(Topic ID: 285970)

Pinball Hall of Fame is running out of money

By timarnold

3 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Roostking
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    #125 3 years ago

    I think the ceiling height is a air movement/cooling thing... the datacenters are are built like this now too. BUTTT.. you heard how loud it was in there just with him and a few things going on in there. Can you imagine what it would be like with 400+ arcade games going on?? Hope there is a plan how that will be handled.

    15
    #179 3 years ago
    Quoted from timarnold:

    I admit I am a cheap prick bastard and pass the saving on to you!

    You just coined your tagline for future video ads...

    16
    #224 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    This is interesting information. Several hundred games are coming from his home? He has a battleship or air craft carrier or something?

    Wait... you've had a dozen plus posts in this thread being critical about the sustainability or practice of Tim.. and you don't even know the premise and history of this place??? da faq??

    Do yourself a favor - step away from this thread until you've caught up. You can listen to the old TOPcast interview as a good start - http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/showget.php?id=51

    And then watch this presentation for kind of an 'update' of where they were afterwards

    Then read Tim's description/updates here. You'll see Tim is already expanding their scope a good bit vs their traditional laser focus on operating pins and NOTHING else. You'll hear Tim mention time and time again what he sees as the evils/mistakes of others for not staying on target.

    Listen to those sessions... respect how far they have come and what they've accomplished... then consider maybe they aren't as dense as many armchair QBs think.

    #278 3 years ago
    Quoted from Timfenske11:

    I think the elephant in the room is half the people saying they would be more likely to donate and possibly more if the money was spent on maintaining the pinball hall of fame rather than passed on to local charities before this is done

    Let's make this really simple - The money isn't going to charities, the money goes to the PHOF project.

    Tim has outlined this in many interviews in the past - to paraphrase and keep it really short and simple.. their charitable donations stop when they are stockpiling money for a big spend. They resume when they are back to having excesses.

    20
    #280 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinfarmer:

    When I've been in a tight spot I've had to sell some machines for money rather than go into debt. Maybe he could sell a few games? I hear pins go for a lot these days.

    Funny what you might find if you read the details or the thread...

    #285 3 years ago
    Quoted from Timfenske11:

    You completely missed my point.. More pinheads would donate more if PHOF maintained their machines to a higher level BEFORE donating to local charities. Everyone understands the donation is to get the building open but would like to know that the open building full of pins will be playable.

    It's a broken record at this point. Tim has his model that he believes works for an arcade. He has decades of success behind him. At this point, and his age, does anyone really believe he is going to fundamentally change his approach to what is considered essential?

    The charitable donations is not what is holding back their spending. So trying to play chicken with that is pretty pointless.

    Tim is not cheap and thrifty BECAUSE of the charity donations.

    2 weeks later
    #626 3 years ago

    Tim explained he gave the lvcc a loan and is charging an interest rate based on the prime plus some factor to be cheap. He didn’t want the loan to be seen as some impropriety or gouging. So something fair and defendable for both sides.

    He also said the banks did not like their kind of business for lending making it suboptimal in terms of costs and borrowing.

    Pretty sure this was covered in his recorded expo session where he went through the purchase history and before construction started.

    Plus... we all know their desire to keep overhead to as little as possible.

    The GoFundMe is an opportunity for all those that say “how can i help...” to convert into a real need. or as a way of paying back hoping to keep this mission moving forward

    1 week later
    #656 3 years ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    Yes, every dollar helps and I have donated a couple of times myself. To call the project bankrupt is a bit of a reach and kind of an insult to the people you are asking money from.

    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Yes, it seemed like a little too much hyperbole. It's a short-term cash crunch, not bankruptcy.

    aka - Clickbait

    1 week later
    #730 3 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I have to admit I am a bit salty at Tim asking for more donations even though the funding goal was reached. Like, don’t be greedy.

    Its not like their expenses stopped. Their goal was based on what was critical - not what was inclusive

    For instance, i don’t think their strip sign was in their critical opening costs at all.. (my inference from how he’s spoken about the sign and its design since they went into the fundraising mode).

    4 weeks later
    2 weeks later
    #806 2 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Tim is the "MASTER" of keeping things simple and to the point. Glad the sign on the front of his Ten Million Dollar building still matches his style. Why waste money on a fancy sign when you can just paint one word on the front of your building and get the same message out? I am just a little surprised Vegas didn't demand he to something a little more fancy but glad Tim could keep it simple!

    Uh, he's planning a 60ft custom sign on the Strip.

    1 year later
    #851 1 year ago
    Quoted from SimpleSam:

    It makes pretty good money but isn't donating any significant amount.

    Come on people... this is old hat at this point. It's something that has been addressed multiple times by Tim and others.

    They've been saving for and spending on the facility for years now which has reduced their charity giving. They have been investing in the org and that in turn has basically eliminated their charity action until they get through the big building phase.

    For anyone not keeping score... the building is open, but they are still far from done in their transition to the new building and operation.

    #852 1 year ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Can anyone explain to me how they're making $2.6 million a year, and yet every time I hear about someone stopping in they report back that half the games are broken and out of service? Is that not enough money for a couple of full time techs?

    How do you think they paid for nearly 10million in expenses without incurring major long term debt?

    They are putting all that money into the org and their assets - instead of spending on people labor.

    #853 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Well its kinda simple math isn't it? I was always under the impression they gave away a lot of their profits to local charities (although I get u need to hold some back )?

    Then you weren't paying very close attention.

    This cycle happened the same when they moved last time as well.

    They don't use debt to finance their activities or big acquisitions. They go into squirrel mode and stash as much of their money into savings as they can to have a cash pool to make the next big thing happen.

    So when they are in stable state... they donate... when they are planning something big, they hoard cash, then spend big, then repeat the cycle.

    Now that they finally have their 'end game' location - the huge multi-million dollar investments should be behind them and once the project is completed they should be returning to giving more to charity in the future as the big spends taper off and they find their new normal.

    They had Tim loan money and they used the gofundme to help bridge the gap too.. in addition to the millions they had saved from past revenue.

    #854 1 year ago

    People misread the IRS stuff...

    What you should be seeing is how they have a very good revenue stream.

    What you should be seeing is they have had a lot of NET revenue because of Tim's historical thriftiness.

    What you are all misreading though is what they do with that NET. For years they've been dumping all that money back into their own operation (Re-Investing). They are 'poor' in the sense they are spending all the money they make back on themselves rather than taking profits for the owners.

    Now because of this, they have a huge asset in their land and structure. Hopefully we see their revenues soar from it... because along with the new asset come huge new OpEx liabilities they have to pay for. What you can't see from this old form is what they intend to do with their net revenue GOING FORWARD.

    When you look backwards in the last 5+years you don't see a lot of charity... and this has been covered because the profits were being reinvested into the future of the org.

    They've always given their excess to charity.... the part people are missing is they don't give to charity FIRST, they tend to give the extra to charity. For years, there is no extra because they've been so focused on making the big move happen.

    #855 1 year ago

    A trip in the wayback machine for those who don't recall... Tim Arnold in 2018

    "...although, in the last three or four years we haven't been doing much of the charity work because we've been building up a war chest, a building fund, trying to get out of the facility we're in on Tropicana..."

    Tim's presentations are always worth listening to.
    another old one...

    It's more interesting to hear his stories and to see how he's FINALLY broken ranks with his old adage of 'do only one thing'

    #857 1 year ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Salvation Army pissed off a lot of people a few years ago, maybe he didnt want to support them anymore.

    He backed off the SA a bit when the SA got in lots of trouble... there was local issues too IIRC with the SA leadership. Regardless... the big pivot was to investing in their assets... not something nefarious or misleading. Apparently a lot of people skim Tim's posts instead of reading

    #863 1 year ago
    Quoted from Ballypin:

    IIRC, the building is now the major asset and when the PHOF project ceases to continue, the building or the value of the building goes to charity.
    At least I thought that is what Tim said/meant when he said "Pull the chain, stop the ride".

    When the PHOF ceases to continue the legal entity needs to continue its mission or it could dissolve.. and divest it's interests. But because they are a non-profit, that transfer must be to another non-profit or do so in a way that is consistent with their charitable mission. (just like they were able to sell their past building... by using the money to buy the new one)

    The jist of it is.. once something goes into a non-profit, it's not supposed to come back out for someone's individual gain... but stay true to the purpose of the non-profit or another.

    #864 1 year ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Looks like PHOF is financially secure and shouldn’t be needing any more donations?

    This is akin to someone saying "you make $100,000?? You must be rich!!"

    Without even considering where the person lives, what their bills are, etc.

    #882 1 year ago

    I swear no one reads the PHOF threads before giving their views, even tho they have been around the entire time. It's so freaky.

    PHOF used to help bring in volunteers in stints including helping with a place to stay. That went away with the old facilities. People also report getting trust from Tim is difficult. Tim reports tons of people don't actually know what they are doing and therefore picky

    So there is this standoff where Tim can't get volunteers that he trusts to stick around long enough to make a sustained impact. They claim they can't get new blood in to learn because of the poor work ethics and basically lack of interest/commitment into this finite role.

    The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Impossible to find someone dedicated enough to live like Tim does... get paid peanuts.. be good enough to win Tim's trust.. and not burn up trying to keep up with a mountain of work.

    Maintaining hundreds of games isn't a one man show. You need a good handful of people who can work on all generations, be willing to do so for peanuts, and be willing to face a 365 day operation. It's a tall order.

    But even if you can't get a winner... they should at least be trying to make some progress. Spend and get at least some work out of it and stop expecting everyone to be like Tim. There aren't enough to go around who can afford to be that.

    -1
    #886 1 year ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Thats the point, the $$$ doesnt have to be for peanuts. Pay someone/s a wage that keeps 80% of the pins up and make it a memorable experience, or just rename it the Biggest! Pinball Museum and make people feel lucky that some "old pinballs and games" are playable.

    Would love to hear what people think they need to pay to get that kind of person and staff to do this as a full time gig, be world class, get them to vegas… oh and be paid well enough to actually want the job.

    Where are these mercenaries and why aren’t they already doing this job at other spots?

    #892 1 year ago
    Quoted from mikeflan:

    Seems like a lot of money, but I'd think the investment would be worth it. Brian Kelly, Christopher Hutchins, Chris Hibler... Tim needs you.

    All these guys have found a happy balance in a life they have chosen… and notably do it solo. Why would they give up their situation to go work a grinding job for someone else in a city they don’t want to be in?

    The best example would be Clay. He’s been hip to hip with Tim for decades… yet he stays in MI and builds his own empire instead.

    And that’s kinda my point. You can’t lure those kinds of people into a job just with the lure of ‘heres work!’.

    You are better off targeting people who already work as rank in file in soneone else’s company. Like techs that work at the Game Exchange, or shops like TNT Amusements. Someone living a blue collar life working for someone else.

    There are small full time techs spread around the country… but are they looking to give up their company and relocate? And work in a meat grinder?

    So what’s it take to lure someone like that to relocate?

    I think the answer is a huge premium. But that’s the angle I’d take if you don’t believe in training apprentices

    #894 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    How about 10% of income is dedicated to employees. So $200k for a couple (2-3) we’ll trained techs. I’m sure someone would do the job for $60k a year.

    Some napkin math. You gotta assume 30% overhead on salaries even without sexy perks… so you’re already down to 140k. If you planned for three people… a senior and two juniors. 40/30/30. That’s 56k and 42k salaries.

    The 56k is about 1080 gross a week. That is lower than most journeymen trade salaries. A tech working at home charging $100/hr .. that is about 3-4 jobs a week.

    The 42k job is only 800/week. About 20/hr equivalent at 10hr days. Would you give up your established job and setting for that? I don’t think many would.

    This is why I figured in the other post you gotta lure the people already working in the back of someone’s shop.

    Most work is done by people on the side… which makes getting them to do it full time that much harder.

    Tim should be trying to recruit nationally… but it’s gonna be a huge commitment- from both parties. Unfortunately most people think moving for work is an inconceivable concept anymore.

    You’re not going to get talent without a hook. And ‘we don’t spend money!’ Is a tough image for people to forget.

    #895 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Oh come on dude....finding labor isn't a problem if they are paid, and based on the numbers he has a shit ton of cash to pay...this guy has been running this place for years on "Free" labor...imagine what he could do if he paid people....Vegas is a big place with a lot of people .... when people work for free it will never be a priority

    Yet… nearly every city has a problem finding skilled pinball techs… even when people have cash in hand. Why do you think it’s simply a money thing when every single operation around the country has similar issues?

    #897 1 year ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Dunno, Im not the guy with 100s of pins that need servicing. $100,000 a year? Dont you manage a route or something, what would it take in your opinion?

    We all work for free… it’s the only way we can make it work. Obviously that doesn’t scale to phof, silverball museum, alameda, etc.

    Those would be the people I’d be talking to if Tim. Todd Tuckey, JJ, etc… who actually float a sizable staff to keep their volume up.

    #899 1 year ago
    Quoted from newovad:

    When I go to locations now with half broken games, I just get upset because of how easy most of it is to fix.

    A simple measuring stick i have learned. Less than 10 games… all repairs are fun. At 20 games you start to pick and choose what you want to repair or skip. At 30 games you accept it can’t be all working all the time. At 40+ most eventually give up and reduce at some point. And that’s just in home use… not location losd.

    Even simple repairs become burdensome when it is in such volume and frequency… it’s like chasing your tail. Pins under load are non stop upkeep. Even just cleaning to prevent more damage is a full time job in itself once you get into the big numbers. 10min wipe down? 8hrs is only 50 games a day if you worked non stop.

    How many weeks do you think you could do that before you just say ‘is it dead?? No? Ok play on’

    TLDR - Scale kills… and quickly redefines what you are willing to accept as passable

    #901 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    All I know is there's plenty of revenue to solve the problem....he has been running this place without paying people a dime so please don't tell me he couldn't do it better if he actually paid people ....

    Sure… nothing is hard when you just ignore the actual constraints.

    Instead of focusing on the gross revenue numbers and going zOMG big numbers!! why not ask Tim what he’s actually planning on clearing a month after expenses to have a real number to spitball with?

    I think everyone is just fixated on the top line number as if they are rolling around in money while watching the poor starve.

    #902 1 year ago
    Quoted from poppapin:

    I doubt Todd Tuckey is paying the salaries you guys are floating.

    The key is he has people willing to do yhe kind of work… and having someone capable and willing to do the work is most of the battle. Lots to be learned from what it takes to keep that kind of staff.

    Instead of dreaming about white collar guys doing side work… or people that run their own businesses .

    Probably a lot better chance of luring a 35yr old bachelor from PA then a retired self employed guy.

    #905 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:I think your argument just further proves the point that maintenance should be a bigger priority and that more hands are needed to solve the problem.

    you mean like when I said the other day...

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Maintaining hundreds of games isn't a one man show. You need a good handful of people who can work on all generations

    ?

    I was just responding to the poster who said they were upset because of how 'easy' the fixes were. 'Easy' gets redefined and reprioritized when dealing with scale.

    I do think Tim has finally shown signs of change (the merch, etc) and seen his own positions were not the correct one. I do think he will change when it comes to Techs too... but I just don't see him paying the kind of money it would take to lure people to relocate and be full time. And the local 'help' clearly hasn't been enough or is at odds with Tim.

    Maybe Tim would be better off re-arranging the room a bit to keep all the 'storage' stuff behind curtain walls until they get their long term situation sorted.

    #914 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Nobody is ignoring constraints yet u still don't understand my point. He has also run this place for years relying on free labor so clearly the labor constraints you define are not accurate. My point is if these people were paid along with others the operations would run far more efficiently....

    The labor constraints are not accurate?

    Are there roves of pinball techs doing full time work in your neck of the woods?

    Are all the major pinball sites overflowing with pinball techs doing this full time?

    Are there tons of techs in vegas that just are not working at phof but working pinball full time elsewhere in town?

    Simply having money doesn’t change the problem of what it takes to staff the kind of need here.

    People have a hard time keeping staff to do even the most basic cashier work and you think pay is Tim’s only problem filling the need? That’s cute

    #924 1 year ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    You usually have a solution and I find it suprising that you dont. I dont understand your pushback on the obvious, pay someone enough $$$ and make it viable long-term.
    What other solution is there, besides scale down or make it a pinball Museum?

    I can’t be onsite for 30mins without strangers interrupting me asking for pinball repair work or referrals. The shortage of people who do this work is real. And that’s in a market where the going rate is over $100/hr.

    There is a HUGE difference between the idea of someone who fixes games as a side gig or as a volunteer and someone who is willing to make coinOp their full time career and is willing to do the work non-stop. You’ll find an endless supply of people willing to give ideas or talk about helping… but where the rubber meets the road… and after a fee months you’ll find the help quite different from what was offered.

    Hobby verse pro. CoinOp is a tough job with low pay.

    I already said what my suggestion was… I’d be talking to the real pros who run businesses on the back of these kinds of techs. Not the guys who can get by with one or two lifers… the guys who have ro recruit, train, and keep that help on staff long enough to make it worth it. GEX, TNT, PPM, etc. find out who they have success with… what kind of pay they need… what were busts… etc. and maybe try to lure an established master tech to vegas to build around.

    Obviously Tim’s need is beyond volunteers. But he also needs someone (besides himself) he can build a tech staff around. A staff that is going to need multiple full time people and augment with volunteers to handle the lightweight stuff.

    But this solution is more than ‘just pay the man!’ — you need ‘the man’ and Tim needs to address the blockers they’ve had in the past.

    Another issue is apparently they are/were super paranoid about theft so anything around the coinboxes was high drama and a problem with help. That’s not sustainable with real help and oins. Vegas is some of the most watched public spaces around… cone up with a monitoring or control system that eases that concern.

    Their problem isn’t just ‘set a tech budget’. Anyone who actually hires staff these days knows better than that.

    #926 1 year ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I should think in Las Vegas, a top of the line slot machine tech. Could earn a heck of a lot more than a pinball tech.
    LTG : )

    It would be an interesting comparison… especially since vegas is a union town.

    But it leads the question… who is he really competing with? Tim’s comment about people not wanting to make the phof their career is a key observation I think many under estimate.

    Do you keep working in hvac or the jiffy lube with hopes of moving up the ladder… or at least be able to switch jobs to get a raise….

    or do you go work for this hippie to with little upward future to learn a skill set that has what kind of portability to work for someone else?

    These are real challenges to overcome that you don’t solve long term with just offering more koney.

    #939 1 year ago

    I just want to hear how they manage 800+ coin slots without wanting to kill themselves Especially on all those old games.

    #962 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I agree....it all kinda makes sense now...this is a short term project, which is very unfortunate

    A short term project they've been working on for nearly 30 years now? You're just trolling. Do you take any context into what you read?

    #963 1 year ago
    Quoted from pookycade:

    Obviously the model du jour is free play.

    We know why they aren't flat rate. Tim's vision is this 'cheap vegas, free to come in' model. Free parking.. free admission... Where else you going to get that? It's part of his pitch for the place. He's covered this countless times. A throwback in face of the escalating costs of doing anything in Vegas.

    It has everything to do with that idea... not so much about implementation.

    My comment is just coin doors especially on older 40+yr old games are so temperamental.. I hate dealing with a handful, can't imagine how they keep hundreds running. And I want to know their secret

    Your other post about help is spot on.. this entire tangent is prefaced on people seeing a top line revenue number and going zOMG they should just pay people! (which is why this is in the thread about the gofund me to start with). Nevermind just the desire to pay someone is just one piece of the puzzle.

    #965 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    How old is Tim?
    If the end game is to sell the building and all of the games before he retires/gives-up/passes away. Then why go through all the trouble to build a pinball Mecca just for a couple years with the plan to just remove it all and pull the rug from the community that’s supported and built it all. Sure it’s a one time pay day for charity, but charity is a never ending endeavour. Why build a legacy that’s designed to fade away, when this has the potential to be historic for generations to come?

    People are taking things completely out of context.

    Tim's point is more to the "get it while you can.. it's not going to be forever!" and blunt responses to challenges about his control tendencies. He's already been talking about giving up some of the duties he used to hoard to make the entity more functional.

    And a response to the challenges that they are doing this all for themselves or wasting the money. He's pointing out that all the money spent is going into assets that ultimately still serve the mission.. even in liquidation. It's investment - not waste.

    His comment is more to the message of "no one else is willing to do what I do... so if I'm gone... maybe it can't keep going and they just have to shut it down". It's more a retort to challenges about Tim's commitment vs others.

    The big concern is what happens when your leader who gives 3,000% more than any other human being is gone.. can you continue? Who will do what he did? Can it still function?

    Well according to so many here... the money will solve all their problems, they just gotta pay someone. So what's the concern?

    #981 1 year ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    I can't imagine anything more of a nightmare than trying to fix a machine while people are in the place.

    Poor lighting… loud… nosey customers… interruptions

    The struggle is real

    -1
    #984 1 year ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    Then ya go in after hours to work on the machines. Owning a business is not just a 9 to 5 job.
    When ya own it you gonna have to put in xtra hrs to make it work

    Thanks dad. I never thought of that.

    Meanwhile… we get games back up and running ASAP when possible. And the notion of a schedule is not even in the vocabulary. But thanks for the life lesson

    #1049 1 year ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    By any chance are you the guy that used to have the pins at NYNY? Those used to play like they were fresh out of the box. I'm bummed that they're no longer there.

    Sounds like he was the tech - not the Operator. The Operator used to post here on pinside... he had an arcade downtown too for awhile. His account is inactive now
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fremont-arcade-downtown-las-vegas-fremont-street-experience

    #1051 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheOnlyest:

    This is accurate, the pins were owned by an operator, on a revenue share deal with MGM, I was the MGM employed, lead tech

    Can you share if those roles in the casinos are union?

    Earlier in the thread people were spitballing what he could get techs for and what they would need to spend. Your perspective is interesting because not only did you share a specific story and 'price point', but also have experience with similar fields in town. Your story shines some light on expectations for the kind of hires in the market. Thx for sharing.

    #1057 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    I do building maintenance for over 50 units in 15 different locations, so I know how hard it can be to keep everything at 100% all the time and what it cost to keep things running smoothly. Plus I can appreciate how hard it is to find good help, and the cost to keep them around, but it can be done. We’re having a hard time getting summer students to do lawn work for $18/hr, I can only imagine the difficulty in working with volunteers.

    I think everyone agrees they need full time help. I was largely responding to the lay basically just saying 'pay the man' as the sole reason it's not happening. When you put the real constraints in play people have to accept it's more than just $$ holding efforts back. Simply having a blank check isn't how all problems are solved. And the numbers people were assuming were way off base.

    People talked about volunteers.. Tim just outlined how he 'invested' in 3, and none of them are here now. Unfortunately turnover is something that Tim is just going to have to learn to accept. You can understand his frustration - but that's just a fact of life with employees instead of owners. It's not an excuse to abandon seeking staffers.

    The lunacy was someone suggesting to allow drop-ins to work on games. Randos in your games, who even if in good intentions, cause you must bigger problems? Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? Break that unobtanium ramp or plastic while cleaning the game, etc.. everyone is a liability and it's something you have to manage. Drop-ins is a horrible idea. Having groups of people you can oversee helps.. but it rings back to the dedication problem... unlike the Banning example which focused on getting ready for key events... places like PHOF have perpetual needs. Tim's trust issues while rooted in truth, are extreme and part of the issue too.

    Managing people, recruiting people, tending to their needs too... all takes time and energy. Unfortunately not everyone who is 'good at a job' is necessarily 'good with managing people'. PHOF v3 is obviously too big for their old ways.

    There is an obvious disconnect from what people here think are 'issues' vs what Tim does. For example, his storage container issue could be solved with re-arranging the room or paying for off-site storage (or go back to the shed?). Tim would rather just put stuff off to the side in plain sight. Who is right?

    One thing is for sure... it's hard to convince someone to change when their traffic is doing as Tim claims.

    -1
    #1080 1 year ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Normally I wouldn't care, but when a guy basically begs the community for 6 figures it opens up a lot of questions.

    Did you read what Tim wrote about the gofundme?

    Tim already admitted the gofundme was a way to consolidate all the random offers for help. People dropping comments like ‘id love to contribute…’ ‘how can we help..’ ‘i’d buy a shirt to help…’ etc. instead of the haphazard disjointed stuff someone convinced him to just do a gofundme and take online contributions.

    It was a put-up-or-shutup kind of move. You wanna help? Here’s the simple way… when we are up against some overruns as we finish the project.

    It’s only begging if you look at everyone running a tip jar or patreon or whatever is begging.
    Basically it was no different than before except a nice consolidation which made for a great end push for construction.

    The drama about running out is more about show and purpose. Nice incentive to motivate people’s timing.

    He should just keep a venmo qr code or something up to collect donations and tips now.

    #1116 1 year ago
    Quoted from galore2112:

    I think it’s weird asking the community for money if one is rich. After reading the headline I was under the impression that the owner is broke.

    I find it more weird people think individuals don’t separate their own assets from a business’s

    #1133 1 year ago
    Quoted from galore2112:

    I understand separating personal assets from the business but I personally think it’s questionable ethics asking other people to chip in to your own business without any return, if you yourself are loaded.

    Because you don’t read but are happy to judge anyways.

    He personally loaned 400k to the org as part of the recent build. He’s also given decades of his life…

    You want him to do everything solo because he has assets himself?

    Maybe you don’t understand what a non profit is… but the business isn’t ‘his’ nor his piggy bank. He’s done the extreme to not take any of the money for years of his life. Do you not consider that ‘chipping in’? Or the years of fundraising he and clay did to bootstrap it to start with?

    There sure is a lot of people happy to judge without bothering to get informed first

    #1135 1 year ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Hard to say what being informed is. I've followed along with this thread and others... But so much of everything is just personal anecdotes, hearsay and ancient history.

    There are seminars and talks given where these things have been covered - linked in this thread too. The actual filed tax forms were linked… they can also be found online as well as looking up charities on places like guidestar. There is no voodoo here, just an actual interest in knowing verse reacting to things in isolation.

    Quoted from koji:

    Things don't really add up, as this one person seems to take all the blame and credit at the same time. Really, if this is a true non profit, there should be a board of directors.

    Again this is covered in publicly available documentation.

    Quoted from koji:

    From this thread, the plan is that at some point the whole project just gets folded and donated out. Who would want to contribute for that?

    Because people are taking comments too literally. I already elaborated the full context earlier. It’s a response to criticism of spending verse giving and an old man pushing back against personal criticism. If you spend any actual time observing Tim over the years you will get the color of his comments.

    So much of this thread reads like a bunch of Karens challenging the manager because of what they think they know.

    It’s not hard to just read tim’s posts here on pinside… he’s pretty much always on this topic and nothing else. Then watch his talks (youtube) and look at ghe guidestar and nv lookups. Tim shares far far far more than most operations in our hobby. You just have to be willing to take the info in.

    Now he is not flawless at all.. many would even call him vindictive… but it’s not hard to see where he’s telling a single side (vs other topics).

    #1136 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Makes me wonder if Tim draws a salary, or if he donates his time?

    This is covered in the form posted that revived this thread… and covered by tim countless times.

    Tldr - no
    What he declares on his personal taxes for that time and effort given to the org is s different matter. The guy lives off his prior earnings and investments.

    1 week later
    #1141 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tuukka:

    Are the PHOF EM games really converted to LED lighting, or is it just the photos?

    Tim was a real early adopter of converting games to LEDs even before easily accessible pinball LEDs were a thing. With 300+ games in the building, he was a big advocate of the power and heat savings.

    Unfortunately being that early adopter, he didn't have all the color temp options that we have now.

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