Stern has been selling games pretty darn good for a few decades now too. Doesn't stop people from shouting half baked ideas at them and complaining about everything .

I feel like this thread is long derailed anyway but I don't think anyone is telling him how to run an arcade. I certainly don't have the time, energy, or ability to do what he does. I am however an arcade customer, and if I'm an arcade owner, I think the people that don't come to my business are the people I would want to understand the view of and listen to. This is what I think rubs people the wrong way. I get change is hard, but when you plug your ears and basically tell people to suck it up and deal with the attitude and broken games, etc. there's not much sympathy to offer in return. Some people find stuff like this and getting scolded by PBR charming or whatever, alot of people just find it confusing and go elsewhere.

Totally agree you can't please everyone, but I don't think the dismissive attitude does any favors here. I think at the end of the day people are just trying to offer their thoughts on what would make them want to come back. You want to run your business your way that's great, but you also have to be prepared to understand that it goes both ways and some people won't like it and find an alternative.

Very well said

We all want PHOF to survive and succeed.

Everyone is resistant to change but taking some constructive criticism can help business owners improve their business model and attract more patrons.

With all due respect to PHOF I feel the current line up of pinball machines and video games at the PHOF need a lot of attention. It is like going to a car dealer to test drive some cars, but half of the cars have the hoods up and are constantly trying to be fixed. While a non profit donating to Salvation Army is very notable, running an operation of this magnitude on a shoestring budget will lead to poor maintenance and a considerable amount of machines in constant disrepair. Many people are willing to overlook lack of maintenance and are simply happy to have a large selection of machines. To me I would rather have quality over quantity. Honestly the best is quantity and quality. When I was at PHOF months back it just seemed really run down to me? I keep thinking why would PHOF move into a 10 million dollar building on the strip and not improve their business model? When Tim said we will not change, I guess that struck a chord with me. I have really high hopes of what PHOF could become, especially in a ten million dollar building located on the Las Vegas strip-the sky is the limit. Now how to cover the cost of a 10 million dollar building located on the strip going forward is the real question. Can they do it with just quarters being pumped into machines?(especially during a pandemic) Will they need to charge an admission fee?(will turn away many) Will they sell enough t-shirts? Or will they need to change their business model and apply for a liquor license, etc.? Also a side note in regards to the comment about introducing liquor to business model and how "a bunch of drunks will be puking all over and trashing games." Really? This is a mainly vintage pinball arcade-it is not Studio 54. Sorry but I am confident if liquor was introduced it would be a non issue. People are not ordering bottles of Grey Goose tableside with their bro's they are ordering craft beer and jack and cokes. I honestly think adding liquor sales will double or triple revenue generation.

Again I am a passionate pin-head and I want PHOF to succeed, if they can survive with business as usual with the new pricy building without changing a thing that would be admirable. I guess I have high hopes of what it could be and that is why I am expressing my opinion. I am not trying to offend anyone, but if nothing really changes moving from Tropicana to the strip it will have me having to make the decision if it is worth my time to visit next time I am in Vegas. Not sure if New York New York still has a decent selection of well maintained pinball machines? Should I go to PHOF to play a few rare games or should I go elsewhere? What makes PHOF special to many is the vast amount of EM's and woodrails. Unfortunately for me(I know I am in the minority) EM's and woodrails do absolutely nothing for me. It may just be that PHOF is not geared towards players like myself?

Moving from the Tropicana location to the new location on the strip is like moving from the Hamburger Stand to Morton's Steakhouse. Do you really want to put the Hamburger stand on the Strip? I want it to be the "Pinball Hall of Fame"-not "The Pinball Hall of Shame." I really feel with some helpful suggestions, donations, and community support that we can make the PHOF legendary and a place everyone wants to visit. The first step is to keep an open mind and adjust accordingly(especially during a 100 year pandemic).

Please let us know of any 700 pinball arcades open 7 days a week when you find them.

You can do the same. According to their site he has 152 games (inclusive of woodrails and EMs - and games that may or may not function). Open 7 days a week though, so you're 50% right, but so are most locations here though where we can play.

If you're trying to prove my point for me by ignoring all the comments and repeating "I won't change" though, well done.

So as an actual arcade owner I am going to offer a contrarian view here that is likely to get me lots of downvotes, but whatever.

There is an old saying I recall “Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one”. The most ridiculously hard thing to do in this world is run a successful small business. Most fail.

You know I can think of 1001 ways to improve my arcade. But guess what ? Most of those ideas while super awesome would drive me further into bankruptcy. I’ve got machines broken on the floor. More than a few lately. You think I am going to go hire a $50-75 an hour person to repair when I can barely make rent each month. Nope.

I’m sorry but until you have actually run a small business, and specifically an arcade, trying to give Tim your business advice is abject worthless. Save your time. Guess what my advice would be: Tim keep doing what you are doing and ignore everyone because you’ve found what works for you and keeps you in business. That’s it, end of story.

I know you all think you could manage his business better than he does. You also think you could coach your hometown football team better. You are wrong. You overestimate your talent. You have no ability to evaluate or manage whatever improvements you think you would make versus the costs incurred and the marginal return on investment. If you have run a business before you at least have heard of that term, but still probably don’t know how to evaluate in the context of running an arcade.

For sure any business can be managed better. For sure some owners are their own worst enemies. Most of those who are have their business fail. Tim hasn’t.

And guess what Tim likely feels about your patronage ? Nothing. Why ? Because you and your feelings as a pinhead are not what actually keeps him in business. It is every businessman or family going on TripAdvisor looking what they can do while in Vegas that keeps him in business. If he spent all his time trying to make you all happy he’d very likely go out of business. Why ? You all are low marginal return in investment, relative to his wider audience.

And let me end with this. Do you think Tim enjoys looking at all his machines with out of order signs or having machines that don’t play well ? If you do you have rocks in your head. No arcade owner unless some corporate entity using it as a tax write off, wants their games playing crappy or filled with out of order signs. It is a necessary evil with most current modes of operation. Hiring people solves one problem and creates many others (payroll, workman’s comp, lawyers, job contracts, etc)

You don’t like his business and the condition of his games, then don’t go. But don’t presume you have a damn clue telling him you know how to run it better and that he is just a stubborn, awful person.

His business has stayed in business and that one fact alone is all that matters. Until you’ve done the same you have no terribly worthwhile advice to give, or very likely anything he hasn’t already heard of or thought about all by himself.

Stepping off of soapbox

I support Tim. Donation made.

So does this sage advice of "staying in your lane" apply to playfield manufacturing too?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cpr-playfield-preorders-are-meaningless?tu=pookycade

Game pricing?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/do-you-ever-wonder-why-bother-giving-pricing-advice-#post-4430341

Pinball manufacturing?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/twip-is-deeproot-the-next-misadventure-or-a-pinball-revolution?tu=pookycade

Just trying to understand when it's acceptable to give feedback as a consumer or not.

Touché.

You think I have some other thought about my own advice above. Uh ... nope. It’s just as worthless. The hypocrisy you speak of is non existent.

You have the right to complain, you have the right to suggest, you have the right to not shop there again, you have the right to go elsewhere, and you have the right to inform others.

And you know what I would honestly tell most of those businesses and posts that you decided you were going to spend your time on to try to use against my position ? Ignore every last damn thing I’ve said. It’s worthless to their business survival.

The easiest solution for you and a few others having this 'PHOF life crisis' is to open your own pinball arcade and run it how you see fit.
In Florida we have 10 or so Pinball/Arcades. Each has done it their own, different way (some sell booze!) and all have survived by smartly sticking to their unique business model from day one. Each model is different enough from the other, and visitors to Florida can find somewhere to play within a 1-2 hour drive no matter where they land in the state.

If you haven't heard it already, Clay interviewed Tim in 2007, and it covers his unique life story over his 50 years in the business from a kid to now. (scroll down to episode 4)
http://www.pinrepair.com/topcast/past.php

Well points for self awareness I guess.

This discussion is pointless anyway. It's turned into people saying "I would like the PHoF more if the games weren't broke all the time" and the other half going "TIM ISN'T GOING TO PERSONALLY MASSAGE YOU AND WASH YOUR CAR AND INSTALL A WOOD FIRED PIZZA OVEN SO STOP ASKING" like the guy calling this a "crisis".

When I go to Vegas I'm there for maybe 2-3 days. It's not like I can casually stroll down the street whenever I want to play games there. I spend money to Uber there and back to my hotel and spend time I could be doing on other things. To get there and have all the games I was looking forward to playing broken is disappointing. If you want to consider that "telling someone how to run a business" then I can't help you overcome that mental wall people are putting up.

I don't feel as though people making "suggestions" is a bad idea but I wish people would realize it is impossible to keep hundreds of machines running 100% of the time regardless of who you are. Most people complaining about PHOF machines being broken or "semi working" are comparing apples & oranges. They are thinking "I want PHOF machines to play like the games in my home collection" (or like new). Arcades were never that way - I have NEVER been to a public arcade that some machines didn't have issues.

I don't want to say where but here in PA about 6 months ago my wife & I stopped by a place of business just to kill a little time and they had an arcade area with about 20 machines in it. I had a couple dollars worth of quarters in my pocket and my wife & I decided to play a few machines we have never played before. (These were classic machines set on quarter play). Anyway between the two of us we dropped a total of 11 quarters into 11 different machines and didn't find one machine that actually worked? Only about 1/2 the machine in the place were turned on and we tried most of them and never even got to play one fully working machine!

When Clay opens his VFW to the public once a year for a couple days they have had all year to get ready for the event and he still needs a staff of people to keep all the machines running for just 3 days. Keeping 400 or 500 hundred vintage pinball machines running 7 days a week all year long is impossible. PLEASE be realistic with your expectations!

HOPEFULLY the new PHOF will have some improvements as far as getting machines repaired faster but instead of complaining about what isn't working try playing some of the hundreds of machines that are working well.

Donate what you can to help Tim get the new place open and give him a few months to see how things all work out in the new location. If things don't improve as far as machines not working maybe some of us can volunteer some time to help get more machines working. Tim has been working for free for years maybe it is time for some of the people complaining to put some free time in also!

Here is the link to donate again: https://gofund.me/37f7e2b2

There are several hundred coming from his home warehouse to the new place.
It's not about 'change', it's about each place doing their own thing and whether it survives or not.
Tim has literally ran arcades for over 40 years, what he does works for him.

His website says he has 152 games.

I don't need them to play like they were just unboxed. I am talking about games totally down or major things not working like flippers not making ramps, not things like a minor switch not registering.

It sounds like the opposite will be true. New higher traffic location with more access for people to drop in. More wear and tear on the games and no plans to change the staffing model.

So are you going to continue to go back routinely like you suggest to us? Did you go fix them for free like you are proposing we do?

That's fine then. Were going in circles. Hopefully it works out in the end.

Opinions are like orgasim’s, all I care about is mine, in fact I don’t even care if you have one.

I keed, I keed,

Agreed. If you get down to Florida post-covid pm me and I will treat you to pinball and beer.

Get me drunk and I'll give you all the hot pinball takes you can handle!

I’ve had the honor of meeting Tim and playing a Joust Tour Site there. Tim was super accommodating.

I’ve also severed on the boards of numerous organization that have conventions in Vegas and then I headed up a World HQ purchase on S. Eastern. Every time I’m in town I send some time at the Pinball Hall of Fame.

I’ll be in Vegas for meetings next week and stopping at HOF.

I will be donating

If I may politely offer a constructive observation-
Most of us including myself consider the Hall of Fame more than an arcade, more than a non profit - it is an Institution, Pinballs main INSTITUTION. It’s pinballs Hall of Fame.

While as a business person I appalled Tim’s donations to Charity, I think what I hear people saying is they want the Hall of Fame to be better.

Does that mean modifying the business model a bit? , most likely it would require modifying the vision statement. Like moving to the strip

If indeed it is our Hall of Fame then this is where manufactures and individuals should donate their resources. The VIPs should have Hall of Fame Inductions and Events there.

If they haven’t already , HOF can also submit for grants in arts and entertainment and also Education - including supporting documentation from manufactures and VIPs.

As an education in my industry I offer this-Further, HOF already has education information on the machines. I suggest taking this a step further and creating HOF online education courses that you take and receive a certificate. It’s really quite easy. These courses would be - becoming a pinball historian. There could be several courses. They would be a stream of income that would cost very little to maintain and add more prestige to HOF as THE source. This technology is a simple website plug in woo commerce and others.

Thanks for all you do Tim
Donation in.

Donation incoming.

In 2014, I took a month off and traveled the country in a 2006 Honda Civic to see every national park I could. We camped every night, and We were on a tight schedule, and really didn’t stay in a single place for more than a night.

Las Vegas wasn’t really on my list, but I made a point to stop for the sole reason to visit PHoF. It was so much fun, we grabbed a room and stayed another day... to play more pinball. I saw Tim wrenching under a game, big head lamp on, and spoke with another volunteer over a game of “Challenger.” The highlight of my trip, and I was fortunate enough to see glacier and Yellowstone.

I’m incredibly nostalgic for those days, and I genuinely couldn’t imagine PHoF not existing.

Donation sent.

https://gofund.me/0ccf1d66

I thought I’d add the go fund me link back in the thread here too.

We all have sources to push the info out. I have placed it on my Facebook page and asked my friends to donate and post to their pages.

Any real arcade should have a Reactor set up near the entrance with the volume cranked up the the maximum!

I've never been, but I've been looking forward to going next time I'm in Vegas. Donated.

Make sure to get out there and support all your local arcades as well! Buy merch, leave tips for the staff, do what you can, or the pinball landscape will be much bleaker on the other side of this.

There’s an untapped unmentioned resource that might help; Perhaps it’s time for some of the charities Tim has donated to all these years to reciprocate if possible and help him out now in his time of need. Not only would it be a nice gesture, it would also be an investment in their best interest. If PHOF doesn’t make it, then the donations flowing to those charities will likely stop.

I think we should focus on helping Tim finish his new building with whatever we can spare. After that, you can give him all the "free" advice you desire or better yet, become a volunteer. I just donated for the second time and remember, this is a tax deductible contribution.

Very well said

Agreed.

In my arcade. After 48 years. If something isn't happening or isn't here. There is a reason.

LTG : )

Typically the charities Tim donated to were dealing with the homeless, which can't afford to do that. When the new building process started I believe charity donations were paused. Once everything is up and running at the new place I'm sure those will start up again.

You just coined your tagline for future video ads...

What about starting a PHOF YouTube channel? Documenting and telling the story of the new building ups and downs, stories about the pins, showing the move, showing repairs, and even just meeting and chatting with patrons. Just documenting everyday life for you is anything but normal to most and people love watching that stuff. The car guys doing it make quite a bit off it from what I understand, and the weirder the topic the more views and money they get.

Donation sent.

There is a guy in London with a different business model. He has 10 machines in a shed behind his house. For $300 a group of eight can rent the place for 3 hours.

He serves drinks and snacks and then gives a talk on the history of pinball before letting them loose.

Seems like there could be more to the Hall of Fame than a simple arcade. Get a board of directors, host award shows, have events and new product launch parties, rent out space for corporate events, sell food and drink.

Why pick a spot with the expensive real estate to provide cheap entertainment?

I can only imagine people's eyes glazing over during the history portion like listening to a pre flight safety briefing At least there are snacks and drinks!

Maybe Imoto Harvey could cover those final move/setup days, but Tim and crew have no time for stuff like that on a regular basis as he just said above. Fixing games is 24/7

People are looking for new experiences. Especially in places that have a steady flow of well-heeled out of towners.

Or you can just cater to the locals looking for cheap entertainment. But then why be right on the strip?

....

Down the street is the Car Museum. Basically a classic car show room as the cars are all for sale. They are housed in one level of the hotel's (I forget which one) parking garage. You pay just to look at the cars and the hotel gets an attraction to bring people through the casino. Win/win.

I vote for classic arcade, like PHoF has always been. Walk in, hit the change machine, then wander around with a pocket full of quarters. Whenever I visit PHoF, it fires up those bits of my brain from all those glorious arcade visits of long ago. I like barcades, but the obnoxious drunks slapping the machines and the nightclub music and the meat-market attitudes....it's a different vibe. PHoF is pure arcade flashback, all coins and concentration.

I don't know how this place is set up but seems like it would be better to partion off more of the public space and rotate none working games to the back.

Customers would be happier with fewer yet working games, me thinks. Plus the rotating variety would keep people coming back.

Because pinball IS cheap entertainment...
Again as Tim JUST said above he doesn't want to mess with anything but fixing games.
He DID say something in the building walkthrough about BIG companies having some sort of events in the center of the place, no other details given.

I donated to this worthy cause. Visiting several years ago was the highlight of that family vacation for me. When I was there a few of the games were broken, it didn't bother me because plenty others were working just fine. Call me weird but even with some broken or out of order it was still cool to get to see all those machines, together in one place. When I attend a car show I'm not permitted to drive the other cars, it's still cool to get to admire them. As I remember if you put your money into a game and it doesn't work someone working there would refund it, can't really ask more than that.

Well Done, Sir!
YOU are the targeted customer base.
People coming to town for conventions/vacations and spending a day at the PHOF.

I wouldn't mind non-working machines displayed museum style with information about the designers/artsist.

They just have to be separated from the working machines. You could even charge an admission to the museum section.

All I ask is you listen to what people have to say, Tim. I completely understand many of the ideas aren't feasible or you just don't have the time to implement them.

I get it. Most of us do.

But please listen. Please don't be that guy who says he's been doing this his entire life and knows all there is to know.

Just keep an open mind.

You have quoted the website number of 152 games several times, but that is not accurate and is likely way out of date or incomplete. I have been there multiple times and there has always been about 215-220 pinball machines. Adding arcade games and other coin-op machines gets it well above 250. I would always do a complete inventory of the games on the floor and then update the pinside website with their current lineup. Just something I enjoyed doing for some reason.

To everyone offering Tim "tips and suggestions" on how to run his organization; take 30 seconds and click on the following link. Just watch from the 36:15 mark to 36:40

That is all....

I think that's really all anyone providing feedback is asking.

Maybe, but it's what's published on their website. I know, I know, "it's been that way forever so don't ask for them to to change it now".

cfh coined it for Tim over eight years ago in the video above at the 28:50 mark.

I work with a lot of structural and civil engineers in my field of work. You’d be SHOCKED to see how much of their plans are literally “copied and pasted” from one set of drawings to the other. It’s incredible. Most times, we won’t notice that there’s an issue literally as the project is being constructed. Wild.

I'm a fan of PHOF and always make sure to visit whenever I'm in Vegas for one reason or another. I don't expect every game to but running 100% of the time and understand the magnitude of trying to keep them in working order.

My only criticism really is if I drop coin into several games and they do not work and request my money back (I'm talking about game-breaking issues, not just a switch here and there) I don't really need to be talked down to like I'm an idiot or I'm trying to scam my way into free games. I've politely brought up issues to Tim and he's been cranky and rude on a couple occasions. That's just my observation / experience though. I'm pretty easy going though so it has never been enough to keep me from going back.. I hope for the best for PHOF and its expansion. It really is a great place and a huge asset to Las Vegas.

I just donated. I've only been to the PHOF once a few years ago and really enjoyed playing all the rare and obscure games, as well as the older EMs.

Good luck Tim! Here's to hoping we can all make it out to Las Vegas soon to see your new space and the aftermath of all the hard work you have put into this massive project.

I think I miss understood Tim's initial post. I guess I read we are in crises and out of money and that is what stuck in my head. I immediately thought of PAPA and other institutes that have had the mis-fortune of not being able to survive in these economic circumstances and thought the PHOF may have to close. Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like PHOF will be fine once they open and it will be business as usual(so please no suggestions) and they just needed some funds to finish the build out of the new building?