(Topic ID: 285970)

Pinball Hall of Fame is running out of money


By timarnold

3 months ago

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  • 824 posts
  • 286 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 22 days ago by Crash
  • Topic is favorited by 49 Pinsiders

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    There are 824 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 17.
    #301 3 months ago

    I've never met Tim personally, so take this for what it is. A little over a year ago, I drove 4 hours to visit the PHOF. Vegas was the secondary attraction. I planned on spending a whole weekend playing every pin in the place, and really getting to know some games I might not otherwise get a chance to know. I went straight there, before checking into my hotel, planning to spend a few hours getting the lay of the land. I dropped a 20 in the coin machine, and filled my pockets with quarters. After about 30 minutes, walking the isles, and trying a handful of games, I pretty much got the picture. At best, half the machines were in good enough condition to actually learn the whole game, despite the rest still being on to take your money. I remember specifically, a ball got stuck on waterworld. I told the technician, who proceeded to do nothing about it. He almost looked angry that I was even mentioning another complaint. I left, my plans for the pin trip completely annihilated. I own pins, and know they always need maintenance. So do it, or don't put the machine on the floor and turn it on. I would truly be happy to donate money if that experience went well, but it was the biggest disappointment in my entire pinball life. I would say it was just bad luck, but it's well documented that this was par for the course. Again, I've never met Tim, and I'm not talking about an experience with him personally, but the PHOF. The operation was happy to take my money when times were good and not provide the advertised service. I don't believe that my donation will change anything, except I will have given more money to keep a bunch of rare pins in a sad condition. Times are tough for everyone. And the local arcades who have always done well by me to provide excellent pin experiences are also in need. I'll spend my quarters elsewhere.

    15
    #302 3 months ago
    Quoted from micromegas:

    I've never met Tim personally, so take this for what it is.

    4 posts in 2 years I take as someone's 2nd account.....

    Even if only 'half the games were working' you would have been there more than 30 minutes.

    #303 3 months ago

    Donated earlier in the week. Also sent the link to a number of pin friends asking them to consider making donations.

    #304 3 months ago

    He should raffle off 100 machines @ $100 a ticket

    #305 3 months ago
    Quoted from fireball2:

    Just some somethin somethins from my Tim interview:
    He really does have EVERY GOTTLIEB GAME. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
    The new building looks like Scrooge McDuck's money pit!
    He won't talk fave machines because then there would be haters.
    https://unclepinball.buzzsprout.com/

    Great interview with Tim!

    39
    #306 3 months ago

    Here’s what I know:

    That I’ve been to PHOF about 8 times. Every experience has been great

    I’ve never seen more than 15-20 floor games down at once. (not doubting others, just my experience)

    I’d never have the chance to play Goin’ Nuts or Pinball Circus without Tim’s efforts

    In a city I really can’t stand, it gives me an alternative to drinking and gambling.

    I regularly see non-pinball fans come in and have a blast.

    That it does a tremendous service to our community

    That the expansion will only serve to make more games that fans would never see available to play

    That Tim donates 100’s of 1000s every year.

    That this hobby is full of miserable selfish people who always think they know better and can’t get past their own disappointment and arrogance, and who can’t, despite their knowledge of the challenges involved in maintenance, sympathize with how difficult it must be to attempt what Tim is trying to do. Thankfully, these people are not the norm. Why they feel the need to crap on his endeavors in a thread designed to raise money for a charitable organization is beyond me. It’s a charity for craps sake. Let your need to gripe and criticize go.

    #307 3 months ago
    Quoted from micromegas:

    . I don't believe that my donation will change anything, except I will have given more money to keep a bunch of rare pins in a sad condition. Times are tough for everyone.

    I keep thinking about all of the struggling arcade owners that can barely keep their heads above water right now, not just trying to finish out the build out of a 10 million dollar building. Do not forget to support your local arcades!(Even if you just go to play) They need help as well, here in Colorado we have some of the best operators in North America that take extreme pride in having games that are in tip top condition for their patrons. I feel fortunate and want as many arcade owners/operators to survive this shit show as possible. If Tim wants to put cotton in his ears-it is what it is but he is beginning to sound like the Soup Nazi episode from Seinfeld-Say nothing or No Soup for You! Take it-or leave it! Sounds a bit arrogant like a gorilla pounding his chest.

    He has a business model that is archaic and people keep saying it is successful? Is it really successful? Does the amount of charity outweigh the poor business model? Just because you stay in business makes it successful? PHOF will be just fine because they have a lot of foot traffic from tourist who just want to find something to do and go flip some machines. Many do not know the difference from a machine that plays properly to a machine that does not. Now that they are on the strip, they can do even better. I get that everyone just appreciates having PHOF around but please do not forget about the arcades struggling to survive in your own backyard. May try and support both?

    #308 3 months ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    May try and support both?

    I have decided to put my money where my mouth is...I am going to go out today and support a local arcade operator in my area.

    I will pack up the wagon with the chitlins and make an adventure out of it. If you see a dysfunctional family that resembles the Griswold's-it may be us.

    14
    #309 3 months ago
    Quoted from albummydavis:

    Here’s what I know:
    That I’ve been to PHOF about 8 times. Every experience has been great
    I’ve never seen more than 15-20 floor games down at once. (not doubting others, just my experience)
    I’d never have the chance to play Goin’ Nuts or Pinball Circus without Tim’s efforts
    In a city I really can’t stand, it gives me an alternative to drinking and gambling.
    I regularly see non-pinball fans come in and have a blast.
    That it does a tremendous service to our community
    That the expansion will only serve to make more games that fans would never see available to play
    That Tim donates 100’s of 1000s every year.
    That this hobby is full of miserable selfish people who always think they know better and can’t get past their own disappointment and arrogance, and who can’t, despite their knowledge of the challenges involved in maintenance, sympathize with how difficult it must be to attempt what Tim is trying to do. Thankfully, these people are not the norm. Why they feel the need to crap on his endeavors in a thread designed to raise money for a charitable organization is beyond me. It’s a charity for craps sake. Let your need to gripe and criticize go.

    Agreed. People in this thread are literally complaining about lost quarters. QUARTERS. Good grief. If you own a pin, you have more than enough. Donate or not, but you are being beyond petty to complain so much in this thread. If you are fortunate enough to have a job in this economy, donate to SOMETHING and count your blessings.

    #310 3 months ago

    Donated. I’ve never been to the PHOF but I’ve listened to Tim’s old TOPCAST interviews so many times I feel like I’ve worked there. The man is an institution.

    #311 3 months ago

    The way the donations are coming in things are really not looking good for the PHOF. The first 3 or 4 days it looked like go-fun-me might help Tim out of a bind but money coming in to the go-fun-me drive has all but stopped over the past day or so. Very SAD to see the lack of support for someone who has done so much for the hobby & charity.

    I thought Tim was crazy taking this project on when I saw the original post about it. NOT because of the lack of planning or funding but Tim is almost retirement age and this is a hell of a project to take on for someone half his age. I really hope he makes out OK in the end but unless more people step up we might see PHOF closed and a For Sale sign on a brand new custom built building. Really sad to see things headed in that direction!

    -6
    #312 3 months ago

    I never understood why people ask for money yet provide nothing for it? Why not put up 3-4 nice games and sell raffle tickets? $100 per ticket, and then provide people who give u free money free access to all the games at no cost ...do something

    #313 3 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I never understood why people ask for money yet provide nothing for it? Why not put up 3-4 nice games and sell raffle tickets? $100 per ticket, and then provide people who give u free money free access to all the games at no cost ...do something

    Umm cause this is donating to a charity so the something you “get” is the deduction. He could do raffle tickets but I’m sure whatever he offers would just bring more criticism.

    13
    #314 3 months ago

    This thread has really shown me the good and bad of Pinside and has changed my opinion of some members for the positive or negative.

    #315 3 months ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    The way the donations are coming in things are really not looking good for the PHOF. The first 3 or 4 days it looked like go-fun-me might help Tim out of a bind but money coming in to the go-fun-me drive has all but stopped over the past day or so. Very SAD to see the lack of support for someone who has done so much for the hobby & charity.
    I thought Tim was crazy taking this project on when I saw the original post about it. NOT because of the lack of planning or funding but Tim is almost retirement age and this is a hell of a project to take on for someone half his age. I really hope he makes out OK in the end but unless more people step up we might see PHOF closed and a For Sale sign on a brand new custom built building. Really sad to see things headed in that direction!

    I’m not too worried, I gave this week, I’ll give again next week, Robin keeping it as a sticky will keep driving new traffic. I think we will get this done and hit the number.

    25
    #316 3 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I never understood why people ask for money yet provide nothing for it?

    From his arcades. To his parties at his out buildings at his house in Vegas, to raise money for his dream. To opening the Pinball Hall Of Fame, relocating it. And now building for an even bigger and better future.

    I'd say he's been providing for pinball for over 30 years.

    LTG : )

    #317 3 months ago

    In the Uncle Pinball interview, Tim explains why selling off a bunch of machines isn't really feasible.
    He also addresses other complaints voiced here...

    https://unclepinball.buzzsprout.com/

    #318 3 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    I'd say he's been providing for pinball for over 30 years.

    THIS! Thanks Lloyd!

    11
    #319 3 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    From his arcades. To his parties at his out buildings at his house in Vegas, to raise money for his dream. To opening the Pinball Hall Of Fame, relocating it. And now building for an even bigger and better future.

    I'd say he's been providing for pinball for over 30 years.

    LTG : )

    I might add that because of Tim. Many people get to see and play very rare games that otherwise would be in private collections and never be seen or heard of again.

    LTG : )

    #320 3 months ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    This thread has really shown me the good and bad of Pinside and has changed my opinion of some members for the positive or negative.

    Agreed. My ignore button is worn out!

    #321 3 months ago

    Why does someone need to be ignored if they don't have the same views as you?

    They raised $73,000 in a week! That seems pretty generous of the public.

    This also isn't the only option. Paragraph 8 of his original post says they can borrow more money. I don't see the problem with that. Did they HAVE to build a $10 million dollar new building?

    I'm sure Tim and his crew are all great people and what they do for charities sounds awesome. But people make it sound like they have no options when that does not seem to be the case.

    #322 3 months ago

    This may have been explained already. If so forgive me for asking again, but there are too many comments here for me to read through. So I’m asking what happens with the existing donations if the goal of $200,000 isn’t reached? Does Tim get whatever is donated or is that only if his goal is reached?

    #323 3 months ago
    Quoted from Charlemagne1987:

    So I’m asking what happens with the existing donations if the goal of $200,000 isn’t reached? Does Tim get whatever is donated or is that only if his goal is reached?

    Reaching your goal is not required. With GoFundMe, you keep each and every donation you receive. Your campaign will be able to accept donations even after your goal is reached.

    #324 3 months ago
    Quoted from greenhornet:

    Reaching your goal is not required. With GoFundMe, you keep each and every donation you receive. Your campaign will be able to accept donations even after your goal is reached.

    I'm confident that they will get open. Even if they have to take the proceeds from the go fund me and sell every modern Stern which are easily replaceable and probably for less once the pandemic is over.

    12
    #325 3 months ago

    There are dozens of ways to look at this but bottom line is donation to PHOF isn't like donating to most charities. For example if you donate to the Salvation Army directly that money gets spent right away for their causes and next month they need more money and so on. However investing your donation dollars to something like the PHOF is basically like teaching someone how to fish instead of giving them fish to eat. Once PHOF is up and running and has its debts paid off they will be generating money for charities month after month basically forever. So in the end a $100 donation to PHOF might create $1000 (or more) in donated money over time.

    But beyond that you are donating to help grow this mission as well as to give thousands of people each year a place to play these great old machines in a true arcade environment. A true arcade never had all working machines and machines in most arcades were never perfect. You went in and dropped some quarters into machines that were working and enjoyed those machines. Back in the 1970's & 1980's machines in arcades were far from perfect. From my memory of those arcades you were happy if that pinball you dropped the quarter into worked and even more happy if both flippers worked.

    Is PHOF perfect - NO IT ISN'T - but have they done great work over the years to preserve these machines and raise money for charity? If you answer anything other than yes to that you are missing something. Tim has never claimed to have the "best working machines" he has always said charity first and I really don't see how anyone can say anything bad about him feeling that way.

    PLEASE give what you can to help Tim get "over the top" and get opened on time. Borrowing more money might work but hasn't Tim already done more than his fair share to make this happen? If my memory is correct he has already loaned PHOF over a million dollars and donated most of the machines in the place. Is it really fair to ask him to give even more when just a few dollars from a couple thousand people is all he needs to get over the top? If most of us were in his shoes we would be selling off the collection and retiring! How much do he need to give?

    #326 3 months ago

    ^^^^^^^^
    So much this!

    #327 3 months ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    From his arcades. To his parties at his out buildings at his house in Vegas, to raise money for his dream. To opening the Pinball Hall Of Fame, relocating it. And now building for an even bigger and better future.
    I'd say he's been providing for pinball for over 30 years.
    LTG : )

    Thats all great, but I don't know the guy from Adam, and assume many are in the same situation...my point is being creative goes a long way versus just asking for a hand out

    19
    #328 3 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    but I don't know the guy from Adam,

    Well let me help you. Adam doesn't have glasses. Tim does.

    LTG : )

    Adam (resized).jpgtimarnold (resized).jpg
    -1
    #329 3 months ago

    From what I can tell, Tim has also been receiving some direct donations, bypassing the go fund me page. I have a feeling that he's closer to the $200k goal than is evident to all of us.

    #330 3 months ago

    Just erased a VERY long message.
    Your welcome.
    Send a Donation if you can.
    It will help.
    That's a good thing.

    Message from the Freeeek Kingdom.

    #331 3 months ago
    Quoted from tacshose:

    This thread has really shown me the good and bad of Pinside and has changed my opinion of some members for the positive or negative.

    Sounds kinda like the reason I got off of Facebook.... I was losing respect for too many people I had respect for.

    #332 3 months ago
    Quoted from NightOwl:

    From what I can tell, Tim has also been receiving some direct donations, bypassing the go fund me page. I have a feeling that he's closer to the $200k goal than is evident to all of us.

    He's sold some games and has some for sale I believe.

    I hope he's closer and has a chance.

    LTG : )

    #333 3 months ago

    Maybe instead of outright selling games he could do a raffle? I'd think that would raise more money than selling. Since he's a 503c3 he should be able to do raffles. Or maybe raffle some of the crazy stuff he's had to accumulated running an arcade for decades

    26
    #334 3 months ago

    Here in Nevada the rules on ANY type of gaming are VERY tight. Selling slot machines, even old one requires a complicated and expensive license. Even giving repair help over the phone is technically a felony.

    Raffles all require a temporary license or have an upper limit of a few hundred dollars with no license, but safe harbor if you go over.

    I would also like to point out that all of here give of our time and treasure with NO reward, I do not feel that during a time of declared national emergency with the entertainment business in shreds, it is to much just to ask for a straight up donation.

    #335 3 months ago

    Hey Tim, I forgot to ask you about the membership angle. Plaques on the wall or badges on games or whatnot...

    -23
    #336 3 months ago
    Quoted from timarnold:

    Here in Nevada the rules on ANY type of gaming are VERY tight. Selling slot machines, even old one requires a complicated and expensive license. Even giving repair help over the phone is technically a felony.
    Raffles all require a temporary license or have an upper limit of a few hundred dollars with no license, but safe harbor if you go over.
    I would also like to point out that all of here give of our time and treasure with NO reward, I do not feel that during a time of declared national emergency with the entertainment business in shreds, it is to much just to ask for a straight up donation.

    Are you kidding me? People have lost their jobs, their life savings and are in danger of being evicted from their house. You have a millions in equity and are building a 10 million dollar project and you are playing the national emergency card... go to a bank, sell a machine. Stop begging. Millions of people are in way worse shape than you.

    33
    #337 3 months ago

    ABSOLUTLLY! I agree with you that if people are in trouble financially, DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY to a stupid marble museum.
    If you have some to spare, and you want to help, PLEASE.!
    Also on the above posting I did there is a typo. There is NO safe harbor over the no license amount.

    17
    #338 3 months ago

    Well, I didn't lose my job or suffer any financial hardships, so I donated initially and will donate again after the 30th. I don't think anyone is asking anyone to mortgage their home or sell their kids to help Tim out. Send money if you want, don't if you don't want to. The whining and bitching is getting old.

    #339 3 months ago

    Why won't brother Tom flip you the 200k he's worth around 30 mil

    Tom_Arnold_2000 (resized).jpg
    #340 3 months ago
    Quoted from cliff_clavin:

    Are you kidding me? People have lost their jobs, their life savings and are in danger of being evicted from their house. You have a millions in equity and are building a 10 million dollar project and you are playing the national emergency card... go to a bank, sell a machine. Stop begging. Millions of people are in way worse shape than you.

    He ain’t begging. He is just asking. If people donate that is what they chose to do. You think Timmy’s bind is any worst? Are you living in cave and donating all your stuff? Nope...

    16
    #341 3 months ago

    The delusions of Pinside coming out in spades. Tim is one of the most financially successful and charitable guys in the world of pinball. The PHOF is a gem and it’s shocking how much criticism a Go Fund Me account could cause. Why go out of your way to **** on it? Just don’t donate, simple. I for one really hope the community supports Tim and what he has created.

    #342 3 months ago
    Quoted from fireball2:

    Hey Tim, I forgot to ask you about the membership angle. Plaques on the wall or badges on games or whatnot...

    He technically already has done that at the beginning(https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-hall-of-fame-to-close) my name is on the wall. Maybe timarnold can clarify if he wants to open that original option of being a founder to more people.

    #343 3 months ago

    below a link to tim arnolds seminar video from pinball expo 2018. the most comprehensive and detailed account of the PHOFs move to the strip [1:20]. this is must viewing to fully understand and intelligently discuss the subject. at the time, two years ago, he claims to need around 500K.

    he discusses:

    the dual mandate: keep museum open and donate to charity. millions donated to date.

    the main problem with the 8600 sq ft trop location is space.

    that charitable donations had been on hold for the last 3-4 years while retaining earnings, looking to move to a larger location. [assuming donations have not resumed during the past two years would make this 5-6 years today, with further extensions possible depending on how the new 1.7M in debt is settled].

    his feelings on property ownership and landlords.
    addtl problems and limitations with the trop location.
    why they didnt add a building on trop location.
    negotiating on an 86,000 sq ft KMART building.

    details on the strip lot: acquiring, past valuations, size, positive attributes of the location.

    his meetings with higher-ups at MGM.

    at [25:00] breaks down the finances/numbers of the land purchase, cost of building, the 'car wash guys' offer on the trop property including 21 months free months rent for the PHOF while the strip building is built, how much the bank is ready to lend, and his personal bridge loan.

    negotiating to add 40ft of frontage to the property and shift the lot to the south. this would solve a parking space provision and enable them to increase the building to 35,000 sq ft. at an additional cost of over $2M.

    admits hes taken the project as far as he can by himself and that he needs the pinball community to open their wallets to help, primarily through the purchase of memberships.

    during the Q&A:
    the board member architect on the project is working for free.
    the need for a stronger board.
    the bally sign.
    the future of the PHOF if he dies/becomes incapacitated.
    what became of the liberace museum.
    where the crane game stuffed animals come from.
    admits it will be necessary to design the building and make the place nicer to fit the 'strip' mentality.
    plans for the frontage sign.
    the commando machine guns.

    notable quotes:

    Quoted from Gunnut40:

    He ain’t begging. He is just asking.

    [44:44] "again, im here, besides begging for money to ask for input..."

    [56:22] "financially, we are in great shape." [they are]

    [1:13:54] "if we need to we can go to the bank and borrow money instantly based on the fact that we have equity. i dont like banks and i dont like paying interest. and ive avoided it thus far simply by hoisting the pirate flag saying 'were doing this ourselves, get out of our way'."

    24
    #344 3 months ago

    Fuck me there are some miserable people in this thread. We go to the PHOF every year during Punk Rock Bowling and every single time it's been the best day of the trip. We have zero public arcades over here, so playing all those games in Vegas made me want to have my own machines. Obviously gonna donate. And really hoping the new location can open soon.

    17
    #345 3 months ago

    PHOF is by far the best attraction in Las Vegas, and certainly the cheapest. It's one of my favourite places to go every time I'm in Vegas. Some of the games I own I bought after falling in love playing them at the PHOF. My wife and I have a great time there, and spend the rest of the year talking about when we're going to go back. The new place is going to be insane_, and there's nothing else like it.

    I can't believe all the hate in this thread. If you need to find faults to justify to yourself why you're not donating, then do it, but you don't need to poison this thread with your negative comments.

    I donated last time, and I've donated again this time. Long live the PHOF!

    #346 3 months ago

    A unique venue, a chance to serve.
    Second donation.. full support for this effort.

    #347 3 months ago

    timarnold

    Tim,

    I have a very serious recommendation that could potentially solve ALL the money woes.

    How about selling the naming rights to the PHOF? Say a 5 or 10 year deal? To a Casino? To Amazon? To The Sands Corp.?????. They get to write it off as advertising. Could be a hell of a boost for traffic into the door as well?

    The History Channel Pinball Hall Of Fame? I think you get the idea.

    Jack

    #348 3 months ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    timarnold
    Tim,
    I have a very serious recommendation that could potentially solve ALL the money woes.
    How about selling the naming rights to the PHOF? Say a 5 or 10 year deal? To a Casino? To Amazon? To The Sands Corp.?????. They get to write it off as advertising. Could be a hell of a boost for traffic into the door as well?
    The History Channel Pinball Hall Of Fame? I think you get the idea.
    Jack

    Pinball hall of fame brought to you by snickers.
    SUPREME Pinball hall of fame

    -2
    #349 3 months ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    timarnold
    Tim,
    I have a very serious recommendation that could potentially solve ALL the money woes.
    How about selling the naming rights to the PHOF? Say a 5 or 10 year deal? To a Casino? To Amazon? To The Sands Corp.?????. They get to write it off as advertising. Could be a hell of a boost for traffic into the door as well?
    The History Channel Pinball Hall Of Fame? I think you get the idea.
    Jack

    Makes more sense then begging for money

    #350 3 months ago

    FWIW I donated a smallish amount; I am not sure if they will hit their goal. If they are able to leave this up for long enough they should. Just not sure if they have a few months.

    As everybody has mentioned "if I was in charge, I would be doing X, Y and Z differently. But I am glad someone like Tim exists to do this with his own brand of passion. I don't expect a warm welcome and hugs and kisses if I ever make it to the PHOF, I am just hoping there will be a PHOF to visit 5, 10, and 20 years down the road.

    There are 824 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 17.

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