I'm sure theres a joke to be made at Deeproot's expense here somewhere

UL certification is a complicated drawn out ordeal. Takes months if not years from my experience.

It's a bit different but Spooky not having a CE certification was reason for me to buy my ACNC from a distributor in the EU and not directly from Spooky.

That way someone else would handle the import and paperwork (and hopefully the risk if it wouldn't get through).

Edit: btw afaik CE is self-certifying. You don't have to get it tested somewhere, but work in a certain way (and be able to prove it). All electronics sold in EU should have it. If not customs can block the import. And if something goes wrong, insurance can deny any claims. So for someone who wants to put it on route it can have important consequences.

Background information:

https://www.petra.com/blog/do-i-need-ul-certification-for-my-product/

Personally, UL certification (or CE certification) is not something I ever look for, so whether or not a product (or pinball machine) has it hasn't really mattered to me.

If there were more widely reported safety issues with various products that don't have it, then maybe I might pay more attention to it. But I haven't really ever heard of the lack of UL certification being an issue.

I think the risk of potential lawsuits for product safety failures is probably enough to ensure that manufacturers test their products as best they can for those kind of problems.

Only time I've ever had to worry about UL was at work. Within city limits, any equipment that is hard-wired into the power system needs to be UL certified, which is a frustrating process. If it plugs into a power socket, no UL requirement. You'd be surprised how much manufacturing equipment running 480v 3-phase doesn't carry UL certs.

Some of our customers at work carry UL certification, and it's a lot of paperwork and headache to maintain the certification. With all the parts shortages we have these days it's also becoming a big hinderance if we need to make substitutions.

-Hans

UL certification is not a low cost or minor ordeal.

UL does involve some safety aspects, and does offer some assurance of safety. But it's also an organization that exists as a profit center and a bureaucracy .... neither of which comes cheap to the customer.

There is probably a chance that you could buy a non-UL listed pinball machine, and die in bed as a result of a midnight fire. But the odds of that are probably far below the odds of a Boeing 737 landing on your roof and killing you as you sleep. Life goes on...until it doesn't.

If the parts are NOT UL certified or recognized, you just need to procedurally describe the circuit and the operating conditions. Once your UL rep reviews this, then you can use the non certified parts in your UL certified project.

I guess like all things, small is relative.
I helped a company once design / test / market a product. The design started in 2015, was finally ready for sale in 2017. I left the company in 2018, we had sold less than a dozen. Being personally involved, I oversaw at least $1M in design cost, testing, prototypes etc. One item required for testing cost $100K alone.
While it wasn't entertainment related, it was still UL. We actually had to use ETL for the actual cert, UL could not figure out how we needed to test our product despite them having written the standard we were building to. Further, there were only 8 components of our design.
Next time you purchase an electric component for your home / work, I'm betting if you find a certification tag, it is going to be ETL. I've not actually seen any new electrical product I've sourced in the past few years with a UL tag. They all seem to be ETL these days.

Thinking CGC is having this issue with CCR as none have come to Canada and one awaiting a sticker before it can cross the border !

I'm an electrical engineer for the largest UL508a panel shop west of the Mississippi river. I would love to see what that quote actually entails. Typically you cant get UL to modify 5 lines of a procedure for under 4k, let alone test a product for less than a pinball. The last time I put a product through their Northbrook office for testing it cost over $40k and it took 9 months from start to finish. Are you sure that's not a quote for an inspection? UL never tests components on location, you always have to send it to one of their labs.

UL compliance involves a lot more than just testing. Every month one of their field engineers shows up, inspects components, assemblies, and UL label logs. For monthly inspections alone we pay UL tens of thousands of dollars a year.

UL requires, I believe the number is 3 complete pinball machines for them to destroy. The MFG does not get them back. Plus the cost of testing. That can be very costly for a small Pinball Company. I don’t know if that is per title or just the general design of the machine.

Yeah with UL it's not just what you make, also but how it's made and under what conditions. PITA to keep certified.

You're telling me. It's literally a full time job to maintain UL certification for a product line, especially in my industry. It's definitely not a "one and done" ordeal.

So it sounds expensive, complicated and not required. There's your answer op.

UL certification is a bit of a joke for most industries, too. Like was said, they're a for-profit, voluntary service. At an RV manufacturer I used to work for, all our installed stuff was "UL listed". All that really was involved with that was sending them a picture of the installed components, a description of the parts used and how they were installed, and a monetary fee. We only did this for the sake of the consumer as it made them feel "safer". We really did whatever we wanted(especially since every single RV we built was essentially a custom one-off), then decided if it varied enough from the original design we submitted to UL to warrant a new certification. Most of the time it didn't. Same components, just different wiring setups.

Basically, when I think of UL certification, I think of that scene in Tommy Boy:

Absolutely. If UL certification isnt required for your product, dont do it. We sell our product in several states that have UL requirements in their electrical code. Otherwise that's a headache that's best left alone.

Interesting picture I just found by French Hexa Pinball, about getting the CE certification for their machine.

FB_IMG_1711885248616 (resized).jpg

In this day and age, the slot machine manufacturers get either an MET or ETL certification for their products at all assembly plants. There are surprise visits (usuallythree times a year) made by these organizations or their local representatives to make sure everything is in compliance. Note on the MET tag, the machine manufacturer states it complies with UL and CSA standards.

You pay $6k to register a plant and then $2k/year for inspections and renewals.

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