They're deals out there but not many from outside your network.

A lot of people dont use forums to research pricing before trying to sell something. They simply look at CL or Ebay and base the price on that. "O this guy is selling a beat up 1950 blah blah for 900 bucks, that means my decent condition 1965 is worth at least 3k". It just takes one person to start a false price trend.

It's so bad I've resorted to making my own.

It takes all kinds.

And they all aren't price gougers trying to make bucks and ruin anything. Their costs have gone up for games and parts too. And if they can help fund their hobby, they do what they can.

You take the good with the bad when a hobby gets popular. Prices go up. But way more stuff to support it like new games and parts become available too.

I've been helping people online for 22 years to make their pinball experience a little bit better. During these years I've seen the down turn of the industry, Williams closing. What the F**k are we going to do for parts ? Stern gutting it out and managing some great games. And the growth of new people in the hobby and the availability of so much more both games and parts. More so than when Williams was open.

I hate to say it. And I am sorry about prices. But I kind of feel fortunate of where we are at. We have a thriving hobby.

LTG : )

Personally I’m fine with even higher prices if the design and sophistication increases on the games.

Today’s LCD games with RGB lighting are stunning and fun. But also require a ton of work to develop.

I’m happy to pay more to get more.

My 2c.

The prices are only ridiculous if you have been in this hobby long enough to see the days when these prices were way cheaper. When I got into the hobby 4 years ago prices had never been higher. They’ve only increased since then.

The more popular pinball continues to get, the more the older games will increase. Most people that dive in don’t want a new game so they look old. The demand keeps rising while the supply falls. Prices increase due to this.

I don’t let it bother me at all. Do I think it’s crazy that Big Guns costs 2k now? Sure. But just means that if I want one I’ll have to save and pony up. No big deal.

Get to know folks, and the sooner you do it the better. Ask around who they know that has an old beat up old pinball doing nothing but collecting dust. Then get your hands on it, cheap, haul it away. The more doors you knock on, the sooner you do it, the better. Have cash, don't be hesitant to walk from a deal or two, or three. There are loads of machines out there, many just begging to be found in dark silence. Once fondled by young and hold hands alike while being paid to entertain, your collection will grow and swell to the point where you too will flip games for three times what you paid for it last week. Its how much how fast, an old adage, which will determine your success.

I don’t know - I see two things happening in the hobby on the upper end and the lower end.

On the upper end, we have seen prices come DOWN on many titles - MM, MB, SMLE, TronLE, CC, BBB, AFM, Luci, etc. Most of these are all due to remakes, threat of remakes or vault editions.

On the lower end, prices are simply adjusting to demand (more people in the hobby) and the rising prices of the new titles. $6-$12k is a huge chunk of cash to buy a new game. This has caused many of the “B” and “C” titles to increase significantly in the recent years.

one aspect I see leading to price increase in older titles is REPLACEMENT COST.

I cant speak for each specific part/item, but its possible that just about everything that goes into building a pinball is up from the 80s/90s, especially LABOR. you simply can not build these older ss, an, dmd pins from scratch for less than where the market is heading. from a sum of the parts/labor standpoint, prices on 80s/90s games may still have some catching up to do.

I believe gary stern said he will not be building remakes of titles like star gazer, quicksilver, and seawitch because he doesn't believe people will pay 5K+ for them. upon reading comments like that, one can grasp what it would cost to replace/recreate those titles from scratch and why the market on those and similar era titles are getting bid up.

during the housing crisis, homes in foreclosure/short sales were being bought up, oftentimes by huge consortiums that realized they were getting homes for less than they could be built. those were 'deals', just like pinball finds of the past. as those below replacement cost homes were absorbed, it eventually brought the remaining inventory up to a market that was more in line with actual replacement cost.

This segment is the biggest downer for me.

90's A pins $6k-$7500 in 25 year-old unrestored condition. Pass! Bring on the new remake for even money.

90's B pins for $4k. No, thank you!

90's turds for $2500. Ouch!

90% of 90's pins are rip-off prices now.

Still many good 80's pins in the $1k-$2k range. Pricey, but I can stomach it.

So, for a while now I've only been buying new or 80's pins.

Ebay and shows on tv like pawrn stars, storage unit hunters.

I've been in the hobby for 18 years and I think a few things have happened.

1. There are no longer a bunch of games coming off route. It used to buy you could buy a route beaten TAF for a decent price. Those have all been scooped up and restored, so there's really not a lot of players condition games out there. And anything restored will have a hefty price tag on it.

2. The internet. Yeah the internet was around in 2003, but it wasn't a daily part of everyone's life and other than an obscure newsgroup (RGP) there wasn't much to go on in terms of pricing. Nowadays sellers can easily find pricing.

3. New pin price. As mentioned above, new pin prices are in the $5500 - $9000 range. Not that long ago, new Sterns were 4k which creating an artificial ceiling for all but the most sought after B/W pins. With the higher NIB prices, that ceiling has been raised.

There have always been flippers out there, so I wouldn't point to that as too big of a driver.

Bob

I know for me and a few of my circle of pinhead friends we are stocking up more on the older games for example the late 70's early 80's Bally and Stern games, with the mind set of get them now and worry about the newer titles down the road that will be more readily available.

I've only been in this about a year. For me, it's been tough figuring out a selling price. I'd love to just get back what I paid/put into it, but then I've got to find a replacement pin, which is now more money.

Plus, realistically, I consider the cost to replace what I own is already more than I've paid.

It's a vicious cycle.

On the other hand, I was lucky once on a machine, but had I tried to make a modest profit I'm pretty certain it would have ended up like those machines you mentioned being resold hours later. So I shot for market value instead.

I'm really thinking in network trading is the short answer here.

Something that occurs to me, to make money these companies need to sell machines. And there can only be a certain number of people who spend 8k on a pinball machine each year. Great games will always sell well, but a mediocre one could be a big bust. Prices on the secondary market for the newer machines, IMO could get into mid 3’s in another 5-7 years. Til then, I’ll be at the machines on location.

The length of time you have been in this hobby drastically changes your perspective on where the prices are at today. I got my first games 30 years ago, and the relative value of games has changed drastically in that time. In 1988 a NIB game would cost you around $3K in Cdn $, not sure what the exchange was then, but Im sure that put it in the $2.5K range, so that was pretty much the price ceiling. Old SS games were readily had for $500 or less, and EM's you could hardly give away. As the NIB prices increased, everything adjusted accordingly, but the depreciation on new games was much more severe than it is today, for example, I bought a very nice Indiana Jones traded in at a dealer for $1650cdn in 1995, thats a nearly 50% depreciation in less than 2 years!! This was the way it was until about the mid 2000's, when the Bally/Williams games, led by Medieval Madness really started to appreciate, and the values of almost all games followed suit. That trend has now just continued, and with the NIB prices getting out of hand, games that I remember with a value of $1200 when they were only a couple of years old, are selling for 3-4 times that over 20 years later!

So to me, this is insanity, I see posts on sites all the time of prices I consider ludicrous, and almost invariably someone chimes in with "Great Price" or "Won't last long" I'd like to add a Congo to my collection at some point, but having not bought one back in the day when they were in the low teens, makes it very difficult for me to pony up 3X or more that much today.

TFTC hasn't doubled. I think you're confusing retarded asking prices with actual value.

If your patient you can still get good /fair deals. I always do pretty well when i go to sell and they are still cheaper than pinside prices.

More can spend 5.5k and under which what a Stern costs

If you want a good deal, Pinside is NOT the place to find it anymore. It's all about who you know and how much business you've done with them.

FB groups are getting just as bad. I see many Pinsiders there asking the exact same price for their pins. I have heard many times that FB groups are the "new place to find good deals" - nope.

Who's more to blame? The people paying the prices, or the distributors/private sellers asking insane money for them?

What’s this about?

Two STLE for sale https://pinside.com/pinball/archive/star_trek_le/market

$12,999 and $15,500

To put things into perspective check out this contest for this 1979 Bally Kiss game. $1,800.00 in 1979 had the same buying power as $6,554.55 in 2018.

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That's pretty much how it works. Whatever the market demands. It is what is.

Affirmative.

I helped uncrate a few back then. That game was hot.

LTG : )

I don't know man, I could care less about "deals" anymore. We can bitch about prices all we want, but it's not like prices keep going up and dipping back down (except maybe in the case of remakes where MM's tanked when new ones were announced).
It's all relative, and so long as you're patient you can find "decently" priced pins out there. You have to ask yourself before you buy that pin "If I change my mind or get bored of it, can I sell it for what I paid give or take a few hundred dollars?". If the answer is yes, then I don't see a problem.

Last 4 pins I've sold this year:
Whirlwind - Sold for what I put into it ($2600)
High speed project - Sold for what I put into it ($600)
Black knight 2000 - Sold for $200 less than I paid for it ($2100)
Earthshaker project - Sold it for what I put into it ($1500 5 years ago)

Right now in my area there's a HUO Stern Star trek pro for sale for $4100 and it's been up there almost 2 weeks, only issue is bottom speaker buzzes so it's disconnected. That person probably paid $5200 NIB. Some would call that a deal.

I've moved a lot of games, and I've realized the wild west days of pinball are over now. I have what I have, and happy to have what I have.

I know what a Black Knight 2000 and Whirlwind play like, I have no reason to chase those games into the 3k range, they're nostalgic but shallow. Let the noobs have at them. I see a lot of overpriced pins, whatever. A fool and their money are soon parted.

Right now the best deal in pinball (imho) are EM's that need a little tlc for a few hundred and 2010 and up Sterns that are in the 4k-4500 range. Iron Maiden is a game changer as far as I'm concerned. Less is more. Quality, not quantity.

Like everything pin prices have climbed. I was really into buying, fixing and selling games from 2000-2010. In the time period I bought 25+ Bally SS project games and Gottlieb EM's and most were in the $300 to $600 range. They all would either have a nice BG or PF. NOS BG and PF's could be found for $175-$300 for Bally stuff. Left the hobby for 6 years, stopped searching, just played what I had (kid in college, house renovations etc). Now I amazed at what stuff is selling at. Looks like investing in gold CPR PF's for some titles brings a better return than most 401K's. I run a local CL ad looking for games with a picture of my Black Knight, Xenon and Space Invaders. Got an email asking if I'd sell the Space Invaders. PF worn in the center as most, not too horrible with a CPR plastic set. Nice BG and a clean 100% working example. I threw out a $1800 price tag on it not caring if it sold. Buyer was at my house with cash driving 200 miles within 48 hours! Turned that plus some cash into my Centaur I just bought. A pin is worth what someone will pay, no more or less. Do people way overspend? Absolutely. Are deals still out there? Yes. My Centaur with a CPR rescreened and cleared PF, new plastics, near mint BG and 8/10 cabinet was less than 3K.

Why is this crazy? TFTC is an exceptional game - much better than several BLY/WMS games that cost $1-$2k more. If anything, I think this title has been underpriced and is starting to equalize.

LW3 with a slightly better theme.

Don't like high prices? Don't pay them. Eventually things will settle down. All you need is just a little patience...

I am not sure what to say about prices as the majority of my collection has come from operators throwing away games or reimport containers in the early 2000's. I never thought I would see the days of Medieval Madness being 10k+ and then remakes (which I love) costing 80% of that extreme price.

I think if companies are thriving then we will see more games, better engineering due to competition and hopefully more manufacturing capabilities.

One great example of this is some of the recent moves by the largest manufacturer. I feel they have seen some of their market share go to some of the smaller guys and that partially is due to improvements spooky/danesi, jjp, american and multimorphic have made to evolve and innovate pinball as a whole.

As an operator and enthusiast in coin op this is great to see. If stern can pump out 4 new titles, a vault and a contract game that is great for the arcades, especially if the quality is what iron maiden is. I cant wait to see what Brian Eddy can do. Also if pinball is thriving then people that can not afford NIB units will be able to get them used at a much better discount due to all the choices out there.

I cant really speak to the prices as it is the cost to operate my business but I feel if that is where manufacturing has to be to thrive and innovate then I am ok with this. I really am excited to be able to share this incredible era of pinball and arcade gaming in general with my children. I'm 35, seen the top of the mountain in arcades, they were everywhere. I'm glad they get to enjoy this stuff as do your friends and families.

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For this too be true EVERYONE has to not pay them. These days plenty of people still seem to be willing to pay what people are asking so nothing will change any time soon.

Its definitely down to slim pickings.....but I usually see a couple dozen a year, and hopefully 1 or 2 that interest me, and I get Lucky timing.

But it reminds me of Shark tooth Hunting, I do on the Gulf Beach here.
20 years ago, the parking lot and road were unpaved, and held 12 cars, now their are facilities and parking for 100.
On a weekday, Id run into a couple people...today there are around 30-40.
Back then, the kids would fill cups with teeth found, big ones, in an hour, and we would toss any broken ones back.
Today, I might find a couple small ones, usually broken after a few hours.

More people looking, limited supply, and TV shows showing value. In a couple years, I fear
it will likely almost all be gone.....

However, by then old farts like me will be getting ready of stuff, and the prices will be what they are,
but there should be a second surge.

What I miss most, are the $1000 games, we all kept flipping in Florida, each person making them better.
No one cared heavily about the cabinet. BOP, ES, FS, JD, FT, BSD, all the games with Nice Cabinets, playfield and working
for around a grand, and we swapped out, with minimal inspection. Worked? Damage? Sold.

I grew up in this business. I remember a local operator telling me if I bought world cup soccer '94 I had to take all his system 11 games too because if I wanted WCS for $500 I had to clear out the junk. In that junk was banzai run, radical, pinbot, funhouse (which was wpc) etc. All the games didnt have a "screen" so he thought they were trash. I cant tell you how many deals went that way. Then once I was finished with college I was able to reach out further. Around 2005 I was really buying everything. I had my own money and it was a fun hunt. I got to see many places I never would have. Europe was ripe with games then and the collector community was not absorbing these broken units at a high value. I learned a lot about importing and the rest is history.

I understand that people are envious but I do believe that as operators we are bring pinball to a next generation of potential players, customers, competitors etc. I realize it may never be what it was when I was a kid but it's kind of special to me to carry the torch a bit to see what the next generation has come up with.

Very few on the net actually know me but I do try to support all makers and manufacturers. I have been burned by them, I have help them thrive. We usually purchase 4 units of each title if the company makes a reliable unit. Stern probably a few more than that per run because they are priced the best at the pro level.

Overall I cant help but be excited for some of the titles that are yet to come. They are themes from my childhood whether it was comic books or movies but I do wish someone would step up and make a game more relevant to current events or current relevance. Raw thrills is doing this with the new Halo game. I've talked to Josh a little about it and I am absolutely sold. I've ordered multiple units because I think this is an opportunity to bring the console gamer to the arcade again. Either way I am thankful for the industries efforts to push the hobby/careers and fun forward for the next generation of pinheads.

Living the dream. Good for you, man. Are any of your pins able to keep up with those Mariokart and Turtles games? I'm guessing no way.

If folks really want a price shocker...go watch some old Twilight Zone episodes when they are in a diner and the cheeseburger price on the wall is 15 cents, etc!

To paraphrase LTG, this is the result of a thriving economy and hobby. It's reasonable to assume that the average person cannot afford more than a few thousand in a lŭxury purchase. There are ways to enjoy pinball and not spend a fortune and there are many versions and phases of being a hobbyist or collector. Many communities are seeing pinball leagues form with minimal participation cost. Barcades are on the rise. Shows are popping up in new areas.

There is really nothing any one of us can do aout rising prices. We shop in our own budgets and fufill our own desires.

My own personal advice is a short list.
1. Don't buy a pinball machine (or any lŭxury item) on credit.
(I'm not talking to the point collectors that pay off their bill before the 30day cycle).
2. Assume you will not keep the machine long term and it will be sold for approximately a 10% loss on your investment.
3. Don't hesitate to walk away from a transaction if something isn't right.
4. Let someone else drive it off the lot and take the depreciation. (I break this rule often. It will likely increase your % in #2 above).