(Topic ID: 285970)

Pinball Hall of Fame is running out of money

By timarnold

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Roostking
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    -6
    #312 3 years ago

    I never understood why people ask for money yet provide nothing for it? Why not put up 3-4 nice games and sell raffle tickets? $100 per ticket, and then provide people who give u free money free access to all the games at no cost ...do something

    #327 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    From his arcades. To his parties at his out buildings at his house in Vegas, to raise money for his dream. To opening the Pinball Hall Of Fame, relocating it. And now building for an even bigger and better future.
    I'd say he's been providing for pinball for over 30 years.
    LTG : )

    Thats all great, but I don't know the guy from Adam, and assume many are in the same situation...my point is being creative goes a long way versus just asking for a hand out

    1 year later
    #831 1 year ago

    He clearly was never running out of money...his earnings are very high yet from what I can see he hasn't donated much money....hmmm

    #835 1 year ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    Obviously there are a lot of assumptions going on here based on a single tax return. Tim said all along during the building phases of the new location that donations were going to be at a bare minimum.
    That being said, PHOF will never see another dime from me for completely different reasons.

    Well its kinda simple math isn't it? I was always under the impression they gave away a lot of their profits to local charities (although I get u need to hold some back )? These are all reported on returns. Clearly that wasn't happening. It appears he wants to keep all his toys to himself and get others to flip the bill? Clearly he's old school as he still fills out his tax forms by hand...I haven't done that in 30 years

    #836 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    I'm not an accounting expert. But when I read this I see two things:
    Revenue less expenses was $2,693,736
    Net assets are $7,670,528
    Can anyone explain to me how they're making $2.6 million a year, and yet every time I hear about someone stopping in they report back that half the games are broken and out of service? Is that not enough money for a couple of full time techs?

    Crazy profit....I guess u can pull that off when u don't pay any employees and u own everything outright. I would have assumed he would have taken a lot of that profit and donated it to charities.

    #838 1 year ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    Wait...I always heard that most of the profits went to the Salvation Army.

    I was never aware of exactly where they went, but I was under the impression most of the profit went to charities....per the return (unless I missed it or its not required to report) thats not the case.

    #841 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I believe they parted company a few years back. The SA let them use trucks. Tim was then donating to other charities then. According to news here.
    LTG : )

    Good intel......I wonder why anyone would ever part ways with a charity ? Usually charities are very grateful for ANY support, and per his returns he should have A LOT of support....sounds like the PHOF might have been abusing the privilege by using their trucks? Who knows, but their profits/assets are crazy high

    #843 1 year ago
    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    You guys are all making huge assumptions based off a 2019 return.
    This does not account for 2020 and the Pandemic which essentially shut down vegas for many months and even upon reopening, business was highly constrained and slow for couple years. The numbers also believe would not account for the new venue and move expenses

    True...it would be nice to compare to his 2020/2021 return

    #877 1 year ago

    Lawsuits are never fun, and can take a lot of time to resolve. So am I understanding this correctly that PHOF relies on all volunteers to maintain games, and doesn't pay anyone? If thats the case then PHOF may want to consider paying people so visitors can maximize their experience. Young people have zero interest in working for free so I'm sure if it was a paying gig it would work out for both parties, and theres plenty of cash flow to address this short coming.

    Quoted from vdojaq:

    This is why a full time, competent service technician needs to be hired and moved to Las Vegas with his expenses paid.
    Then, guys who work on machines that want to come in for 2 to 4 weeks at time, could be brought in for pay and their expenses.

    Totally agree....clearly theres enough cash flow to hire full time techs and actually pay them...

    #880 1 year ago
    Quoted from Fytr:

    Seems to me that having working games should be a high priority, right up with the other stuff that is taken care of to keep the doors open, like paying the taxes and utilities. What's the point if the games are thrashed?
    It's a tough labor market, but offering decent money and opportunity go a long way. With multiple MILLIONS in revenues coming in a whole friggin' team of maintainers should be hired and sustained. It's a lot easier to do so if you aren't relying on one guy to work all day everyday, and never leave.
    I mean, unless the whole point is to basically rip off unsuspecting tourists instead of providing a quality pinball experience - it is Vegas, after all...
    Honestly, I think the reason this hasn't happened is that Tim isn't interested in managing people. I get it, but maybe it's time he hired someone to establish and day-to-day manage the pinball tech team if he's not up to it. The money warrants it, then he can focus on whatever aspect of the operation he actually enjoys.

    I'm sure its complete nightmare to maintain these games, but without reliable full time or even part time employees that are paid the place will continue down the same path...It's not a start up that should be run on popsicle sticks and bubblegum...this place generates a lot of cash therefore if the guy wants to create the best experience for visitors he would keep the games up and running. In my opinion he has no excuse for complaining that volunteers don't want to help on his schedule .... if he doesnt want the overhead of hiring employees then hire contractors and pay them...everyone wins

    #893 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:Would love to hear what people think they need to pay to get that kind of person and staff to do this as a full time gig, be world class, get them to vegas… oh and be paid well enough to actually want the job.
    Where are these mercenaries and why aren’t they already doing this job at other spots?

    Oh come on dude....finding labor isn't a problem if they are paid, and based on the numbers he has a shit ton of cash to pay...this guy has been running this place for years on "Free" labor...imagine what he could do if he paid people....Vegas is a big place with a lot of people .... when people work for free it will never be a priority

    #898 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:Yet… nearly every city has a problem finding skilled pinball techs… even when people have cash in hand. Why do you think it’s simply a money thing when every single operation around the country has similar issues?

    All I know is there's plenty of revenue to solve the problem....he has been running this place without paying people a dime so please don't tell me he couldn't do it better if he actually paid people ....

    #913 1 year ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:Sure… nothing is hard when you just ignore the actual constraints.
    Instead of focusing on the gross revenue numbers and going zOMG big numbers!! why not ask Tim what he’s actually planning on clearing a month after expenses to have a real number to spitball with?
    I think everyone is just fixated on the top line number as if they are rolling around in money while watching the poor starve.

    Nobody is ignoring constraints yet u still don't understand my point. He has also run this place for years relying on free labor so clearly the labor constraints you define are not accurate. My point is if these people were paid along with others the operations would run far more efficiently....

    #922 1 year ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:flynnibus is all knowing. If he’s pushing back it’s because the universe has willed it this way. He who knows all has spoken do not argue his wisdom.

    He's providing zero wisdom .... just making excuses for an operation that clearly needs new direction

    #942 1 year ago

    Does the PHOF have a succession plan? What happens when the owner retires/quits, etc....Does he have a right hand man/woman that takes charge?

    #951 1 year ago
    Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:

    Reread post #871. Tim himself says "At some point in the future, this project will end and all the assest will be sold". So what I extrapolate from that statement is that when Tim decides to pack it in he'll just sell it all off. From my experience, when someone starts to say things like this, he is starting to think about it or is seriously thinking about selling it all off.
    Why would you keep putting up with the bullshit of being sued, fighting for land that you rightfully own and dealing with all the problems and headaches? Maybe it's time to start enjoying life and having fun.
    QSS

    Wow....Why spend all that $ and effort on a big fancy new building, signage, law suits, etc with no long term plan? So basically this place could shut its doors at any time?

    What a complete waste of time a effort

    -1
    #954 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Well we can see how successful it is. The people going there over and over don’t know the first thing about pinball. If 50 of the 300 work kinda, that’s 50 more games they’ve seen in their entire lives.
    Tim said 2022 had massive revenues. We will see soon enough. That’s with horribly maintained games. Why would he change that? Sounds like if things went badly enough, he’s just gonna close the doors and walk away.

    I agree....it all kinda makes sense now...this is a short term project, which is very unfortunate

    #959 1 year ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    One man’s passion for pinball can not keep PHOF going forever. When Tim finally has that aneurysm when someone stops him and says “Hey, I lost a quarter in that machine right over there, the one with the sign that say it’s out of something?”, we will pile his body into the cabinet of an Evil Knievel machine, set it afloat and aflame in the Belagio’s fountain, as we give him a great Viking funeral and say goodbye to the last great pinball entrepreneur of Las Vegas. It will be “Good bye Tim (and the PHOF) we knew ye well.”

    It's an incredible legacy/accomplishment to leave behind. Its unfortunate if thats not his long term plan

    #1047 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheOnlyest:

    I don't usually get involved in this kind of drama, and I wont speak ill of Tim, I certainly don't envy all the BS he has to deal with, but...
    I live in Las Vegas, and I have 30 years of (SS) pinball tech experience, including becoming Bally/Williams factory trained and certified back in 1992. Plus I have a degree in electronics engineering. I was also the lead tech at the NY-NY hotel/casino arcade for just short of 4 years (2014-2018). I even have 12 B/W games of my own, all 100% clean, maintained and functional!
    There have been multiple discussions over the past 6-7 years between myself and Tim, Beth, and another highly respected (but powerless) individual at PHoF, about me working full-time over there, and I've been blown off by Tim and Beth on the follow-up on every single occasion. And I feel pretty rear-ended over all of it.
    I am 55 now, and this would have been a dream career change for me, and I would LOVE to get out of the casino/resort environment. But I can't and wont work for free, especially not for millionaires! I have bills to pay, and Las Vegas is a VERY expensive place to live! I must maintain at least a $75K/year salary (I am currently making more than that) to live comfortably.
    Before the new building was even blueprinted, I was told they were going to shift to a for-profit model and have a paid staff, And I would be at the top of the list for lead tech. Obviously none of that was true or happened. I strongly believe, and apparently most of you guys agree, that this change of course would have certainly reversed the stigma of the PHoF being something of a pinball graveyard of dead games... Every time I think about what I could, and would have done to help that place be even more successful... I default to the text-book definition of "insanity".

    Sounds like you dodged a bullet....

    #1065 1 year ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    I'm just going to add my $0.02 here...
    Tim needs to "get with the times" when it comes to labor... the old days are long gone. My brother runs a big lawn care service, and let me tell you, for the past 2 years (probably longer) he has had a hard time hiring anyone to do anything that requires labor and hard work for any decent/reasonable money! The days of picking someone up at a labor service/person in need of pocket cash is LONG GONE. I doubt it will ever be the way it used to be. And he (my brother) pays a very fair rate (and cash to those that just want to work a day or a week and make an honest wad).
    There's nothing special about working around Pinball machines, and if anything, it requires more skill and patience to do that kind of work. Prices are up on EVERYTHING, rent is way up, the economy "is what it is". Unless he figures a way to actually pay techs, his old plan will continue to fail him and the Pinball hall of fame.
    I know it's tough getting past the old thinking on how you pay people, I saw my brother almost lose his business.. But it's step up and do it or sink the ship....

    I totally agree; however I don't think anything will ever change, because it's not a requirement to stay in business. He doesn't have to service any debt, and basically owns everything outright (games, building, land, signage, etc). The only costs he has are operational (insurance, legal, utilities, parts, contractors, etc). I mean does he pay himself? Other partners? How much does he spend on NIB games? How much does he actually give to charities? Per his own comments It sounds like he's had a banner year so it will be interesting to see where all the money goes? Normally I wouldn't care, but when a guy basically begs the community for 6 figures it opens up a lot of questions.

    #1122 1 year ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    That's not how it works. If they were claiming the donation as a deduction, they would have first had to claim the donations as income. It would only save them the taxes on that amount of income (call it 30%), not the entire amount, so in that case they would actually lose money for no good reason.
    They collect that money and bundle it for the charity, it is not considered income, or used as a deduction - unless there is a matching portion they can deduct.
    But your point is valid. They get plenty of goodwill by delivering a big check of other people's money.

    If u look at his website (and its terrible) he actually shows images of checks where he donated to charities http://pinballmuseum.org/donate.php ...

    #1128 1 year ago
    Quoted from galore2112:

    LOL, yeah, but it’s bizarre to go on a money beg if you are a millionaire.
    I understand separating personal assets from the business but I personally think it’s questionable ethics asking other people to chip in to your own business without any return, if you yourself are loaded.
    I mean, I don’t know that Tim guy’s finances but reading the OP, I thought, wow, struggling pinball business, kinda museum-ish, maybe worth donating to and it turns out the owner is apparently rich huh? How weird. Had I donated to a millionaire’s business, I’d feel like a total fool.
    I would never even think about begging if I was in that situation. Apparently people like you think this is cool?!?

    I agree...the title speaks for itself....its a clear money grab, but flynnibus thinks its not, which is fine...he can donate away

    #1129 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Funded 100% from the donated sales of newmans own products.
    The foundation is a separate entity from the dressing company.

    What about all the non profit hospitals that operate all over the country

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