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(Topic ID: 169508)

Pinball expo update RE American pinball


By mikepin

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 97 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 97 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
11
#51 4 years ago

Fool me once shame on you

Fool me... you can't get fooled again

#52 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

you can't get fooled again

download (resized).jpg

#53 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Until I see this new company state exactly what they want and what they are giving to the Zidware customers (if anything);

I'm getting tired of companies "stating" things and telling us what they're going to do. Wouldn't it be great if they actually completed something first and then went public?

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Fool me once shame on you
Fool me... you can't get fooled again

The Bush version. Good one!

#55 4 years ago

Seems to me that if AP didn't come to Expo people would be critical of their lack of public presence and accuse them of hiding behind an elaborate scam. Now that they are wanting to come to Expo people are critical that they have the floor to present themselves in what could be an elaborate scam. Damned if you do...damned if you dont.

If having to choose between the two I would rather they come to Expo so those that may want to have a face to face have the opportunity to do so. I personally would like to see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears before passing immediate judgement on intentions of AP.

#56 4 years ago

I just don't want Jpop to tag along.

#57 4 years ago

This is working up to a must-see seminar.

Right or wrong, they are going to have a crowd in the room.

#58 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Until I see this new company state exactly what they want and what they are giving to the Zidware customers (if anything); I don't think Expo should be giving them any platform to potentially screw more customers.

Maybe they want to make their statement.. at Expo?

Quoted from Zitt:

Not my show; so doesn't matter.

Exactly!

It's interesting that the two biggest cheerleaders for no-AP-at-Expo are also two of Expo's biggest overall detractors. I guess you and Hilton can't stand seeing Expo getting all this attention?

#59 4 years ago

Whatever. You actually think this is a good thing which it isn't.
I don't care WHERE AP decided to come out of their hole... it's not welcome in my book.
Also; you know - I didn't start this thread... nor did I cause the other threads to be locked.

I think it speaks volumes at how fast this and the other threads have spiraled into the same "discussion".

So; you go right along and help yourself to pat on the back. go right ahead.

-2
#60 4 years ago

nevermind. Not worth it for the little loudmouthed f&ckwit.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

(quote edited in the meantime by original poster)

Haha

#62 4 years ago

If pinball enthusiasts get swindled out of money, I say it's your own damn fault. We're not preordering Corvettes or Harley's here guys. If you give someone $, as a deposit for something before a product is even shown, there is ALWAYS risk of not getting exactly what you expect, especially in a timely manner. There are mistakes made every day in business and pinball is no exception. Take a step back for a minute and realize the right and wrong way to do things.

There are customer expectations for ESTABLISHED reputable companies as well as a company that's the brand new. If there is no history, you are taking a much bigger risk with any $ at all.

Did we not learn anything from the AMC Delorion? Or the Twentieth Century Motor Car Corporation? Pinball enthusiasts need to pay closer attention in history class dammit!

If you don't want to support a business, don't listen to them and ignore them...

Certianly don't give them a deposit before they prove themselves.

I don't see anyone banning Jersey Jack (or his machines) from any events after he supposedly stole millions from his previous employer. I guess that's ok?

God, when will people realize there is no such thing as a pinball "preorder". It's a promise so easily broken that it means NOTHING.

#63 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

nevermind. Not worth it for the little loudmouthed f&ckwit.

About damn time!

#64 4 years ago

BEST EXPO EVER!!

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

If pinball enthusiasts get swindled out of money, I say it's your own damn fault.

I'll take "How to be a dick" for $1000 Alex.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

If pinball enthusiasts get swindled out of money, I say it's your own damn fault. We're not preordering Corvettes here guys. If you give someone $, as a deposit for something before a product is even shown, there is ALWAYS risk of not getting exactly what you expect, especially in a timely manner. There are mistakes made every day in business and pinball is no exception. Take a step back for a minute and realize the right and wrong way to do things.
There are customer expectations for ESTABLISHED reputable companies as well as a company that's the brand new. If there is no history, you are taking a much bigger risk with any $ at all.
Did we not learn anything from the AMC Delorion? Or the Twentieth Century Motor Car Corporation?
If you don't want to support a business, don't listen to them and ignore them...
I don't see anyone banning Jersey Jack to any event after he supposedly stole millions from his previous employer. I guess that's ok?

A bit harsh and I'm not sure I agree with the jjp part, but I agree with the rest. Investing with any startup is a huge risk and simply part of the business world. And if it works out, you get a nice return on your money.
I can't tell you how many companies owe me money for advertising and I'll never see it. Some go out of business, some bankruptcy and others just don't have the money.

This thread just got good.

12
#67 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

(quote edited by original poster in the meantime)

Dude, chill. You have definitely made it known just how shitty you think Expo is over the years. There's been a lot of good changes, but I kinda doubt you in particular had anything to do with it.

Quoted from Whysnow:

(quote edited by original poster in the meantime)

Wow. How about "I see an opportunity for JPOP investors to possibly get *something* for their money. I see Mr68's posts here on this forum. I surmise some JPOP customers are working with AP towards a resolution.

I see you trying to do whatever you can to wreck that, despite having no money invested yourself. How's that for f'n selfish and stupid??

#68 4 years ago

If JPOP shows up, why don't we just hire one of those sign twirlers to follow him around with a big sign that says "Shame."

I'll pitch in 5 bucks.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

If JPOP shows up why don't we just hire one of those sign twirlers to follow him around with a big sign that says "Shame."
I'll pitch in 5 bucks.

I'd rather see the big nun lady with bell from GOT. Someone be sure to bring the rotten tomatoes.

#70 4 years ago

pinside will blow up if jpop shows up with an empty cab

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#71 4 years ago

I have no problem with AP going to expo. We are all responsible for how we spend our own hard earned money.

19
#72 4 years ago

American Pinball should be given a legitimate chance for the health of the industry, present their development plan at Expo, keep prices in check, and maintain pinball quality of construction.

I am speaking from my personal behalf to whom I have private friends that were directly and fully burned over the MG debacle, and most are not exhibiting anywhere near the emotions on this forum, trying to froth people up into some whip cream frenzy for personal entertainment. Some absolutely refused to read some of this bull#!@$ and not participate, and I cannot blame them.

This entire "hate out of the gate" session is reminiscent of IPB and the comments directed to Gene Cuttingham and the remake of BBB from 2004-2006. "The Korn" back in 2005 tried to do the same damn thing and ended up making a formal public apology for his stupidity in late 2006.
I doubt anybody here will have the balls to step forward and offer an apology if AP makes "wrongs right" with some of the assclownery going on right now.
There are literally people right now arguing about the concept even though they were not even involved in the hobby at the time of the original shennigan!
People will simply feign ignorance that they were even involved in the argument in the first place, and hide behind a keyboard with an avatar.

Alternatively, the same berated concept was thrown out in 1998 after Neil Nicastro decided to close production of MM even through their were open production orders and move into the next title, or even in 1999 when he decided to close down the Williams Pinball Division regardless of the fact that Pinball 2000 was making profits and was successful.
People wanted to burn his damn house down even though he was an old man.
What sense did that make?

All pinball production has risks to private buyers as this is a luxury toy, not a life necessity.
Make informed choices.
Don't complain about prices, but be the first in line to pre-order the next game before it is released or even revealed.
Don't dislike a game, but buy it anyway because you like the theme, and then complain afterwards.
Don't buy new games and then complain about code being unfinished.
Don't buy things from untested individuals or new companies.
Don't try to flip games you don't own for a "slot", but bring up a pricing debate.
Review and test a product in person before buying a game, even if by simulation of necessary if there is no other way.
Hell, watch gameplay videos, anything.

This industry does not cater exclusively to the whims of individual person's desires and never will.

People have to use logic, not emotion in their choices of how they give income to others, especially if this income is not something they can afford to lose. Otherwise, there is no way a person can blame others for mistakes, it just makes the person look foolish.

It is called capitalism, not cannibalism.

#73 4 years ago

Even if AP made it right, I doubt I would ever support JPop. If that means I have to not play an AP game, so be it.

#74 4 years ago

If ap makes restitution I'm not sure why anyone would still protest against ap or jpops involvement. You took a huge risk and it eventually worked out. There was no guarantee you wouldn't lose your money and you didn't. Not sure why you would carry punitive damages.

That being said, I am rooting hard for ap and jpop to succeed and for all their investors to be made whole.

14
#76 4 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

If ap makes restitution I'm not sure why anyone would still protest against ap or jpops involvement. You took a huge risk and it eventually worked out. There was no guarantee you wouldn't lose your money and you didn't. Not sure why you would carry punitive damages.
That being said, I am rooting hard for ap and jpop to succeed and for all their investors to be made whole.

When is everyone going to wake up and REALIZE American Pinball OWES no one ANY restitution?!?!

This is a company helping JPop produce his games in exchange for designs and tangible assets.

Buyers of MG, RAZA, and AIW will hopefully get the machines they paid for. For that to happen, AP will need to sell as many Houdini's as they can. Vendors, designers, and anything else owed by Zidware is an entirely different story.

Look, some how JPop, Dhavani, and the guy from Zizzle all got thrown in a blender and the end result is American Pinball with JPop as a consultant/designer.

You can hate JPop all you want, but he could have just said fuck it and went straight to bankruptcy and EVERYONE would collect dust. THis does not mean one bit I am on JPop's side. It doesn't change the fact that JPop is the KING of all douche bags, and some(vendors) may get dust no matter what. The guy fucked up, knows he fucked up, and for all intent and purposes belongs in jail for collecting money still when he knew this was all never going to happen under his guise.

AP may be able to bail JPop out on the purchaser side. That is STILL a huge maybe at best. Be pissed at JPop, not the guys(AP) who might be able to make people whole.

#77 4 years ago

Thank you all for the recent posts.

I can understand the emotions from my friends who have lost funds.
They have a ray of light now. Lets let it grow, and be positive, in the hopes it produces "something"
for those upset because of money.
If you feel, as even I do, that Jpop did what he did intentionally, fraudulently, and illegally, I can respect that.
But thats what a court is for.
If you feel you wont, or shouldnt touch a game Jpop has his hands on, thats fine, but demanding others do so
or as mentioned, hoping for failure....isnt that what you are complaining about.....failure, and now your answer is to
promote more?
I wont go to expo, and order an illusion, or a promise of a game, out of both respect to my fellow pinsiders,
and the belief, that a new company with no production, will deliver a game. But I will hope they do, and hope
they are following the path of higher ground they appear to be taking.

Once again, not APs debt, Bankruptcy and Law Suits have not gone away.

But, there are other designers, and AP just may turn out to be a great company, successful, and hire OTHER designers.

Dont we all want that?

Like anything here on pinside, we have a group of people affected, and then a Polarization on either side....wishing success
or failure, based on either an employee or independent contractor of a new legal company.

My personal experiences will come out wrong, no matter how I say this, but yes, I "feel" as others do, I understand the anger.

But John thinks he tried and failed, and not tried and defrauded. Its in Legal now.

If I had 10 cents on the dollar for the amount I have had taken, bankrupt, not paid, robbed of, etc, in my business life,
Id have retired way earlier. It doesnt make it right, it sucks, but thats the system.

Rarely have a seen a situation, where a new Company even mentions fixing someone elses debt issues, especially when in litigation at this level. I applaud them for trying, and hope we let them try first, before hanging them.

Dont buy it or play it, or look at it, if it bothers you. But just perhaps managing emotions, might allow those with financial loss
to possibly see some good.

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

American Pinball should be given a legitimate chance for the health of the industry

The industry must be healthy if there are going to be two games designed by Jpop ready for play at expo this year along with all the others. Who would have have thunk it....?

Last time and expo had so much to show was 1996 wasn't it? And the industry sure went on to thrive after that ....

#79 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Rarely have a seen a situation, where a new Company even mentions fixing someone elses debt issues, especially when in litigation at this level. I applaud them for trying, and hope we let them try first, before hanging them.

I understand that thinking but see it differently. The company is seems to have set a strategy that leverages the high emotion, history, and intensity to promote their entree into the community. They know enough to try to address building the machines, so understand at some level the scope of the problem. Yet, they turn righting that wrong into a spectacle in front of their overall announcement. ????

Instead of treating those people with respect and understanding of the damage done, they appear tantilize with new whiffs of hope which appear very much exactly like previous false hopes. Its wrong in my opinion and seems to stem strongly from the same secretive and rumor driven proclivities JPOP exploited to get his Zidware buyers on the hook already. Its more of the same with a new front in my opinion and those signs show a continued blatant disregard for the impact that has occurred, the strategies employed that magnified it into a very harmful community scar, and that seems to imply with good reason that's getting driven by the same source, JPOP. Its the same and if the company could do it differently its not, why? Maybe because its not a different company, because it looks at lot like a JPOP strategy to a problem JPOP made. I'm just not seeing anything 'new' that sets 'American Pinball' separate from JPOP and all that harm and problem.

Can anyone really list what about this entire 'roll-out' is different than JPOP's other games. Same secrecy, same confusion, same disdain for real impacts.

I'm honestly disappointed that the current victims are getting roped into further trauma and public exploitation and as I stated in the Expo AP announcement, it should be at expo until the victims are addressed and done so less publicly. Fixing JPOP's wrong should not be an asset to the new company that gets leveraged in my opinion, its ultimately their penance for choosing to hire him and should be handled with respect not celebrated with overt greed at its production of noise and notice in an increasingly crowded market for high end luxury toys.

I think I generally want to forgive and forget, but this company didn't set out to do that. They announced their new game first, setting that as the primary goal, and knowing about the damage and chose to lead with the 'panic/outlash/high activity strategy and so far share just enough info to fan the flames and continue the attention. It doesn't show any sincere signs of regard for the victims which has me wondering is it not really more of the same and from the same source, just a bit more removed...or maybe shielded.

At this point, for me, if this were the best game in the world, I have so little respect for the management of this messaging, it's hard to imagine its redeemable. I wouldn't put my money there on principal. Not all buyers consider that, so can understand the differences. Like I said, I'm prone to turning the other cheek but not seeing any cause or reason to do so yet. Maybe that will change.

If I were them. I'd back out of Expo - adress the JPOP victims, build community respect, and put their new game out on its own merits with a ton of good will. That's not happening and if I had to guess because it JPOP leading the show, setting direction, and nothing at all has changed. I just hope we don't loose more sheep to that wolf.

Edit: Consider this, if you were starting a company would you start with a toxic asset and agree to inherit and even resolve it, absorbing it as 'start up' costs? Seems improbable and there's no reasonable logic that makes that a realistic. If you start to ask WHY AP would do this, well the only reason you would, is because you HAVE to, and the only person who does is JPOP, so AP is probably JPOP.

#80 4 years ago

Indeed, you might be right, and this is all vapor.....with nothing more ever to come.

But we dont know that yet, and we dont know of any plans or communications, that share more answers.
All we have is speculation from our minds and our opinions.

Nothing wrong with that, but it can be subject to "beliefs" that are "theories" based on assumptions.

blockquote cite="#3373488">I have so little respect for the management of this messaging

I would agree with you, if they were the first messenger. Sadly, that was Kaneda, with his own flair, that adds to an emotional situation.

I understand and agree with what people "want", but it doesnt mean it will happen, or from a new separate legal entity will
happen.

We are at "wait and see" until more info.

With that, Im shooting for optimism, and hoping so, and the other side is more pessimistic.

All good, either view, but the "what if's" that become fact now in several threads is beginning to show.
(Not saying you are doing this)

I myself have no gain or loss, others are personally affected. These emotions and the empathy of us, anyone,
can be clouding an otherwise positive opportunity when no hope exists on the other side of the coin.

#81 4 years ago

Boy, will I sound like a hypocrite now.

The other thread shows the initial business filing with Jpop listed in its filing.

Heres what I posted on the other thread:

"I find this info very disturbing.

I have tried to share some sense of non emotional optimism.

A separate company with an honest intent to fix, and this may still be the case.
But seeing the business filed this way, I am bothered.
An emotional change here, because it wasnt a company created, IMO, that reached to John, but now appears that
he was present from the creation.

The intent might be positive, but it now seems that this is following that same pattern.

Anyway my position is, its now smelling quite rotten now."

I truly want to hope for the best...that something is better than nothing.
Until seeing otherwise, Im a lot less sure than I was 10 minutes ago.

In the best case scenario, the AP Company creation in itself, is showing bad planning and more an illusion.

If they are reading this...a bigger can of worms is now present.

My apologies for the flip.

#82 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

My apologies for the flip.

I don't see a problem with flipping a stance based on new information. If anything, it's commendable.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Dude, chill. You have definitely made it known just how shitty you think Expo is over the years. There's been a lot of good changes, but I kinda doubt you in particular had anything to do with it.

Wow. How about "I see an opportunity for JPOP investors to possibly get *something* for their money. I see Mr68's posts here on this forum. I surmise some JPOP customers are working with AP towards a resolution.
I see you trying to do whatever you can to wreck that, despite having no money invested yourself. How's that for f'n selfish and stupid??

I'm curious how you guys would react if a similar arrangement was made with Kevin Kulek.

#84 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I don't see a problem with flipping a stance based on new information. If anything, it's commendable.

It's a sign of intelligence!

CGYnJILXIAATCCC (resized).png

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I don't see a problem with flipping a stance based on new information. If anything, it's commendable.

Flipping is just fine! Flip-flopping is usually not.

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

I'm curious how you guys would react if a similar arrangement was made with Kevin Kulek.

Kevin is being dealt with a lot more forcefully than JPop. JPop has gotten off easy so far.

I'm really hoping AP does try to do something with the people JPop stole from but make no mistakes about their motivation though. They want to use JPop as a designer and see that they have to remove some roadblocks to easily do that.

They are doing this in self-interest, otherwise they have no reason to make good on his debts. It's not some altruistic move from a "father and husband" or however they tried to position JPop. All the word-smithing in the world won't make him a good person.

#87 4 years ago

Thank you, I still have guilt...old man meds...Ill blame everything i post and do at expo on them!

I mean, originally I disagreed with Aurich, and Hilton severely. I didnt post, because I can read their emotion and passion,
and there is nothing I can say because we are all speculating. But If you hear what they are saying, albeit without emotions,
We either have to respect a New Company, with funding, that is attempting to do good, or its more of the same BS.
I dont know, but I am now in the mood for Popcorn....Holy Shit....Here Speculation Only.

What If.....

John is doing the speaking/booth at Expo?
What if it is the President of the Company?

What if Houdini is there, and it doesnt flip?
What if it does, and something positive is there?

What if MG goes out and people are happy?

When does this become, 100 games are ready, everyone is happy, CT is stocked and Chris thinks its Great, Levi Loves the shots,
......

This is going to be a loooong thread.

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

This is going to be a loooong thread.

I'll throw out a completely real positive. Ready....

All of this only show's how passionate everyone is about the hobby, that kind of tight investment with so much passion is a sign of a healthy hobby that can support a robust industry.

Its interesting to consider that the passion really comes from a hobby that has a history of ebb and flow, and fear of a trough and anything that can forecast or cause a new trough is looked upon with great scrutiny. In some ways it may be why the current boon has been sustained for so long and continues. So good things coming from the worst parts if you look with a bright enough light.

#89 4 years ago

Nothing wrong with Optimistic Karma!

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

They are doing this in self-interest, otherwise they have no reason to make good on his debts. It's not some altruistic move from a "father and husband" or however they tried to position JPop. All the word-smithing in the world won't make him a good person.

Yes, without resolution of the lawsuit against jpop, they can't use anything zidware created. Not that anyone would buy anything without resolution anyway. There seems to be an assumption that people are lining up to buy Houdini... all I see are people lining up to hear more details on AP's plans.

The question is whether AP can generate positive interest and make enough money on Houdini (and whatever else they're building) to provide enough compensation to John's creditors so they'll come on board. With today's high NIB prices, a few thousand Houdinis would cover at least a good portion of the losses.

On one hand, it sucks John is still involved... but hey, someone has to design the games, and this whole thing started because people wanted his designs in the first place. Kicking him to the curb might make people feel better in the short term, but that's the end of zidware compensation hopes...

On the other hand, if AP busts their asses and gets a flipping game and shows they can ship MGs, this is still a lot better situation for creditors than having no AP and just their lawsuit (which isn't likely to yield any real assets). The key is that John cannot have any management roles. Lock him up in a room with wood, plastic, a CAD PC and tools. Hell, put a big ol' collar and lock on him like some of these magician pictures we see.. it comes off when debts are paid

#91 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

There seems to be an assumption that people are lining up to buy Houdini...

What bothers me is I thought the JPOP fiasco was behind us. Yes, we would take our losses, learn from them and move on.

Now here he is again ready to dupe the next crowd. Maybe show up at expo with a decent looking game to generate interest and find potential investors/employees. He doesn't need to ever produce a game, he just needs to generate enough income to live, to pay his lawyers and to continue noodling.

#92 4 years ago

That filing shown in the other thread is NOTHING!!!!!

JPop is a emergency contact, that is it! Does everyone realize where JPop lives is just a few minutes from the warehouse/factory? I am the sole owner of my business , but one of my emergency contacts is an employee because he is 2 miles from my business.

#93 4 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Boy, will I sound like a hypocrite now.
The other thread shows the initial business filing with Jpop listed in its filing.
Heres what I posted on the other thread:
"I find this info very disturbing.
I have tried to share some sense of non emotional optimism.
A separate company with an honest intent to fix, and this may still be the case.
But seeing the business filed this way, I am bothered.
An emotional change here, because it wasnt a company created, IMO, that reached to John, but now appears that
he was present from the creation.
The intent might be positive, but it now seems that this is following that same pattern.
Anyway my position is, its now smelling quite rotten now."
I truly want to hope for the best...that something is better than nothing.
Until seeing otherwise, Im a lot less sure than I was 10 minutes ago.
In the best case scenario, the AP Company creation in itself, is showing bad planning and more an illusion.
If they are reading this...a bigger can of worms is now present.
My apologies for the flip.

He is an emergency contact, that's it! So what?

#94 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

The industry must be healthy if there are going to be two games designed by Jpop ready for play at expo this year along with all the others. Who would have have thunk it....?
Last time and expo had so much to show was 1996 wasn't it? And the industry sure went on to thrive after that ....

Many know (including you) that in 1996 things had started to slow down again, although titles were still be prepared for release from the WMS one after another.
1996 was supposed to be the big year for Capcom, before they changed their mind.

The best Expo shows I can recall in the past 20+ years was 1992-94.
There were a cascade of great titles from GTB (Premier), DE, BLY/WMS, and AGC.
Sega and Capcom were future upcoming games being prepped.
All manufacturers were "riding the wave".
For me, 1993 was a big year because that was the time Dennis Nordman displayed the whitewood for Whitewater prototype and discussed the design process for that particular game.
That was a great discussion.
I $#@!ed up by not ordering a Mystery Castle or AGB while at the AGC booth at that time.

There is no doubt this Expo is better than many in the past 5 years.
There *could* be plenty of choices by manufacturers.
I just would be disappointed to see American Pinball turn into Capcom.

People did not throw money at any company until the samples were finished during those periods whether operator or private owner (small percentage).
Distributors took the primary risk beyond the manufacturer in pre ordering titles.
The term here is "show me your finished product, I will then show you my money."
Pinball IQ needs to be maintained even if it is a boutique company.
Private owners are not responsible to be owed to take risks, unless they choose to invest in a company by their own accord.
No one can convince me that because the market has shifted to private ownership that individuals should take the burden of risk via pre ordering games.
Some people actually are starting to believe this as a "fact", and that is just plain non-logical.
Nobody is going to "miss out" on a title, because I have proven over the years, any dedicated enthusiast can find nearly ANYTHING made in the last 35 years in superb/collector quality.
This includes any limited edition game.
Now, that being said if I am looking for a game made beyond this period, it can be tough.
Exceptions are samples, prototypes, "one offs", foreign made low production games, or homebrews.
Captain Nemo would be a great example for me.
I want one, but I will be hard pressed to get one unless I finagle accordingly with dangled Ben Franklins on a large fishing pole.

As I have stated, if a pinball machine is well designed, showcased properly for advertisement, priced accordingly to the economy variances of value, and available for immediate shipment, it will sell.
I personally have no problems buying a future Houdini to sit beside my Pinball Magic, but I want the machine either stocked at a distributor or ready to be transported off the factory floor.

The only potential exception will be if Silver Castle Pinball finally pulls off TimeShock! to which I am first in line.
At least Jurgen made the right call, and has outright REFUSED to accept money for pre-orders.
But if it happens, I am heading to the Netherlands on a "roadtrip" overseas to Europe, paying for the game in person, and bringing the game back on an organized transport plane shipment which I will take care of myself, including customs processing which I have done before back in the mid 2000s for other games.
It really is a "diligence rewards the collector" concept.

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

but hey, someone has to design the games

I pretty much 100% agree with your entire post, except the need for JPop to be the designer.

If it gets all the MG, RAZA and AIW owners their games, maybe there is something to it.

But after having seen the stuff going on in the custom pinball world, I'm 100% convinced that there are designers lurking out there that would blow people's minds. I could easily come up with a handful of designers that would lay out a better playfield than JPop. The JPop myth is nothing more than an actual myth. When left to his own devices, we all got to see what he is really capable of........ nothing.

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from vdojaq:

He is an emergency contact, that's it! So what?

This was about whether he was an employee,
or an independent contractor.
I commented from personal legal actions
that independent contractors can only
Have keys, for a short term self controlled
time. I lost a case on this issue.
I am not stating I know his legal position or
not with AP.
I have further shared support that this shows
a likely deeper relationship.
Equally, if any patents or property from zidware were transferred. I don't know. Just
speculating that if they were, and these
Are assets of Zidware, there could be issues.

Of course. I could be wrong, and it's all great!

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Nobody is going to "miss out" on a title, because I have proven over the years, any dedicated enthusiast can find nearly ANYTHING made in the last 35 years in superb/collector quality.
This includes any limited edition game.
Now, that being said if I am looking for a game made beyond this period, it can be tough.

I agree 100%. Although I've been playing almost my whole life, I only started buying a few years ago and I have seen first hand there is no "missing out" on anything you are looking for. I've had no problem locating any modern game in top shape, but when I started digging for the antique games I thought that might be the case, but I found all the gems I was looking for and it didn't take long.

The key I believe is patience, and being ready when the time comes. If you feel you have to have something now or before anybody else does, then be prepared to pay more for that. Same with anything in life.

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