I think this could be a great idea for a new pinball title to differentiate itself from the others. Multiple rulesets in one machine. So maybe there's a simple rule set with just a couple of challenges that would work for beginner players, or at locations where there aren't hard core pinball players. Then one or two advanced rule sets to add challenge and fun for advanced players.

This would be great for tournaments - if a pin had multiple rule sets and one of them was very simple and very scoring balanced, that would make the pin a good choice for tournaments (in contrast to the titles that get pulled out of tournament pools for having unbalanced scoring).

This would be great for home use - switch up the rule sets for kids, n00bs vs experienced players.

This could even be great for locations - start with one rule set, and as time goes on and players have gotten tired of the machine, switch to another rule set and extend the life of the title at that location for a while.

Thoughts?

#2 5 years ago

---

ForceFlow

Pinside Moderator

9y 238K 31,358 268 14

Some games have it.

Some gottlieb system 80B games had difficulty settings that could be changed using the dip switches on the MPU.

Several dmd games have a "tournament mode" that eliminates some of the random awards.

But yes, I've had similar thoughts several times about having a menu displayed at game start where a player could select "beginner", "intermediate", or "advanced", especially on some of these newer and deeper games.

#3 5 years ago

MIK

Cobra

Inactive member

Vaughan, ON

11y 46,800 836 2

I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

#4 5 years ago

BBR

orangegsx

Pinside member

12y 80,550 832 8 7

I had a motordome and I would select hard every time. Pointless IMO

#5 5 years ago

JIM

cougtv

Pinside member

10y 48,800 671 2

Who done it has multiple rule sets I think.

#6 5 years ago

JRC

TwoHeartedMale

Inactive member

Ann Arbor, MI

5y 56,550 587 7

Quoted from Cobra:
I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

your so right!!!!! if Toy Story is done right It chould change the future of pinball!

#7 5 years ago

SMK

TheLaw

Pinside+ Addict

Ann Arbor, MI

12y 162K 48,059 19 30 1

Quoted from cougtv:
Who done it has multiple rule sets I think.

It has a times mode and regualr mode.

Pool sharks has 2 ways to plays but obviously that's a more simple set of rules.

The problem is always whom's goign to make all these rules? It would probably just end up being an easier way to play the game...like less of each task to complete.

#8 5 years ago

JAW

jawjaw

Pinside member

Humble, TX

9y 85,550 5,534 5

I think it would be cool to have alternative game modes. Maybe a tutorial mode to help explain rules more as you play. That said, the average person has a hard time with any rules and is really just trying to keep ball from draining. Also, pinball is hard and it seems to take years to get just one ruleset mostly done.

#9 5 years ago

EVN

EvanDickson

Pinside member

Charlottetown, PE

10y 91,550 2,679 5 49

I should clarify that a little I guess. I know since system 11 we've had options for "extra easy" through "extra hard". But the differences are linear things like increasing the # of loops to score extra ball, prelighting E-L-V of "ELVIRA", resetting lights between balls, etc. I don't mean different rule sets in this way. I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Rule set #1 has 3 challenges. One of them is to trigger every switch at least once. One is to make all the loops at least once. One is to virtually lock a ball in a scoop to start a multiball. Welcome to the final mode.

Rule set #2 has 5 challenges. One is to trigger every switch in a set (ie a target bank, a cluster of rollovers, etc), each in a particular order. If done out of order, the switches in that set reset. One is to make all the loops in a certain order, then make them in the opposite order. One is to virtually lock 3 balls in a scoop to start multiball, but a particular task must be accomplished to enable each lock. One is to hit a random sequence of targets throughout the machine. One is to at least start a video mode. Now welcome to final mode.

Rule set #3 has like 10 challenges of greatly increased skill requirement. Eg trigger every switch in the machine, in a randomly chosen sequence, with a short timer on each switch - run out of time on one switch, the whole challenge resets. One is to not just start, but to complete video mode with some threshold completion percentage. etc.

#10 5 years ago

EVN

EvanDickson

Pinside member

Charlottetown, PE

10y 91,550 2,679 5 49

Quoted from jawjaw:
I think it would be cool to have alternative game modes. Maybe a tutorial mode to help explain rules more as you play. That said, the average person has a hard time with any rules and is really just trying to keep ball from draining. Also, pinball is hard and it seems to take years to get just one ruleset mostly done.

That's exactly what I'm digging at, the average person has a hard time with any rules. But not every person. Some machines are great in the wild because Joe Schmoe can just walk up and play, but the same machine will be a stinker at home, because sophisticated Joe Collector needs more of a challenge. And vice versa - some titles that sophisticated Joe will love will not get love in a barcade, because Joe Schmoe doesn't know what the eff is going on. Being able to toggle between simple and sophisticated rules for different players, possibly multiple rule sets to allow mixing it up for tournaments, may be a key to selling more games.

#11 5 years ago

SKB

Eskaybee

Pinside member

12y 155K 12,960 40

I’m really enjoying GOT, SW, and JJPOTC type rulesets which give tons of variety for the way it can be played.

#12 5 years ago

MAT

branlon8

Pinside member

Köln

9y 54,800 954 15

We’ve accepted that the ruleset is as integral a part of a game as is the playfield layout. But at the end of the day every pinball game has around 11 targets from left to right and the rules simply establish in which order and how often and how quickly you have to hit them. That’s a bit of a simplification, but I’m pretty sure the rules from any one game could be tranferred to alot of other games.

Me personally, I think I would have fun altering program code or programming new rules in existing games (assuming I can save all results under different files and always reset to the original rules). I realize with systems like P-ROC this is more possible today than ever, but still seems like it entails more hardware modification than I’m ready to do.

I’m not sure that there is much incentive at the pinball manufacturer to enable this or multiple rulesets, though.

#13 5 years ago

???

rubberducks

Inactive member

8y 76,150 3,031 1

Deeproot have been hinting at something ....

If they or someone else put out an API to the public, I can see that really helping games take off. There are some pretty creative people in the hobby, and a bunch of coders (or people capable of writing basic scripts).

#14 5 years ago

ERW

chuckwurt

Pincinnati

10y 193K 31,346 16 13

Quoted from Cobra:
I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

Or having the ruleset change with each movie you play.

#15 5 years ago

DIA

mrossman5

Pinside+ Frequent

Warren, PA

6y 197K 3,179 7 253

I’m pretty sure some SEGA’s have an option at the beginning of the game for a novice game or a normal game, although I am not sure really how different they are.

#16 5 years ago

JON

J85M

Hot Mods

Warrington

12y 147K 10,467 32

Quoted from mrossman5:
I’m pretty sure some SEGA’s have an option at the beginning of the game for a novice game or a normal game, although I am not sure really how different they are.

You are correct a number of SEGA titles give you that option before you plunge on ball 1, my Goldeneye does.

#17 5 years ago

DIA

mrossman5

Pinside+ Frequent

Warren, PA

6y 197K 3,179 7 253

Quoted from J85M:
You are correct a number of SEGA titles give you that option before you plunge on ball 1, my Goldeneye does.

What does the “novice” option even change? All it said when I played Goldeneye and ID4 was “guaranteed playing time”.

#18 5 years ago

ERW

chuckwurt

Pincinnati

10y 193K 31,346 16 13

Quoted from mrossman5:
What does the “novice” option even change? All it said when I played Goldeneye and ID4 was “guaranteed playing time”.

Unlimited ball save until a timer runs up.

#19 5 years ago

JIG

jwilson

Pinball Art Prints

Toronto, ON

9y 106K 5,052 6 7

Most people need to have it explained to them how player turns work. In fact, you can't even get players to look at the screen.

So selecting different rules is probably only for advanced players.

#20 5 years ago

EVN

EvanDickson

Pinside member

Charlottetown, PE

10y 91,550 2,679 5 49

Quoted from jwilson:
Most people need to have it explained to them how player turns work. In fact, you can't even get players to look at the screen.
So selecting different rules is probably only for advanced players.

I wouldn't see it as "put in your money, choose a rule set, press start." I see it as the venue or home owner opens the coin door, navigates into settings, updates the setting, then closes the coin door.

#21 5 years ago

GSS

gstellenberg

Multimorphic

Round Rock, TX

12y 119K 1,589 24 10

OP
Quoted from EvanDickson:
I wouldn't see it as "put in your money, choose a rule set, press start." I see it as the venue or home owner opens the coin door, navigates into settings, updates the setting, then closes the coin door.

That's how it works on the P3, which has exactly what's being discussed here: many different game rules for the same hardware (it also has swappable hardware kits which provides even more variety). With the Lexy Lightspeed playfield module installed, you can run LL-EE, LL-SAS, ROCs, and Barnyard. With the Cannon Lagoon playfield installed, you can run CL, ROCs, Barnyard, and the forthcoming Grand Slam Rally, Wizard, and HeadsUp games.

Quoted from rubberducks:
If they or someone else put out an API to the public, I can see that really helping games take off. There are some pretty creative people in the hobby, and a bunch of coders (or people capable of writing basic scripts).

There are a bunch of people currently writing games for the P3 using our development kit. It's a similar model to Apple and Android, where developers create game content and can make it available through our web store. Then they earn the profit. People can develop new software for existing game kits, or they can even make their own game kits (upper playfield modules, etc), as we provide all of the mechanical and electrical interface specs.

Then there are of course additional game rules for existing machines that run through the P-ROC, like BoP2, CCC, JD, IJ, etc.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

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