, the cabinet is the right style that you could use the newer (WPC) Williams rails, which are also narrow and wouldn't need extra holes. They also have a more precise bevel on the inner edge than on WMS's older rails, which (to me at least) makes them more comfortable.

    Yeah, I'll have to assess my options if it gets to that. I still have the original side rails, they're just rusty. I'm going to be bringing the lockdown bar to a friend who used to polish+clean metal professionally to see if he can save it, but if not I'm going to try to paint it, and in that case I'll probably paint the original rails too, and then drill second holes into them. I want to have the rails matching the lockdown bar however it all ends up. But if I can't use the original rails, I'll have to see how the pricing on the two hole rails compares to the WPC ones

    #158 11 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    That'd be nice, but again, I have no idea what sort of music would fit. With sound effects I can at least find random sounds and stick them in, but for music I feel like you really want something custom for the game, and I can't really write music... So that's on the very bottom of the priority list. Maybe I'll just steal Flash's background sound?

    I hear ya, guess it depends on what kind of a ‘vibe’ you wanna go with.. I think it could go a lot of ways

    I’m curious about the rails— do stern lollipop rails fit on a wpc cab? Anyone know?

    #159 11 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I hear ya, guess it depends on what kind of a ‘vibe’ you wanna go with.. I think it could go a lot of ways
    I’m curious about the rails— do stern lollipop rails fit on a wpc cab? Anyone know?

    I'd assume they would, since the normal rails were the right length. But not with two buttons...

    #160 11 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I'd assume they would, since the normal rails were the right length. But not with two buttons...

    Ohhhhhh the 2 buttons right that’s a good point

    #161 11 months ago

    Coded another multiball. Previously I had four ways to get a multiball (getting a straight, flush, or full house, or completing a certain number of hands), but they all started the same multiball (which I've decided eventually will be the 'straight' multiball). So I need to add three more multiballs. I started with the 'number of hands' multiball, since that's probably going to be the one most commonly reached. I wanted to make it a bit more 'flail' friendly, since if you're managing to get a specific hand (and thus get that multiball), you're probably a more controlled player. For this one, I've made it so hitting any drop target builds your jackpot value, and then you can collect it by shooting the left orbit. The left orbit is a repeatable shot, since it feeds the right flipper, so for an extra challenge, I leave the jackpot lit after you collect it, until you hit any other targets, so if you're lucky you can potentially get 2-3 jackpots in a row. In practice that's really hard to do though, since there are standups on both sides of the orbit shot, and the feed to the right flipper is really fast. I also realized I didn't have any special stuff using the spinner yet, and the spinner is also a repeatable shot, so I made the spinner also light for a small percentage of the jackpot value. Even a good rip of the spinner won't be worth as much as the left orbit is, since it's an easier shot, but now you also have the fun potential of looping both shots at once, or choosing to go for the lower value, easier shot instead. With that, I also added a spin counter, so you could see what sort of value you're getting. pasted_image (resized).png

    Still two more multiballs to code. I'm thinking one will be upper flipper focused, using the target and shot only hittable from each upper flipper, but that will have to wait until I get the magnet sorted out to feed the upper right flipper.

    #162 11 months ago

    Installed a secondary power switchpasted_image (resized).png

    Located a bit farther back than normal, this one only controls high voltage, so you can quickly reach under and flip it off if anything goes wrong and risks damaging components, etc.

    Also ordered a door, so once that arrives I can finally mount the drawer that holds the boards and clean up/finalize some of the wiring in this area

    #163 11 months ago

    Game is getting increasingly hard to play due to the lack of a screen, so I decided it was time to bite the bullet and try installing the plastic sheet, which means I need to strip the whole playfield. Took it out of the cab for the first time in a whilepasted_image (resized).png

    In some places, I'm glad that past-me thought ahead and installed connectorspasted_image (resized).png
    In other places, like the wires going to the trough mechs, I wasn't that smart, so I ended up cutting the wires, and I'll install a connector later. A few mechs I left hanging, since I didn't think to put connectors on them, and now they're wired in such a way that I can't easily add them.

    Tear down went pretty quick and painless. There's not that much on top of the playfield, and all the drops have connectors so they're quick to remove.pasted_image (resized).png
    The biggest pain was all the standups. They didn't get connectors either since they're so scattered, and some of them barely fit through the playfield. In a few cases I actually assembled them through the playfield to begin with, so I needed to disassemble the target again to get it out.

    The paper has held up pretty well to being played on over and over.
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    When I first installed it I worried that the ball would rip it up when I started flipping but there's no tears at all, even in high traffic places.

    I moved all the playfield components to a spare sheet of cardboard to keep track of them:pasted_image (resized).png
    I wasn't very consistent about screws, posts, etc when assembling, and in some cases I even had to do stuff like grinding down plastic posts to make them shorter, so you really can't mix and match anything, and keeping it all straight like this is really important.

    Taking off the paper reveals about what I'd expected: a ton of trapped sawdust everywhere. It's been messing with the ball and getting it stuck in places it seemingly shouldn't
    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    It also reveals something I hadn't anticipated; the wood around every screw is slightly ripped up and standing above the playfieldpasted_image (resized).png
    I'm not sure if this is just normal, or if it's caused by me screwing everything in without drilling pilot holes. Luckily these sanded down easily without affecting the finish of the wood at allpasted_image (resized).png

    With the playfield all torn down, next I'll need to start cutting the plastic

    #164 11 months ago

    Using my flatbed scanner, I scanned the whole playfield in, since this is probably my only chance to access it completely flat pasted_image (resized).png

    I'm hoping that I can stitch these together and use them to update my CAD drawing to match the hand-changes I made when assembling, though I've heard mixed results about how accurate this can be...
    pasted_image (resized).png

    Then I put down my sheet of plastic, which I think is 1/32 lexan, and started marking holes for posts.pasted_image (resized).png

    pasted_image (resized).png

    The main worry with this plastic is whether it'll bubble and expand, separating from the wood, which I've seen happen when trying to make playfield protectors. This is a bit thicker though, and lexan, not PET-G; I'm hoping one of those two factors will fix that issue. To test it, the best thing I could come up with is just to heat it up for a long period of time, so I set it up with a bunch of incandescent lamps pointing right at it, for lack of any better options
    pasted_image (resized).png

    I'll leave this on all day, and see if the plastic rises up anywhere. If not, I'll proceed with cutting the rest of the holes+slots, and reassemble the game for further testing. Not sure if I'll also cut the hole for the screen at this point, or play it some with the protector first before going 'all in' and cutting a 10" hole in the playfield.

    #165 11 months ago

    So the slam tilt guys also put out the call for names for your game. I was running through options, but maybe a bit better understanding of the rules would help. Are you going for a certain style of poker, say texas hold em? Or simply going for best hands? Anyways, following your progress is very interesting bud!

    #166 11 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    So the slam tilt guys also put out the call for names for your game. I was running through options, but maybe a bit better understanding of the rules would help. Are you going for a certain style of poker, say texas hold em? Or simply going for best hands? Anyways, following your progress is very interesting bud!

    I've considered eventually allowing you to choose your poker style, but currently I'm just doing 7 card stud. Not sure why I chose that over hold-em, but they'd probably play very similar. Basically the rules are currently "play poker, win hands. get certain hands (straight, etc) or win enough hands, get a multiball". Very generic

    #167 10 months ago

    Have you thought of theming it? Maybe after what I consider one of the greatest poker movies ever? Rounders?

    Rounders Pinball
    Grind
    Short Stacks & Long Odds (or some combination of these words)
    The Nuts

    #168 10 months ago

    No noticeable change in the plastic after sitting all day with the lights on it, so time to dig in. I started by just making all the holes for posts, guides, etc.pasted_image (resized).png
    I've gotten pretty good at making clean holes, at least for smaller sizes, but for some reason they never seem to center well. Some I went to a bigger size, others I manually elongated by running the drill against one edge. pasted_image (resized).png
    Luckily, with a new blade, making the slots and other straight lines isn't too big an issue. I score each side 3-5 times, then use a hammer to punch it out, and I get pretty clean lines (as long as I get the corners right)
    pasted_image (resized).png
    pasted_image (resized).png

    Bigger holes cause issues. Once you get to about half an inch (or even 3/8 sometimes) the bits start to chew up the plastic. Depending on how bad it is I can sometimes clean it up with a blade but it's never perfect. I wish I had a better way to do these, but no method I tried (drill, forstner bit, spade bit, etc) was perfect. It'll be fine for a whitewood, but I think I'll definitely need to get a better one of these machine cut at some point if it all works out.

    pasted_image (resized).png

    I'm finally at a point where I have most stuff cut out, enough to reassemble and playtest the game to see how everything works. I've skipped some of the guides, the drop target banks (since they're removed right now anyway), etc.

    #169 10 months ago

    Do you have an automatic center punch to make a dimple in the plastic before drilling?

    #170 10 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Do you have an automatic center punch to make a dimple in the plastic before drilling?

    Automatic? No. I have a hammer and a large wood screw whose point I gently tap to make an indent. Then I drill a small hole, then I drill a bigger hole. I think one of those two drilling steps is drifting slightly or something

    #171 10 months ago

    My recommendation is to get what they call a step bit, this is an example: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/2005049

    It's useful for enlarging a small hole in a sheet of plastic. I own a step bit for, believe it or not, making larger round holes in scale models. It makes it a LOT easier to keep the hole centered as you make it larger, and it's unlikely to crack the sheet at the hole (I was making holes in the hull of a $200 model kit, I wanted to make sure I didn't crack that hull in the process). They make them from largest hole is 1/2" to largest hole is over 1". You don't even have to use the full size of the step bit, just to the desired size step on it.

    #172 10 months ago

    I’m still nervous for you on lexan binding.. I was going to go the same route after asking about to with the pinball amigos and had drilled a bunch of holes (same result as you with centering issues, not sure why ..) when they ran into binding issues and has to free float it. I decided to do the same — honestly it’s not much different visually and stays in place fine. But if you still go for it I hope it doesn’t cause you problems.. it’s one of those things that’s all in .. fixing it after the fact is a pain lol. I did find that larger holes were good with a router or for circles very slowly drilled with a Forstner at the correct size (1 pass).

    #173 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I’m still nervous for you on lexan binding.. I was going to go the same route after asking about it with the pinball amigos and had drilled a bunch of holes (same result as you with centering issues, not sure why ..) when they ran into binding issues and had to free float it on their latest build. I decided to do the same — honestly it’s not much different visually and stays in place fine. But if you still go for it I hope it doesn’t cause you problems.. it’s one of those things that’s all in .. fixing it after the fact is a pain lol. I did find that larger holes were good with a router or for circles very slowly drilled with a Forstner at the correct size (1 pass).

    #174 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I’m still nervous for you on lexan binding.. I was going to go the same route after asking about to with the pinball amigos and had drilled a bunch of holes (same result as you with centering issues, not sure why ..) when they ran into binding issues and has to free float it. I decided to do the same — honestly it’s not much different visually and stays in place fine. But if you still go for it I hope it doesn’t cause you problems.. it’s one of those things that’s all in .. fixing it after the fact is a pain lol. I did find that larger holes were good with a router or for circles very slowly drilled with a Forstner at the correct size (1 pass).

    I wish I could figure out what causes the binding issues. I've seen them before when I've tried to make protectors sometimes, and it was really obvious and quick to happen. Meanwhile I've talked to other people who say they've done this with no issues.

    My forstner bits always seem to have problems once they start to cut through in one place, they'll get caught on the flat area inside the edges since they don't have any more to scrape, and start ripping and flexing the plastic

    #175 10 months ago

    Do you have the lexan clamped down on a piece of scrap wood so the lexan can't walk around?

    #176 10 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    Do you have the lexan clamped down on a piece of scrap wood so the lexan can't walk around?

    I was going to ask this as well. I know what you’re talking about with the bits ripping as I had that happen a few times both with spade and forstener. Most of the time with it clamped well over scrap wood though and barely any pressure I’d get clean cuts.

    #177 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    I was going to ask this as well. I know what you’re talking about with the bits ripping as I had that happen a few times both with spade and forstener. Most of the time with it clamped well over scrap wood though and barely any pressure I’d get clean cuts.

    I've just been holding it by hand to the scrap wood, or using another price of scrap pre drilled on top. Didn't think that a clamp would make that much difference

    #178 10 months ago

    Reassembled and dropped it in the cab again for more testing. pasted_image (resized).png

    Everything seemed to work fine. No mechs were sticking, no raising of the plastic anywhere. I left it sitting for a while with the transformer+electronics on in case that would trap any heat underneath, but nothing happened. I'm still quite suspicious, but I can't really think of any more testing I can do at this point, and the playfield does look so nice and shiny....

    So I took the playfield back out, and disassembled the whole thing again. I'm getting very fast at this, but it's still a pain. One thing I'd try differently next time is the side rails. Currently they're under the plastic, but I think it'd be fine to have the plastic 1mm away from them. This'd save at least a quarter of all the screws I need to remove when taking the plastic off, and prevent the playfield from having time to sag while the rails are removed. Within a few hours of removing them there's a noticeable 1/4" dip in the middle of the playfield, which is more than I'd have expected, especially with all the drop target banks already removed... I assume my playfield wood just isn't as sturdy as what manufacturers use, but nothing I can do about that

    With the plastic removed and everything stripped off, I have some updates to do that I've been putting off:
    - the right controlled gate for the top lanes needs to be moved about 1/2" to the left to prevent ball hangups
    - the right-most upper lane needs a new rollover drilled in line with the others, since previously it only had a 'bottom' row switch
    - need to add lane guides to the upper lanes so the ball doesn't fall the wrong way
    - the target under the upper left flipper needs some tweaking. The hole isn't big enough to fit it through right now, so I need to extend it, and I want to reposition the guide wire below it to give a better feed
    - I've removed the upper left target (it was sort of under the ramp above the upper left flipper) since it can't be hit due to the pop bumper being replaced with a rubber (it wasn't really hittable before either), so now I can make a new guide going from the upper eject hole to the upper left flipper that doesn't have a gap in it for the target, which will hopefully improve that feed.
    - widen a few holes and slots slightly since some mechs would occasionally bind a bit on the edges

    Once that's out of the way, I'll move on to the fun part: cutting a 10" hole in the middle of the playfield for the LCD screen. No chances to mess up horribly here, nope...
    And then I can cut another 2.5" hole for the upper magnet and finally get that installed again!

    #179 10 months ago

    After a lot of careful measuring, it's time.pasted_image (resized).png

    The fit I'm going for is very tight. I'm about 2mm from one of the drop target mounting points, and I'm going to need to relocate one of the slingshot switches slightly, move a fuse block, and make a custom mount for the magna-save, but, it should work.

    Printed this magnet bracket, and cut a small stick of 3/4" iron for the core (I think this is the right metal...)pasted_image (resized).png
    pasted_image (resized).png

    20 agonizing minutes later, I have a holepasted_image (resized).png

    It fits! Barely. You can see the penciled outline of the drop bank on the bottom right, and the currently floating fuse block on the bottom left. I had some room to the top (left side of the playfield) I could have moved it to if necessary, but I wanted to keep it centered between the slings/flippers if possible pasted_image (resized).png

    I then mount the control board very professionallypasted_image (resized).png, and hook it up. Success!pasted_image (resized).png
    Lets get a game running... pasted_image (resized).png

    The viewing angles aren't the best but I think it should be okay. Will have to wait until I get it in the game for that though. The supports are a bit too thick and stick out of the playfield, so I'll need to space those or something. Not sure how I messed that up, thought I specifically made them slightly short :/

    #180 10 months ago

    Looks great!! Cool to see a game running in it we ended up with similar placement, although I went smaller and just barely stuck it between the sling mechs, also a super tight fit lol:

    786D5029-FF33-4313-956D-9E8AFE9E3ED1 (resized).png

    I like the squared look of yours — nice job keeping it straight!

    #181 10 months ago
    Quoted from Mbecker:

    Looks great!! Cool to see a game running in it we ended up with similar placement, although I went smaller and just barely stuck it between the sling mechs, also a super tight fit lol:
    [quoted image]
    I like the squared look of yours — nice job keeping it straight!

    I think mine is a 9"? I got the biggest I thought I could possibly fit anywhere

    #182 10 months ago

    pasted_image (resized).png

    Installed the upper magnet. Needed to cut a 3" hole to fit it, but luckily that just barely left holes for the surrounding stuff that was mounted there. Right below the nearby target you can see one hole where one end of the ball guide goes, which I'm half certain is going to rip apart at some point since there's so little wood left there. Tried to design the mount to hold the magnet slightly below the surface so it won't scratch the plastic, but not sure how that'll work when the magnet is active... maybe I should cut a circle of plastic to 'float' in between them or something? I feel like overall I don't want it to be too much lower, or it may stretch the plastic or something

    #183 10 months ago
    Quoted from LynnInDenver:

    My recommendation is to get what they call a step bit, this is an example: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/tools/power-tool-accessories/drill-bits/2005049

    This will work. Expensive, but I ended up using it all the time on other projects. It'll do the charm.

    #184 10 months ago
    Quoted from Fifty:

    This will work. Expensive, but I ended up using it all the time on other projects. It'll do the charm.

    For some reason step bits are expensive anywhere that isn't Harbor Freight.

    #185 10 months ago
    Quoted from tjw998:

    For some reason step bits are expensive anywhere that isn't Harbor Freight.

    I'm guessing it's because they take up a lot of room on the pegboard or shelf. Where as HF probably tosses them into a pick bin.

    #186 10 months ago

    pasted_image (resized).png
    Got the playfield reassembled and have been playing a bunch of test games. No buckling on the main playfield at all. I've got a slight bubble above the upper left flipper, I think I just tightened stuff down wrong though, doesn't seem to be changing. Have to be very careful no screws are rubbing against the edges of their holes, and to attach stuff in a 'wave', to make sure the plastic lies down flat. There's a slight drop in the plastic over the screen from the weight of the ball but not enough to affect its travel or anything.

    Plays much faster with the plastic compared to the paper (who would have guessed?). I'm not getting occasional airballs off the center bank, which isn't great, and some balls are flying right over the eject hole. I'll have to make some air ball guards, and might also turn down the flipper strength some, since it's a bit too much in some places. If you hit the left target on the center bank from the right flipper it rockets down the left outlane too fast to see.

    While reassembling I also noticed that some of the post screws are starting to strip. Some of these should definitely be machine screws, but that can wait.. for now I'm just upgrading to longer screws, since the ones I had were only going 1/4" into the wood.

    pasted_image (resized).png
    The upper magnet continues to cause me issues. Despite doing multiple tests showing that it could grab a ball from ~2.5" away with no wood in the way, it still can't pull a ball reliably off the post for some reason... It might work better if I had the post above the magnet instead of below, so it'd have more time as the ball drops, but it's probably still be sketchy. Again I wonder if having a large metal core covering this whole area would work better, or if having the magnet under just 1/32" of plastic is equivilant....

    If I position the magnet at the far right, it can grab the ball 75% of the time, but it drops it too far to the right and it doesn't feed the flipper well. If I position it more to the left it feeds cleanly, but can't grab the ball. there's about 1/8" sweet spot where it mostly works, but anything can throw it off, definitely not reliable enough.

    Additionally, I'm also having issues where sometimes the ball comes around the orbit so fast that it actually bends the post and gets wedged in between the post and the wood on the right, sometimes also lifting off the playfield somewhat. If I can't get the post more rigid, I'll have to abandon it since it's getting the ball suck...

    #187 10 months ago

    When the right hand four bank is down, does the ball just roll back down via the diverter? Trying to think if anything could be back there to bit when the drops are down.

    Also, no help on the name bud. Been trying to think of one and drawing dead. Wait maybe that can be it. Drawing dead....

    #188 10 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    When the right hand four bank is down, does the ball just roll back down via the diverter? Trying to think if anything could be back there to bit when the drops are down.

    The right hand bank is five targets, not four. if the diverter is closed the ball would just feed back the right inlane, but generally when not in multiball the diverter is open, allowing you to shoot behind the drops (or under the upper right flipper while you hold it up) to get back to the shooter lane.

    Originally I wanted to have a rubber behind the lower 2-3 drops, so that you could shoot under the flipper, or knock down the upper drops to widen that shot and make it easier, while the lower ones would bounce as normal, but there isn't enough room to fit much behind there without interfering with the shooter lane. Same goes for the left hand bank. Would like to put two posts and a rubber to back the targets but no room. This game would play way different if it was a widebody and I had an extra inch or two to play with....

    #189 10 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    The right hand bank is five targets, not four. if the diverter is closed the ball would just feed back the right inlane, but generally when not in multiball the diverter is open, allowing you to shoot behind the drops (or under the upper right flipper while you hold it up) to get back to the shooter lane.
    Originally I wanted to have a rubber behind the lower 2-3 drops, so that you could shoot under the flipper, or knock down the upper drops to widen that shot and make it easier, while the lower ones would bounce as normal, but there isn't enough room to fit much behind there without interfering with the shooter lane. Same goes for the left hand bank. Would like to put two posts and a rubber to back the targets but no room. This game would play way different if it was a widebody and I had an extra inch or two to play with....

    Right on. That makes sense.

    For name/concept maybe something like Dealer's Choice would make sense. You mentioned some of the rules being around stud poker, but dealers choice would give you some flexibility to mix it up with varying types of poker and then you could have other styles for modes/multiballs/etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dealer%27s_choice

    #190 10 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    Right on. That makes sense.
    For name/concept maybe something like Dealer's Choice would make sense. You mentioned some of the rules being around stud poker, but dealers choice would give you some flexibility to mix it up with varying types of poker and then you could have other styles for modes/multiballs/etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dealer%27s_choice

    That would be a fitting name, but there's already a game with that name: https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=649&picno=623

    #191 10 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    That would be a fitting name, but there's already a game with that name: https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=649&picno=623

    Doh, I looked up quite a few and started to realize a great many card games have been made. I must have let that one slip through.

    #192 10 months ago
    Quoted from DudeRegular:

    Doh, I looked up quite a few and started to realize a great many card games have been made. I must have let that one slip through.

    I didn't know it was one either and got excited for a minute, but nope. Every single name I come up with has been used on some random EM

    #193 10 months ago

    Ya man, there are so many out there.

    Ok how about something centered around "Bluff" or "Bluffing"? You could use that with your rules for risk/reward decisions maybe. Like call and cash in or bluff and try to increase the pot. Not exactly sure how it would work, but its a start. I don't see anything on ipdb with bluff in the name.

    2 weeks later
    #194 10 months ago

    After a few multi-hour sessions with the glass on, the plastic has finally started buckling. Worse, after I left it to cool off for a day, it's still not lying completely flat again. I assume if I stripped and repopulated the whole playfield I could fix it, temporarily, but not a permanent solution...

    I've been told that this method worked successfully on some homebrew pins, but using 1/16" perspex (acrylic). When I went to my local plastics shop to buy some, they recommended I use lexan instead for this application, as it shouldn't react to heat any more than acrylic and would hold up to the pinball better, but months later when I finally unboxed the sheet and measured it, it seems to be 1/32" per my calipers. So maybe a thicker sheet would work, or maybe the material is wrong. Or maybe I'm missing something else... I don't really want to hand cut another one of these after all the effort the first one took either. Maybe I'll shell out to get one laser cut, if I can get a good cad file together...

    I've also ordered a CNC router (https://www.v1engineering.com/lowrider-cnc/) that hopefully I can eventually use to cut new playfields and maybe plastic sheets (or even longer term goals, I get my own laser cutting head to attach to it), so maybe I'll wait on addressing this issue for a while. Moving back to a clearcoated playfield is always an option, it'll just add a ton more complications and steps to deal with...

    #195 10 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    I've also ordered a CNC router (https://www.v1engineering.com/lowrider-cnc/) that hopefully I can eventually use to cut new playfields and maybe plastic sheets (or even longer term goals, I get my own laser cutting head to attach to it), so maybe I'll wait on addressing this issue for a while. Moving back to a clearcoated playfield is always an option, it'll just add a ton more complications and steps to deal with...

    If you buy the laser cutting head for that cnc, please make sure you've got plenty of protection, since the cnc doesn't come with any protection from the laser being reflected/redirected like a dedicated laser cutter. This means the proper goggles/blocking shields, making sure you're the only one with access when it's running, fume extraction, etc.

    I've seen 3D printers with optional laser tool heads... I pretty much refuse to buy a 3D printer with that option, even if the laser tool isn't included and has to be ordered as a separate option, because I don't want to encourage the thinking for the same reasons as the cnc I mentioned, and that's the fact that the printers don't include the safety features of a dedicated laser cutter. Safety doesn't take a day off in my workroom. (For the record: my husband has veto power over shop procedures; if he thinks it's highly unsafe for me to do a thing, then I don't do that thing.)

    1 month later
    #196 8 months ago

    Two months of no real progress on the game, but: I've got a CNC router! pasted_image (resized).png

    It's... currently sitting on top of the bed in my spare bedroom, because I horribly underestimated how big it would be. But that's fine, not many guests during COVID. I haven't done any really big serious work with it yet, but it seems to work fine for my small tests I've run so far, so I don't think anything should change much.
    ezgif-3-01ea8cbf962b.gif
    pasted_image (resized).png

    I did some test cuts using a straight edged router bit (not sure the correct term for this), which was recommended for cutting plastics (since it doesn't have a helix to pull up the material). With a spare bit of lexan, it didn't do too well, sorta ripping up the edges and melting them a bit, similar to the issues I had cutting my lexan by hand with a drill. I got a sheet of 1/16" acrylic and tried that, and it cut much better. Not perfect, but definitely presentable. The only issue is that acrylic has a tendency to crack and shatter randomly. The router bit hasn't caused any of that yet, but when doing a whole playfield it could potentially cause an issue. I also tried another scrap of plastic I had on hand (which I think is PET-G, but I didn't label it), and it cut super nice. I'm trying to source some PET-G sheets locally to test out but I haven't found anything so far, so I'm gonna go ahead and try the thicker acrylic first. Acrylic also is (supposedly) what 70s+80s games with plastic playfields used, and what other homebrews have, so I'm still hopeful it'll work.

    #197 8 months ago

    But before I can cut some new stuff, I need some drawings to cut! I took my scan of the original playfield, and converted it back into a cad drawing (what a pain!). Then I got that printed out on paper at 1 scale again, tore down the playfield, and laid the paper down on the playfield to verify everything, since I wasn't sure if the scans would be "square".

    Sadly you can't see through paper (it would have been amazing to get this printed on something clear but as always I'm being cheap), so I had to use a small screw to search out all the holes in the playfield again for comparisonpasted_image (resized).png

    Some parts were spot onpasted_image (resized).png
    Some were off, but very consistently sopasted_image (resized).png
    And some things were so far off I don't know what could have happened... pasted_image (resized).png
    Overall, the stitching seems to have worked pretty well, but not good enough to really be a go-to thing. In the future I'll need to be more vigilant about cutting stuff exactly matching the cad, and adjusting the cad as I go when anything diverges to prevent this.

    I spend most of my day off today going through every hole again and manually adjusting my cad drawing (which the paper was printed from) to account for the discrepancies, so hopefully I'm now good to go. I'd like to avoid having to get another throwaway paper printed to verify all my changes, and I've got 3 sheets of acrylic ready to go, so I'm tempted to do a few test cuts on leftover stuff, then just get cutting and see how I do. Probably not the smartest thing to do but at some point you've gotta stop preparing and just jump in, and the cost of failure is theoretically pretty low (or it would be if I could find any reliable source of plastic locally, grr)

    #198 8 months ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    Probably not the smartest thing to do but at some point you've gotta stop preparing and just jump in, and the cost of failure is theoretically pretty low

    Failure is just knowledge learned.

    Following.

    #199 8 months ago

    Definitely strange that some things lined up well and others were really far off. What do you think the issue was? I’m about to start out on the scanning and CADing myself. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

    #200 8 months ago
    Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

    Definitely strange that some things lined up well and others were really far off. What do you think the issue was? I’m about to start out on the scanning and CADing myself. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

    A lot of it comes down to what your reference points are I think. Since my first playfield was hand cut, there wasn't much that I could really rely on as being exactly matching the cad, other than the flipper locations. So I tried to reference most stuff of the centers of the nearest flipper shaft. If there wasn't one nearby, not sure how accurate I can be. Some of it may just be user error too. I banged most of the reverse CAD out over night one weekend, so maybe I just screwed up somewhere....

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