(Topic ID: 135177)

"Pinball is pretty much luck, not skill, right?"


By Soonerbrink

4 years ago



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  • 67 posts
  • 45 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by DarthXaos
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    There are 67 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 4 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Like everything else, the more you play/practice, the better you get.

    I played alot during the 90's with many friends, and we all played the same amount yet me and one buddy would crush everyone, he was my only competition. Practice can improve gameplay but some people just have it, like me Oh and you Ice. HA

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from skquinn:

    It's not cheating until the tilt bob hits the ring.

    That's still not cheating. You pushed it, and you lose. Pretty sure that's the rules.

    #53 4 years ago

    I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game. It is 100% always physics. Our inability to predict the ball's motion does not mean that it isn't governed by physics. Power outages...I guess that's random luck.

    OTOH, who am I to shake my fist at your voodoo?

    Have fun and don't sweat it!

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from PIN_GROOM:

    I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game.

    Then you've never played TX-Sector!

    #55 4 years ago
    Quoted from PIN_GROOM:

    I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game. It is 100% always physics. Our inability to predict the ball's motion does not mean that it isn't governed by physics.

    Yes.

    I agree that physics plays a huge role in pinball. (I said that I loved the physics of pinball and that I feel I can control the ball once on a tv interview to which one announcer after the clip mentioned how surprised he was to hear the word "physics" used with pinball, and some other people scoffed at such a notion that pinball can be contolled).

    I still think pinball can be contolled, I can admit I just am not skilled enough to prove it consistently. However, the pinball world has players like Keith Elwin. He and others of his caliber are just much better at mastering ball control and determining what the ball will do even when the ball is not on the flippers.

    Demonstrative examples are when skillful players "pre-nudge" before the ball reaches the outlanes or begin sliding the machine when the ball is heading SDTM because they see the path the ball is taking and know how to alter it. Remember Bowen walking the ball back up the outlane on TAF!

    I also think " Shatzing the inlane", drop and live catches, tap passes and loop passes are fantastic example of physics and ball control in pinball. All of the flipper moves Keith Elwin shows in his Pinball 101 video are pure physics awesomeness. (He even has the magnetism cartoon from middle school science class). Bang backs and death saves are more great physics examples.

    I feel Keith Elwin may very well be the best proof of how much physics is in pinball.

    But, if the general public thinks Keith is just the luckiest pinball player out there, then they probably still think the Earth is flat.

    #56 4 years ago
    Quoted from PIN_GROOM:

    I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game. It is 100% always physics. Our inability to predict the ball's motion does not mean that it isn't governed by physics. Power outages...I guess that's random luck.
    OTOH, who am I to shake my fist at your voodoo?
    Have fun and don't sweat it!

    This, exactly. There is no luck. Only complex sequences of geometry, spin, friction and gravity. Just because we are unable of calculating such on the fly does not mean it's now random or luck.

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from Euchrid:

    This, exactly. There is no luck. Only complex sequences of geometry, spin, friction and gravity. Just because we are unable of calculating such on the fly does not mean it's now random or luck.

    So long as you're talking about life, the universe, and everything here and not just pinball, I'd agree. Of course pachinko and coin flipping also operate on "just physics," in that if you had the tools and mental bandwidth to monitor the nearly infinite variables at work as a ball or coin entered play, you could predict outcomes with great precision.

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    tools and mental bandwidth

    That is the key. I have trouble with insomnia at times. The difference between "rested pinball" and "insomnia pinball" is almost beyond belief.

    The tired eye/ brain just cannot keep up with pinball even though it does pretty well at more typical day to day activities.

    My views on this are reinforced for me by my experiences with another precision activity that folks usually assume is all about brute strength (Thanks Stallone), namely rock climbing. While strength to weight is important, I never completed a climbing project because I was suddenly stronger that day- it was always because my mind was working better, though it all obviously plays a role. The ability to visualize the fine points of what is happening cannot be underestimated. (Sadly, those days are long past, btw. )

    It's all about physics and the brain's ability to calculate without numbers.

    #59 4 years ago
    Quoted from PIN_GROOM:

    I continue to be amazed at the number of pinsiders (not regular folk) who insist that pinball is EVER random or luck. I've never seen a pinball vaporize and reappear elsewhere in the game. It is 100% always physics.

    Ever gotten a mystery award?

    #60 4 years ago
    Quoted from LOTR_breath:

    Then you've never played TX-Sector!

    You are correct, sir. I wish I knew what this meant.

    ???

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from Circus_Animal:

    Ever gotten a mystery award?

    Of course. Your point is understood, but I think it's clear from the context that what we're talking about is the motion of the ball.

    Clearly, my blanket statement does not take this into account, but had I written it differently...

    I don't think the mystery awards are nearly as "random" as we tend to think anyway. It seems to me that various awards are usually tied to other game factors in the code even if they're not abundantly obvious to casual the player. The "pity" extra ball light in PinBot is the first thing to come to mind for me here. My guests think the light just came on, while I realize that it's on because I suck.

    #62 4 years ago

    Most non pinheads don't realize that every pinball machine has different ways to score points and for many advancing through rules. I get the vibe that most of them think you just randomly hit the flippers to hit things and that the rules are very basic regardless of the machine.

    #63 4 years ago
    Quoted from Euchrid:

    This, exactly. There is no luck. Only complex sequences of geometry, spin, friction and gravity. Just because we are unable of calculating such on the fly does not mean it's now random or luck.

    By that argument rolling dice isn't luck either. Just physics. Cmon, it's ok to admit some luck is involved, as it is in almost any game or sport. Pro athletes are some of the most superstitious folks around.

    #64 4 years ago

    Just show some footage of PAPA finals. If they still say it's all luck, then they trollin'

    #65 4 years ago
    Quoted from ryanwanger:

    I'm surprised by the "don't talk to people about pinball" sentiment expressed by a few in this thread. I bring it up with everyone I can, and have brought a few people into the hobby that way. The most common reaction is people being surprised and curious - and it only takes me a minute or two for them to realize that "wow, pinball is a thing".

    My reaction is basically "God dammit Tyler stop talking about pinball all the time".

    #66 4 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    had some neighbors over on the 4th of July, I proposed a weekly poker group, and one of them said "oh, cool, I've always meant to learn to play poker" and about 3 of us were like "OH WE WILL TEACH YOU!"

    I would be very careful of that guy he could be lining all 3 of you up like ducks on a pond.

    #67 4 years ago
    Quoted from dendoc:

    Tell them to read this.

    Friends don't let friends link to Gawker

    https://archive.is/4rWgv

    so you can read without giving the worst media company in the world ad revenue.

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