(Topic ID: 343117)

Pinball Hall of Fame is a joke.

By Squeakman

10 months ago


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  • Latest reply 15 days ago by bob_e
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    There are 2,284 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 46.
    #2201 26 days ago
    Quoted from newovad:

    Do you know how much Mark Zuckerberg gives to charity every year? I'd guess for most folks it doesn't matter because they don't like the person, the product or the platform.

    The amount Zuckerberg has given to charity as a percentage of what he’s made is pretty low.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswealthteam/2021/01/19/americas-top-givers-the-25-most-philanthropic-billionaires/

    If Mark spent all his time at Meta working just to give away pretty much everything he makes I think that would be a hint that there may be more to the man than meets the eye. But Mark doesn’t.

    I haven’t personally met Tim yet but I do know people who have. I have no reason to doubt that he’s as rough around the edges as everyone says. We have a good friend, the one who got us into pinball, who says he will never go back there because Tim yelled at his 7 year old son for celebrating too loudly during a great game… The hand written signs everywhere are a bit much… It sounds like there is a legitimate dichotomy that people are having a hard time untangling.

    If PHOF were an actual joke, as the thread is titled, I don’t think anyone would care enough to start a topic like this, let alone sustain it… I am pretty sure the reason this topic is such a lighting rod is because the PHOF is very much not a joke. It has such incredible potential and everyone can see that...

    It’s really easy to tear down but it’s hard to build up. If Tim has personally offended anyone, they can choose to internalize that offense or they can try to find enough grace to let it go. It doesn’t cost anything but pride to let go of an offense. Even if you can’t quite make it all the way, just making the effort is growth. Some people just require friends with a lot of grace, and my suspicion is that is probably something Tim’s friends have in spades.

    The one thing that I’m fairly certain of is that if Tim had more friends in the community there would probably be more games up and running… There is a ton of talent in this community, but I suspect that the current state of the PHOF, and some corners of the Pinside forums, might be a better reflection of how much grace we have than talent.

    #2202 26 days ago
    Quoted from FutureEcho:

    The one thing that I’m fairly certain of is that if Tim had more friends in the community there would probably be more games up and running… There is a ton of talent in this community, but I suspect that the current state of the PHOF, and some corners of the Pinside forums, might be a better reflection of how much grace we have than talent.

    Lots of folks have offered, few have been accepted. Pretty sure Grace isn't a one-way street.

    Quoted from timarnold:

    Tim here at the PHOF.
    We have also had problems getting people WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING to fix machines. I hesitate to let a person who can not speak clearly or write legibly and has NO knowledge of basic mechanical skills loose on an expensive and complicated piece of equipment. The skilled helpers we do have all pitched in and worked extra hard, but we still had more machines going into the dead game bank than we had coming out for a long time. I have trained 3 people since we opened to do flipper and bumper repairs and they all three left due to legitimate life changes reasons. The constant noise and interruptions from customers is also physically and mentally DRAINING. Clay now lives part of the year in Vegas, and flatly will NOT help here during the hours we are open. It is also not practical to lift each machine up and move it to an isolated area each time they need repair. The cabinets are old and weak and trying to wheel anything thru a mass of people is difficult and dangerous.

    #2203 26 days ago
    Quoted from vwallat99:

    Almost every reply in this thread from you has been awful.. Take your own advice.

    You mean in every thread

    Quoted from metallik:

    It's WPC, right? Same switch and lamp matrices.. it wouldn't take *that* long to go through it by hand and document what is connected to what. Tim's just happy leaving it broken.

    I'm sure Tim just gave a generic answer that almost any shmuck could understand regarding why Pinball Circus is broken. He doesn't care to get into the intricacies of what needs repairs, particularly with somebody that could possibly know nothing about pinball operation or repair. If I ever have the hood up on a game in a public setting I'm often the same way.

    "whoa that thing is crazy looking under there! Whats wrong with it?"
    Am I going to explain to him about switch matrix's and optos and what a power driver board is or am I just going to say "theres a short somewhere" which is generally a good enough explanation for joe lunchbucket to move along and leave me alone to get my work done.

    #2204 26 days ago
    Quoted from newovad:

    Lots of folks have offered, few have been accepted. Pretty sure Grace isn't a one-way street.

    Grace is always a one way street. You hope that if you put out enough of it that some will come back your way, but if you expect (or need) it to come back your way then it’s just transactional, it’s not grace.

    I have read a lot of this thread and I have known (and even worked for) guys that sound a lot like Tim. You can get to the other side of the chasm (as at least a few other people have seemed to manage) but it takes an acceptance of the good with the bad and a lot of grace.

    This thread isn’t going to convince them to hire techs or change their business model. It just feeds, and rightfully so, the us vs. them mentality that everyone is complaining about and digs a deeper chasm and makes it even harder for the people he needs to get across it. There are plenty of people on here actively rooting for them to fail… Having an “us vs them” mentality in this situation isn’t a sign of a mental condition… it’s actually true. As to the rest of what is going on, all of us have our issues too.

    As pretty much everyone, for or against PHOF, has said, this place seems to have very foot high traffic. It’s on the strip… I have been there when 50-60% of the machines have been down and I’ve been there when only about 25% have been down. Someone(s) is working hard on the machines. The ones that are up definitely aren’t working perfectly, but they are working well enough to get a pretty good feel for the games and most importantly have fun.

    Hopefully a few more of you guys with the right skills can get across that chasm. Tim’s dream is right on the website. Every machine is perfectly maintained, even if it makes no economic sense. Anyone else would probably have long ago taken that off… It sets an expectation that is hard to live up to and I would imagine that there is no one more disappointed than Tim that it’s not that way right now.

    #2205 26 days ago
    Quoted from FutureEcho:

    Grace is always a one way street. You hope that if you put out enough of it that some will come back your way, but if you expect (or need) it to come back your way then it’s just transactional, it’s not grace.
    I have read a lot of this thread and I have known (and even worked for) guys that sound a lot like Tim. You can get to the other side of the chasm (as at least a few other people have seemed to manage) but it takes an acceptance of the good with the bad and a lot of grace.
    This thread isn’t going to convince them to hire techs or change their business model. It just feeds, and rightfully so, the us vs. them mentality that everyone is complaining about and digs a deeper chasm and makes it even harder for the people he needs to get across it. There are plenty of people on here actively rooting for them to fail… Having an “us vs them” mentality in this situation isn’t a sign of a mental condition… it’s actually true. As to the rest of what is going on, all of us have our issues too.
    As pretty much everyone, for or against PHOF, has said, this place seems to have very foot high traffic. It’s on the strip… I have been there when 50-60% of the machines have been down and I’ve been there when only about 25% have been down. Someone(s) is working hard on the machines. The ones that are up definitely aren’t working perfectly, but they are working well enough to get a pretty good feel for the games and most importantly have fun.
    Hopefully a few more of you guys with the right skills can get across that chasm. Tim’s dream is right on the website. Every machine is perfectly maintained, even if it makes no economic sense. Anyone else would probably have long ago taken that off… It sets an expectation that is hard to live up to and I would imagine that there is no one more disappointed than Tim that it’s not that way right now.

    Its kind of a double edged sword right? Its good that Tim makes such large donations to charity, but would it also be good if the donations were a bit smaller and part of that money went toward improvements to the building or the games or the operation of the facility? The latter is how most charities operate, but as we know Tim doesn't operate like most people and everyone has to understand Tim's going to do it his way no matter what, for better or worse.

    #2206 26 days ago
    Quoted from newovad:

    Lots of folks have offered, few have been accepted. Pretty sure Grace isn't a one-way street.

    Quoted from FutureEcho:

    Grace is always a one way street. You hope that if you put out enough of it that some will come back your way, but if you expect (or need) it to come back your way then it’s just transactional, it’s not grace.

    I love the philosophical turn this thread has taken. The urinals are but a distant memory.

    #2207 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    You mean in every thread

    Look who's talking.

    Hey, you forgot to troll BBQ and plump ninja.

    #2208 26 days ago

    This thread lol. It’s the same 10 people who think the phof is ran like garbage and the people who are like, do it better if you can.

    My last post in this thread was hey people do it bigger and better. But then it’s the well this is all voluntary and goes to charity. That’s fantastic too. But it comes with a consequence of, it isn’t ran very well. So many variables going on. But the thread is the phof is a joke. How the place is ran is indeed kind of a shit show. But if you look at it as this is just a charity and volunteers only operate it it’s hard to separate; well this is for good, but most of the machines and toilets are broken.

    The question is, is this an acceptable topic, and if so, it is what the topic is. People who come here and troll it Should not be upset when the topic is: this place is a joke. Stay on topic or not but the relentless back and forth is kinda dumb. Sorry to break it to the people who are just coming in to cause trouble and have fits.

    I don’t know I am sure people are going to get all upset because I didn’t go one way or the other. But wow.

    #2209 26 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    I was at PHOF last week. Was there on a Wednesday afternoon, between 3-5pm ish.
    -The place was pretty busy - probably 40-50 people there. At least half the carparks were full. Probably more than half.
    - the new sign out on the road side is awesome.
    - There was some company event down the left side behind the screens. They had folding tables and canned beers. Not the most luxurious surroundings but it looked like they were having a good time.
    - One urinal was down.
    - He sure has a lot of tie-die t-shirts these days!
    - Tim was going hard fixing stuff with his miners light on. He never stopped working while I was there. I didn’t stop him to tell him “I own a Twilight Zone” He doesn’t give a shit. lol
    - I played a few games on Wick, and some games on Venom premium. Put up a couple of high scores … they all worked ok. The new Stern row was the busiest section by far.
    - the air hockey table always had someone using it. Non stop.
    - probably half the machines were off, but none of the customers there gave a shit. They were all playing things and having a good time for a couple of bucks each.
    Hey, whatever anyone says - yeah half the pins are off and half the pissers don’t work, but it has to be the most successful arcade in the world. The place has 50 people there on a Wednesday afternoon.
    Could it be better .. sure.
    Is Tim a grumpy old guy … sure. You would be too working there 365 days a year dealing with the public.
    Could you do it better … probably not.
    Good on ya Tim - I was happy to give you my $6 bucks.
    rd
    [quoted image]

    Dave, approx how many machines were turned on and could be played?

    #2210 26 days ago
    latest (resized).jpglatest (resized).jpg
    #2211 26 days ago

    People can armchair quarterback all they want; PHOF is the most profitable arcade in the world.

    Tim's Spartan way obviously works better than ANY other arcade business model.

    -

    People make fun of how the Salvation Army stores are run... but not only do they earn $600 million a year, they have been much more successful than much 'better run' stores like Sears, Kmart, Radio Shack, Montgomery Wards, Toys R Us, Bed Bath Beyond, Fry's, Sports Authority....

    19
    #2212 26 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    People can armchair quarterback all they want; PHOF is the most profitable arcade in the world.
    Tim's Spartan way obviously works better than any other business model.
    -
    People make fun of how the Salvation Army stores are run... but not only do they earn $600 million a year, they have been much more successful than much 'better run' stores like Sears, Kmart, Radio Shack, Montgomery Wards, Toys R Us, Bed Bath Beyond, Fry's, Sports Authority....

    Well yeah, when you have everyone "donating your inventory" and Tim having everyone donating their "labor/time", yeah I would assume that they would be the most profitable. They have key costs that do not exist like they do in most business models.

    In my business the two single highest costs are labor and inventory, give me one of those for free and I will show you some fucking profits!

    #2213 26 days ago
    Quoted from FutureEcho:

    here have been a lot of people suggesting that Tim just takes all the money instead of fixing machines. With the deleted posts I must have missed something. Complaining about the backlog of machine repairs is legitimate

    Yeah, I have no real problem with Tim or his charity or business, just witht his haphazard way of keeping things running and apparent inability or refusal to fix Pinball Circus. I really think Steve Kordek would be pissed knowing it was sitting there broken and unplayed.

    -1
    #2214 26 days ago
    Quoted from vdojaq:

    In my business the two single highest costs are labor and inventory, give me one of those for free and I will show you some fucking profits!

    Internships.

    A really good business can always scam people into working for free for the first year, while they carefully choose the best candidates.

    #2215 26 days ago

    Interesting .... a non profit being 'the most profitable'

    .... charity = tax ?? both a form of giving for the good of others

    ..... a $97k loss doesnt seem too 'profitable' either (from latest form990)

    Maybe some things to consider when making blanket statements either way ....

    #2216 26 days ago
    Quoted from srt-8:

    Interesting .... a non profit being 'the most profitable'
    .... charity = tax ?? both a form of giving for the good of others
    ..... a $97k loss doesnt seem too 'profitable' either (from latest form990)
    Maybe some things to consider when making blanket statements either way ....

    Or maybe when making a determination - you look at more than one period?

    How many other arcades do you know that have funded buying two buildings... including one on the las vegas strip?

    Not-Profit doesn't mean 'no profits' - it means profits and assets must be applied to the mission, instead of returned to investors.

    15
    #2217 26 days ago

    All of these things can be and probably are true:

    Tim’s charitable donations are awesome.

    Tim isn’t a nice person to the general public.

    PHOF generates more money than any other arcade in the world.

    PHOF is one of the worst arcades in the world.

    Visiting PHOF is a neat experience.

    PHOF could generate more money and more charitable donations if it was run better and invested in itself.

    Did I miss anything?

    15
    #2218 26 days ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Did I miss anything?

    Urinals.

    #2219 26 days ago

    perhaps Tim should clone himself, that way, just possibly maybe, he can trust his clones to complete the high standards of workmanship required to get the full PHOF feeling. also one of the clones can fill in for him with all the court and lawyer BS. then once all the work is done, he can donate the organs of all the now useless clones. win-win-win

    #2220 26 days ago
    Quoted from douggalecawitz:

    perhaps Tim should clone himself, that way, just possibly maybe, he can trust his clones to complete the high standards of workmanship required to get the full PHOF feeling. also one of the clones can fill in for him with all the court and lawyer BS. then once all the work is done, he can donate the organs of all the now useless clones. win-win-win

    Or keep the organs as spares so he can shout at little kids 100 years from now.

    #2221 26 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    People can armchair quarterback all they want; PHOF is the most profitable arcade in the world.
    Tim's Spartan way obviously works better than ANY other arcade business model.
    -
    People make fun of how the Salvation Army stores are run... but not only do they earn $600 million a year, they have been much more successful than much 'better run' stores like Sears, Kmart, Radio Shack, Montgomery Wards, Toys R Us, Bed Bath Beyond, Fry's, Sports Authority....

    They also have the the insane advantage of tax exemption, so this isn't a fair comparison.

    #2222 26 days ago
    Quoted from Haymaker:

    Its kind of a double edged sword right? Its good that Tim makes such large donations to charity, but would it also be good if the donations were a bit smaller and part of that money went toward improvements to the building or the games or the operation of the facility? The latter is how most charities operate, but as we know Tim doesn't operate like most people and everyone has to understand Tim's going to do it his way no matter what, for better or worse.

    Haymaker the wise one/s

    #2223 26 days ago
    Quoted from beergut666:

    They also have the the insane advantage of tax exemption, so this isn't a fair comparison.

    If there is one thing that real Coin-op is good at, it's not paying taxes on income.

    #2224 26 days ago
    Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:

    But if you look at it as this is just a charity and volunteers only operate it

    As it has been said several times before, it doesn't have to be operated in that way.

    Non-profits can and do pay people fair wages.

    #2225 26 days ago

    The Salvation Army near my house pays $19 a hour

    But.... you have to pretend to be Christian to work there

    #2226 26 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If there is one thing that real Coin-op is good at, it's not paying taxes on income.

    I was speaking to your statement of the Salvation Army being better run than commercial retail establishments.

    11
    #2227 26 days ago
    Quoted from ultimategameroom:

    Dave, approx how many machines were turned on and could be played?

    Dunno!

    I think if you went around counting what machines were on or off, you’d be kind of a loser.

    PHOF is what it is. It’s probably the most successful arcade on the planet for the last 10-20 years, broken urinals and all.

    It’s never going to change, so people need to accept that and move on. Visit it or don’t visit it, over to you. It won’t make any difference to Tim.

    rd

    #2228 26 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:Dunno!
    I think if you went around counting what machines were on or off, you’d be kind of a loser.
    PHOF is what it is. It’s probably the most successful arcade on the planet for the last 10-20 years, broken urinals and all.
    It’s never going to change, so people need to accept that and move on. Visit it or don’t visit it, over to you. It won’t make any difference to Tim.
    rd

    Couldn't agree more RD.
    But people love to complain, complain, complain

    Marcia, Marcia, Marcia
    Steve, Steve, Steve
    Tim, Tim, Tim

    Marcia (resized).jpgMarcia (resized).jpgSteve (resized).jpgSteve (resized).jpgTim (resized).jpgTim (resized).jpg
    #2229 26 days ago

    If Tim 5% of the quarter drop, he could hire a skilled tech.

    IMG_7785 (resized).JPGIMG_7785 (resized).JPG
    #2230 26 days ago

    I know the whole urinal thing is a goofy thing to poke fun at but I was just there and the same urinal and sink have had garbage bags around them for months.

    I'll never understand why Tim refuses to hire a plumber.

    -2
    #2231 26 days ago
    Quoted from PismoArcade:

    I know the whole urinal thing is a goofy thing to poke fun at but I was just there and the same urinal and sink have had garbage bags around them for months.
    I'll never understand why Tim refuses to hire a plumber.

    It’s possible the issue is more extensive to fix that anyone knows. It could be sewer pipe issues. Although I’d think they all join together under building.

    Griping about a down urinal seems trivial. Just piss in another, the sink or outside.

    #2232 26 days ago
    Quoted from bob_e:

    If Tim 5% of the quarter drop, he could hire a skilled tech.
    [quoted image]

    It took me a minuet, Great picture/meme.

    #2233 26 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If there is one thing that real Coin-op is good at, it's not paying taxes on income.

    I have been insinuating this for years with Tim and the PHOF. You and I get it, always have.

    #2234 26 days ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Tim’s charitable donations are awesome.

    Quite frankly, it's really the best part of the whole PHOF.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Tim isn’t a nice person to the general public.

    No, he is not a "people person" and this rubs off on his front end volunteers as well.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    PHOF generates more money than any other arcade in the world.

    This I 100% believe and it could be more with modern management skills.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    PHOF is one of the worst arcades in the world.

    Yep, the non working machines, the treatment of people who are just trying to have a good time, and turning a brand new modern building into what looks like an indoor swap meet. Working bathrooms?

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Visiting PHOF is a neat experience.

    Even when you have all the above, just walking into that place is a whole different world that resonates with many of us.

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    PHOF could generate more money and more charitable donations if it was run better and invested in itself.

    You have one single roadblock, Tim. He doesn't feel he needs to change anything and that IS the whole problem.

    #2235 25 days ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    Dunno!
    I think if you went around counting what machines were on or off, you’d be kind of a loser.
    PHOF is what it is. It’s probably the most successful arcade on the planet for the last 10-20 years, broken urinals and all.
    It’s never going to change, so people need to accept that and move on. Visit it or don’t visit it, over to you. It won’t make any difference to Tim.
    rd

    I haven’t been to Vegas in 15 years. I was just curious approx how many games were turned on/how big the place is. I’m not trying to be negative or fault the place. Shooting from the hip What would you guess 200? 300? 400?

    #2236 25 days ago
    Quoted from ultimategameroom:

    I haven’t been to Vegas in 15 years. I was just curious approx how many games were turned on/how big the place is. I’m not trying to be negative or fault the place. Shooting from the hip What would you guess 200? 300? 400?

    I guess I'm a big fat loser - here you go, from 3 months ago: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-hall-of-fame-is-a-joke-/page/39#post-8058962

    #2237 25 days ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Griping about a down urinal seems trivial. Just piss in another, the sink or outside.

    Maybe he should put coin mechs on the urinals... then he can pay for a plumber

    #2238 25 days ago
    Quoted from ultimategameroom:

    I haven’t been to Vegas in 15 years. I was just curious

    I guess I'm a big fat loser - here you go, from 3 months ago: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-hall-of-fame-is-a-joke-/page/39#post-8058962

    Thanks for posting the link! so approx 200-250 machines powered up.

    #2239 25 days ago

    Regardless of whatever other shitshow is taking place at PHOF, I'd wager most would want at least the bare minimum of creature comforts, and that would mean--wait for it-- WORKING BATHROOM FIXTURES! This is potentially a health concern as broken-down urinals can bring smells, vermin and other pathogens. Disgusting and Tim should have in place a professional plumber to canvas the location 1x a week. God only knows what horrors the Women's Rooms hold....

    #2240 25 days ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Send it back to me. Myself and two others here have worked on this machine and are familiar with it.
    LTG : )

    I’ll fix that and I am not familiar. I know I could do it though. I have an expert support team.

    Pinside is part of it.

    IMG_1708 (resized).jpegIMG_1708 (resized).jpeg
    #2241 25 days ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:It’s possible the issue is more extensive to fix that anyone knows. It could be sewer pipe issues. Although I’d think they all join together under building.
    Griping about a down urinal seems trivial. Just piss in another, the sink or outside.

    I could swear Tim mentioned, in one of his post, that there was an issue with the plumbing and that he and the original contractor were trying to work things out.

    10
    #2242 25 days ago
    Quoted from bob_e:

    If Tim 5% of the quarter drop, he could hire a skilled tech.
    [quoted image]

    Bally employed solderers who knew how to hold soldering irons on the assembly line. This picture is from the Playfield assembly area on Melrose Lane in Franklin Park.

    Pinside_forum_4155659_1151402 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_4155659_1151402 (resized).jpg
    #2243 25 days ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Bally employed solderers who knew how to hold soldering irons on the assembly line. This picture is from the Playfield assembly area on Melrose Lane in Franklin Park.[quoted image]

    Playfield:
    6milman.

    #2244 25 days ago
    Quoted from meSz:

    I could swear Tim mentioned, in one of his post, that there was an issue with the plumbing and that he and the original contractor were trying to work things out.

    Could def be something contractural. Contractor installed something wrong and Tim may be trying to work a resolution for it. Who knows.

    12
    #2245 24 days ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    Could def be something contractural. Contractor installed something wrong and Tim may be trying to work a resolution for it. Who knows.

    Yeah, sometimes it takes years to fix a urinal. They are more complex than a pinball machine.

    #2246 24 days ago

    "Fixing urinals is hard"

    #2247 24 days ago
    Quoted from CubeSnake:

    "Fixing urinals is hard"

    It’s just like pinball. There’s a short in the plumbing

    #2248 24 days ago

    Tim did not like it that people were having more fun in his toilet room then in the warehouse

    That’s why he will never fix it
    IMG_0005 (resized).jpegIMG_0005 (resized).jpeg

    #2249 24 days ago

    Yeah, plumbing is just like electrical….easy peasy

    IMG_0359 (resized).jpegIMG_0359 (resized).jpeg
    #2250 24 days ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Yeah, plumbing is just like electrical….easy peasy
    [quoted image]

    LOL

    There are 2,284 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 46.

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