If my dad didn't buy a pinball machine for our basement, I would of never got into pinball. Obviously now I enjoy playing on location, but if he didn't do that, I would most likely walk past a pinball machine in the wild if I saw one.

So this.

I remember the OP vibe. It was the 70's and 80's ime as well as for most and it has been long gone now. That and I'm not big on telling people what is right and wrong.

So I salute the pinball enthusiasts who have kept the hobby going by buying machines for their own enjoyment, in addition to the location game enthusiasts.

There is much merit to both ways of playing pinball. I see no need to have to choose a hill to die on.

I've played one location game in the last ten years. It was a POTC that was so blown out that NOTHING worked but the flippers. I walked away after one ball.

There are a couple of nice arcades here in Florida that I hope to make it too soon and pump some quarters...

Several collectors in my area host leagues, and open their homes regularly to groups of players. I will frequent bars that do have pins, but home collections have allowed me and many others in the area to play a lot more than we would otherwise be able to.

Totally missing most of Pinside collectors. We live in the burbs and many have families . We are not 20 year old hipsters and we are not going out to bars often.
FACT
Location pinball does not exist for us and will not!
I hit a few places in DC and even decent games play like shit compared to in the home with subs and cool mods.
Best of luck growing that market but it's not the majority of this group the home collector.

When I first read the post I was like WTH, but I see where he is coming from. Without location pinball I would probably never have played pinball at all. And now, I would like to own a pinball machine of my own. I am almost compelled to get a WOZ standard and get it out in the wild so that other 'new players' that have never played pinball can get a chance. I know it is hard for many Pinsiders to believe but there are quite a lot of people that have never played, or haven't played in over 20 years.

Also worth mentioning: The lack of arcades means that there's barely any places these days for teenagers to go to be with their friends and not get into TOO much trouble. It's a trend, really. Everything we used to go to social spaces for (video games and pinball, movies and entertainment, shit, some people even install bowling alleys in their houses), everyone does it at home. We build giant houses to house all our stuff so we never have to see other people. We build these houses far away from others, and you have to drive everywhere to get anywhere (further marooning teens in the house).

A lot of it is economics of coin-op, but its also about the way we built our suburban towns: without public spaces, heavily car dependent. It's one of the reasons that I chose to live in a dense, walkable city instead of saving a ton of money and moving 45 minutes from the city.

Good to hear. Where's it going to be?

Oh,wanted to let you know the league you started in C-ville is going strong.We have as many as 15 come out to play and have moved to the Ice Skate Arena.Lazy Parrot became to noisy,to crowded and poor service.The players in our league have become much better and is no longer a cake walk for me.Come out sometime and put up some high scores.

Truthful answer, not much.

As LTG points out, you need to deal with time, maintainence, broken machines. You need to factor in split with bar, insurance (VERY pricey and tough to find a policy that actually protects you and your games), annual liscence fees, paying sales tax, plus all sorts of others things you don't think about at the onset.

A small group of collectors in our area is trying to create 2 destination locations in the Madison (one on each side of town) area and if we were doing it for the money we would be pretty foolish from a business perspective. I hate to even think about it that way because it is all just part fo the hobby for me.

My understanding is that in a large city with the barcade style of venue then often there is no split or a very reduced split as the operator is actually providing the customer base and actual theme for the establishment. I also can only assume that this model is making some money as they are popping up in most big cities or areas with a dense population with pin players. That said, the guys I knwo doing this are barely making a living wage and they work almost non-stop to keep games running in these barcades.

We have a group of us splitting the cost and work and it is still a ton of effort if you think of it as work. I can only imagine the effort put in by a place like Molly runs out West or Logan's in chitown. Great places and great games, but only because of the great people that LOVE pinball and have dedicated their lives to making these almost magical places that still have the charm of the silveball.

Fortunately, it has been alit of fun and I cherish the good times and new friends I have made from this little experiement. We are still pushing forward and trying to grow pinball, but back to the core of your question... No, they don't make much money and your time could be spent better elsewhere if you are only looking at your payment in finacial ways.

Went to a location last night that has 7 games.
JP-did not play, but looked good and others did play it
TS- wanted to play bad, but quarter slots were not working
i500 - played the most, because I have on the short list and wanted to see if I liked it enough. One of the wire ramps was loose. Otherwise. I enjoyed playing on it.
WOF - the middle contestant was missing
MB - did not play, but playfield looked dim. Others were playing it
CFTBL- same as MB
TSPP- back box lights were out, didn't even approach it. No one else played it.

Calling mystery tech!!!

After spending drive time, not hearing sounds, paying $5 a beer, no where to sit, filthy bathrooms, and spending quarters to play.....I would rather have one game at home that I could play as much as I wanted, that was kept in top notch playing condition,than to go on location. I also have two kids aged 9 and 4, so that also makes it tough to hit the bars to play pinball.

Best location to play: pinball and arcade expos!!!!! That's my vote for location play and endorsement of home collecting. It's all in how one views it. I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer here, just what someone prefers. Anywhere pinball is being played is the correct answer for all!!!,

Remember the song "video killed the radio star"?

Now it's "smart phones killed the vending routers". Ask bar owners what their customers do while sitting around, or just look around anywhere. People with their heads down at a glowing hand! Haha!

I love this thread and I'll add my two cents as well. I think there are two big reasons why public pinball is so difficult to get running. The first reason is that our relationship with bars has changed over the years. In the 70s and 80s when I was a kid, my dad would go to a bar several days a week to hang out with his friends. Drinks were affordable and there was usually something to do like pinball or pool. I often got dragged along and handed several dollars in quarters to play pinball. This was a great time, because there was nothing to do at home but watch nothing on three channels.

People just don't go to bars like that anymore. Drinks are too expensive and drunk driving laws are enforced with zeal. Now the casual drinker stays home and drinks alone with his TV, tablet, computer, and/or Pins.

I think the second reason pins on location are so difficult is that the margin is too small. My grandfather was one of the owners and operators of Shank Brothers Amusements in Kalamazoo. He did make a good deal of money on pinball, but not the killing people seem to remember. The biggest earner in a bar was usually the cigarette machine. He would place a pin and/or pool table to entertain patrons and that often earned him a spot for a cigarette machine.

Anytime a technician stopped at a location he was visiting several points of income at the same time. Now, if you place pins that's all you have. I have heard that the crane machines out earn most video or pins.

All that said, I would love to see some local pinball here in Richmond. Of course, I wouldn't get to go hang out several days a week and drink beer. It just isn't the 70s anymore

I look at places like dave and busters and other big places.... these are the places that people think of when they think "arcade". they are big commercial establishments that are well known. i went there once because my wife's friend was having her birthday party there. i think i spent less then $10 on games.... i was not impressed. they had some old arcade video games and they are OK but they age terribly. what i mean by that is that the graphics are so dated compared to what i have at home that i really have little desire to play them. granted some games like PAC MAN are simple enough where the graphics dont need to be good to be fun, i call them timeless classics but some games just look terrible in 2014. the rest of the games they have at these places are rubbish.... coin redemption garbage. i am a 33 male and i do not give a rats @#$ about "winning" some stuffed plush piece of crap that i could buy for less then $5 at dollar general, not that i would buy something like that anyways, ok maybe i would buy something like that for my wife but it wouldnt come of a redemption machine anyways. there is another place locally that is the same crap. it used to be JNC years ago and they had some pins, now its called pirates plank. i walked in hoping to see a few pins, i walked right out nothing be redemption machines. these stupid things are what's not helping location games.

there is one place nearby that has location games, they have 13 pinball machines. its pocketeer billards, i have never gone there to play pool but i have gone there to play pinball on a fairly regular basis although its 40+ minutes away. there are as many people in there playing pinball as there are playing pool and sometimes i have seen more people playing pinball then pool. its a great place and they have done a good job. im not sure if they are making a profit but i dont think they are loosing either. the key to this is they already owned the facility and just added pinball to the floor. it works because they did not build the place JUST for pinball. they have some great games and its actually fun going there.

however you have to ask yourself if any locations would host half the games i own,
firepower.... great game but in another 5 years it will be 40 years old. would a location host a 40 year old game?? i dont know
jokerz? i rather doubt a location would host jokerz although i enjoy it.
bride of pinbot... maybe this one could still be found on location
high speed? again maybe but its getting to be an old game

on the other hand pocketeer has a 1984 space shuttle on location, and from my understanding its one of their most profitable. why?? simply because it was bought on cash, no loans on it like wizard of oz that they have on the same floor. it took little to buy and it's a great theme so it still gets played.

i also think that a game like firepower still is fun despite it's age. it makes a great pin for a home collection because not many if any will be location games ever again, it also seems like pinball ages gracefully a 35 year old pin is allot more fun then a 35 year old arcade video game.

we need large well known places to put pins on location.... the problem is they want nothing to do with it. there a guy locally that does pinball machine repairs he works at the local dave and busters. he tried to encourage them to put a couple of pins out. they told him absolutely NOT

One of the joys of location pinball that can't be found in home:

It's a lot more satisfying to put up your initials where others will see them as opposed to a machine noone else ever plays that only has your initials on it.

I have to respectfully disagree with your first point. The insane rise of barcades popping up everywhere is evident of that. I'm sure there are some that have been unsuccessful, but the ones that have a management staff that know what they are doing have flourished imo.

You know what's awesome?
Dinner, time with the wife and kids and then walking downstairs to the basement to play your own games.
Dogfish 90s in the fridge, bourbons on the bar and you are in sweats. When you are hammered and done at 1am you just walk upstairs and go to bed.
That's what is different from when we were kids with no cellphones hanging in bars to catch our friends or meet someone.
And that's why we are home collectors.

i like this guy...

Yep, putting up initials is fun.

At least with all of the home based pinball clubs and leagues, one can still have a chance at planting seeds on other games.

And at tourneys, there is always a chance to do so as well. Need a score verified...just look at the display

90 minute IPA might be the best beer ever created. Get the 120 if you really want to put some hair on your chest.

Yeah. The worst part of location pinball as a kid was usually the location to be honest. I have always thought that a boutique (there's that awful word again...) pinball place, that featured very well maintained and respected games in a nice setting, and centered around them and them alone could survive as a niche place. I have some ideas on making this new and one of a kind, but really don't think I would ever get ballsy enough to try it. Too much risk, and doing pinball as a business all day I think would kill the fun of it at home for me.

As it is, I like it BECAUSE it's not location. I don't have to leave, I can spend 5 min or 2 hours. I'm never going to be a competitive player, travel around to play, I just want something to do at home when I'm bored. It's my escape, my pinball room. Has a bar, has pinball, has a central place to sit where I can bask in the glow of them all and sip scotch.

In fact, I just talked myself into hitting up my location right now, you're all invited any time you are near me (London, Ontario) regardless of your location beliefs =)

Gameroom small.jpg

Totally. For me pinball is all about public frustration, quarters, trash talking and beer. We keep a few pins in the back of my buddies coffee shop/bar and the competition is fierce. You better believe when a high score gets set there are text threads being sent and gloating around the chalkboard where you just erased the previous chumps score and slapped your initials over his.

I have nothing against people who want to keep a few games at home, and after operating some on site I totally understand why most people wouldn't want to. However, you do lose that one component when you take it residential. I just don't get the same rush standing in a garage or basement trying to top my previous high score as I do being surrounded by the competition and refusing to leave until I burn their record score to the ground and jump up and down on it's ashes.

Long live location pinball, but it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to home use.

Was there no contact info on the games or a way to submit a ticket for game issues? If not, then to me that operator does not care much about pinball. I would suggest going to a different spot and support other games if you are going to play on location.

I like both location pinball and home pinball, but in both cases they need to be playing well to be enjoyed.

When people have a passion it can be done right two passionate pinball people from New England.

http://www.pinballwizardarcade.com

http://lanesgames.com/gameroom.html

The essence of what you say is good, but you could say the same about billiards, darts, watching movies, swimming, drinking alcohol, public transportation. They are all better in a social environment, but it doesn't mean people should stop creating a game room with a TV, pool table, wet bar, dart board, and a swimming pool in the back yard and a couple vehicles in the driveway.

It's a chicken and egg thing... if there are no on location pins, there's no where to go but get them for home and invite friends over. No arcades, have to organize an annual show. Want interest to be persistent? Create a weekly or monthly league on location somewhere. Then, and only then will people have a way to play pinball outside of their homes.

Also I beg to differ about where people learned to play... in recent years I know many top players that did in fact learn at home and/or local in-home leagues out of necessity. In other words don't dismiss the critical value of in-home enthusiasts as the key catalyst to getting it back out into the public, and who are still responsible for the bulk of game sales (in the U.S. anyway...)

One word: Bar-Cade.

I'm lucky enough to live in Denver where the 1up has 2 incredible locations. I go there to play the newest and most awesomest playing pinball games. I ask the ops there about which games make the most money and quite often, they are not the games I choose to play. Stern IJ and WOZ tAF make money on location and even though games like Star Trek, AC/DC premium and TWD are in the same lineup. When I talk to the people who manage the vidja games as well as the rest of the bar, the names Frogger, Q-Bert and Centipede come up quite a bit. But the games that make the most money on location are... Skee-Ball lanes. The reason why? Half the population that walks in the door wants to play them. Yes... Bar-Cades are all about the ladies. They have quarters too!

Barcades, to a lesser extent, this has happened in Ft. Collins (Pinball Jones most recently) and even in the mountains at Idaho Springs with Flipper McGill's.

Other locations are bars that happen to have pinball in them (Cuckoo's Nest and The 3 Kings). And then you have the truly rare bird of Lyons Classic Pinball. Lyons has made an interesting move in doing well with private parties. I see them at least 2-3 times a month at that spot and people seem to dig the idea that they can have an arcade of their own to share with friends (or havve a birthday jammy) for at least a few hours.

Do I play games on location, yes. Do I have an awesome collection, yes. I have parties and do what I can to share my games with the community as well. Is pinball originally a location game, yes. I am grateful for locations and operators who started this whole pinball business that led to the culture that we now all love and enjoy.

Feel free to come on over sometime and play some pinball. Or we can meet at somewhere like the 1up and enjoy that environment as well. It's all good. The moral of the story for me is... Doesn't matter where, with whom, or how crispy the games play, or whatever details you choose to focus on...

Just keep playing pinball.

Does this have to be a fight? Everyone gets to have their own pinball experience in life; they're bound to vary. I'm a location guy (so to speak) and that's what keeps me motivated: I love when people are jamming my games and having a good time. To me, location ball is where the fun is...I dig the feeling of having a beer and jawing against my buddies, talking some smack, not spending much dough. I like the seedy feel of an old arcade, and I don't mind a beat up route title. I have as much, if not more, fun playing a ratty Meteor in the back of a gas station alone as I do playing a lineup of HEP B/Ws covered in toys at some dude's "man cave". But none of this makes me a "better pinhead" than, say, my local pinball brother (and esteemed home collector slash LED fanatic) RareHero...we're just very different.

Home collectors, stop dogging on the location folks! Location folks, stop dogging on the home collectors! Our motivations are different but we are all pinball fans. If location ball in your area sucks, do something constructive to remedy that; don't just make the blanket statement that location pinball everywhere is bad...that hurts us all.

And to you "LOCATION PINBALL IS DEAD" sods: here's my Doozie that made over $1700 since October: image.jpg

That's like saying stamp collecting isn't a hobby because stamps go on envelopes for postage... it's my money and I will adopt whatever "hobby" I choose to thanks

FYI I stopped reading right about here - when you open a thread with one of the silliest statements I've had the fortune of reading, I assume the rest is only worse.

/threadfail

I didnt even look. It was dark. I thought about telling the bartender, then figured, what's the point. Having 7 pinballs in a locations should be enough of an investment to be a priority anyways. Maybe I just caught these games before the next service call....anyways, it was nice to see games in the wild. Gotta give a guy props for putting a MB on location, when he could otherwise get big bucks just by selling it.

man i WISH 120 was regularly available...

here's my place.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dans-Party-Barn/719278874795521

Speaking of locations: thumbs up to Free Gold Watch in San Francisco. They're a print shop. With pinball machines. A lot of them. A lot of good_ games. Not entirely modern. All in great shape. Not just good flippers, but also good cosmetically. Whoever maintains their stuff does a good job, at least from this player's perspective.

What works in my mind: There is a whiteboard - and marker - where people can write down problems. You can see what problems exist on a game, and decide to play or not. You can write down anything you notice, for others to note - including the operators. The system works.

Here's the thing - I don't know one collector who dogs on locations - these are after all coin-operated machines and we expect there to be pins on location...but there are a few people who have games on route who have massive animosity toward the collectors and see us as the enemy, source of their ills, or bad for the hobby. That's when collectors get defensive - when you're coming up to me and telling me what I do in my private life is somehow destroying your business or the hobby. That's bullshit, and that's what Newsom's rant was about - a sense of entitlement & ownership of "the hobby"...an attempt to shame those of us who have games in our homes. F that.

I wish all operators were as cool as Jim Belsito - he routes games, he runs tournaments, AND he has a massive home collection that he shares with his friends. I've never heard him say a bad thing about anyone who enjoys pinball in any way that makes them happy.

Yup, Jim is rad. He can play a little bit of pinball himself too.

Part of the reason I got into collecting pinball machines is because there are none on locations near me........and there never will be.

Not to mention that if I ever wanted to become an operator (which I don't) pinball machines would certainly NOT be my first choice. Don't get me wrong, I love pinball but if was going to be an operator I'd be doing it for the money.....and there are MUCH better options out there to make coin than pinball machines.

Belsito had the only decent location pins I could find in SoCal for years; he is truly a top notch operator and a great person. I drive alllllllll the way to Riverside on a day off to fling money into his Lady Luck. Maybe a thread honoring good operators would be more welcome than a thread disparaging home collectors.

My favorite locations are as follows: 1) Logan Arcade in Chicago 2) C Bar in Portland and 3) Free Gold Watch. All run by pinball die hards, all cool business models, all of them suit their surrounding communities very well, and all seem successful. Oh! And I forgot Blairally. I freaking love Blairally.

The locations I'd like to see the most but haven't are 1) Pinball Wizard up in NH 2) Pinballz in Austin 3) Clay's new spot in Michigan. What are some other great locations I don't know about? Who are the other Top Ops in the biz?

Newsom it's not going to be a location game much longer if I the home collector stop buying. You should be kissing the collectors collective asses because they saved your so important on location games. For every mod, topper or powder coat we have done has opened up a new avenue for pin companies to make dollars which trickles down to more games being made.

Personally I like my games a bit more cherry than a normal beat up games I see locally.

I have one pin on location (WMS Jubilee) which does a few bucks a week. The game gets checked at least once a week and gets cleaned once a month. So far it's only needed a new plunger rod sleeve, plunger rod tip, and a light bulb for the several months in service.

Will try to put a couple more out on location in 2015.

Have a few games in house and still go to many locations an hour away or more just to play pinball.

Pinball is a location game, so long as that location is MY house!

Yeah, that's it. The operators and location players that kept this hobby alive for the first 70 years of it's existence just got lucky. The collectors are the only thing keeping location pinball alive today.

And rare thinks the operators feel entitled.

Barcades are great, and I concur that I hear about them from as many women as men... the only problem is that they are generally unavailable to minors, and most of us are only in the hobby because we played the games as kids.

The positive thing about Colorado is there are many pinball locations outside of the bars, which is nice for kids, but even nicer if you like to play games without loud music, drunks, and smoke. That's why a lot of people have games in their home.

that's what i like best about "my location"... all 3 of these are not only allowed, but encouraged...

It's going in Gary's line-up at City Heroes on George St.

Yeah pretty hard to find. I have only seen it for sale by individual 12 oz bottles for like 15 bucks a piece haha

yup. you either get it the day it hits the shelves, or you don't get it at all... a few places around here get a quarter keg whenever it comes out, and they'll announce when they are tapping it... it goes VERY quickly...

Sweet setup!

Putting your initials on a friend's machine is just as awesome. I've walked into people's houses and put up a GC score. I own games where I can't even get on the board (and that is irritating). I think it is more fun because it is much longer term action. If I ever get back the GC on my BSD, people are going to know!

Ok, sounds great. I'll give up my game room that I worked long and hard for, so you and others like you can milk me for cash on poorly maintained routed games(Which even those are hard to find). Why don't you change the title to this thread to be more accurate, like, I'm pissed I can't make a living with pins on location anymore? Collectors ain't killing pinball, we're saving it. Next thing you know we'll have bar owners on here bitching about the fact that some of us have beer on tap in our game rooms. Tapping beer is a location thing, dummies.

Yep, this is my situation also. It doesn't seem like the OP has left his back yard...

I'd love to play on location, it's just not an option here.

How about you come to my town and YOU can drop coin into the Flintstones with one flipper, or the WCS with the ramp that had huge pieces missing so it wasn't possible to lock a ball, not even worth mentioning all the other problems those games had for months not days.

Yea I droped coin into them, but never again. How about you start a Opps support group, reach out to other Opps and you guys get your shit together.