(Topic ID: 143058)

Pinball Labs - A New Pinball Simulator/Editor/API for VR,Cabs and Homebrew


By tmek

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by fantarama
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    #1 5 years ago

    Edit: The Pinball Labs Kickstarter is LIVE!

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820215579/pinball-labs

    Hi guys!

    I'm the developer of a new pinball simulator, editor and API called "Pinball Labs".

    In addition to the virtual pinball community, I'm hoping to make Pinball Labs useful to homebrew enthusiasts by providing an interface to development frameworks and hardware controllers.

    Ideally this would allow using Pinball Labs as a testing environment for research and development: Game play and controller logic could be inexpensively experimented with, in a modern software simulation, before committing resources to expensive parts, labor and materials.

    Here's a quick video (downloadable demo links in the description.)

    Here's a playlist showing progress made over the last couple of months.

    http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAdBdx7wOXT5nSpRKJ810wBPY6YrNON0E

    I hope to launch a small Kickstarter soon to allow me to work on Pinball Labs full time. The Kickstarter preview page goes into more detail about the proposed features and timeline.

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820215579/1338300277?token=606ce3f9

    If Pinball Labs sounds interesting to you, I'd love to get permission to use images or video of your homebrew project in the Kickstarter.

    I'd also love to hear what you think of the project!

    Thanks!
    tmek

    #2 5 years ago

    Wow, awesome! I wish you much success in your kickstarter. What a great project!

    #3 5 years ago

    Very cool ....be sure to keep us posted when you launch the kickstarter...this is a project that i would happily back....and i cant wait to be able to download and use the final product!
    Best of luck!
    --ed

    #4 5 years ago

    Have you talked to the P-ROC or FAST folks? Having a 3D dev environment for those controllers would be very welcome.

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Have you talked to the P-ROC or FAST folks? Having a 3D dev environment for those controllers would be very welcome.

    The PyProcGame P-ROC'ers have been able to use Visual Pinball 9 and now are using Visual Pinball X, too. More options in the space would be better.

    Not sure what sort of API you're going to provide to link to game code but if you'd like to talk send me a PM.

    You might also want to talk to horseypin, who has been on the forefront of the use of VP X with PyProcGameHD, for the development of entirely virtual tables.

    #6 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mocean:

    The PyProcGame P-ROC'ers have been able to use Visual Pinball 9 and now are using Visual Pinball X, too. More options in the space would be better.
    Not sure what sort of API you're going to provide to link to game code but if you'd like to talk send me a PM.
    You might also want to talk to horseypin, who has been on the forefront of the use of VP X with PyProcGameHD, for the development of entirely virtual tables.

    I had seen Tmek's video a few weeks ago and that was the first thing I asked about. It's very nice software & would love for it. Tmek has it in the list, I hope the kickstarter succeeds.

    There's a nice more in depth thread about it all on VPF.

    #7 5 years ago

    Thanks guys.

    I showed Pinball Labs to the Mission Pinball guys and I think there was some interest there. I attempted to contact FAST but I was getting an error using their website's contact page so I tried through Twitch. I'm not sure if they ever received the message.

    I think it would be great to see a sort of standard protocol for streaming pinball events evolve. Basically a "MIDI" for pinball devices and controllers.

    I did a proof of concept of a lightweight binary protocol that I call Pinball Event Protocol (PEP). It allows me to stream switch, lamp, driver and DMD events across different processes or even different machines.

    Here's a video showing it being used to drive a Pinball Labs table with a PinMAME controller. Again, what's unique about this is the controller is being hosted in a completely separate process, it could very easily be running on another machine or conceivably a stand alone hardware controller.

    (Excuse some of quirky physics in this example as the table has some bad geometry.)

    Here's another video showing a single controller (again PinMAME) communicating with multiple separate processes.

    #8 5 years ago

    Fast pinball is on pinside here as well

    #9 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mocean:

    The PyProcGame P-ROC'ers have been able to use Visual Pinball 9 and now are using Visual Pinball X, too.

    When I was trying to get the VP Getaway running PyProcGame I failed miserably. The chain of Windows -> Visual Basic -> Python -> Virtual Pinball was always clunky and required a lot of highly technical understanding.

    If this could go PyProcGame / MPF -> Virtual Table direct, and also be available on Mac! Sign me up!

    #10 5 years ago
    Quoted from tmek:

    Thanks guys.
    I showed Pinball Labs to the Mission Pinball guys and I think there was some interest there. I attempted to contact FAST but I was getting an error using their website's contact page so I tried through Twitch. I'm not sure if they ever received the message.
    I think it would be great to see a sort of standard protocol for streaming pinball events evolve. Basically a "MIDI" for pinball devices and controllers.
    I did a proof of concept of a lightweight binary protocol that I call Pinball Event Protocol (PEP). It allows me to stream switch, lamp, driver and DMD events across different processes or even different machines.
    Here's a video showing it being used to drive a Pinball Labs table with a PinMAME controller. Again, what's unique about this is the controller is being hosted in a completely separate process, it could very easily be running on another machine or conceivably a stand alone hardware controller.
    (Excuse some of quirky physics in this example as the table has some bad geometry.)
    » YouTube video
    Here's another video showing a single controller (again PinMAME) communicating with multiple separate processes.
    » YouTube video

    Sorry about the website issue. I moved it to another server and must have messed something up.

    I'll PM you my info. There has been some discussion of your work amongst the FAST User group.

    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    When I was trying to get the VP Getaway running PyProcGame I failed miserably. The chain of Windows -> Visual Basic -> Python -> Virtual Pinball was always clunky and required a lot of highly technical understanding.
    If this could go PyProcGame / MPF -> Virtual Table direct, and also be available on Mac! Sign me up!

    There's an installer that will get you up and running in PyProcGameHD and another that will get your VP set up with PyProcGameHD (made by horseypin). Might be worth looking again

    #12 5 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    When I was trying to get the VP Getaway running PyProcGame I failed miserably. The chain of Windows -> Visual Basic -> Python -> Virtual Pinball was always clunky and required a lot of highly technical understanding.

    Well, it was never really that easy and yes it's a lot to take in.

    If you went by JD example and VP9...going through lots of its pygame & VP script, for someone new wanting to learn, that probably would've been too much for alot of people.

    A lot has been improved though, especially much easier installs and Micheals framework. I made a basic game for VP10 & skeleton, you should try it out again, it's really stripped down. All game modules, VP script, machine config. You are ready to go in about 15 minutes.

    With that you can take a look through and pick it up easier first. Modding it etc. You'll see it's not too much work.

    #13 5 years ago

    I will read up about your efforts. You can use our FAST Pin Protocol (same thing MPF uses to communicate directly with out hardware) to interface directly with the hardware. All that is needed to be installed to do so is the FTDI Virtual COM port driver.

    Aaron
    FAST Pinball

    #14 5 years ago

    would love to hear more about this. The physics look great. Seems like because it's a true 3d environment using the unreal4 engine, it'll make laying things out much easier. #1 thing I hate about both virtual pinballs is that everything is done in 2d with layers and heights. I'm used to designing in 3d in solidworks, and panning around the object to make sure it looks right.

    #15 5 years ago

    Provided you will have device workshop ready in time, I'm pretty sure this will be the first kick starter I ever donate to.

    #16 5 years ago

    Very interested in this project.

    #17 5 years ago

    Sounds interesting... but I guess I'm wondering what the value is?
    I'd love someone to take the STMU files and create a standalone virtual table that anyone could enjoy if they wanted to.
    Then I'd love the use some kind of editor to work thru some concept geometries for the Borderlands: The Pinball Project; then output a drawing / DXF so I can do some minor editing to go to CNC.

    Not sure how you project fits with those needs.

    #18 5 years ago

    As I'm working on the editor components for Pinball Labs I've been seeing things fall into two main categories.

    Group 1.) Things that interact with controller hardware or have moving parts. (dynamic)
    Including switches, lamps, solenoids and their various compound devices: bumpers, flippers, slingshots, gates, drop targets, toys, diverters, etc.

    Group 2.) Things that do not interact with controller hardware and do not move. (static)
    This would include ramps, habitrails, lane guides, wall guides, wire guides, plastics, posts/rubbers, etc.

    "Devices" seems to encompass group 1. Does an umbrella term exist in real world pinball design that encompasses group 2? Perhaps Flow, Structure, or Layout components?

    1 week later
    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from Lonzo:

    Very interested in this project.

    Same here. Any further updates on this project?

    3 weeks later
    #20 5 years ago

    Man I'm excited for this project! Any sense for type type of specs for a computer? Especially for not full VR, but just playable?

    Quoted from tmek:

    "Devices" seems to encompass group 1. Does an umbrella term exist in real world pinball design that encompasses group 2? Perhaps Flow, Structure, or Layout components?

    I don't know of a universal term. Personally I like "structural" or something like that? Or just "playfield parts?" You might browse the websites of Marco Specialities, Pinball Life, and Bay Area Amusements to see the category names they use for things for some inspiration?

    #21 5 years ago

    Hey guys!

    I'm excited to announce the Pinball Labs Kickstarter is now LIVE!

    full url: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1820215579/pinball-labs
    tiny URL: http://kck.st/1YaC8dH

    Pinball Labs is amazing new pinball simulator, editor and API, featuring highly realistic physics
    and visuals with support for PC, VR and Virtual Cabinets.

    Most of all, we want Pinball Labs to be a lot of fun! Join us on our adventure to write the next
    chapter of Pinball's time-honored, storied gaming tradition, by making our Kickstarter a reality.
    Make a pledge today and spread the word about Pinball Labs!

    Pinball-Labs-Kickstarter.png

    #22 5 years ago
    Quoted from tmek:

    I'm excited to announce the Pinball Labs Kickstarter is now LIVE!

    So I have question. You mention this:
    " our API supports connectivity of virtual pinball to real world hardware or emulators"

    Not sure what this implies. Are we talking about controlling solenoids and shaker motors to make virtual cabinets feel more real, or do you think this can be used similiar to PROC where I test my layout virtually (including building my code), then that same code can be used to run a real pinball game? Or both?

    Also from the standpoint of just the simulator, how does it compare to future pinball and visual pinball (beyond the fact that you're creating in a true 3d envoirnment). Can I import new models as needed (for toys for instance, or maybe I want to model my ramps in a 3rd party program)? And if so, what format? (I'm assuming since this is based on the Unreal 4 engine, it needs to be .fbx)?

    #23 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Are we talking about controlling solenoids and shaker motors to make virtual cabinets feel more real, or do you think this can be used similiar to PROC where I test my layout virtually (including building my code), then that same code can be used to run a real pinball game? Or both?
    Also from the standpoint of just the simulator, how does it compare to future pinball and visual pinball (beyond the fact that you're creating in a true 3d envoirnment). Can I import new models as needed (for toys for instance, or maybe I want to model my ramps in a 3rd party program)? And if so, what format? (I'm assuming since this is based on the Unreal 4 engine, it needs to be .fbx)?

    Yes to both! The idea is that pinball labs API will manage an event stream for virtual and physical switches, lights, solenoids and other devices. Check out this video where I demonstrate this. All communication is done over an event stream hosted by a server process. An infinite number of client processes can connect and read or write pinball events to the stream. The concept is a lot like MIDI for digital musical devices. There will be an easy to use software library that allows easily interfacing with the Pinball event stream.

    Secondly, I absolutely want to allow homebrew to simulate their creations in Pinball Labs tested against their actual logic written for PROC or FAST Pinball. This is something I'm very interested in myself. Bear in mind that interacting with live simulations with platforms like PROC and FAST pinball will take some time so it will probably be one of the latter features added.

    Yes, .FBX will be the format for custom models. Although I hope to limit the need for that as much as possible. There will be built in spline based editing for walls, surfaces, rubbers, ramps and habitrails. So hopefully custom models will only be required for things like toys.

    #24 5 years ago

    Cool stuff. Hope this gains some traction!

    It should be very straightforward to wrap libpinproc with your API implementation, allowing you to configure and control a P-ROC (or P3-ROC) setup with very little work. No need to reimplement all of the low level communications to the hardware; that's already done by libpinproc.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #25 5 years ago

    This one will succeed. I think it's a really fair model, affordable to all, a potential life eating game\editor for $45 ain't bad.

    A few weeks back I installed UE and played around. Camera movements & smoothness of the whole thing is great, it's going to be nice for pinball.

    Good luck

    #26 5 years ago

    I don't really like virtual pinball but I backed it. More options out there is probably a good thing.

    #27 5 years ago

    Will this be released for anything other than Windows?

    #28 5 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Will this be released for anything other than Windows?

    Hi Erik!

    Pinball Labs is built using Unreal Engine 4 which supports several platforms.

    While the Kickstarter version will be Windows only initially, I hope one day to have Windows, Mac and Linux versions with full editor support. The VR support for Mac and Linux would be dependent on Unreal Engine's support at that time.

    On the mobile side I would like to explore creating Android and iOS versions of the Pinball Labs simulator that allow you to download and play tables but without the built in editor support.

    These would be things I would explore after the current Kickstarter rewards have been met. But I am pretty excited about the potential there.

    #29 5 years ago

    Im in on Wizard tier. Looks like you've almost hit 10%. Good luck!

    #30 5 years ago

    Sorry, another question (and yes, I'm totally backing this). How will this work for distributing tables. Will it be a file like a map on unreal engine, or something specific you created? Will every user need to install the unreal engine? Is it possible to compile say an executable (like the retro arcade game room), or would that be too large?
    http://www.digitalcybercherries.com

    #31 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Sorry, another question (and yes, I'm totally backing this). How will this work for distributing tables. Will it be a file like a map on unreal engine, or something specific you created? Will every user need to install the unreal engine? Is it possible to compile say an executable (like the retro arcade game room), or would that be too large?
    http://www.digitalcybercherries.com
    » YouTube video

    Thanks for backing Pinball Labs!

    Yes, it will be a standalone application like retro arcade game room. Probably 300-400MB installed and a ~130MB compressed download based on some of the other projects I've done. There will be a subfolder called \Tables under the main folder. Each virtual pinball machine will have a folder under that with machine definition, artwork, sound files and so on.

    I made a post early on about how these files might be structured and laid out and talked a bit about it here:

    http://i.imgur.com/MxsKoGo.png

    There's quite an extensive discussion about the project on this forum post if you are interested in more details like that:

    http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=32576&page=1

    (By the way I love that retro arcade VR demo. It really takes you back to when you were a kid!)

    #32 5 years ago

    very excited to get an early beta when it's ready. I'd be curious, is there limitations on table size? What I'm getting at, could it be possible to create something wacky like the total recall side by side table? Because it's not possible in the current 2 emulators:
    TR-pinball.jpg

    #33 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I'd be curious, is there limitations on table size?

    I was so annoyed at the arbitrary width limit in Future Pinball

    #34 5 years ago

    There will be a list of standard sizes but you'll be able to define custom playfield sizes in millimeters. If you get too large things may of course start to look a bit silly.

    I'm hoping to to generalize playfields as a component called a "surface". Surfaces will be used for main playfields, mini-playfields, plastics etc. You'll be able to define a shape of any surface using a 2D spline. Surfaces are planar but can be positioned and oriented however you like, such as the "boat" mini-playfield in Fish Tales.

    Components are attached to surfaces. When you reposition a surface (such as a mini-playfield) it's components are moved with it.

    I don't see any reason not to allow multiple large playfields as in the Total Recall example. That's not a problem in itself but having the game generate a custom "cabinet" that auto fits an arbitrary number of playfields laid out in various positions and orientations could be a bit challenging. You would likely have to provide your own cabinet model.

    #35 5 years ago

    This looks outstanding! UE4 for pinball is an excellent idea. Here's hoping the UI is easy enough for the coding-challenged to create a virtual machine. Backed!!

    #36 5 years ago
    Quoted from tmek:

    You would likely have to provide your own cabinet model.

    Not a problem
    t_recall_v1[1].jpg

    #37 5 years ago
    Quoted from tmek:

    There's quite an extensive discussion about the project on this forum post if you are interested in more details like that:

    http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=32576&page=1

    Lots to read, but looks like you have some good positive support from people who are knee deep in simulation supporting this project. Big thing I saw was someone posted a video of converting a pirates of the carribean from future pinball to visual pinball X (because of the improved lighting and ball trails). To me, visual pinball still looks crappier to me (but FP hasn't been updated since it's release). My hope is people wait for this to take off, and convert every table to pinball labs.

    #38 5 years ago

    More questions:
    1. Since your beta simulator is showing a walkable room (as apposed to future pinball where you're either standing in front of the machine, or flying over it), Can I assume it might be possible (very much like retro arcade game room) that at some point I could "build an arcade" where I have a specific row of machines all in the same room, and I walk up to each one (rather than flipping through a menu). If so, how does that work. Will the program do a dumbed down attract mode of each machine until I step up to it (so as to not put the CPU at full load)?

    2. Will the room always be generic, or is there a possibility for constructing a custom shaped gameroom, not unlike making unreal maps? And could those custom gamerooms be downloadable just like the games themselves?

    #39 5 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    More questions:
    1. Since your beta simulator is showing a walkable room (as apposed to future pinball where you're either standing in front of the machine, or flying over it), Can I assume it might be possible (very much like retro arcade game room) that at some point I could "build an arcade" where I have a specific row of machines all in the same room, and I walk up to each one (rather than flipping through a menu). If so, how does that work. Will the program do a dumbed down attract mode of each machine until I step up to it (so as to not put the CPU at full load)?
    2. Will the room always be generic, or is there a possibility for constructing a custom shaped gameroom, not unlike making unreal maps? And could those custom gamerooms be downloadable just like the games themselves?

    I definitely aspire to that. But something like that would have to come in a version after existing Kickstarter features are met. I have to watch the "feature creep" pretty closely to make sure I can fulfill what I've set out in the Kickstarter in a reasonable time frame.

    But just like you I would certainly love to have my own virtual arcade decked out with all my favorite pins! If Pinball Labs is successful I hope to keep evolving it and release a new version with major new features every year or two.

    If you haven't tried the alpha demo give it a try! It's not quite a playable game with scoring etc. but it should give you an idea of how the physics and visuals will be.

    alpha demo download:
    https://mega.nz/#!rIwVFTBS!nPrLgVrwTbQM3mJs6FMjOQhH460ziMis7yo0yj6aBhs

    #40 5 years ago

    bump
    13% funded, let's get this thing off the ground!

    #41 5 years ago
    Quoted from tmek:

    I showed Pinball Labs to the Mission Pinball guys and I think there was some interest there.

    I want to correct "some interest" to "MAJOR INTEREST" from the Mission Pinball guys!

    The API @tmek has created for Pinball Labs via that lightweight binary protocol he's calling Pinball Event Protocol (PEP) is fantastic. It lets external software (Mission Pinball Framework, PyProcGame, Open Pinball Framework, etc.) talk to the Pinball Labs virtual pinball machine's drivers, switches, lights, and LEDs just like a P-ROC, FAST, Open Pinball Project, etc. hardware device. It's dirt-simple and much easier and to use and modern than the external APIs for Future Pinball, Visual Pinball, and/or Visual PinMAME, and I'm really excited about it!

    If this program gets funded, virtual pinball will take a big step forward.

    #42 5 years ago
    Quoted from BrianMadden:

    The API @tmek has created for Pinball Labs via that lightweight binary protocol he's calling Pinball Event Protocol (PEP) is fantastic. It lets external software (Mission Pinball Framework, PyProcGame, Open Pinball Framework, etc.) talk to the Pinball Labs virtual pinball machine's drivers, switches, lights, and LEDs just like a P-ROC, FAST, Open Pinball Project, etc. hardware device. It's dirt-simple and much easier and to use and modern than the external APIs for Future Pinball, Visual Pinball, and/or Visual PinMAME, and I'm really excited about it!

    If this program gets funded, virtual pinball will take a big step forward.

    Thank you so much fore clearing this up (I think I saw you on the vpforum). Sounds like this is a killer program that if gets funded will be a HUGE jump in pinball emulation and the homebrew hobby. This software alone could be a huge boon for pushing the hardware side. Really hope this thread gains traction.

    #43 5 years ago

    Tried the demo and it is very impressive. Backed!

    Depending how contributions go maybe you can boost them by doing a mid-campaign demo with lighting controls and the completed table in the video. That is what most sims lack.

    #44 5 years ago

    I can't wait to try the alpha this evening. My work computer is a mac so I gotta wait. I did go ahead and back the KickStarter. Come on people we need 338 more people to back with $45. Or less if you can give more!

    #45 5 years ago
    Quoted from strangetown:

    Tried the demo and it is very impressive

    I ran it on my current crappy dual core cpu with a geforce 8400, it's very slow (but so does everything in the U4 envoirnment, or the retro arcade demo, or any modern game released in the last 3 years). I run most tables on future pinball fine, but that just goes to show you how efficient (but cumbersome to program) future pinball.
    I have a core i5 desktop 64-bit with 4gb ram and GT730 video card just waiting to get all my software transferred over, should run it fine. Just a heads up for those interested, computer has to be within this decade. For the record, the newer desktop is used, and cost less than $150.

    #46 5 years ago

    @tmek are there plans to open up the format of that PEP system? Open standards for that stuff means anything the community makes can all talk to each other.

    #47 5 years ago
    Quoted from chrisjubb:

    @tmek are there plans to open up the format of that PEP system? Open standards for that stuff means anything the community makes can all talk to each other.

    Absolutely, I have been working with Brian Madden over at Mission Pinball Framework and we both want it to be open as possible. I'll probably create a github project for PEP, or whatever it comes to be called, once we have a few working examples. It's not a complicated thing but by having a standard way of communicating should open up a lot of possibilities.

    #48 5 years ago

    Pledged the max plus a little extra! I'm really hoping this project gets funded and finished so I can get back to making original pinball games. Future Pinball was great despite its shortcomings, but ever since being abandoned/limited to PC, I never felt the urge to start up any of my other ideas for games.

    I would love the opportunity to recreate Junkyard Cats for the Unreal Engine, so I will be eagerly watching and supporting your progress!

    -BB

    #49 5 years ago

    Perhaps a later version of Hololens could integrate with Pinball Labs and you could play a holographic pin in any room of your house, or basically anywhere. Maybe it could tie into some sort of custom table that has flipper buttons and can be nudged etc., with the full 3d table laid out/looking just like the real thing. Just dreaming here... obviously.

    #50 5 years ago
    Quoted from simplykind:

    Perhaps a later version of Hololens could integrate with Pinball Labs and you could play a holographic pin in any room of your house, or basically anywhere. Maybe it could tie into some sort of custom table that has flipper buttons and can be nudged etc., with the full 3d table laid out/looking just like the real thing. Just dreaming here... obviously.

    Imagine using it to project extra info and effects on real machines

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