(Topic ID: 144597)

Pinball lighting: facts and myths

By swampfire

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 years ago by dothedoo
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    #65 8 years ago

    In regards to playfield plastics warping, I have installed a lot of vinyl siding over the years. With vinyl siding, you have to leave a gap in the J channel in the corners for the siding to expand and contract with the weather. Plastics don't have any room to expand with screws or posts holding it down. Heat is the cause of the expansion but where is the heat coming from? Incandescents could be causing it but it would likely not be just the one underneath a plastic. It would probably be the combined bulbs of the whole playfield. The heat from the bulbs would be trapped under the glass causing a little hot box and making the plastics expand and warp. The proposed experiment with LEDs on one side and incandescents on the other may not be the correct way to recreate these conditions.

    Now I can't account for where my machines have been through the years either. So another cause of warped plastics could be that a game was simply left in a garage or shed in extreme summer heat. That would cause plastics to expand as well.

    #70 8 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    OK, I'll let the group vote on this one. These pictures were taken with identical camera settings: F 1/4, 1/125 exposure, ISO1600.
    I think the Comet twin-2835 and CoinTaker Cool Frosted illuminate more of the playfield art than the #44 bulbs, and with equal or better dispersion. Please thumbs up to agree, thumbs down to disagree. Note that this is not a vote on which looks best! I like the #44 bulb best for color rendering, but that's irrelevant here.
    Incandescent:
    IMG_7404_44INC.JPG
    Comet twin 2835, in "Sunlight White":
    IMG_7405_Comet_Sunlight.JPG
    Cointaker Frosted "Cool White":
    IMG_7407_CT_Frosted.JPG
    Comet 2-LED Comfort-Bright "Natural White" (Frosted):
    IMG_7408_Comet_Cool_Comfort.JPG
    Apologies for not using a tripod. When I get back from this weekend trip, I'll repeat the experiment with more bulbs, and a tripod.

    If you click on the pic and press the arrows keys to go back and forth, it definitely looks like the LEDs shine farther. I also like the Cointaker Frosted Cool White for the color. Incandescents make the face too dark and Comet Sunlight is a little too bright and washes out the color. The Cointaker frosted is just right with color and shines as far as the Comet Sunlight. Thanks for doing this, I'll have to remember the results.

    #87 8 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Yeah, just like the chart I posted shows, the UV radiation emitted by sunlight dwarfs that of incandescent bulbs. However, incandescent do still radiate measurable UV, compared to virtually none from LEDs.
    Unless someone's got more science to throw around, though, it's still an open question whether incandescent bulbs radiate enough to do significant damage, or at least what kind of timeframes and proximities we need to see the effects. These are unknowns as far as I know. However, there is certainly enough info to say the following two items are fact:
    1. UV radiation is damaging to plastic - it yellows them and makes them brittle, and it fades paint. ( I can provide links detailing the chemical processes involved if this is still in dispute)
    2. Incandescents emit several orders of magnitude more UV radiation than LEDs. (See the chart I posted earlier - UV radiation is the 100 to 400nm range of that chart).

    Would cigarette smoke yellow plastics as well? I've seen white cabinets turn a terrible yellow from cigarette smoke. It can be cleaned up a little but it seems to stay off white. I would assume smoke would affect plastics the same.

    #95 8 years ago
    Quoted from stangbat:

    If you spend any time around EM games or solid state games with screened backglasses you really can't dispute this. You'll see flaked and peeled backglasses right in front of bulbs. It isn't universal because different manufacturers used different paints that were more or less susceptible to flaking. And some colors were more prone to flaking than others. But no doubt, the heat can damage the paint and cause it to flake.

    Good Ventilation seems to help this. On my City Slicker backglass there are two 555 right up against the glass where the headlights are but the glass didn't peel there because there is no light board to trap heat. It peeled at the bottom where the displays are up against the glass and prevent air from moving the heat away.

    Edit: Now that I think about it, I guess the 555s aren't on all of time either. So maybe a bad example.

    #103 8 years ago
    Quoted from swampfire:

    Jawjaw, I don't think of INC bulbs as "retro", more like "original". I agree that cost is the main issue, but I'll add one more: color fidelity. I think LEDs wash out some of the colors on the playfield and plastics, especially when using cool LEDs around red/yellow/orange art. IMVE looks harsh to me for that reason. But color fidelity is a very subjective topic. I wouldn't be foolish enough to try to convince someone who likes LEDs that INCs "look better". It's all very personal, and even for me it varies from game to game.
    I will say that when I saw my friend's MET-LED, I really liked it. The blues and whites on the playfield really popped, and it looked like a totally different game. Likewise, I really like the CT frosted bulbs in my Space Station GI. That started with replacing just the green bulbs so I could see during multiball. Then I did the normal GI and I was really happy with the overall result.

    I thought your example of Shadow with incandescents didn't look good at all when it came to color fidelity. The colors were a lot darker and Khan's face looked orange. There wasn't a pic of the plastic with normal lighting from the front but I think it's safe to assume that the colors on the plastic weren't that dark to begin with.

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