I will have 616.

Sure, but when you buy a car, you don't pay for it in full, then wait 2 years to get it AND even better, pay for your next car even before you took delivery on your first.

That is the best part about Jack - balls.

Jack knows the mind of the pinball player; they are gamblers. Do you take the 3x jackpot now, or risk it by waiting for the last ball when it is 5x? Of course you risk it for the 5x. Pinballers don't take the sure bets.

Maybe thats the big question/issue. Can you deposit and then pay in full for shipping as well as do a deposit payment schedule.

I'm in, my # should be just over 1000!

So, in essence, you are saying that if I think that the business practice is suspect and takes advantage of the consumer, that I should not say anything. That if I do not like it, then just keep quiet. "Move on" as it were.

On a forum where matters are discussed and debated.

Um, yeah, I think I may have to go ahead and disagree with you there.

I agree with the posters that have said that this model is great for JJP. And that he has balls for doing this. Its a great model for him. And its crappy for customers. They are assuming the risk. JJP is not.

My opinion is that Stern's model is much more fair and reasonable. And consumer friendly. And consistent with how most businesses are run. I have a vested interest, as all of us do, as I would like to continue to pay for pinball machines once they are complete and ready to ship. Sure video games can be preordered, but you only pay a nominal deposit. And they arrive a month or 2 later.

This is 1000s of dollars over 2 years. And most of the cost of the machine.

Telling me to in essence "shut up" is nonsensical to the arguments that I have raised. But that is the way most people debate anyway.

I don't think he is saying that.

I think it is more if you don't want to buy one, don't.

LTG : )

The only time I paid in full for a pre order was Duke Nukem Forever.

After 10 years Gamespot still honored my very faded receipt.

Although I saved a few bucks paying in advance, it was THE WORST game ever made.

I was an idiot for buying that game sight unseen to save a few bucks and I would be the biggest idiot in the world if I bought two pinball machines for $15,000 without playing them first.

Skitb has a long way to go before they have a game ready for delivery. If you think the WOZ wait was long Predator is going to be a lot longer. And of course, Wayne currently holds the record with having MM $2500 deposit for what....maybe 6 years now? And people still have their deposits with him.
I don't worry about Jack sitting on my money. I have trust in his ethics as a person, and he has a proven track record as a businessman for his honesty as well as his ablility to make these things work. I'll take the gamble to get the discounted price on Hobbits just as I did with WOZ. It would be nice however if the final installment would not be due until closer to the shipping date of the new game. Regardless...I would be in.

You bought Duke Nukem Forever? Ouch.

Ummm...PMI either ran out of money or did not cover those losses. Thats why the TARP money went to the banks.

LTG - I think you are one of the most respected and respectable guys here on this site and RGP. You have done a lot for pinball.

I get your point. And I agree that if one doesn't like the model, they need not buy.

My original point was that paying substantially upfront for years in advance is a horrible model for the pinball community. I would hate for it to become the norm. Spfxted singled my quote out and made it seem like I was over the top. I was simply making, what I think is a valid point.

Does this mean 1500 LE's? YYYooooowch. That alone would scare me, no matter the theme or whom the manufacturer is. I'd just buy regular if they are close in qualities.

Wish JJP best of luck, looks like they are moving along. Smart business on the payment plans for start up.

Waiting on theme #3.

That's what they want to to believe.

Watch all 4 episodes and learn:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/money-power-wall-street/

I know, right???????

So that's what I'm saying, if I bought TWO pinball machines I never played before for $15,000 , I'd be the biggest idiot in the world.

I am trying to calculate the risk. I think it is likelier that I would need to back out, given the high cost, than that JJP will fail, given the marketability of the theme. If the refund policy is good, it might, just might, be worth it. Hmmm...

Any thoughts about how the LE will differ materially from the standard version? That's another consideration.

The refund policy is only as good as the company behind it.

Like a bank in the 1920's, if a few people want all their money out, no problem. But if everyone wants their money out, you have lost it all.

If the company goes out of business, you have lost it all.

Pinballers are gamblers....who said that?

I don't see a "shut up" .....speeew as much as you like it is a free country we live in.

If you want to buy then buy -- if not, don't buy ----vote with your dollars

There would probably not be a JJP if many of us had not voted with our dollars long ago.

There is an airline that charges $100 for a carry on bag. I think that is not cool so I don't fly them, if everyone felt that way they would change their policy. Same for JJP if nobody liked this policy he will have to change it. Lets see how many Hobbit LE's he sells.

For all you that are pissed at Jack for using other peoples money to start JJP why don't you do the same thing and see how easy it is. You should be able to get a game out in a couple years and everyone will love you.

Have any of you dealt with The Pinball Store for buying your WOZ? Sent an email to Jen and she forwarded it on to The Pinball Store to handle my pre-order for The Hobbit.

Yep

Got my answer in new thread just started. Yes.

LOL

You can. Buy it when its done. Woot...win

well LTG, it is approximately 6:15 pm CDT on November 26th, 2012. There are now six posters on this thread who are not "happy and pleased". Not everyone is following the crowd.

And can someone please explain what a "Hobbit" is? I refuse to google it. Is it a person, animal or mineral?

Thats strange, I called at 2pm and got one. I wonder if the 500 extra are gone.

Hobbits are a fictional diminutive humanoid race who inhabit the lands of Middle-earth in J. R. R. Tolkien's fiction.

And are the subject of three up coming movies.

LTG : )

and three past movies

Come on, who doesn't know what a hobbit is.

Ack! Don't take the bait.

It would be pretty hard to avoid hearing anything about Hobbits over the last 10 years or so. You would have to have avoided Burger King (or McD, forget which had the toys) as well as movie theaters, the academy awards for 3 years, video games... oh and Halloween in general I suppose. I have no reason to doubt you, but it boggles the mind that anyone could have avoided them even if they tried!

Oh and you would have to have never known about a little pin called LOTR.

Please, most pinheads are not spring chickens. Truth is long before LOTR..Star Wars..Cable and decent TV that generation read all the books. The Hobbit many of us talk about is a fragment of the posters and creativity that lived in imaginations for years.
He knows of this Hobbit ; )

Treebeard didn't know.

I am participating in my own JJP payment plan.

Its called "When the game is in stock I will pay for it"

lol

Hey Frax, are you jumping in? I'm in for #825 again.

Yeah, but I can be just a grumpy Gus sometimes

They didn't ask for all money up front. Their model is modest deposit and when they go to build balance due. So far different.

I like Jack a lot. I gave him money on WOZLE to follow his vision and build a better product - and glad I did. Asking for money on #2 in same funding manner before game #1 is even delivered - makes me pause.

How so many forget Jack's almost major debacle on LOTR LE with Stern. He convinced Gary to do the LOTR LE run single handidly with intention that Jack would be sole distributor. Jack touted and presold LOTR LE. Stern opened it up to other disti's and the disti's upped the price on the LOTR LE for greater profit based on demand. Jack then sees money left on the table and emails all committed buyers the price is going up for LOTR LE for them. Enter RGP backlash at raising prices (not because Stern did but because others were making more money) after commitments - Jack backs away fast and honors first price. Read it on RGP if you don't believe me.

Point is he did the right thing in the end - true test of a person. I trust Jack but I also trust the good old american dollar and it sometimes makes people do strange things. A fool and his money are soon parted - so the saying goes.

To each their own no judgement here. I love what Jack is doing for pinball. I'm not a fan of funding pin #2 for all reasons previously stated. Don't vilify those of us that question where our money is going - we want Jack to succeed too - we have a right to question. Again, Stern introduces this model and you all will be calling for the heads. Be fair - is this your preferred model of payment for ALL pinball manufacturers?

I will purchase #2LE to go with my WOZLE. The biggest disappointment I have with JJP is that when I purchased the WOZ the end of January 2011 my incentive was two fold. Take a risk in us and you will get a savings but even more for me was getting a special LE that would have special differences from the STD. Well, after it all shakes out I fear my LE will have green trim and a nice plaque. I am not sure I would have tied up my money to save $500 as the STD could be bought with the shaker from a distributer for 7k. I don't know why everyone is so hung up on the LE WOZ as it is neither limited or special as it lost its exclusive backglass and topper.

I am in on number two but unless this LE rewards me for paying early sight unseen at a premium and the STD is different in a plaque only, I won't be doing it again.

True, a pinball machine is more to invest in- but again - I'll wait to see if he's in business 10 years fro now.

Here is a question - If someone does not want a LE - what incentive is there to pre-order and pay for the machine a few years in advance? What do they get over someone who waits?

Ed my friend, sounds like you had a bad day. If you are planning on being 6ft under before the Hobbit is released, do me a favor and let me buy your pins in your death. I will make sure you get the best funeral ever. I am talking classic cars, hot women and rock n' roll. We will party all night long is memory of the greatest pinball collectors to ever grace North Smithfield. Hell, I will even get you an open casket lap dance by no other than the great Elvira! Remember......"Hell ain't a bad place, hell is from here to eternity".

Do you mean you were directed to Pinballsales.com? If so, they are the distributor company owned by Jack and run by Jack and his family. There doesn't seem to be a difference buying a machine through JJP or PinballSales, other than the way Jack handles his accounting.

You get the advantage of playing the game first and seeing if it is any good.

Dummy me thought he meant The Pinball Company.

Could not agree more.

Someone posted here a link to a youtube video interview of Jack by Jim Schelberg , In this interview Jack himself says hes going on vacation to Italy and will be shipping games when he returns in July . I think going by the date he stated is a good place to start to determain when most people will start getting their games.

I'm following the same plan. Hopefully WOZ will be in stock somewhere soon.

As far as Hobbit goes... JJP collecting $500 now and $1500 in February, that's a quick 2.25 million in capital in just 60 days. WOW ... Always ... Be ... Closing

I am a woz LE owner (#980 i think) and i never got this message! Why is this?

By that time they'll be $8500-9000 and only automated services will have them in stock.

correction#960

That's OK by 2014 I plan on selling my Dolly Parton for 9K anyway.