(Topic ID: 74647)

Pinball Machine trips RCD breaker


By jrawlinson_2000

5 years ago



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#1 5 years ago

I have a WOZ which every week trips the house's sockets outlet RDC breaker.

This only happens when I switch on the WOZ, I then turn it off, go under the stairs and reset the 62A RCD breaker, then turn on WOZ and its fine.

As I have said this will happen maybe once a week, I tend to switch the machine on most days.

I have 6 other machines NONE of which do this.

Any idea on what to look for or how to test what is wrong?

I did plug the WOZ into its own RCD breaker into the socket it goes into in a hope that this would trip next time and not the entire house, no such joy it tripped as well as the main sockets RCD again.

Very frustrating...

BTW I live in the UK

#2 5 years ago

Sorry I can't really help with your problem. But an FYI to other readers, the US equivalent of an RCD breaker is a GFCI outlet or breaker.

#3 5 years ago

Can you plug WOZ into its own RCD breaker, but then run an extension cord to another (ideally non RCD) circuit?

#4 5 years ago

WOZ draws a bunch of inrush current, mine was an early production model and it came with no inrush current limiter. I don't know if they now come with one. Mine would trip my RCD on cold start up. After the caps have a little charge, it won't trip the RCD as the inrush isn't as great. Let the machine sit for a little bit, the caps will discharge, and it will trip the RCD on the next power up.

I opened a ticket and asked for an inrush current limiter. They sent me one, I installed it, it made no difference. I'll have to look up what resistance it was, but it was less resistance than what is used on WPC games. I'm guessing WOZ needs more current limiting than what they sent me. I reported that it was still tripping the RCD, got no response. I gave up and rewired the outlet that WOZ is plugged into. Not the best solution but I got tired of messing with it. None of my other games trip the RCD and I had 5 plugged into the same run at one time (20 amp circuit.)

#5 5 years ago

Blowing a 62 amp breaker? That's something pretty serious, that's a big breaker to trip.

rd.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Blowing a 62 amp breaker? That's something pretty serious, that's a big breaker to trip.
rd.

Ditto, My Miller 230v welder doesnt even draw that much.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Blowing a 62 amp breaker? That's something pretty serious, that's a big breaker to trip.
rd.

6.2A 230v

#8 5 years ago

In NZ a 60 amp breaker is something we use on heavy 3 phase industrial equipment.

We use 10amp breakers for lighting and 20amp for power circuits.

Blowing a 6.2amp fuse/breaker would be understandable ... But 62amp? Wow.

Unless the breaker was faulty. That can happen.

rd

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Blowing a 62 amp breaker? That's something pretty serious, that's a big breaker to trip.

He's not tripping the breaker due to amperage. It doesn't matter how big the breaker is, if there is an imbalance (as is the case with inrush) it is going to trip the RCD.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

He's not tripping the breaker due to amperage. It doesn't matter how big the breaker is, if there is an imbalance (as is the case with inrush) it is going to trip the RCD.

True that.

rd.

#11 5 years ago

A RCD breaker - (Residual-current device) is the same as a GFCI (Ground-Fault circuit interrupter) in North America.

The voltage "lost" while the capacitors charge is not returning on the neutral - thereby producing an imbalance in the load.
The RCD breaker senses that more current is being supplied than is returning to the source and opens the circuit.
It has nothing to do with over-current limitation. This machine would trip a 5 amp RCD or a 500 amp RCD - no difference.

I am interested in the engineering work-around if one is available. I'm curious to study what device can alleviate this condition and to study the theory on how it operates.
Very cool discussion.
I hope you will continue to follow-up on this topic.

#12 5 years ago

Just to make sure I understand this:

WOZ power supply is made in some odd way that the charging caps are tripping the RCD/GFCI ?

Even giant tube amps that have some really large caps to charge don't trip my GFCI in my kitchen....

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

WOZ power supply is made in some odd way that the charging caps are tripping the RCD/GFCI ?

There's nothing odd about it. It just depends on the caps and the circuit. WOZ just so happens to pull enough current on power up that it doesn't play nice with a GFI. It could also depend on the GFI and its threshold for imbalance, some people may not be having problems. The caps on your tube amp may not pull enough current fast enough to be a problem. Who knows.

#14 5 years ago

What if the op plugs it into a battery back power supply (UPS)... do those work on the load side as well as the line side?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Can you plug WOZ into its own RCD breaker, but then run an extension cord to another (ideally non RCD) circuit?

Sadly not all my house sockets are on these 'breakers'

I have plugged the WOZ into its own breaker in a hope that would trip and not the rest of the house, but no such luck when it trips it still trips the main breaker!

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

WOZ draws a bunch of inrush current, mine was an early production model and it came with no inrush current limiter. I don't know if they now come with one. Mine would trip my RCD on cold start up. After the caps have a little charge, it won't trip the RCD as the inrush isn't as great. Let the machine sit for a little bit, the caps will discharge, and it will trip the RCD on the next power up.
I opened a ticket and asked for an inrush current limiter. They sent me one, I installed it, it made no difference. I'll have to look up what resistance it was, but it was less resistance than what is used on WPC games. I'm guessing WOZ needs more current limiting than what they sent me. I reported that it was still tripping the RCD, got no response. I gave up and rewired the outlet that WOZ is plugged into. Not the best solution but I got tired of messing with it. None of my other games trip the RCD and I had 5 plugged into the same run at one time (20 amp circuit.)

Thanks for this, its a real pain in the arse! As today I must have tried a dozen times to get WOZ going but no luck trip every damn time!

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

it trips it still trips the main breaker

Wow ,sounds like a warranty issue.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from tripp:

What if the op plugs it into a battery back power supply (UPS)... do those work on the load side as well as the line side?

Now this sounds like an interesting idea! Free to try if you have a computer battery backup (UPS) in your house, or you know of a friend that has one.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

I have plugged the WOZ into its own breaker in a hope that would trip and not the rest of the house, but no such luck when it trips it still trips the main breaker!

So you are actually tripping the main breaker? That doesn't sound right. My game tripped my RCD, but never tripped my 20 amp breaker nor the main 200 amp breaker.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from stangbat:

WOZ draws a bunch of inrush current, mine was an early production model and it came with no inrush current limiter.

Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

I have plugged the WOZ into its own breaker in a hope that would trip and not the rest of the house, but no such luck when it trips it still trips the main breaker!

Can you try installing an inrush limiter? That's quite easy: install an NTC in series with the line. Normally I would install this in the machine itself, but since it is a brandnew machine with warranty you can also make an extension cord with NTC inside.

The UPS is also an option, but more expensive.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

Can you try installing an inrush limiter?

Keep reading my post that you quoted.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from jrawlinson_2000:

Sadly not all my house sockets are on these 'breakers'

I have plugged the WOZ into its own breaker in a hope that would trip and not the rest of the house, but no such luck when it trips it still trips the main breaker!

Sorry I was not more clear.

I was asking if you could plug WOZ into a non- RCD outlet, but with a separate RCD on the line cord.

For instance, here in the USA I have an extension cord with it's own GFCI molded into it.

#23 5 years ago

I am having a similar issue, not WOZ but IJ

When I plug IJ (Williams) into the wall outlet (not turning on the pin) it trips the GFCI but does not trip the 15 amp breaker. I have three other pins plugged into the same wall outlet RFM, SS and Fire. The breaker does not trip when these pins are plugged into the same wall outlet, nor trips when any or all of those are turned on and being played.
I have run an extension cord from a different outlet attached to a different breaker and the breaker does not trip when IJ is plugged in or when it is turned on and being played.

I have looked on rgp and was unable to find any such posts....Any ideas on this?

#24 5 years ago

One more thing which comes to mind.

In North America - there are two types of GFCI breaker in commercial applications.
There are those breakers which are listed as "personnel protection" and they have a lower trip thresh-hold.
However, there are also "equipment rated" GFCI breakers which have a higher trip thresh-hold.

Is this true of RCDs?

If so, you might consider installing an "equipment rated" RCD (should they exist).
Commercial kitchens in North America have been having similar problems. The "equipment rated" GFCI seems to be solving the issue.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Sorry I was not more clear.
I was asking if you could plug WOZ into a non- RCD outlet, but with a separate RCD on the line cord.
For instance, here in the USA I have an extension cord with it's own GFCI molded into it.

Sorry, but the house does not have any non-breaker circuits.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

Can you try installing an inrush limiter? That's quite easy: install an NTC in series with the line. Normally I would install this in the machine itself, but since it is a brandnew machine with warranty you can also make an extension cord with NTC inside.
The UPS is also an option, but more expensive.

I have found this in the UK, is this what you are suggesting;

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/42-742_CANFORD-MAINS-INRUSH-CURRENT-LIMITER-230V

#27 5 years ago

Isolation transformer should take care of it. But it would be nice to know where the leakage is coming from. I'd be curious to see the schematic for the power supply.

3 years later
#28 2 years ago

Very old thread but still relevant and I came across it on a google search. I figured it may be useful to post as i have directly followed the advice referenced with positive results

I had the same issue with the RCD tripping for various pins on initial power up and so thought I’d give the Canford Inrush Current Limiter a try

Whilst expensive ( £130 ) I’m really pleased with it, works a treat. RCD no longer trips and the pin dosent even have the tell tale clunk when powering up, much more refined

Defiantly worth considering

( photo was taken when I was initially trialing it hence the untidy setup )

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