I played alot during the 90's with many friends, and we all played the same amount yet me and one buddy would crush everyone, he was my only competition. Practice can improve gameplay but some people just have it, like me Oh and you Ice. HA

That's still not cheating. You pushed it, and you lose. Pretty sure that's the rules.

I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game. It is 100% always physics. Our inability to predict the ball's motion does not mean that it isn't governed by physics. Power outages...I guess that's random luck.

OTOH, who am I to shake my fist at your voodoo?

Have fun and don't sweat it!

Then you've never played TX-Sector!

Yes.

I agree that physics plays a huge role in pinball. (I said that I loved the physics of pinball and that I feel I can control the ball once on a tv interview to which one announcer after the clip mentioned how surprised he was to hear the word "physics" used with pinball, and some other people scoffed at such a notion that pinball can be contolled).

I still think pinball can be contolled, I can admit I just am not skilled enough to prove it consistently. However, the pinball world has players like Keith Elwin. He and others of his caliber are just much better at mastering ball control and determining what the ball will do even when the ball is not on the flippers.

Demonstrative examples are when skillful players "pre-nudge" before the ball reaches the outlanes or begin sliding the machine when the ball is heading SDTM because they see the path the ball is taking and know how to alter it. Remember Bowen walking the ball back up the outlane on TAF!

I also think " Shatzing the inlane", drop and live catches, tap passes and loop passes are fantastic example of physics and ball control in pinball. All of the flipper moves Keith Elwin shows in his Pinball 101 video are pure physics awesomeness. (He even has the magnetism cartoon from middle school science class). Bang backs and death saves are more great physics examples.

I feel Keith Elwin may very well be the best proof of how much physics is in pinball.

But, if the general public thinks Keith is just the luckiest pinball player out there, then they probably still think the Earth is flat.

This, exactly. There is no luck. Only complex sequences of geometry, spin, friction and gravity. Just because we are unable of calculating such on the fly does not mean it's now random or luck.

So long as you're talking about life, the universe, and everything here and not just pinball, I'd agree. Of course pachinko and coin flipping also operate on "just physics," in that if you had the tools and mental bandwidth to monitor the nearly infinite variables at work as a ball or coin entered play, you could predict outcomes with great precision.

That is the key. I have trouble with insomnia at times. The difference between "rested pinball" and "insomnia pinball" is almost beyond belief.

The tired eye/ brain just cannot keep up with pinball even though it does pretty well at more typical day to day activities.

My views on this are reinforced for me by my experiences with another precision activity that folks usually assume is all about brute strength (Thanks Stallone), namely rock climbing. While strength to weight is important, I never completed a climbing project because I was suddenly stronger that day- it was always because my mind was working better, though it all obviously plays a role. The ability to visualize the fine points of what is happening cannot be underestimated. (Sadly, those days are long past, btw. )

It's all about physics and the brain's ability to calculate without numbers.

Ever gotten a mystery award?

You are correct, sir. I wish I knew what this meant.

???

Of course. Your point is understood, but I think it's clear from the context that what we're talking about is the motion of the ball.

Clearly, my blanket statement does not take this into account, but had I written it differently...

I don't think the mystery awards are nearly as "random" as we tend to think anyway. It seems to me that various awards are usually tied to other game factors in the code even if they're not abundantly obvious to casual the player. The "pity" extra ball light in PinBot is the first thing to come to mind for me here. My guests think the light just came on, while I realize that it's on because I suck.

Most non pinheads don't realize that every pinball machine has different ways to score points and for many advancing through rules. I get the vibe that most of them think you just randomly hit the flippers to hit things and that the rules are very basic regardless of the machine.

By that argument rolling dice isn't luck either. Just physics. Cmon, it's ok to admit some luck is involved, as it is in almost any game or sport. Pro athletes are some of the most superstitious folks around.

Just show some footage of PAPA finals. If they still say it's all luck, then they trollin'

My reaction is basically "God dammit Tyler stop talking about pinball all the time".

I would be very careful of that guy he could be lining all 3 of you up like ducks on a pond.

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