(Topic ID: 343117)

Pinball Hall of Fame is a joke.

By Squeakman

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 20 days ago by bob_e
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    -3
    #401 10 months ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    I’m mad about this car wash up the street. Every time I go there the water pressure just can’t get all the bird droppings off my car. I wish there was a car washing forum I could go complain on but instead I will just throw it into this great thread. I’m sure everyone will see my concerns and feel my frustrations and will avoid the place now. It’s too bad I can’t actually make a real difference regarding the situation… tourists and locals don’t seem to be listening. The place is still always packed with cars trying to clean them…. I can’t possibly understand why so many others support my same frustrations with this place yet, it still continues to thrive, making money. I should probably tell the owner that I will repair his stuff for free since I’m good at things. I’m sure he will let me, since I’m really good at things. That will solve all my-er I mean “his” problems and everyone will live happily ever after.

    Wrong thread. Start your own in OT.

    #402 10 months ago
    Quoted from hypnotoad:

    I'm slightly offended by that remark.

    his comment is even more funny now, ty!

    #403 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    No, I'm referring more to the drama queens.

    Vegas was literally built and exists to "give you something to do." If the FREE Pinball Hall of fame lets you down, there's about 5,000 other "things to do" there, beyond the ridiculous 70s idea that vegas is nothing more than "gambling and hookers."

    No one has said "I spent all this money to go to Vegas and PBHOF and Tim ruined my vacation!!!". People are just disappointed in its current state. Name calling isn't required or helpful.

    I admit, the "gambling and escorts" comment was unnecessarily reductive, I apologize, but my point is I have no desire to see the Strip again, and the Strip is the main reason most people go to Vegas. There isn't enough there, for me, beyond the Strip to bother. PHOF in its new location could've been the draw to get me to go to Vegas again as I haven't been there in a decade, but sounds like it isn't worth the effort. No, it wouldn't have been the *only* thing I'd do if I went, but would've been the main driver behind making the trip in the first place. If PHOF is a mess then that saves me time and cash.

    YMMV.

    #404 10 months ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    Wrong thread. Start your own in OT.

    I hope Snyder does! I want to hear more about the carwash Hall of fame with 500 carwash bays (but 396 of them have broken water lines )

    #405 10 months ago
    Quoted from mrm_4:

    I hope Snyder does! I want to hear more about the carwash Hall of fame with 500 carwash bays (but 396 of them have broken water lines )

    Blobert also got into the carwash business. Maybe that was the problem.

    13
    #406 10 months ago

    I don't need to read this thread.
    I started one of these threads about 6 years ago after a visit to their old location.

    The PHOF business model is massively flawed - has been since day one.
    The staff is not good.
    The sign should read PINBALL GRAVEYARD.

    Such a shame.
    Place could be great, but it would take a person like Kevin from the old PAPA, with the financial means and the deep desire to make a pinball place worth travelling to.

    #407 10 months ago
    Quoted from EaglePin:

    I guess it depends on how you define "success". If you just mean bringing in money, then yes PHOF is probably successful.
    But for a place calling itself the Pinball Hall of Fame, I'd hope it would also want to be a good representative of pinball where people walk out thinking something like "Wow! Those machines were cool and pinball is fun!!!" and putting a good image of pinball in people's minds.
    Otherwise it should just be called Tim's Arcade.
    The name Pinball Hall of Fame is selected carefully to attract people. I think it should try to meet that expectation by striving to be a place where casual/inexperienced players will have a good experience playing a machine so they continue to be interested in playing pinball instead of walking away thinking pinball machines are often broken and not working right.

    This pretty much hits the nail perfectly on the head. Thank you.

    #408 10 months ago
    Quoted from ejg10532626:

    I don't need to read this thread.
    I started one of these threads about 6 years ago after a visit to their old location.
    The PHOF business model is massively flawed - has been since day one.
    The staff is not good.
    The sign should read PINBALL GRAVEYARD.
    Such a shame.
    Place could be great, but it would take a person like Kevin from the old PAPA, with the financial means and the deep desire to make a pinball place worth travelling to.

    Unfortunate, but accurate....I think when this story ends the owner will be laughing his way all the way to the bank

    #409 10 months ago
    Quoted from Squeakman:

    The”BIG” question is did Elvis marry the two of you?

    Yes, we got married by Elvis. It was a great experience. Not for everyone but a good fit for the two of us.

    28
    #410 10 months ago

    PHOF website lists 410 games and states:

    "All machines are available for play, so not only can you see them, you can actually play your old favorites. The pinball machines are all restored to like-new playing condition..."

    Similar wording was stated at the old location which inspired me to fly to Vegas to play the old games. Very disappointed then to find most of the games I wanted to play out of service. Worse in the new location.

    Rather than stating "all machines are available for play" it should state "some of these machines are available for play.''

    16
    #411 10 months ago
    Quoted from JethroP:

    PHOF website lists 410 games and states:
    "All machines are available for play, so not only can you see them, you can actually play your old favorites. The pinball machines are all restored to like-new playing condition..."
    Similar wording was stated at the old location which inspired me to fly to Vegas to play the old games. Very disappointed then to find most of the games I wanted to play out of service. Worse in the new location.
    Rather than stating "all machines are available for play" it should state "some of these machines are available for play.''

    I'm not sure which is worse, claiming they're all available for play, or claiming they're restored to like new playing condition. Because at least the last time I went there, they most certainly were not. I've picked up restoration projects that were in better shape.

    #412 10 months ago
    Quoted from ejg10532626:

    I started one of these threads about 6 years ago

    And not much has changed...

    #413 10 months ago

    Are we really not the target audience for PHOF? This sentiment I keep hearing truly saddens me.

    If I had to make quick assessment of issues that might be real at the place, I would start there.

    Dedicated pinball minions do not follow like that. They know they ARE the target audience and go elsewhere. Imo.

    (I’ve seen this and I know this to be true in my pinball world).

    Not trying to offend anyone. It is what it is. I love pinball and pinball saved my life.

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    #414 10 months ago
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    #415 10 months ago


    House of blues Tesla in Vegas. Early October it ends.
    Love is all around you.

    #416 10 months ago

    We are the audience, but the condition of the machines has made it that folks like to say the opposite and think that the general public give a crap about the history of these classic machines. It's not a place for competitive players who demand everything be in working tip top shape simply put.

    19
    #417 10 months ago
    Quoted from JethroP:

    "All machines are available for play, so not only can you see them, you can actually play your old favorites. The pinball machines are all restored to like-new playing condition..."

    Sounds like false advertising at best and down right deception at worst.

    Quoted from PanzerKraken:

    We are the audience, but the condition of the machines has made it that folks like to say the opposite and think that the general public give a crap about the history of these classic machines. It's not a place for competitive players who demand everything be in working tip top shape simply put.

    Yeah this “not for the fans” lie is about the worst smelling bullshit of the whole story. Name one other “hall of fame” that’s not for the fans of that thing…. I’d wait, but I know you (the rhetorical “you”, not directed at anyone) can’t name one; and that’s because it’s a bullshit lie. A hall of fame should be for the most die-hard fans

    #418 10 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Sounds like false advertising at best and down right deception at worst.

    Yeah this “not for the fans” lie is about the worst smelling bullshit of the whole story. Name one other “hall of fame” that’s not for the fans of that thing…. I’d wait, but I know you (the rhetorical “you”, not directed at anyone) can’t name one; and that’s because it’s a bullshit lie. A hall of fame should be for the most die-hard fans

    Spot on.

    There's a lot to appreciate about this thread, now 418 posts and nearly 10 pages long. I appreciate the OP trying to bring some issues to light. I appreciate Tim stopping in to explain himself and his personal reasons why PHOH isn't living up to its potential. I appreciate those who criticize Tim/PHOH for having the money to improve the machines but failing to do so on a consistent and sustained basis. I even appreciate the sentiment that there are other things to do in Vegas so why bitch and moan about PHOH not being the best pinball hall in America. But mostly I appreciate the volunteer techs who came on here to try and rally to the cause. THAT'S an example of why this site is so important and can be put to such good use. I wish I possessed the skills to help out at the PHOH when we go out there each year. Maybe in time I will. But for now, I gotta amplify what Luckydogg420 just said and point out that the PHOH is a non-profit institution. That means it enjoys a tax exempt status because it performs a public good.

    In this case, that "good" is supposed to be a hall of fame for pinball machines, an American pastime with a rich history that reflects cultural influences and trends. If there were no machines in there at all we could say the PHOH is a scam. But it has machines. People can look at them and play them. The problem is we expect more than what it currently offers. I wouldn't call PHOH a "joke" as the OP claims. My family and I enjoy all our visits there. But I agree that in the marketplace of pinball arcades a lot of FOR-PROFIT machines are being maintained much better than these non-profit machines. That isn't right. The quality of services offered by a non-profit should either be lower cost or of better quality than for-profit competitors. And neither is always true of the PHOH.

    The PHOH has a board of directors (BoD). The principal responsibility of the BoD is to hire, evaluate and fire the executive director (Tim). It sure looks like a change in leadership is needed.

    #419 10 months ago
    Quoted from Nicholastree: The PHOH has a board of directors (BoD). The principal responsibility of the BoD is to hire, evaluate and fire the executive director (Tim). It sure looks like a change in leadership is needed.

    #420 10 months ago
    Quoted from JethroP:

    We have decided to sell memberships in the Las Vegas Pinball Collectors Club. Basic membership will be 50 dollars, which will get you a shirt and a SMALL LISTING on the Pinball Hall of Fame WALL OF FAME

    I never even got my T-shirt...

    Robert

    #421 10 months ago

    What is "PHOH"?

    19
    #422 10 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    What is "PHOH"?

    Pinball Hall of Half the games are turned on and half of the others don’t work?

    -9
    #423 10 months ago

    This is getting old. Bitching about the place. Everyone knows what it is. And if you don’t, here it is: tourist attraction. The place is pretty busy with the tourists who come in for an hour or two and drop a few bucks. This is not a pinball Mecca for enthusiasts. The tourists don’t care about the condition of the game or how many
    are not playable.

    The place takes in a lot of cash. EOS.

    #424 10 months ago
    Quoted from jj44114:

    This is not a pinball Mecca for enthusiasts

    If it's a "Hall of Fame", then it is a Mecca for enthusiasts." Change the name. And while you're at it, quit the false and deceptive advertising! Someone could decide to sue for the costs of traveling there to play all those games! Add that to their legal battles.

    #425 10 months ago

    It’s only a name and he’s got it. No chance that will ever change.

    #426 10 months ago

    Guys you are distracting tim from fixing games!

    #427 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Are people really planning Vegas vacations around the PBHOF?!
    Last I checked there's plenty of shit to do in Vegas that should salve your disappointment at the hall of fame.

    Uhhh….F no. I ain’t going to Vegas to play pinball FFS.

    People want to go check out some older games they have never seen?

    Ok. I’d be doing the Clark Griswold “ok kids we seen enough let’s go” after 10 min

    IF they kept it up maybe AND IF you could drink adult beverages then maybe but I get why that would be a potential disaster.

    So hell no to pinball in Vegas

    #428 10 months ago
    Quoted from Squeakman:

    Pinball Hall of Half the games are turned on and half of the others don’t work?

    Ok that made me laugh

    18
    #429 10 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    What is "PHOH"?

    Pinball House of Horrors.

    #430 10 months ago
    Quoted from Nicholastree:

    The PHOH has a board of directors (BoD). The principal responsibility of the BoD is to hire, evaluate and fire the executive director (Tim). It sure looks like a change in leadership is needed

    The board isn't really independent - so you're basically citing a standard that is correct but never going to play out.

    #431 10 months ago

    I never saw anyone question or criticize this, but I thought it was odd when Tim had that final fundraising push, and they needed half a million or the entire new location was in jeopardy, supposedly. Then not much later, we are treated to the fantabulous new retro-look sign by the road, cost: $500,000.00...

    Or am I missing something? I imagine perhaps they were already on the hook for the sign, probably had signed a contract, but I thought the timing was interesting.

    #432 10 months ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    No one has said "I spent all this money to go to Vegas and PBHOF and Tim ruined my vacation!!!". People are just disappointed in its current state. Name calling isn't required or helpful.
    I admit, the "gambling and escorts" comment was unnecessarily reductive, I apologize, but my point is I have no desire to see the Strip again, and the Strip is the main reason most people go to Vegas. There isn't enough there, for me, beyond the Strip to bother. PHOF in its new location could've been the draw to get me to go to Vegas again as I haven't been there in a decade, but sounds like it isn't worth the effort. No, it wouldn't have been the *only* thing I'd do if I went, but would've been the main driver behind making the trip in the first place. If PHOF is a mess then that saves me time and cash.
    YMMV.

    You would find the strip hugely disappointing now. Seems like the majority of the wide vistas in front of the casinos have been wiped out with a series of road front strip malls for unique and exciting culinary delights like fast food franchises.

    #433 10 months ago

    There was a time when the strip was made of scaffolding.

    las vegas boulevard (resized).pnglas vegas boulevard (resized).png
    15
    #434 10 months ago
    Quoted from JethroP:

    PHOF website lists 410 games and states:
    "All machines are available for play, so not only can you see them, you can actually play your old favorites. The pinball machines are all restored to like-new playing condition..."
    Similar wording was stated at the old location which inspired me to fly to Vegas to play the old games. Very disappointed then to find most of the games I wanted to play out of service. Worse in the new location.
    Rather than stating "all machines are available for play" it should state "some of these machines are available for play.''

    Found this on the website too:
    "The PHoF is grounded by a quality-for-quality's-sake, Zen-and-the-art-of-pinball-maintenance philosophy. The machines here all *work*, and they deliver what they promise - fun. The club members make sure of this, often clad in a carpenter's apron and strung in wire. The Pinball Hall of Fame's reputation is on the line, and it's causing a stir among 'pinheads' worldwide."
    "The best thing about the Pinball Hall of Fame is their complete lack of a 'profit' mindset. It's about the games and charity, and not about making money. Tim explains, 'we just don't care that this or that game isn't making any money. The minute we start becoming professional, it's all gonna be about the dollars and it's not gonna be about the games. I mean like the kind of things we do to maintain these games - we change the rubber rings more often than we have to. We replace light bulbs the minute they burn out. That doesn't make any economic sense. If we were professional, we'd let things slide a little. There's no real economic reason for this to exist, or capitalism would've already built it.'"
    "Forget about public relations, marketing, uniforms, or even a sign outside. 'If the games play, the people will come, quarters at the ready. There's stuff here that hasn't been seen since my mom was a kid. And it's all up here, and it's playable.'"

    Ouch

    #435 10 months ago

    Talk about being disconnected from reality!

    That last bit is a clue that they haven't updated that text since before they got a sign at the old location even!

    10
    #436 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Uhhh….F no. I ain’t going to Vegas to play pinball FFS.
    People want to go check out some older games they have never seen?
    Ok. I’d be doing the Clark Griswold “ok kids we seen enough let’s go” after 10 min
    IF they kept it up maybe AND IF you could drink adult beverages then maybe but I get why that would be a potential disaster.
    So hell no to pinball in Vegas

    ...and yet, there are a bunch of threads like "Pinball in Iceland?" and others asking where people can play when they're travelling. That always amazes me...if you're going to someplace like Iceland, enjoy Iceland and leave the pinball for when you get back to your boring home.

    #437 10 months ago

    My two nickels…

    I visited PHOH Nov 2019 in the old building.

    Spent two hours there and could have spent more time, but others were in a hurry.

    The multilevel Circus was up and running, working well- really enjoyed that.

    Other more modern games- hit or miss. Stern IJ worked, but had some serious flipper issues. Shrek was somewhat the same. I have a BM 66 at home. The game there was trashed- not clean, flippers not working correctly, and extremely unlevel.

    Older EM games- hit or miss.

    The volunteer crew was there and seemed hurried and overworked.

    So my experience turned into a scavenger hunt- looking for those occasional jewels. Fortunately there were so many games to explore. I really enjoyed that.

    Recently I had the opportunity to play the large Ann Arbor VFW collection- $81 for one day- substantially more than PHOH. The collection was amazing and there was a very active volunteer crew, who were quite busy. Each machine had a unique QR code that you could scan and report any problem via your phone. Within a minute someone was there. Obviously, this venue was designed for diehard pinball fans.

    By the way, there was a nearby pinball arcade that had a big Lebowski as well as the relatively new godfather game. Flat rate of around $20 for all night free play. Many other great pinball games as well as arcades for a very good price. The vast majority of the games worked very well, and it was obvious that the owner spent a lot of maintenance $ and time on the collection. Place had leagues as well. But even then, some machines had issues. Overall, the FreePlay environment and the wonderful venue were a lot of fun.

    So one extreme to the other. Pinball is hard. Talk to any designer or owner operator. Or player.

    Would I go to Vegas just to visit the pinball Hall of Fame? No, I would not. However, if I was in Vegas, I would definitely spend a couple of hours and go back for a visit.

    #438 10 months ago

    Let's be honest, it is a tourist trap.

    A genuine PHoF would be in Chicago. Die-hard fans could visit, take factory tours etc and make it a true pinball fanatics vacation. It would never do as well as Vegas but that is why it should be non-profit, to keep the history alive.

    #439 10 months ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Let's be honest, it is a tourist trap.
    A genuine PHoF would be in Chicago. Die-hard fans could visit, take factory tours etc and make it a true pinball fanatics vacation. It would never do as well as Vegas but that is why it should be non-profit, to keep the history alive.

    In the DC area a few years ago we had a pinball museum. It didn't last long due to lack of public interest and it was very expensive to operate. So, maybe Chicago would be a better location, especially if it had backing from Stern, CGC, etc. But it's very difficult to keep these things going.

    #440 10 months ago
    Quoted from jj44114:

    The tourists don’t care about the condition of the game or how many are not playable.

    The reasoning that PHOF is only for tourists who don't care if the games aren't working doesn't hold up. Go read the reviews (tripadvisor, google, yelp, etc.) and you'll find plenty of reviews from non-pinheads that mention the over-abundance of nonworking games.

    #441 10 months ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    ...and yet, there are a bunch of threads like "Pinball in Iceland?" and others asking where people can play when they're travelling. That always amazes me...if you're going to someplace like Iceland, enjoy Iceland and leave the pinball for when you get back to your boring home.

    Vacationers generally go to Vegas for three things, gambling, food and entertainment. For some people pinball IS one of their favorite forms of entertainment. I would think that would be too hard for a pinsider to understand.

    While my vacations don't generally revolve around pinball, I do sometimes look for pinball places to enjoy during my "downtime" in those locations.

    Also, not everyone has access to a lot of games in their hometown so finding a place to play pinball on a vacation is plus.

    FWIW, I never sought out pinball while in Iceland, New York City or Germany but I did when I went to Vegas and Portland.

    #442 10 months ago

    Pinball is (should be) fun. I can hear the sound of this place sucking the fun out of pinball from 1600 miles away. Not only will I not be going, I seriously regret making a donation back in the day.

    19
    #443 10 months ago
    Quoted from DanQverymuch:

    I never saw anyone question or criticize this, but I thought it was odd when Tim had that final fundraising push, and they needed half a million or the entire new location was in jeopardy, supposedly. Then not much later, we are treated to the fantabulous new retro-look sign by the road, cost: $500,000.00...
    Or am I missing something? I imagine perhaps they were already on the hook for the sign, probably had signed a contract, but I thought the timing was interesting.

    Oh it was discussed in a thread a few years ago....like I said earlier the guy is laughing all the way to the bank...I mean who is sits on $10+M in assets yet begs the community for free $....people want to buy into his BS than go ahead and donate away...

    #444 10 months ago
    Quoted from Beechwood:

    Let's be honest, it is a tourist trap.
    A genuine PHoF would be in Chicago. Die-hard fans could visit, take factory tours etc and make it a true pinball fanatics vacation. It would never do as well as Vegas but that is why it should be non-profit, to keep the history alive.

    I think it’s interesting when people say this because I’ve always felt the exact opposite ha.

    The PHOF is filled with slow (I don’t mean bad) EMs and (in theory) rare games you don’t get to see all the time. Does the general public really give a shit that they have some EM game they only made 100 of or a Pinball Circus? I’d wager if you’re just a casual pinball fan a row of Sterns with recognizable themes and JJP games with big screens and crazy lights are what you would care about and want to spend your time with instead of some rare wedge head.

    #445 10 months ago
    Quoted from grantopia:

    I’d wager if you’re just a casual pinball fan a row of Sterns with recognizable themes and JJP games with big screens and crazy lights are what you would care about and want to spend your time with instead of some rare wedge head.

    That's been my experience. Every time I've visited, the modern games are swamped by casual players, but I have my pick of rare classics. Which is exactly how I like it. I didn't go there to play Godzilla.

    #446 10 months ago
    Quoted from Knxwledge:

    Found this on the website too:
    "The PHoF is grounded by a quality-for-quality's-sake, Zen-and-the-art-of-pinball-maintenance philosophy. The machines here all *work*, and they deliver what they promise - fun. The club members make sure of this, often clad in a carpenter's apron and strung in wire. The Pinball Hall of Fame's reputation is on the line, and it's causing a stir among 'pinheads' worldwide."
    "The best thing about the Pinball Hall of Fame is their complete lack of a 'profit' mindset. It's about the games and charity, and not about making money. Tim explains, 'we just don't care that this or that game isn't making any money. The minute we start becoming professional, it's all gonna be about the dollars and it's not gonna be about the games. I mean like the kind of things we do to maintain these games - we change the rubber rings more often than we have to. We replace light bulbs the minute they burn out. That doesn't make any economic sense. If we were professional, we'd let things slide a little. There's no real economic reason for this to exist, or capitalism would've already built it.'"
    "Forget about public relations, marketing, uniforms, or even a sign outside. 'If the games play, the people will come, quarters at the ready. There's stuff here that hasn't been seen since my mom was a kid. And it's all up here, and it's playable.'"
    Ouch

    Total. Bullshit.

    #447 10 months ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I mean who is sits on $10+M in assets yet begs the community for free $....

    Anytime a sports team owner wants a new stadium/arena and wants the state, city and tax payers of said state to pay for it.

    #448 10 months ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    for when you get back to your boring home.

    Ain't boring when Colson is at Casa De Boob.

    LTG : )

    #449 10 months ago
    Quoted from RyanStl:

    Blobert also got into the carwash business. Maybe that was the problem.

    What am I missing on the car wash business ? How did this become a thing ? Are the margins like 100% or is it a money laundering scheme nationalized. Every week it seems a new car wash place is popping up at the corner of some intersection. Even the car wash that has been around for 15 years in my town just totally demolished their place to build a shinier new one in its place. I mean why not a dry cleaner or a new gas station or a subway shop on every corner ? Or maybe we did all those already.

    #450 10 months ago
    Quoted from gjm:

    Anytime a sports team owner wants a new stadium/arena and wants the state, city and tax payers of said state to pay for it.

    Whats your point? So you're saying PHOF draws customers from outside the area, and adds millions of dollars to the local economy? comparing an NFL, MLB, or NHL stadium to the PHOF isn't even close

    There are 2,284 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 46.

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