It doesn't have to be, and isn't, an either/or situation here. It's more than likely true that some people get legitimately run out of the place. It's also extremely likely that reactions by the staff like in the video are more often than not total overreactions.

Mindlessly defending TA and his staff is as ridiculous as Mindlessly claiming nobody is screwing up in there.

Nope, I do not think highly of Tim

He and I do not see eye to eye.

But I do appreciate that he created the most successful arcade in the entire world.

(That's something that I never even dreamed of when I routed games)

And, unlike the other so-called "great arcades", the PHOF is always open with free admission.

There’s 48 pages here explaining it. If you genuinely want to know what’s going on, start at the beginning.

Or..... just go there on your next trip to Vegas (or layover in Vegas) and see for yourself.

99.99% of people simply play pinball, have fun and leave without any drama.

.01% of people run, scream or swear and get kicked out.

The best part is; YOU get to choose your own adventure!

looks like your AI drank some of the pinbar kool-aid..

People are now admitting that they are going to the PHOF just for the confrontation.

You kids are too young to remember the Tube Bar in NJ, but it was owned by a confrontational heavyweight boxer Red Deutsch.

People would call the bar just to antagonize Red, then record the calls to play for their friends.

I heard these calls probably 40 years ago, but I didn't know the details-- thanks.

I'll preface by saying that Tim was incredibly kind and generous with his knowledge when I was doing Ted Zale research years ago. I haven't been to Vegas since the new location opened, so maybe things have changed. The "more than he can chew" can be easily fixed... reduce the amount of money going to charity, and instead use those funds to hire some staff to keep the place running right and take away some of the burden from Tim.

I’ll give credit to Tim where it’s due. Last time I saw him was at the old Trop location and got along great with him.

I know he has some issues with his hands/ arthritis or something but following a donation awhile back we did receive a handwritten thank you letter, full page, from him along with some goofy pinball related cartoons. That was nice of him.

Yeah as for hiring staff and funding more repairs I suppose you could use the phrase “you have to help yourself before you can help others”. Or “watch out for number one before you step in number two”. Speaking of which make sure those restrooms are up and running as well.

Well the thread is now 2350 posts and I know how that is when you come into a topic and you don’t particularly want to slog through so many posts. However, if you have the interest and time, all of your questions would be answered if you went back to read them.

It does go around in a constant circle. Tim sucks, Tim is great, Tim is mean, the customers are dumb, the machines suck, techs should be hired, there should be marketing, the bathrooms are terrible, I know how to do this better, and so on. It’s pretty entertaining. There are even some posts from the man Tim himself, and he has no problem explaining things exactly how he sees them.

Edit…BlackNight I just saw that you said this as well and more succinctly.

It's been suggested many times. Tim just doesn't want to. Part of it is that he simply doesn't want to pay a salary, and partly he doesn't want to take the time to train a tech only to have them leave a short time later. But the latter problem could be fixed by offering a generous wage, so the main stumbling block to that seems to be the former problem.

The more practical side is that there aren't a whole lot of experienced techs who would *actually* relocate to Vegas. And even fewer with a wide array of experience across all eras of games, not just more modern electronic games.

If the opportunity was there, I probably wouldn't relocate unless the wage was so completely ridiculous that it would be silly not to. But Tim is rather thrifty (maybe to the point of impracticality), so that wouldn't ever happen.

This should be used as a PHoF customer relations training film. Exceptional service.

Have you seen the rust bucket that is girard ohio? Berk’s people took a run down collection and turned it into a highly functional venue… people can do amazing things when someone isn’t an impossible cheapskate to a fault.

It’s too bad that Berk’s place is so far from Chicago… otherwise they’d be running laps around Tim in the community’s eyes.

‘Every gottlieb’ isn’t a draw anymore… nor will be a row of sterns surrounded by corpses.

My next pinball trip will be to Past Times Arcade, not only is it within driving distance, but it also looks like a desirable location.

https://pasttimesarcade.com/

Take a minute to compare their websites, to see how much effort the two venues put into their locations. (Just remember the PHOF’s website is full of lies as to the condition of games)

https://www.pinballmuseum.org/

This is not hyperbole. I picked up a couple games from Rob a few years ago. Pulled into McD's there to pee, and I parked next to an S10 that had a completely rusted off fender to the point that the battery was being held into the truck by a 2x4 and a bungee cord.

Only differences I see, and I'm not defending either. Past times $20 admission, only open thurs to Sunday
PHOF open 7 days a week, free admission
Condition of games better at Past times

*If I'm in Vegas, would stop at PHOF, but wouldn't make a special trip, same with Past times, if I'm ever in Ohio, I'll stop in.

Visited Past Times Arcade last Friday. Notes:

- Really clean and very well organized.
- Nearly every game worked. Things were maintained.
- The service and team members were really kinds. Owners wife chatted us up when we came in... Super friendly.
- Pricing was amazing. $20 for adults, $10 for kids under 15 yrs old - all you can play.
- LOTS of games from the 60's/70's/early 80s. A bit repetitive, but if you like the older stuff, there's a lot that's beautifully maintained.
- My kids loved the 200+ vintage arcade games.

After visiting most all of the "play-all-you-want" museum arcades in the country, i think Past Times and Next Level are the best. I prefer Next Level as their selection of modern and 90's pins is massive, and the memorabilia experience is second-to-none.

Pinball "Hall-of-Fame" LOL. Will not visit again.

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Disclaimers: been to the old Trop location, donated to the new Strip location (haven't visited yet), met Tim (and had a pleasant convo) at an Expo a while back.

All that said: there is almost no YouTube "confrontation" video that shows the _entire_ confrontation, from the start. Nobody actually whips out their phone and starts recording until things are already nearing (or past) the point of no return.

I've also done all of those....Agree on the You Tube videos but Beth says that the issue was she thought the boy was unsupervised, which doesn't seem to be the case. I've also personally witnessed confrontations from start to finish and Tim & Beth go from zero to 100 on the smallest matters.

What are the kids going to do? The worst case scenario is they dump a drink into the machine. Other than that, 60-70% of the machines are already not working.

I would be interested to know who initiated the relationship with Stern. I am completely speculating here. But I would imagine Stern sells the phof the new machines heavily discounted for exposure. Good marketing for Stern. I would also speculate that stern initiated the idea. Just completely spitballing on my end here.

I don’t know how the supposed greatest arcade of all time can’t deal with kids. Kids for the most part have been the lifeblood of arcades.

Also if your business model is a hall of fame or museum. Shouldn’t the curator of the museum make sure the museum has playable machines?

He has really painted himself into a corner. He wants to have adults only who appreciate his machines. Brands his establishment as a museum. However his establishment is full of broken machines. Now most of his revenue is coming from machines that every single pinball player can find 10 of in their own towns.

Huge differences….

Venue is actually attractive. Nice staff. Presentation you’d expect from a world class collection. Hot Food and cold drinks (including beer) available. Merch shop. Tare forign games you won’t see anywhere else. Really good classic arcade collection too.

Plus you can drive about another hour and hit pinball PA too and between them be more pins and vids than your brain can absorb

I like this part of the ramble on the PHOF website...

"Look at people playing at the PHoF; they're cheering, jumping up and down, laughing. They're having fun."

Well, not anymore I guess...that will get you the thumb...

1996 called and they want their website back!

Tell me you've never been to the PHOF, without telling me you've never been to the PHOF.

There are tons of kids there, all the time.

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This is why Pinside is the most toxic website (second only to 8kun)

Pinside: Sad people, living sad lives, trying to bring everyone else down to their sad level.

Says the guy with 41k posts

Somebody has to post positive threads like "Worlds Sexiest Man".

Otherwise it would just be gullible Pinsiders throwing their money away to scam companies or Pinsiders bitching about arcades they've never been to.

Oh yeah, it's an absolute shame the rest of us peons can't rise to your princely level.

Vid you are a great asset to pinside but your drivel in a Phof is a joke thread is growing old. I have been to the Phof many many times to both locations. you are of this notion of people who have been on pinside for longer or make it the most important part of their day have more knowledge than everyone else. Just because you post here 50 times a day does not make you a god to where what you is say is the rule. you come off as a troll. so respectfully piss off dude.

So vid do you think I just made this up? Why would I? I have more important things to do with my day than to post fabricated lies on this thread.

I guess I just quickly Doctored this photo too? Why do you think you can be so disrespectful to fellow pinsiders who have done nothing to personally attack you. You personally attacked my character by saying I am just in here without ever having been to the phof. What is the upside to your post? To make yourself feel good?

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You fool! You are playing right into his sinister hands!!!

Yeah Yeah yeah, it happens a few times a year. I see enough garbage I stick my foot in it. lol

I can just see the PM flying now Pinside elders unite and attack Sheev he did not fall inline hahahahahaha

Exactly.

Either he has never been to the PHOF, and has never seen that the place is full of kids.

Or, he HAS seen all the kids; but is making toxic posts to throw another tire into the dumpster fire.

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And you guys wonder why all the manufacturers have quit posting here....

What manufacturers have quit posting here? I see them posting all the time. More manufactures post here now than 12 years ago.

I asked the question if this thread is an acceptable topic. The Thread topic is what it is. I did not create it. I find it interesting. I do respect some of the points of view you have made vid. But to attack my character is not appropriate.

Genuine curiosity has its limits around here!

I wouldn't go that far, but I certainly put the ass in asset.

As in our current political climate, people are writing from opposite parts of the spectrum and are not working towards a positive common ground.

I've written previously in this thread about the positives of the PHoF. The collection of machines is admirable, those EMs which have been restored are fantastic, and the location could not be any better.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of negatives in the current situation. The backlog of machines not operating, management of unruly clients of any age, and broken bathrooms can all be solved. It takes cooperation among all involved and some distribution of responsibility
I'm an optimist by nature, but looks to me that people are dug in and unlikely to change. Sad, because the PHoF could be great. I'd like Mr. Arnold to be proud of what he has built and be willing to work with others to address clear problems. I'd love to see all those machines working well and kids behaving appropriately. Other places can do it, and even in the difficult locale of legal headaches and logistical obstacles, progress gets made by people who want to listen and cooperate

I think this misses the point that we're in a pinball fan forum here, and the opinions posted won't have any impact on the past/present/future greatness of the PHoF. Tim owns the machines, the land, and the building, and makes all hiring/firing/repair/janitorial decisions himself. So there's only one person's opinion that will have any impact on the PHoF and he doesn't appear to be posting in or reading this thread.

Which is cool, most of us are here to have fun shooting the breeze about pinball and get the occasional repair pointer and movie recommendation. No harm done in people blowing off steam about what they view as a massive wasted opportunity, or defending based on coin drop etc. But it also means it's not worth sweating the debate in this thread too much, since for better or worse it won't have any impact on Tim or how he runs his arcade.

I don't think Tim owns the land. The Las Vegas Pinball Collectors Club has the building listed as an asset it owns. I also believe the LVPCC owns the machines as well. Tim's president of the nonprofit, but its a board of 5 people that are the board of directors.

I appreciate Pinsider @forsaisu from Denver (my town of origin) and his comment above, but he is factually wrong. In my comment #1900 in this thread, I mentioned that I had a discussion with Tim when I was at the PHoF on a Sunday night in February. He was there working on some games with his head-mounted flashlight. He not only reads this thread, but I believe he also has commented in it.

Tim cares passionately about pinball, the HOF, his charity and the way he thinks things should be done. He is very similar to many hard-headed people who have succeeded in part because of focus and not letting go of the dream because others offer criticism. In my discussion with him, which was mainly his articulating his way of doing things, he made clear he has reasons why he has not hired more techs, changed to a single admission price, is vocal with people he thinks are misbehaving around his machines, and what his goals are.

We may disagree with his views, and his priorities, but not caring may not be fairly attributed to him. He cares a lot. That is why I hold out hope that in working through his priorities, and not giving up his dream, that he will realize that good people have constructive suggestions to make which would improve his arcade and make for even larger profits for his charity and good will. Stubborn people change when they feel less threatened and accept that others want to help. I hope that the current obstacles at the physical plant may be overcome and Tim learns to trust others skilled working well with arcade populations. I would really enjoy seeing him have time to fix some of those beautiful old EM games that he trusts only himself to work on.

Go up there to the top of the page to Find in Topic and enter Timarnold into the Posts by Pinsider box and you will find the 2 posts Tim has made in this thread. He has also made a number of posts in the other PHOf thread that is floating around.

This is true. In that case, look for the common denominator.

In simplest terms, Tim is a stubborn old mule.

Feral cows are real. I don’t know why this comes to mind.

IMG_2351 (resized).jpeg

I try not to participate in this thread. I really do.

I keep hearing the PHoF is a joke, but I never hear the punch-line.

It was near the beginning of the thread:

"Sir, we call it 'The Aristocrats' ."

Fast forward to Gilbert Gottfried.