Pinball innovation idea, multiple rulesets.

(Topic ID: 222031)

Pinball innovation idea, multiple rulesets.


By EvanDickson

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by gstellenberg
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Could multiple rule sets in one game make that game more appealing?”

    • Yes. 6 votes
      32%
    • No. 6 votes
      32%
    • Your mother has multiple rule sets. 7 votes
      37%

    (Multiple choice - 19 votes by 18 Pinsiders)

    #1 4 months ago

    I think this could be a great idea for a new pinball title to differentiate itself from the others. Multiple rulesets in one machine. So maybe there's a simple rule set with just a couple of challenges that would work for beginner players, or at locations where there aren't hard core pinball players. Then one or two advanced rule sets to add challenge and fun for advanced players.

    This would be great for tournaments - if a pin had multiple rule sets and one of them was very simple and very scoring balanced, that would make the pin a good choice for tournaments (in contrast to the titles that get pulled out of tournament pools for having unbalanced scoring).

    This would be great for home use - switch up the rule sets for kids, n00bs vs experienced players.

    This could even be great for locations - start with one rule set, and as time goes on and players have gotten tired of the machine, switch to another rule set and extend the life of the title at that location for a while.

    Thoughts?

    #2 4 months ago

    Some games have it.

    Some gottlieb system 80B games had difficulty settings that could be changed using the dip switches on the MPU.

    Several dmd games have a "tournament mode" that eliminates some of the random awards.

    But yes, I've had similar thoughts several times about having a menu displayed at game start where a player could select "beginner", "intermediate", or "advanced", especially on some of these newer and deeper games.

    #3 4 months ago

    I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

    #4 4 months ago

    I had a motordome and I would select hard every time. Pointless IMO

    #5 4 months ago

    Who done it has multiple rule sets I think.

    #6 4 months ago
    Quoted from Cobra:

    I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

    your so right!!!!! if Toy Story is done right It chould change the future of pinball!

    #7 4 months ago
    Quoted from cougtv:

    Who done it has multiple rule sets I think.

    It has a times mode and regualr mode.

    Pool sharks has 2 ways to plays but obviously that's a more simple set of rules.

    The problem is always whom's goign to make all these rules? It would probably just end up being an easier way to play the game...like less of each task to complete.

    #8 4 months ago

    I think it would be cool to have alternative game modes. Maybe a tutorial mode to help explain rules more as you play. That said, the average person has a hard time with any rules and is really just trying to keep ball from draining. Also, pinball is hard and it seems to take years to get just one ruleset mostly done.

    #9 4 months ago

    I should clarify that a little I guess. I know since system 11 we've had options for "extra easy" through "extra hard". But the differences are linear things like increasing the # of loops to score extra ball, prelighting E-L-V of "ELVIRA", resetting lights between balls, etc. I don't mean different rule sets in this way. I'm thinking more along the lines of:

    Rule set #1 has 3 challenges. One of them is to trigger every switch at least once. One is to make all the loops at least once. One is to virtually lock a ball in a scoop to start a multiball. Welcome to the final mode.

    Rule set #2 has 5 challenges. One is to trigger every switch in a set (ie a target bank, a cluster of rollovers, etc), each in a particular order. If done out of order, the switches in that set reset. One is to make all the loops in a certain order, then make them in the opposite order. One is to virtually lock 3 balls in a scoop to start multiball, but a particular task must be accomplished to enable each lock. One is to hit a random sequence of targets throughout the machine. One is to at least start a video mode. Now welcome to final mode.

    Rule set #3 has like 10 challenges of greatly increased skill requirement. Eg trigger every switch in the machine, in a randomly chosen sequence, with a short timer on each switch - run out of time on one switch, the whole challenge resets. One is to not just start, but to complete video mode with some threshold completion percentage. etc.

    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from jawjaw:

    I think it would be cool to have alternative game modes. Maybe a tutorial mode to help explain rules more as you play. That said, the average person has a hard time with any rules and is really just trying to keep ball from draining. Also, pinball is hard and it seems to take years to get just one ruleset mostly done.

    That's exactly what I'm digging at, the average person has a hard time with any rules. But not every person. Some machines are great in the wild because Joe Schmoe can just walk up and play, but the same machine will be a stinker at home, because sophisticated Joe Collector needs more of a challenge. And vice versa - some titles that sophisticated Joe will love will not get love in a barcade, because Joe Schmoe doesn't know what the eff is going on. Being able to toggle between simple and sophisticated rules for different players, possibly multiple rule sets to allow mixing it up for tournaments, may be a key to selling more games.

    #11 4 months ago

    I’m really enjoying GOT, SW, and JJPOTC type rulesets which give tons of variety for the way it can be played.

    #12 4 months ago

    We’ve accepted that the ruleset is as integral a part of a game as is the playfield layout. But at the end of the day every pinball game has around 11 targets from left to right and the rules simply establish in which order and how often and how quickly you have to hit them. That’s a bit of a simplification, but I’m pretty sure the rules from any one game could be tranferred to alot of other games.

    Me personally, I think I would have fun altering program code or programming new rules in existing games (assuming I can save all results under different files and always reset to the original rules). I realize with systems like P-ROC this is more possible today than ever, but still seems like it entails more hardware modification than I’m ready to do.

    I’m not sure that there is much incentive at the pinball manufacturer to enable this or multiple rulesets, though.

    #13 4 months ago

    Deeproot have been hinting at something ....

    If they or someone else put out an API to the public, I can see that really helping games take off. There are some pretty creative people in the hobby, and a bunch of coders (or people capable of writing basic scripts).

    #14 4 months ago
    Quoted from Cobra:

    I think this would be great for Toy Story. JPP games are pretty deep and being able to switch to a simple rule set for my kids would be great.

    Or having the ruleset change with each movie you play.

    #15 4 months ago

    I’m pretty sure some SEGA’s have an option at the beginning of the game for a novice game or a normal game, although I am not sure really how different they are.

    #16 4 months ago
    Quoted from mrossman5:

    I’m pretty sure some SEGA’s have an option at the beginning of the game for a novice game or a normal game, although I am not sure really how different they are.

    You are correct a number of SEGA titles give you that option before you plunge on ball 1, my Goldeneye does.

    #17 4 months ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    You are correct a number of SEGA titles give you that option before you plunge on ball 1, my Goldeneye does.

    What does the “novice” option even change? All it said when I played Goldeneye and ID4 was “guaranteed playing time”.

    #18 4 months ago
    Quoted from mrossman5:

    What does the “novice” option even change? All it said when I played Goldeneye and ID4 was “guaranteed playing time”.

    Unlimited ball save until a timer runs up.

    #19 4 months ago

    Most people need to have it explained to them how player turns work. In fact, you can't even get players to look at the screen.

    So selecting different rules is probably only for advanced players.

    #20 4 months ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Most people need to have it explained to them how player turns work. In fact, you can't even get players to look at the screen.
    So selecting different rules is probably only for advanced players.

    I wouldn't see it as "put in your money, choose a rule set, press start." I see it as the venue or home owner opens the coin door, navigates into settings, updates the setting, then closes the coin door.

    #21 4 months ago
    Quoted from EvanDickson:

    I wouldn't see it as "put in your money, choose a rule set, press start." I see it as the venue or home owner opens the coin door, navigates into settings, updates the setting, then closes the coin door.

    That's how it works on the P3, which has exactly what's being discussed here: many different game rules for the same hardware (it also has swappable hardware kits which provides even more variety). With the Lexy Lightspeed playfield module installed, you can run LL-EE, LL-SAS, ROCs, and Barnyard. With the Cannon Lagoon playfield installed, you can run CL, ROCs, Barnyard, and the forthcoming Grand Slam Rally, Wizard, and HeadsUp games.

    Quoted from rubberducks:

    If they or someone else put out an API to the public, I can see that really helping games take off. There are some pretty creative people in the hobby, and a bunch of coders (or people capable of writing basic scripts).

    There are a bunch of people currently writing games for the P3 using our development kit. It's a similar model to Apple and Android, where developers create game content and can make it available through our web store. Then they earn the profit. People can develop new software for existing game kits, or they can even make their own game kits (upper playfield modules, etc), as we provide all of the mechanical and electrical interface specs.

    Then there are of course additional game rules for existing machines that run through the P-ROC, like BoP2, CCC, JD, IJ, etc.

    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 229.99
    € 222.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Buthamburg
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 159.95
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Pinball Pro
    $ 20.00
    Lighting - Other
    Professor Pinball
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 15.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    £ 39.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballToys
    $ 16.95
    Playfield - Protection
    ULEKstore
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
    From: $ 5,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Music City Pinball
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    From: $ 200.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    liorillusion
    $ 43.00
    Lighting - Led
    Pin Mods
    $ 449.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 25.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    From: $ 19.50
    Apparel - Unisex
    ArcadeMade
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 16.95
    $ 8,999.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside