(Topic ID: 142405)

Pinball Expo 2015 recommendations for change

By mikepin

8 years ago


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    #36 8 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    6. Lanyards. No offense but I think its crap that GEX and Mezel mods (who are kind of enough to print pinside name lanyards) are doing this on the side and not Expo. First, it's awesome to see the name of someone on pinside or RGP and walk up to them and strike a conversation because we've chatted online. I missed many people this year I would have liked to say hi in person to because I had no clue who they were without a name tag. Many of us in the hallways said the single best thing about Expo - even if it was a disappointment this year - is the best show for meeting up with people in the hobby from all over the world. People come back to reacquaint with long time friends and new ones made online. See party mention above. Lanyards with real names, online handles, Avatar and home state make so much sense.

    Folks who pre-register get lanyards, also, if you ask the registration desk they have some blanks you can fill out.

    Andrew

    #37 8 years ago
    Quoted from Dmod:

    My suggestion to Rob at the show was that you consider trying to reallocate the space to better merge the vendor and free-play areas.

    Trouble is, this would cause us to close the free play space when the hall closes... One of the cool things about expo and unlike most other shows is the free play room is available 24/7 from Friday afternoon until Sunday at pack up.

    Now if a vendor wanted to put games in the free play space... We have a few vendors who already do it.

    Andrew

    #38 8 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    LONG post incoming. Mike, please do read it all. I really want Expo to continue to be a success
    Three bits of background that are important:
    1) Due to life, I haven't been able to get down to Expo for the past two or three years. I blame my kids and my job changing (I used to work 20 minutes away from Expo). Take this with an appropriate grain of salt.
    2) I have been attending Expo more on than off since 2001.

    I truly hope to see you at the MGC this year You may not remember this, but my last trip down to Expo three or four years ago you spent like 10 minutes Wednesday night talking to me when you heard I was in charge of MGC and I introduced myself, and you were great. You gave me some great ideas to think about with the MGC in that 10 minutes, and actually helped me figure some stuff out. Because of the nature of our conversation, there really wasn't anything for me to add (we were mostly talking location, my situation and yours are vastly different), and I wished I could return the favor. I hope the above does in some way.

    Hopefully you will make it to expo again soon!

    Andrew

    #89 8 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    well yea it's a social event. but just look at the bitching/complimenting in all the other threads. one common theme - lack of games in the free play area (or in the case of last year, a lot of games in the free play area). almost every post says it, it is common to the bitch/compliment thread about nearly every show - people either complain there's not enough games or compliment there are plenty of games.
    i bet if expo had a great selection of games this year, you would have met your friends in the free play area and you would have been playing them. probably the reason you only played two games was because that's all the games there (out of the small number) that appealed to you. just a guess, but that's where my money bets.

    We most certainly want more games at the show next year, something we will be working hard to achieve.

    I have been reading all the posts concerning the show with great eagerness... and it comes to me that if people did not go to play games we would never hear them complain about lack of games... seems catch 22 to me.

    Also, I know we will make every effort next year to get in what we can, but I know we will not make everyone happy. There were 90 games ish in the free play room, and around another 30 in the vendor hall... and people still only played one or two games and left dissapointed. I have to wonder if there is some psychological effect to having the bar set so high (2014) and finding 2015's worth of games. 120 games? Nothing for me to do here... still seems off to me.

    Again, don't get me wrong. I don't fault anyone for feeling there was not enough, because I felt the same way. We needed more games next year, and will want as many games as we can get to fit into the space we have.

    Andrew

    #93 8 years ago
    Quoted from CraigC:

    Does the free play room needed to be open all night? Maybe I'm old but after 2am I'm done.
    -c

    I made it until 3-4 nightly, there were people playing the whole time I was there. I would say there were 10~ people in the room at the latest hours... More earlier, thins out around 2 from what I can see.

    We sure did get a lot of gruff for closing it in the past.

    Andrew

    #152 8 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Last year had 140ish games and about 110ish played good and were well tuned.
    This year IMO had less than half of good playing well tuned games.

    There were 236~ games last year, including the vendor hall, extra room, hall spaces and prefunction. Not 140.

    Andrew

    #156 8 years ago

    Should have found me! Great times!

    Andrew

    #157 8 years ago
    Quoted from CraigC:

    like to chimp flip.
    -c

    Hey, chimp flipping has kept me in the mid 20's in CPM for 3 years straight!

    Andrew

    #168 8 years ago
    Quoted from maf-mi:

    How about discounted admission for children and stools provided for easier access to all the pins.

    Marco Specialties has brought 10 stools every year for the last several years... Just gotta find where they get to!

    Andrew

    #173 8 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I was talking about freeplay room. I only counted 148 last year (checked my notes) in the main free play room? That was friday afternoon.
    I did not count any in the overflow since I stepped in there and most were the fixers from what I saw.

    There was also that neat little game that Gavin brought, it was a Williams Pachinko style baseball game. I think it had System 10 boards in it or something weird. It was like Pin2K in that you could change out the PF with other themes. It was neat.

    IIRC there were around 25 games in there. Also a few for sale, but a back to back run and some on one wall. The room was in use every time I walked by for sure.

    No matter what I will write here I am sure you will have a response that is critical of something I am saying. Feel free to call me if you want to have a conversations about next year, or feel like you can donate some time to help with load in and the free play space.

    224-279-1545

    Andrew

    #179 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    Funny how I hear this statement echoed over and over in this thread.
    Perhaps people are not fully aware of my support (both physically and monetarily) of the Pinball Olympics. I won't go into specifics, as the details are not that important due to the fact that all of us involved with the Pinball Olympics started doing it and continue doing it for the love of the results
    The larger builds take a tremendous amount of time, effort, and money to build. While Jay foots the major portion of this bill (don't misunderstand me, it's his baby from day one and virtually all the credit goes to him), there are others, myself included, that have stepped in to assist in all of these areas. At times it is simply too large of an undertaking for any one man.
    Pinball Life's dedication to getting these awesome machines into the public view has been there pretty much since day one. We have featured these *pinball rides* in the past 3 Explosion open houses.
    Long story short, I would like to keep them here during the Expo weekend, of which Pinball Life is formally a part of as of this year. Selfish? I suppose you can read it many different ways. Our open house is free, but its only for 6 hours. One could argue that that's not enough exposure time at this juncture, but I'm sticking to my guns if I am allowed to have any influence as to the outcome. Jay and I have already talked about dedicating more room to the Pinball Olympics next year. However, there is nothing set in stone as of yet. I have done my share of ground work/support on this project (if that's what it is) and I see no reason to pass all this history over to the Expo hall when zero interest has been shown by them in the past.
    Besides, with the current load in structure at the Expo hotel location you will not get these beasts through the loading door, down that skinny back hallway, and into the hall. Not even close.
    Ultimately though, all final decisions and directions fall to Jay.
    Food for thought. Thanks for listening.
    Terry.

    The great thing about the whole Expo experience is that there is a way to keep Pinball Life's awesome event and still have the Expo (at the Westin) have a neat thing of its own. I love seeing that stuff at PL's open house, and appreciate them being there and work required to get that stuff going.

    Andrew

    #187 8 years ago

    After talking to Mike tonight it looks like the hall hours on Saturday will change. Although its not finalized and subject to change it looks like it will close at midnight on Saturday, meaning it won't close during the banquet.

    Also, the website update is on Mike and Robs radar. We will need a bit of time on this one, but we know it needs updating and we will work on it this year.

    Its funny, but I did sell parts just before 3AM on Sunday morning while I was packing up. Very little after midnight though.

    Keep the suggestions coming!

    Andrew

    #229 8 years ago
    Quoted from vanilla:

    It used to be that Expo had less space in earlier venues. Now there is space. Twice in its history, the Expo had to move because the hotel it was in was going to be closed or torn down.
    It used to be that the games and the vendors were all in one room and the entire room shut down for the banquet. This room was locked to prevent theft to vendors. Absolutely nobody played any pinball machines during the banquet. Nobody. That changed, and a separate room was made and left open. The so-called dedicated free play area. Having the vendor area left open all night as was being done lately was not always an offering.
    Way back, Sunday used to have more events on the schedule but people (like me) had to fly out that day to get back for work on Monday and would miss certain events. Nowadays, just the tournament extends into Sunday. No need to formally declare it a tear-down day on the printed schedule because informally it's been that way for years. One look at the Sunday schedule and anybody can know when they plan to leave that day.
    Sad to see if the pinball halls will indeed close at midnight Saturday night next year because after I attend the banquet I always meet up with others to play all night. That's the best time for us, after attending all the seminars and fireside chats. This suggested midnight closure idea sounds like my pinball playing opportunities at this show will now end at 6pm Saturday for me when I get ready for the 7pm charity auction which precedes the banquet. Not sure why those who don't stay up all night need the halls to be closed all night as suggested earlier in this thread. I would think it wouldn't matter to them at all. If they want the halls open during the banquet, that's cool, but I don't see why closing them for all night has to be necessary for that to happen.
    I wonder if the vendor hours are a problem only with the non-vendors despite the fact that the non-vendors keep recommending to Mike that the vendors be surveyed for what hours they would like. Was it ever established that the vendors are in fact majorly unhappy or are only the non-vendors keeping this issue alive? Just asking.
    It used to be that if you did not attend the banquet you could not get in the room to bid the auction. That changed and now there are chairs in the back for those who want to bid but do not want to eat. I hope that change is appreciated.
    Strange that even if indeed freeloaders are walking into the seminars, the seminars aren't fuller. I'm not complaining about the honest people who walk among us.
    It's kind of funny. No matter how many changes are made over the years, there are always people who want to physically be wherever the show schedule says they can't be. After 31 shows, so many ideas have been tried and, later, tried again, it's like a pendulum swinging back and forth.

    At this point we are not looking at changing the free play hall hours next year, just the vendor hall hours. Many vendors I spoke too and myself would like the vendor hall to close at night on Saturday night, but stay open during the banquet.

    Andrew

    #247 8 years ago
    Quoted from CraigC:

    Yes don't watch it, i am a terrible actor /facepalm. I think it's in the BBB TGOM episode.
    That banquet was magical for us but everyone else thought we were hooligans that should probably be thrown out.
    Forksucker to the rescue! <shines cake shaped bat signal into the sky>. Seriously if i could groundhog day that expo i would, it was just awesome all around.
    -c

    HA, fork sucker... man I forgot about that. Thanks for the laugh!

    Andrew

    #260 8 years ago
    Quoted from Butterflygirl24:

    As one that brings games I will have to agree...leaving the free play room open all night for basically for 3 full days is really rough on the games especially the older games. I have mentioned it before, but I just got my Metallica set back up, and it is SOOOO freakin' dirty...I usually wipe down my games first thing every morning before the show opens but didn't get a chance because there was no time to do it. I feel the room should close at 2am or maybe 3am for those night owl folks, and then open back up at 7 or 8 in the morning. That gives owners a chance to clean or work on any issues that have popped up the previous day. For future reference, if the hall is kept open, I will shut all my games down lines or not so that I can clean them and repair any issues.
    I'm still recovering from Expo and haven't had a chance to post some other suggestions yet...
    Phoebe

    Interesting. How would load out work? A lot of people break games down super early or on the overnight on Saturday...

    What if we did close the hall nightly at 2:00AM... AND what if we asked a few people if they would not mind having there games out in the hall or a second room that is still open always? This may fix the problem of the Friday tournament closing the freeplay space, but it puts a higher wear factor on several games that are available basically 24/7? We could come up with some better incentives for folks who are willing to do this maybe?

    Looking forward to more discussion on this.

    Andrew

    #276 8 years ago
    Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

    If possible close it to have that dinner earlier in the week like Wednesday/Thursday or on Sunday. Saturday is when many that paid to attend want to play pinball. How often it was closed was so frustrating/disappointing I can't even explain it. If your going to have a limited number of pins to play then it would help greatly to ensure that the main room is not closed so often. The vendors that brought a ton of pins for display only and not for free play was just silly. All that did honestly was prevent me from buying any of their products.

    Thanks for the feedback. It looks like the plan will be to keep the vendor hall open through the banquet. I am not sure that moving the banquet will work, Saturday night allows industry folks to attend the banquet as it is off business hours, not during the work week and does not conflict with any Expo prep Stern needs to do.

    Thursday is setup day for the Vendor hall, due to the hotel turnover of spaces I don't see this changing. I will ask about the free play space on Thursday.

    We are sorry you were disappointed. We want everyone to enjoy the show as much as possible. We are taking notes on all of the items brought up here. The show organizers will be getting together in the near future to discuss the wins and opportunities mentioned in this thread.

    Thank you again!

    Andrew

    #283 8 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    since there is a need for repair and cleaning, be nice if penguin style carts could be used to pull a game out of the line up temporarily to take to a clean and repair area (there seems to be room to be able to have a small section for that), vs trying to do that in the middle of line up of games. Also cuts down on idiots telling someone to hurry up with a repair or cleaning. Obviously some repairs can be done where the game is, but typically working on one game is going to block another game or two and I would think it is hard to work on games in a crowded area.

    I can bring my cart. I did for years and it was never used so I stopped. Next issue is where to move games that need repair to. Some stuff I am sure could go to Rob to get fixed, but the I want to fix it stuff... that is another thing.

    Andrew

    #309 8 years ago
    Quoted from Chrizg:

    I think it is a bad idea to move games around that are down. I do not want my games moved unless I am doing it. If one of mine goes down I will fix in place.

    I agree with you. Though at the show it occasionally comes up that we need move a game around, I do not ever want to do it.

    Andrew

    #310 8 years ago
    Quoted from cards25:

    What if you used the overflow room from last year?

    That space was hard to carve out, but I will talk about it with Mike. The room has some seminars in it and has various other uses for the show. Thank you for the idea!

    Andrew

    #313 8 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    It's kind of hard to wheel a cart in and try to fix a machine in the dark with a huge crowd of wall-to-wall people mulling around.
    Every machine should have a contact phone number registered with it. If one goes down an out of order sign could be placed on it and the owner contacted. He then would have like an hour or so to try and fix it if it is an easy one or take it to the lighted repair area if it is going to require anything major (or is down and out for the rest of the show). Have professional pinball carts available at all times for easy transport to and from the repair area.
    They could even have some basic tools in the repair area for people to use like multi-meters and maybe some other items like a few worklights as well as some volunteers there to offer some help for free if the owner would like some. Not everything has to be a for-profit venture at the show.

    We take everyone's number when the game is registered, its a big reason why we registered games, aside from keeping track of what came and who brought stuff.

    We will research the tool idea a bit. We did kick around having people help repair games in the past shows. Two things came from the last conversations around this. Most people said they wanted to work on their machines only. It was also on our minds that Rob is providing a service to the show (and its attendees) and offering volunteer help conflicts with Rob's purpose for coming to the show.

    Like all things in this thread, open to further discussion on this idea.

    Andrew

    #317 8 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Some of us who live right by the Westin would be happy to help-out a fellow pinball fan if they needed to use a tool or needed an inexpensive part.

    Excellent, we should chat, feel free to give me a call. (224) 279-1545

    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Others who are bringing games to the show just to get repaired could still go to Rob or whoever is doing it that particular year.

    I will discuss it with the show organizers, though I still think Expo needs to weigh the impact to vendors of the show when they make decisions like this. I will suggest looping Rob in as well, since he is the one directly impacted.

    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    The room could also have a section for "project" pins to be displayed and sold rather than placing inoperable machines in the free play area.

    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Basically it would be nice to have a secure lighted area that is out of the dark free play area to work on your own machine if you need to. Others could come in and offer help if you need any. If you can't fix it or it needs more money than you want to spend you could just park it there until it is time to take it back home rather than having half the machines unplugged and out of order in the free play area or pushed out into the unsecured hallway behind the free play room where they can be stolen.

    We just need to sort out a few things that I think are central to this issue.
    1) Will it be used?
    2) We will need to organize support people for the room. What does that look like... Keep in mind, if there is a specific room we will need to staff that room to mind the tools and machines in the space.
    3) We will need to carve out the space when there is little space left in the areas we occupy at the show.

    We would never put games in the hallway.

    Thank you again for the dialog.

    Regards,

    Andrew

    #333 8 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    My two games sat out in the back hallway in 2014 because there wasn't any room for them. That's why I didn't bring any this year and I live only 8 miles from the Westin. I was afraid to walk away from them because the back loading dock door was open and unattended most of the time.
    I eventually was able to put one machine in the overflow room (which would make a good room to have the repair area in) and loaded the other one up on my pinball cart and rolled it right out the back door and into my cargo van. I wasn't about to let it sit back there unattended.
    No one asked if I was stealing it or anything. There were other machines there too and I could have loaded any of them I wanted up and probably not have been questioned as I drove right off with them.

    I am sorry this happened. If something weird comes up like this, give me a shout on the Free Play room hotline number, we would gladly help out.

    Andrew

    #360 8 years ago
    Quoted from dgarrett:

    I have brought between 2-4 games to expo for several years. But stopped in 2014. I live about 35 miles from the venue, so that's not the issue. But moving games out of my basement, renting a truck or just loading a van with 2 games, is a lot of work. Once I get games to the hotel, its become a major pain to go through the loading dock. They last couple of times I did bring games, there was nobody from the hotel to open the doors, doors inside the hotel are locked sometimes along the path from the dock to the hall. I'm a collector - I'm in my mid 50's - I can't do this all on my own anymore.
    Jon Pederson did a huge service bringing his EM, high quality, large # of pins in 2014. Its one of the reasons 2015 seemed empty by comparison - When Jon doesnt bring dozens of his EM's it made a big difference. I also noticed the absence all of Brian Bannon's cool Bally's from the 80's, in prestine shape.
    You combine us 3 guys no longer bringing games , that's 50 fewer games right there. And if Pheobe and Larry stopped bringing games - you'd lose some of the coolest modded, and best playing games of the show.
    1. Movers at the site, would be a great help.
    2. Some ideas I've read here about incentives to bring games, run by a dedicated person for just beefing up the free play part of the show, would go a long way.
    3. Maybe an hour bar gathering for all those who brought a game, it would be nice to meet other game-bringers, and have Mike/Rob throw a little $ towards a bar tab as a thank you. I'd be much more likely to consider bringing a game or two, the few $ back is nice - but I buy a packet anyway, and its hard to find MIke to get the $ kickback anyway.

    Starting in 2014 we took care of #1. We have staff working or available the whole show during day/evening hours.

    Working on #2 for future shows. This kind of includes #3, though no one yet has suggested this specific idea.

    Regards,

    Andrew

    #374 8 years ago
    Quoted from dgarrett:

    Andrew,
    Thanks for the efforts the past couple of expos and taking this on. Hopefully I will have a change of heart for 2016.
    Dan

    Dan, no worries! If I can do anything, let me know.
    Andrew

    #376 8 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Sorry if it was not clear. The charity idea is a great way to demonstrate social consciousness of a for profit event where people have stated they dont bring games because of how they were treated in the past. Regardless of how things have changed/ are changing there are many people in that local scene which have been clear why they are not bringing games and I am positive many of them would quickly get behind the effort with heavy support if it had a charity component.
    Reality is that people like to have a reason to do a bunch of work and support a pinball show. It is apparent to me that while many are still supporting expo for the love of pinball, there are others which have been soured on helping out because of the for profit nature, the hassles from previous years, being cussed at by staff, etc... Expo needs to find a way to GIVE these people a reason to support. A good charity and cause is a great way to bring people back together and reinvigorate the previous supporters while encouraging new people to support.
    By and large I have found pinheads to be pretty well off people with HUGE hearts. Hit em in the heart is all I am saying.
    I speak from experience here and am continually amazed how just the locals in my area are more than happy to put in TONS of work to make out local charity event a huge success and even better each year! If it was not for charity but for profit it would easily be a different story.

    Thanks for the time everyone is putting into this feedback. It is great.

    I don't think changing the fee structure for a cause is going to work. Dan alludes to some of the reasons, and I agree with him. I am sure Mike and Rob will as well.

    Last year Rob brought a BBB and put it on money play with the proceeds going to a charity. Perhaps we can go that kind of route?

    Andrew

    #380 8 years ago
    Quoted from Razorbak86:

    Any thoughts about moving EXPO to a different hotel, perhaps one with more room available and more amenable management and staff?

    I know that Expo has a contract signed with the hotel for a few more years.

    I noticed that the folks in the BOH on the dock were way more surely than usual this year.

    Harvey and the facilities team at the hotel are FANTASTIC, so it is not all bad!!

    Andrew

    #387 8 years ago
    Quoted from joeraptor2003:

    Ok, so I finally freed up some time to check out this thread so forgive me if I am a little late..
    I want to Personally thank Rob Berk for inviting me to Expo this year. 10 years ago..even the thought of just simply attending EXPO was a pipe dream However, ..not only was this my first EXPO but I was also asked to be a speaker..which was truly an honor in itself.
    (For anyone interested in listening..it's here: http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2015/joedirusso.mp3)
    So thank you Rob and Mike for hosting this great event.We will be back next year for sure.
    From what I understand attendance was down a bit and this years show was not a good as previous. Well I can tell you that the PinGraffix crew had an absolute blast!
    Sure we drove 15 Hours straight... each way..but to us it was so well worth it..
    I finally got to meet some of my long time friends and associates in person:
    Rick from PPS
    Joe from Laseriffic
    Steve Hemi of Pinball Refinery
    Terry at Pinball Life
    Rare Hero
    Justin Kelly
    The Mezels
    Curly from Little Shop
    Kim from Kimballs Pinballs
    Andrew Barney
    John Borg
    The list goes on and on. Some of the coolest people without a doubt.
    Shoot... Jersey Jack and even ....Gary Stern... very cool..
    There were a few things that drove me a little crazy and made me wonder...
    Like...My presentation was done on a MAC...but the AV guys did not have the proper jack connector for the Projector..In hindsight..maybe I should have not relied on them..but I figured ..."Hey everyone does Mac presentations...this is a hotel that host these things all the time..surely I am not the only one who uses a Mac laptop"???
    Thankfully ..a person in the audience saved my ass..ran up to his room and grabbed the proper AV jack..Thank you dude!! You know who you are. (Drop me an email..please!)
    The whole setup is very archaic ..they need to spend a few bucks on upgrades. Still, I managed.
    The Schedule is crazy!.. Sat night we were literally still selling stuff at 3am...we finally went up to our rooms about 5:30. The part that kind of bothered me was that we were practically the only nut jobs still at their booths..At the same time you have attendees just walking around with free reign on anything they pretty much wanted. Hence the stolen goods.
    The guy at the door who is suppose to be security..nice guy and all..but he was sleeping most of the time.
    The Hotel staff guy at the hotel dock area was totally arrogant and not very helpful at all.
    For the first time ever..We had to kick some guys off our MET PRO that we had setup. We bring the game for you to enjoy. Not for you to practice martial arts on.
    Overall though... IT was one hell of a time and we cannot wait until next year.
    And next year I will not get talked out of Going to Pinball Life Party.
    Gotta try out the VORTEX!
    -Joe

    Great meeting you Joe! See you next year!

    I think I missed you at Modern Pinball last week by a few hours...

    Andrew

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