Can you share if those roles in the casinos are union?

Earlier in the thread people were spitballing what he could get techs for and what they would need to spend. Your perspective is interesting because not only did you share a specific story and 'price point', but also have experience with similar fields in town. Your story shines some light on expectations for the kind of hires in the market. Thx for sharing.

It's complicated... Some are union and some are not. In most strip casino's, the facilities/engineering department handles repair/maintenance in the arcades, and they are union and make roughly $32-$35/hr. Other casino's have their techs simply as arcade dept employees, which are not union, and they make about 1/2-2/3 what the union guys get... The rate depends on what level of tech they are, and how long they've been there, as they qualify for the minimum 3% annual increase. In both scenario's the arcade has minimum wage kids as "attendants" roaming around for coin jams, redemption ticket refills, etc.
The "techs" that work at Chuck E Cheese, Gameworks, Dave & Busters, etc pay chump change... $12-$14/hr. But those guys are basically "attendants" also. And they usually have a 3rd party company that comes in before opening or after hours to do real service and repairs.

I've been to the PHOF, at the old and new locations, 20 or so times and Tim has never follow me around or "harassed" me and neither has the staff. Other then a bunch of machines being shut down (which is the norm) it's always been a "typical" visit when attending the PHOF which is good in my books but maybe, I'm just not triggered enough or woke enough to get pissed off and leave a bad review or worse, sue the "insensitive old coot".

When I read these sort of posts and reviews, I am left wondering "what did they do" to garner Tim's attention and wrath?

QSS

I do building maintenance for over 50 units in 15 different locations, so I know how hard it can be to keep everything at 100% all the time and what it cost to keep things running smoothly. Plus I can appreciate how hard it is to find good help, and the cost to keep them around, but it can be done. We’re having a hard time getting summer students to do lawn work for $18/hr, I can only imagine the difficulty in working with volunteers.

As to the kids running around, I totally get it, that no one wants a kid to get hurt and that the PHOF get sued over it. (God knows you Americans are a litigious bunch). But… isn’t that what lawyers and insurance are for? I alway plan for the worst and hope for the best; and in a worst case scenario, insurance would be the one bearing the brunt of it. For example, if one of our tenants burn down a building we know that everyone living there is insured.

Maybe install a PA system and play background music interrupted by friendly reminders to play safe and have fun. Following people around and confronting them doesn’t sound like the best solution. I wouldn’t want that kind of stress in my life.

They do this now although with no background music. I generally spend 2-3 hours there and I hear employees reminding kids not to run 5-6 times per visit.

Insurance pays out regardless of the validity of the claim. They do a zero sum calculation on the cost to pay someone to go away vs the cost to fight to summary judgement to beat a frivolous lawsuit.

If it costs $25k to get to summary judgement and the insurance company can make you go away for $10k that’s what they do. Insurance settlements are NOT about actual liability or damages but the cost benefit analysis.

While you may think “well insurance just eats it!!!”, the cost always returns in premiums.

There are no frivolous lawsuit free rides

I think everyone agrees they need full time help. I was largely responding to the lay basically just saying 'pay the man' as the sole reason it's not happening. When you put the real constraints in play people have to accept it's more than just $$ holding efforts back. Simply having a blank check isn't how all problems are solved. And the numbers people were assuming were way off base.

People talked about volunteers.. Tim just outlined how he 'invested' in 3, and none of them are here now. Unfortunately turnover is something that Tim is just going to have to learn to accept. You can understand his frustration - but that's just a fact of life with employees instead of owners. It's not an excuse to abandon seeking staffers.

The lunacy was someone suggesting to allow drop-ins to work on games. Randos in your games, who even if in good intentions, cause you must bigger problems? Yeah, what could possibly go wrong? Break that unobtanium ramp or plastic while cleaning the game, etc.. everyone is a liability and it's something you have to manage. Drop-ins is a horrible idea. Having groups of people you can oversee helps.. but it rings back to the dedication problem... unlike the Banning example which focused on getting ready for key events... places like PHOF have perpetual needs. Tim's trust issues while rooted in truth, are extreme and part of the issue too.

Managing people, recruiting people, tending to their needs too... all takes time and energy. Unfortunately not everyone who is 'good at a job' is necessarily 'good with managing people'. PHOF v3 is obviously too big for their old ways.

There is an obvious disconnect from what people here think are 'issues' vs what Tim does. For example, his storage container issue could be solved with re-arranging the room or paying for off-site storage (or go back to the shed?). Tim would rather just put stuff off to the side in plain sight. Who is right?

One thing is for sure... it's hard to convince someone to change when their traffic is doing as Tim claims.

It's all about Tim....

Its Las Vegas... probably the greatest concentration of Coin Operated MACHINES and various gambling Devices in the World.

There are officially 164 K gambling machines in nevada.
I've only visited a few casino's, I don't remember many.. if any turned off or broken Slots.
Who is this mysterious army of techs that maintain these machines?
If there is one place in the world where there is a surfeit of mechanical repair knowledge its Vegas ? Right ??

Tim ? Do you have an answer ?
That's rhetorical Tim... don't answer .

We know the answer, those tech's get PAID to maintain the Slot Machines, and keep the money flowing.
There have to be hundreds of retired Vegas game Tech's in the area.

It's a Joke that Tim can't find Tech help in Vegas,
Tim doesn't really WANT help.....
Its Tim's place... he gets to be his grumpy self, and rule over his little Kingdom....everyone who doesn't like it gets the bum's rush.

I've enjoyed my few visits to the Tropicana location. And plan to visit the new location.
I wish Tim wasn't a Hard Headed, my way or the highway type...
But that's WHO he is....
I wish he would PAY people but he refuses....
So that's that.
......a flawed Pinball location is better than no location.

P.S. I hate kids too !! Kick em out Tim !

(God knows you Americans are a litigious bunch).

Canadians never sue anyone? Yea right.

Canadians do, but America is worse. It’s not a big secret or opinion, it’s a pretty common fact around here. Here’s just one example with actual numbers comparing USA, uk, and Canada. Spend a couple minutes on google and you’ll find lots about it.

https://abovethelaw.com/2015/06/the-view-from-up-north-whos-more-litigious-canada-or-the-united-states/

Only if you believe everything you read. If it's on the internet it must be true

Not exactly.
I don't think there has been a coin operated slot machine in Vegas for 15 years. Machines now take bills or tickets, no coins.
Slot machines are mostly video slots. There are still mechanical reel slots but they probably make up 10% of slot machines give or take. Slot machines today are basically computers and have near 0 mechanical parts, the Bill/Ticket collector validator is the only mechanical part in most slot machines now.

You basically have 2 types of workers on slot machines, attendants and techs. Attendants pay out jackpots, help you get a stuck voucher or bill, reboot a slot machine that is acting up, basic minimal troubleshooting that doesn't require much training. There are tons of attendants, if there is an issue beyond this, they call a "tech", but still the work the tech does isn't very mechanical, it is technical/computer related, reseating computer connectors/cables etc... When all that fails, they do a full factory reset or flash the rom.

I do agree that there probably are more mechanical techs in Vegas then other locations in the US, somebody still has to fix the few existing reel slots, but I imagine many with that knowledge are towards the end of their careers and there are less and less as the skillset isn't needed.
It probably pays more and is easier to be a slot tech then a pinball tech, there may be people with the skills but they have to want to do pinball repair also.

I'm just going to add my $0.02 here...

Tim needs to "get with the times" when it comes to labor... the old days are long gone. My brother runs a big lawn care service, and let me tell you, for the past 2 years (probably longer) he has had a hard time hiring anyone to do anything that requires labor and hard work for any decent/reasonable money! The days of picking someone up at a labor service/person in need of pocket cash is LONG GONE. I doubt it will ever be the way it used to be. And he (my brother) pays a very fair rate (and cash to those that just want to work a day or a week and make an honest wad).

There's nothing special about working around Pinball machines, and if anything, it requires more skill and patience to do that kind of work. Prices are up on EVERYTHING, rent is way up, the economy "is what it is". Unless he figures a way to actually pay techs, his old plan will continue to fail him and the Pinball hall of fame.

I know it's tough getting past the old thinking on how you pay people, I saw my brother almost lose his business.. But it's step up and do it or sink the ship....

Not accurate in my opinion... Looking over the tax returns, everything seems to be going exactly according to plan for him.

Most Pinside people that share your attitudes in this thread regarding how "badly things are run there" really don't understand the true goals and seem to only care about their own self fulfilling hopes and dreams for the location and how they could do it better.

Well, there is absolutely nothing standing in your way or, anyone else's way here. If you or someone else can do it better in Vegas, look for the land and open up your own pinball thing and put a sign in front of it that says "Jaded pinball attitudes are not allowed here, also... we have pinball and will babysit your kids!"

One thing I have learned the hard way in life is that if someone doesn't want help, then there is no reason to offer it. No matter how much people want it to be, the PHOF is not a Pinside problem.

While I do agree on your observations regarding the current labor force, a business owner can run things as great or poorly as they see fit, it's their choice.

I totally agree; however I don't think anything will ever change, because it's not a requirement to stay in business. He doesn't have to service any debt, and basically owns everything outright (games, building, land, signage, etc). The only costs he has are operational (insurance, legal, utilities, parts, contractors, etc). I mean does he pay himself? Other partners? How much does he spend on NIB games? How much does he actually give to charities? Per his own comments It sounds like he's had a banner year so it will be interesting to see where all the money goes? Normally I wouldn't care, but when a guy basically begs the community for 6 figures it opens up a lot of questions.

Agree. Someone gets it!

It’s not like you need to find a wizard to fix pinball machines. Anyone that can fix their own car and build their own pc has enough knowledge and transferable skills to fix a pinball machine. If you offered to pay as much as a top automotive tech gets paid, then I’m willing to bet you’d find multiple people. Then you could sift through applicants and find the one that will need the least amount of additional training.

Having students volunteer as the backbone of a multi million dollar operation doesn’t seem like a good plan for long term success. But it seems like Tim doesn’t worry about long term success when he makes comments like, when this project comes to an end we’re going to sell it all.

From an outside perspective it looks like the plan is to buy new machines, maintain them as minimally as possible but ensure the coin drop works. Then as they age and break in more substantial ways just move the machine down the line toward the back of the building. As long as the coin drop works, who cares, most tourist don’t know enough about pinball and we can churn through customers at a phenomenal rate on the strip. Tourists just keep coming. Then if the word gets out that most of the games are no longer functioning well enough to draw in coins; just sell it all at auction and wipe your hands clean and walk away.

Am I missing something?

I agree

Not in my opinion. Seems accurate except maybe for the last sentence. I mean, I would retire to Vegas and run it when I'm 55ish if Tim's living will states it must be kept a 100% non profit entity.

I know many others that would agree to do it as well so, maybe there is hope that someone would actually buy it all and continue on with it when auctioned off... maybe not.

This is the reason this thread even exists. Thread created by owner begging for money, and then gets feedback on the establishment. Don't ask for money if you don't want opinions.

Yes! Tim is going to do things his way. Period.

Spot on absolutely correct. The alternate definition of insanity is doing something different when the approach you have is working. State of the machines has been a complaint I have seen for at least 6 years for PHOF. Their revenue apparently grew not diminished over than time. Why would you do something, anything different under those circumstances ? We can hand wring all we want here about how we wish for better. It does not matter what we think. Tim runs his business as he wants, it works for him, it works for his customers (and pinsiders might be 1% of his customers at best). I have better playing pins at my arcade but I do not have anywhere close to the business he has there. Tim wins.

I can see why it would be so difficult to get help to service machines..... I mean, where can you get really good formalized training to repair pins?
I'd love to take some classes and really understand everything there is to know about machines, but it doesn't exist.

If there was a (real) certification for all the different eras of pin, then someone could walk in and Tim (or anyone else) could trust the tech.

Still a couple older casinos on Fremont St. that still have coin op slots and video poker. But agree overall Veges is mostly coin free now.

So I was really motivated by this and went into the bank for a business loan.

Naturally the conversation led to what the business was and when I said I’d like to do is open an arcade with free admission and all revenue would be strictly from the quarters patrons put in the games and maybe 0.001% from selling warm cans of coke for people to drink while they play, the banker chuckled and said ok, but I made it also clear that at any given moment 30-50% of the games will be either off or not play as they are advertised to play.

Of course banker said “well how do you plan on paying the loan back and also keep the facilities maintained and utilities paid, or even pay your assumed staff with half the real estate occupied by broken games???”

I just said “that’s the big question isn’t it?” then I leaned in real close and said, “it’s my business I’ll run it how I want.” And gave him a wink.

The bank denied my loan…

Thanks for the chortle!

You should try a credit union.

I suspect this is why Tim's operation has always been significantly funded by revenue, self-financing and solicited donations.
People forget or don't realize that Tim is personally quite wealthy, and he has tremendous assets.

I’m not justifying anyones behavior but basically if you own a property or have a business that’s open to the public you might as well wear a shirt with a bullseye on it. There are many people out there looking for a payday.

My buddy’s friend manages a supermarket. They installed a robot that patrols all the isles looking for items on the floor due to the large number of slip and fall lawsuits.

Immediately upon installing the robot, they started receiving lawsuits from people claiming mental anguish. The robot follows me thru the store. It invaded my personal space and now it haunts my dreams!
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Did you read what Tim wrote about the gofundme?

Tim already admitted the gofundme was a way to consolidate all the random offers for help. People dropping comments like ‘id love to contribute…’ ‘how can we help..’ ‘i’d buy a shirt to help…’ etc. instead of the haphazard disjointed stuff someone convinced him to just do a gofundme and take online contributions.

It was a put-up-or-shutup kind of move. You wanna help? Here’s the simple way… when we are up against some overruns as we finish the project.

It’s only begging if you look at everyone running a tip jar or patreon or whatever is begging.
Basically it was no different than before except a nice consolidation which made for a great end push for construction.

The drama about running out is more about show and purpose. Nice incentive to motivate people’s timing.

He should just keep a venmo qr code or something up to collect donations and tips now.

I would have a blast going to the grocery store if they had robots there to prank on.

It looks like a toy plush guitar case.

And a Sigma Derby horse race community gaming machine at The D.

I love that thing!

Sorry the pic is a toy they sell. I took that pic and sent a text to the manager I mentioned that said “ that F’n robot haunts my G. damn dreams and your company has the nerve to sell plush toys of it!” I thought it was hilarious. He didn’t think so.

The real robot is 5’ tall. It just roams the store and stops if you come within 2 ft of it. If it finds something on the ground it broadcasts clean up on whatever isle it’s on over the store intercom until a employee or customer picks up the item.

A06C74E7-1674-4652-97BF-A32CD8B36436 (resized).jpeg

Where did it say when you donate some money that you get to complain about how it’s used? Or, are we just 3rd party, non donator complaining now? If people knowingly donate to someone asking for $ where over a million $ in coin drop happens yearly, don’t blame the guy begging, blame those that donate.

Yeah, none of that happened…. You think that Tim uses a bank to fund the property/museum yearly? Possibly, but I doubt he would get any $ with zero collateral…. Maybe when the Tropicana location was new. A big maybe.

I think you are confusing the relationship between imaginary banks and a Las Vegas coin drop nonprofit. They don’t play by the same rules for obvious reasons. [Review tax return above.]

Given the current state of interest rates, if you really plan to start a business, you should probably start saving money and figure out clever ways to spend less of it. Maybe in 10 years you can realize your dreams too.

That's crazy. Then again, I see them around ASU delivering food.

PHOF could use some robot techs.

Just don't program some ED-209 shit just because you hate children, Tim.

This is not exactly the way I had envisioned robots taking over and replacing humans. It needs missile launchers and guns attached to it.

"Everyone relax. The robot is calling the manager."

How does it function during a crisis situation?

The robot reminds me of OOglies.

That blender was savage.

Lol yep. That’s the best one for sure.

Maybe it has a taser or gun built into it that the manager can only operate? I assume there’s a camera and microphone on it. All I know is every trip that I make to the Supermarket it seems to get I’m my way at least once and I mumble “get the F out of my way you stupid robot! “

It’s only the beginning of what’s sure to be coming in the not so distant future! The Chinese already have the technology. Search Chinese drone robot military dog. Amazing but very scary.

If PHOF got a robot like Marty someone could operate it remotely and correct/yell at the misbehaving adults and children. Who is going to argue with a robot?

Sounds like you guys need old glory insurance.

Apologies if this has been posted already.

No apologies nessecary, good sir.

This is exactly why I keep stocked up on AP ammo.
Mock me now, but good luck stopping the dreaded robots with normal bullets.

I will pass on Chinese armed drones and robot dogs.