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(Topic ID: 169508)

Pinball expo update RE American pinball


By mikepin

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 97 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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There are 97 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
13
#1 4 years ago

Well after further thoughts I am contacting my contact at AMERICAN pinball to hear their plans to make right on past BEFORE they come to expo . I did NOT realize how big this issue was SORRY

-4
#3 4 years ago

Is it? I don't see it on the news.

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from jahbarron:

Is it? I don't see it on the news.

Do you see anything pinball related on the news?

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

Do you see anything pinball related on the news?

I hear about pinball wizards and pinball making a comeback more often than you'd think.

12
#6 4 years ago

I actually believe they should be allowed to come and explain their plans.

#7 4 years ago

I agree let them speak and bring the game. Lots of questions need answers. Then get the pitch forks

#8 4 years ago

No free RFB, travel or hotel rooms though.....

-6
#10 4 years ago
Quoted from mikepin:

Well after further thoughts I am contacting my contact at AMERICAN pinball to hear their plans to make right on past BEFORE they come to expo . I did NOT realize how big this issue was SORRY

good on you Mike!!!

Please make sure they have a fully vetted and viable plan to take care of ALL issues of the past. They keep saying MG customers but that is only 10% of the total. They need to also take care of RAZA and AiW customers before you even let them talk about Houdini.

I think it is good to get them to expo so they can answer questions (They had better bring John as some people would like to see him).
Once at Expo they need to be talking about how and when they are making ALL of Jpops customers whole.

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

good on you Mike!!!
Please make sure they have a fully vetted and viable plan to take care of ALL issues of the past. They keep saying MG customers but that is only 10% of the total. They need to also take care of RAZA and AiW customers before you even let them talk about Houdini.
I think it is good to get them to expo so they can answer questions (They had better bring John as some people would like to see him).
Once at Expo they need to be talking about how and when they are making ALL of Jpops customers whole.

So it's this company's fault for JPop's past problems in business and now they have to make right what JPop did?

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

So it's this company's fault for JPop's past problems in business and now they have to make right what JPop did?

If they are using IP that was developed with RAZA, MG, AiW preorder dollars (that is pretty obvious) then 100% yes, and the law would tell you that also. 1 business is not allowed to take over another in order to remove its creditors.

#13 4 years ago

From the Pinball News Article:

"And now we come to the (Jennie) elephant in the room. What does all this have to do with J-POP? What happened to Zidware? When are the people that ordered their games going to get them?

More than anything at all – even more than their excitement to share their new pin with me – American Pinball wanted me to share with all of you that they want to be a straightforward, honest, transparent company with integrity. To that end, they have announced that they will be fulfilling the Magic Girl orders, with their first units ready to go by the Chicago Pinball Expo in October, and the remaining orders shipped by the end of 2016.

“People have been waiting for the Magic Girl situation to be resolved”, Scott told me. “These people had given up hope on ever receiving their product. Our plan is to make them whole, then move towards the future.”

And what does the future hold for American Pinball? If they actually can make the Magic Girl fiasco right, they will be super – no, super-duper – heroes to the pinball community. If Houdini plays as good as it looks, at a retail price of $6995? Then the pinball industry has a new, serious challenger on their hands. Perhaps this might stifle the incredible inflation going on in the pinball industry right now."

Geez Hilton, give them a chance to do something right before you bring the pitch forks and torches out.
I have no idea what there plans are but if they can get MG games to the people who are owed them that is a step in the right direction.

#14 4 years ago

if they want to be "a straightforward, honest, transparent company with integrity" then they need to lay ALL their cards on the table, and explain how EVERYONE will be made whole before they start taking money for Houdini.

Talking about 25 Magic Girls is not enough. They probably know exactly how they want to deal with the rest of everyone, but aren't saying, which is troublesome.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Geez Hilton, give them a chance to do something right before you bring the pitch forks and torches out.
I have no idea what there plans are but if they can get MG games to the people who are owed them that is a step in the right direction.

sorry Tom but they have already done so much wrong here. If they really are making MG then they would have reached out to all those owed a MG in advance and communicated with them at minimum. They would then be showing us a flippable MG (it has been months since the junk one showed up at the PNW show and should be fixed my now).

They are trying to hype and sell a completely new game and once again asking for the trust (and money at some point?) of those that got screwed but even moreso just saying empty words to look for new buyers to market to. They deserve to be burned at the stake and pitchforked a few times while on fire for good measure.

SHOW us 25 built MGs and then they can talk details on Houdini.
Show us 113? RAZA that are built and then we can talk details on Houdini.
Show us the opportunity for refunds to anyone that wants them and then we can talk details on Houdini.

#16 4 years ago

@ Frolic
Says the guy who will want Houdini first........... ................Joey

#17 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

SHOW us 25 built MGs and then they can talk details on Houdini.
Show us 113? RAZA that are built and then we can talk details on Houdini.
Show us the opportunity for refunds to anyone that wants them and then we can talk details on Houdini.

Pretty sure they can talk Houdini without showing you anything.....in this friggin nutty hobby...I guarantee you at least one person who got burned the first time would pre-order it again.....Ima say it again....This Hobby Is Friggin Nutts..........!!!...............Joey

-5
#18 4 years ago

You may want to consider your decision very carefully,

If a show organizer knowingly invites a scam artist to pedal his con games, the organizer can be brought into all lawsuits for the con.

The first time the conman sold his scheme on stage, most everyone was unaware, and you can plea ignorance.

Bringing a conman back, would cause a jury to wonder if you knew of the con from his first presentation, and you are a part of all liabilities.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry Tom but they have already done so much wrong here. If they really are making MG then they would have reached out to all those owed a MG in advance and communicated with them at minimum. They would then be showing us a flippable MG (it has been months since the junk one showed up at the PNW show and should be fixed my now).
They are trying to hype and sell a completely new game and once again asking for the trust (and money at some point?) of those that got screwed but even moreso just saying empty words to look for new buyers to market to. They deserve to be burned at the stake and pitchforked a few times while on fire for good measure.
SHOW us 25 built MGs and then they can talk details on Houdini.
Show us 113? RAZA that are built and then we can talk details on Houdini.
Show us the opportunity for refunds to anyone that wants them and then we can talk details on Houdini.

I can see you going to expo and hiding in the corner with your keyboard for some reason. So no one would have to show you anything.....

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If they are using IP that was developed with RAZA, MG, AiW preorder dollars (that is pretty obvious) then 100% yes, and the law would tell you that also. 1 business is not allowed to take over another in order to remove its creditors.

They would have just phoenixed the company if that was the issue.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry Tom but they have already done so much wrong here. If they really are making MG then they would have reached out to all those owed a MG in advance and communicated with them at minimum. They would then be showing us a flippable MG (it has been months since the junk one showed up at the PNW show and should be fixed my now).
They are trying to hype and sell a completely new game and once again asking for the trust (and money at some point?) of those that got screwed but even moreso just saying empty words to look for new buyers to market to. They deserve to be burned at the stake and pitchforked a few times while on fire for good measure.
SHOW us 25 built MGs and then they can talk details on Houdini.
Show us 113? RAZA that are built and then we can talk details on Houdini.
Show us the opportunity for refunds to anyone that wants them and then we can talk details on Houdini.

I see what you mean. I really hope that they will come through and finish the games for people who got screwed. They set a time line so hopefully they meet that. I would certainly be cautious and not throw anymore money at it if I was a MG owner.
Unfortunately anything associated with JPop is going to get a black eye and then some.

#22 4 years ago

I would like to believe everyone will be made whole, but I dont see that as feasible.

I am expecting they say some hollow promises to MG owners about getting X game IF houdini sells. Given the nearly imposible economics of what Jpop was promising, even if MG comes along then it will not be limited, will not be full featured, and there will be compromises to what was promised. Even after they deal with MG, they have 2 other games and prebuyers to make whole.

To me the only viable solution for them to even sell Houdini is to try and get out from under the Jpop issue by offering a cash buyout to those that are owed games. Something like .50 on the dollar towards a new game and many people may cut their losses and take the houdini rather than the hurt, time, and money to continue after Jpop. Honestly I am still amazed how little headway seems to have been made legally against JPop.

I often feel lucky that with SkitB we atleast have him stuck since he admitted to not having the license and hence has no real way out of the mess like JPop who can drag it out and continue to lie, lie, lie.

#23 4 years ago

Posted on RGP last night. Looks like Houdini is still on the list.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/t7z-eX3tB1Y

REMINDER FOR THE
32nd Annual PINBALL EXPO!
Westin Chicago North Shore • Wheeling, (Chicago) Illinois

October 12th - 16th, 2016

WE WANT YOUR GAMES AT EXPO!

We will offer a day's admission for each game you bring or a $30 credit per game, per day against whatever admission package you would buy. Please call or email Mike at a 330-518-3141 or mgp...@aol.com with any questions, or you can just bring the games any time Wednesday afternoon, or anytime Thursday and Friday.

This promises to be the biggest and most exciting Pinball Expo in 32 years!

PINBALL EXPO 2016 Updates!

**The STERN EPIC 30th ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA (OFF SITE) WHICH
WILL BE SPECTACULAR, BUT AT THIS POINT IS SOLD OUT**
Visit: https://www.tilt.com/tilts/stern-pinball-epic-30th-anniversary-extravaganza for more details

**ADAM WEST (The Original Batman) will be onsite at EXPO for a PRIVATE meet and great Friday Afternoon. You will need to talk to your Stern Distributor for details on this event.**
Stern will have their new game BATMAN 66 and hope to see the new CAN CRUSHER

**Also, some surprises by Joe Kaminkow which has formed a joint venture with Stern called KAPOW PINBALL**
We will have Jersey Jack Game #3 (Name Unknown At This Point) Designed by Pat Lawlor
(Based on Pat and Jack's past history, it should be exciting & there will be a five of those machines there to play!)
AS well JJP will have Hobbit and Wizard of OZ available to play

Heighway Pinball will showcase their new game "Aliens"

American Pinball will showcase their new game HOUDINI!

- PPS/Chicago Gaming will announce and probably be showing their next remake. This is after Medieval Madness!
- Multimorphic/P3 - we're sure they'll have something new to show us.
-FAST Pinball will have some exciting new games to show
-Maybe Spooky Pinball will show up with something

Over 100 Games on
FREE PLAY
with a day’s admission!
Pinball Expo offers the greatest variety of activities and events of any pinball show!

The vendor hall will be open on:
Thursday at 6PM until Midnight
Friday from 10AM until Midnight
Saturday from 10 AM until Midnight as well Sunday Morning.
The vendor hall will remain OPEN during seminars, banquet, and tournaments, but will NOT be open over night.

The game hall will be open all night Thursday, Friday, and Saturday as in the past.

Tour the 110,000 square foot ultra-modern NEW STERN Pinball Factory. See their latest games, and meet the founder Gary Stern!

Meet Jersey Jack and the production team behind their latest game.

ee and play the latest boutique custom pinball machines at the Vendor Hall.

· Play well over 100 pinball machines in the game hall and Vendor Hall

· Meet both present and past pinball industry people at the Autograph Session.

· Visit our large Vendor Hall featuring over 40 different vendors selling everything from parts and books to back glasses and machines...and much more!

· Enter the Two-Player Team Tournament on Friday. Visit http://www.slam-tilt.com/expo/ for complete details and to register.

· Enter the Flip Out Tournament open to both young and old with the chance to win a BRAND NEW Stern Pinball Machine as the grand prize.
· Experience four days of educational seminars from a wide variety of presenters.

Attend the LTG Presentation featuring Lloyd Olson and the surprises it offers!

Play the World's Largest Pinball Machine made by Atari, Hercules!!!
This rare and seldom seen game will be available for FREE PLAY
throughout the entire show.

Expo 2016 On-Site Game Repair Available
Pinball Expo will have a team of game repair technicians including
Rob Anthony (314-766-4587) to fix your games and boards.

See our website for the complete PINBALL EXPO 2016 SCHEDULE!
http://www.pinballexpo.net/

THE HOST HOTEL, WHICH IS THE WESTIN
IS SOLD OUT!

We have a block of rooms at the
Holiday Inn Express & Suites
2600 Lake Cook Road
Riverwoods, IL 60015
Phone 847-374-0260
Fax 847-374-0535
Re: Pinball Expo
The Group Will Receive The Following Rates
Wed. October 12, - $99 Standard Room
Thurs. October 13, - $99 Standard Room
Friday October 14 - $99 Standard Room
Saturday October 15th - $99 Standard Room

When you call the above phone number to reserve your room, please mention PINBALL EXPO

See www.pinballexpo.com for all details and to register. There is still exhibit space available and we welcome you to bring your games to show or sell.

*** Also mark your calendars for another great pinball show OHIO PINBALL SHOW next March. See http://ohiopinballshow.com/ for all details.
If you have any questions please email or call:
Mike Pacak : (330) 518-3141 mgp...@aol.com

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If they are using IP that was developed with RAZA, MG, AiW preorder dollars (that is pretty obvious) then 100% yes, and the law would tell you that also. 1 business is not allowed to take over another in order to remove its creditors.

If we didn't use any products that involved R&D that was involved in some sort of litigation, we wouldn't purchase much. I personally would only purchase the game if they were starting to make some of the MG folks whole. Then the community would have to help in order for AP to recoup $ to pay the others who are owed funds.

If the ownership is not independent of John, that's a different story.

Having said all of that, I believe Hilton's theory on this whole thing is even money right now. Until that first working game is shipped, it's all smoke and mirrors.

#25 4 years ago

Moderation notice:

I suggest we keep this Houdini thread limited to Pinball Expo - all other JPop/American Pinball/Zidware posts should be made in the two relevant threads.

#26 4 years ago

I hope Houdini is at expo so I can play it! There I said it.

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry Tom but they have already done so much wrong here. If they really are making MG then they would have reached out to all those owed a MG in advance and communicated with them at minimum. They would then be showing us a flippable MG (it has been months since the junk one showed up at the PNW show and should be fixed my now).
They are trying to hype and sell a completely new game and once again asking for the trust (and money at some point?) of those that got screwed but even moreso just saying empty words to look for new buyers to market to. They deserve to be burned at the stake and pitchforked a few times while on fire for good measure.
SHOW us 25 built MGs and then they can talk details on Houdini.
Show us 113? RAZA that are built and then we can talk details on Houdini.
Show us the opportunity for refunds to anyone that wants them and then we can talk details on Houdini.

For someone who is not involved, you sure have a lot to say on the subject (as usual) why don't you just chill and wait for their seminar at expo?

10
#28 4 years ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

If a show organizer knowingly invites a scam artist to pedal his con games, the organizer can be brought into all lawsuits for the con.

The first time the conman sold his scheme on stage, most everyone was unaware, and you can plea ignorance.

Bringing a conman back, would cause a jury to wonder if you knew of the con from his first presentation, and you are a part of all liabilities.

Mike/Rob/Expo are not endorsing any of these guys. In fact, showing favoritism could be construed as (anti)endorsement of some kind and used in a (frivolous) lawsuit. Mike should and is remaining neutral and simply providing an expo for businesses to reveal their products.

Mike is not anyone's mother, nor is he their financial advisor. Zidware was a legit company and people willingly sent them money. The company's leadership was imcompetent, it floundered and now another company is trying to make something of the remains. Proving this to be a scam, even at this point would be practically impossible. Incompetence != fraud. People at Expo can watch AP's presentation and decide what they want to do afterward.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from cavalier88z24:

I hope Houdini is at expo so I can play it! There I said it.

On Free Play. Unlike Gene, Gene, the Dancing Machine and his $5.00/play King Pin scam.

#30 4 years ago

I'd pay $5 to play a King Pin. Probably the only chance I would ever get.

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I'd pay $5 to play a King Pin. Probably the only chance I would ever get.

Go to CAX and you'll get to play one.. they put one in the hall each year

18
#33 4 years ago

Yesat this point we are believing its better to have Houdini at expo than not If American piball can prove in their seminar and their game that they are real everyone will benefit

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from mikepin:

Yesat this point we are believing its better to have Houdini at expo than not If American piball can prove in their seminar and their game that they are real everyone will benefit

I'd then recommend ignoring the coming wrath on Pinside. There are some professional drama queens who'll do everything they can to whip the forum into a frenzy.

#35 4 years ago

The best possible solution is to make their appearance at the show non-noteworthy.
Don't go to their seminar. Don't play their game. Don't acknowledge their hard work. Don't send them preorder info/checks/ect.
That would speak volumes.

Make them waist their time.

#36 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

The best possible solution is to make their appearance at the show non-noteworthy.
Don't go to their seminar. Don't play their game. Don't acknowledge their hard work. Don't send them preorder info/checks/ect.
That would speak volumes.
Make them waist their time.

So it's better if they fail and MG supporters have zero chance of getting anything again?
A long shot is better then no shot.

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from Mitch:

So it's better if they fail and MG supporters have zero chance of getting anything again?
A long shot is better then no shot.

Are you really insinuating that others should be paying them attention and money for houdini so that possibly MG will come to life?
AM Pin has the control of their own destiny on their own hands. MAke others whole and deliver MG in a form similar to what was intended when sold and lots of people wil pay attention.

-3
#38 4 years ago

Yeah. It's better they fail... until we see a real plan. Right now it's a few words on a press release. Once past customer have their machines... then they deserve a shot.

#39 4 years ago

I wish AP started up with Brian Eddy or some other designer, so they weren't immediately burnt at the stake. More pinball can only be a good thing. It seems to me from an outside perspective that they're trying to be a legit pinball manufacturing company. Just poor choice in a lead designer. (Understatement of the century)
I do think they should be able to speak for themselves at expo. I think the majority of us do. We're all curious if they can pull something off.

#40 4 years ago

Pretty sure we all wish they had started with ANYONE else..

#41 4 years ago
Quoted from mikepin:

Yesat this point we are believing its better to have Houdini at expo than not If American piball can prove in their seminar and their game that they are real everyone will benefit

I understand what seems like a fair approach, but wouldn't discount the outcome and impact of that discussion in an uncontrolled crowd, potentially which very emotional people with direct and serious financial damage. If the direction of the show is family friendly, your inviting a set of circumstances that are uncontrollable and prone to a negative outcome. I don't see the risk vs reward.

You might mitigate it if the company would openly address their hinted at plan to rectify Magic Girl users, but they should be held to clarify that well in advance or it is likely to be the only subject up for 'discussion' at the show and it should address all of the impacted JPOP users, not just MG.

For the sake of protecting unaware and family minded uninitiated people into that mess, that should all be transparent or not allowed in my view.

In my opinion, allowing them without some rectification beforehand, your inviting drama and that's what you'll get. I don't think pinball is about that and wouldn't want to expose newly interested people to that level of conflict.

On the other hand, maybe it will help them be more cautious and not make the same mistakes others made here.

There's clear evidence that this company is working with someone who is a detriment to the community and an ongoing unresolved affair, inviting them to announce or even attempt to address it as part and parcial to a new game announcement condones that activity and decision in my opinion.

They claim to know his history and even claim to be attempting to rectify it, why then let them continue it as a secretive affair and 'maybe' expose it at the show, all while drumming up attention and fan fair for a product that up to this point has dismissed the severe impact JPOP made on this community.

If it were my show, I wouldn't let him in the door for those reasons precisely, not without addressing those issues completely and beforehand, then the unveiling could be about the new game and pinball as it should be, but they shouldn't be forgiven or their possibly poor decisions ignored without some transparency. We shouldn't put those victims into an 'event' even if it offers some closure. It should be fair, direct to each one of them, and without public participation.

Just something to consider.

-8
#42 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

The best possible solution is to make their appearance at the show non-noteworthy.
Don't go to their seminar. Don't play their game. Don't acknowledge their hard work. Don't send them preorder info/checks/ect.
That would speak volumes.
Make them waist their time.

Yeah that says a lot about you,real classy...they have nothing to do with all jpop's wrongs...but hey,what am i defending? it wouldn't matter too you anyway, you only buy pins with "star trek" on them. You only own startrek pins dude?
So you are just fueling a fire?

-5
#43 4 years ago

Texas trekkie

IMG_3897 (resized).PNG

#44 4 years ago
Quoted from ianwho:

I wish AP started up with Brian Eddy or some other designer, so they weren't immediately burnt at the stake. More pinball can only be a good thing. It seems to me from an outside perspective that they're trying to be a legit pinball manufacturing company. Just poor choice in a lead designer. (Understatement of the century)
I do think they should be able to speak for themselves at expo. I think the majority of us do. We're all curious if they can pull something off.

Why didn't they just use Jon Norris for a designer and avoid all the negativity? Jon has seen the game in person and has been posting about it on Facebook. I would much rather see someone respected like him attached to the project vs. JPOP!

#45 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Yeah that says a lot about you,real classy...they have nothing to do with all jpop's wrongs...but hey,what am i defending? it wouldn't matter too you anyway, you only buy pins with "star trek" on them. You only own startrek pins dude?
So you are just fueling a fire?

Sorry dude... but when some company hires the scourge of the pinball community to help them "design" a "possibly" different machine. And then tries to market to that the same pinball community. I take substantial issue with them. They could have hired anyone... or even done their own design - but they choose to align themselves with that Thief formally known as a Designer. Next they'll be buying the rights to Predator and then re-theming it something like MyLittlePony.

So what if I have only Star Trek machines... but apparently you can't read; because there is an RFM in there. Regardless; I'm glad you feel elite because you have 12 machines of random crap in your collection. I really do not care what you think of my collection.

#46 4 years ago

No those are good machines you have man, wasn't aware there were so many startrek titles though...
But my point was that so many people have no skin in this but fuel the fire.
If american pinball is at one point sick of the puke they get from all the armchair wrestlers here, they might get a change of heart and go like;" meh,f@ck those zidware buyers".
And i don't want that? I want something for my lost money?!
And me pointing at your collection is merely to make a point..you have nothing to do with this.
You don't buy recent pinballs,plus you collect startrek stuff.
And you advise everybody to go and ignore American Pinball and ignore their hard work and their effort to push out the magic girls for the people that lost their asses on zidware.
Come on...i am not saying extremely weird things here now, do i?

#47 4 years ago

Moderation notice... this thread is about Pinball expo and Houdini / AP... There are others available to argue over JPop.

<Mod mode off:>
Assuming I could come to Expo, I would be interested to hear what AP has to say, and I would listen first before shouting.
If AP can help JPop customers (and sub-contractors...), Great. I would applaud.

No chance I would buy this pin though (and even less likely preorder or put a deposit of any kind - been in Predator debacle).

#48 4 years ago

Lets see if I understand this

AP owned by investor and the guy who ran zizzle?

They employed jpop to design those home games in the past and now are looking at full size pinball

Jpop still has the right to a job and an income, and I am sure this is the only way people will get a game?

So was everyone acting this way when Bill tried?

Looks like they have invested money to get to this point?

#49 4 years ago

It could be a legal problem for American Pinball by using parts for their new product which was developed with money of MG/RAZA/AIW, e.g. the hinges, backbox and more things. And their new product really got presented already to the public containing all these parts.

#50 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

And i don't want that? I want something for my lost money?!

I want those customer to be made right - yes. But this "new" company shouldn't get any positive ROI given their "employees" track record. Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice...

Until I see this new company state exactly what they want and what they are giving to the Zidware customers (if anything); I don't think Expo should be giving them any platform to potentially screw more customers.

Not my show; so doesn't matter.

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