I agree with this. I spoke to a group of folks that took off work on Friday and drove from MI to EXPO. They all PAID FULL ADMISSION to play in the free game area at 11AM. When they were told there was no free play until 6PM, they were all fairly upset since they could clearly see people playing in that room. That is bad man... It's almost like things are planned to try and upset people on purpose!

In years past, I have actually seen people DEMAND their money back on Friday, get it back, and then leave and have never returned to EXPO since. THAT is bad for everyone involved. Hotel, vendors, Mike, people that run the tournaments, everyone involved. I've never seen this happen at other shows. (For the last 12 years, I've attended 3-4 arcade/pinball/gaming shows each year.)

The schedule did show expobrawl was on Friday and the gameroom was not available.

Having more tournaments than just the main two would be great. If you a casual player, you're kinda screwed. Lots of families on Friday Night - what about having a seperate clock chaos or pingolf tournament in addition to the main two? I know a few people that would probably voluenteer to run them.

Yes, and charging people admission for the hours of 8am to 6pm FRI seems wrong because of that fact. Does it not? They pay and look around like "what did I pay for again?"

Which is part of the problem. Why should a small event, open to a few, keep everyone else from playing? Why not rope off a few in an area and open the hall for everyone else? Why does the PAPA tournament need to go for 4 days? Use those machines for a different tourney.

one other comment on expo brawl. Lots of comments about more tournaments, however, I wonder how many people even know what the brawl is? To be honest, while I participated in pinbrawl a few years ago, I have no clue how it works now, is it still teams? Do you have to have your team ahead of time? Can individuals just show up and get put on teams? Is it one and done, or do you get to play a few rounds before you are eliminated? Either way, once you move to electronic registration (which would likely increase registration being done), you could even ask 'do you want to be put on a pinbrawl team', and alert them this is the only way to be playing games on day X during times y. It is also just another great way to meet people.

I think this gets back to better info on the events. After reading a lot of this, I think more and better info, both before and during is probably the single biggest issue (other then games to play which you have already acknowledged and are trying to address). Many of the issues raised would be resolved or mitigated with more detailed info ahead of time. I think there is a tendency to just assume people know what these things are, but to keep this healthy and growing, in a hobby that is growing, people need to know more about what these things are.

There is so much going on over the three/four days, no way a single one page info sheet can properly communicate it.

We felt completely screwed over when we got in early Friday morning to pay $25.00 for literally 1 hour and 20 minutes only to find out we needed to purchase another band for friday evening. Hopefully this will be corrected. As far as the tourney's go. We don't play in them. I don't mind that they are there, I enjoy watching. I don't think that they should close and block off the free play area so they can play. We paid 25.00 for what?

Yeah the brackets were full (48 teams) before Expo even started so no one could join in. Apparently b/c of this it ran really well this year. I participated and had a blast, but I heard it went much smoother than in past years since they limited the entries to 48 teams of two. You play three rounds in the qualifying and then based on that, everyone is seeded into a division. Somehow we made the A-division finals and bombed out the first round to Josh Sharpe and Jon Replogle. So everyone gets at least four matches (each match is best of two in qualifying and can go to three games if there's a tie after two on the final round(s)

It was my first "brawl" type tournament and I was paired up with a random person since I had no friends going to Expo (ok, i just have no friends - it was fun to play with/against teams though as I love that social aspect of pinball.

Just brainstorming, but a Pro-Am style tournament would be cool. Get paired up with a pinball great, in the name of charity.

Was it closed for the banquet? It was supposed to be open this year. I know the vendor hall was closed, but I thought the free play area was open Friday 6:00 pm - Sunday 4pm solid.

The freeplay room was open during the banquet this year, thankfully.

Thanks for the info. Filled before expo, but how did you even know where and how to sign up? (I may have just missed the info on it -- and not that I do anything at 7AM). It has changed a little since I did it, which was four person teams, 2 player teams seems much better then having two rounds on the same game so all four/eight players play). With 48 teams, that means only 24 games are in use at a time. Assume there is still some aspect of the two teams agreeing on an "approved' game to play (so more then 24 are needed). But it would seem that if the area is bigger next year and can be separated to some degree (or even signs that say 'brawl only' on designated machines) there should be plenty of games to still have a section open for 'free play'

I don't see much advantage with your examples (hours wise). Lets break it down:

Houston 2013 Friday 12:00pm -2:00am, Saturday 9:00am -2:00am.....Expo free play area is opened all of those hours (plus more) except 12:00pm - 6:00pm on Friday.

Texas 2013 Friday 5pm-1am, Saturday 10am-12am, Sunday 9am-2:00pm.....Expo free play area is open all of those hours (plus more) except for 1 hour, Friday 5pm - 6pm.

and as stated before....Expo free play area is open all of the hours in between. The 6 hours on Friday at the Houston 2013 I can see being missed, but missing 1 hour of the Texas 2013 when you are gaining 20+ hours play time with Expo doesn't seem worth mentioning.

So your saying I could play all of the games at expo all day every day? Because every non tournament game is available at those shows during those hours. Also, please remember that I sleep at night. Surely, I'm not going out on a limb assuming lots of other people also sleep at night.

Yeah teams could pick whatever game they wanted as long as it was one of the "ExpoBrawl" approved machines (generally meaning that it worked and/or didn't have some feature like being only one player).

Of course certain games are more popular but they had a rule that you couldn't wait on a machine unless the currently playing teams were on ball three to prevent it from taking too long. Having a dedicated bank of machines would be nice. You really need 1.5x-2x the machines though so if there are 24 games in use at once I think realistically you'd need at least 30 machines since some might go down and some are just more popular than others. Just my $0.02

I don't know where you were, but it was open and more people playing than I have ever seen on a Wednesday night. I always considered Wednesday a setup day. There are usually people setting up and mostly playing there own games to test them out. The only folks usually there are people that are bringing games in.

This year it was a free for all of people playing games, both before and after the bumper blast. A couple of my friends even commented that they wondered what the deal was since Wednesday night is usually very light on the crowd. I can't comment on how late it was open, but it was open until they turned off the lights and ran people out. I'm guessing a bit after 11ish.

Yes, you could play non-tourney games at expo. During the brawl those games were in a tournament and not available.
sleep, not so much during expo

You have a lot of good comments, but you're way off base on this one. Not including the restaurant in the hotel, you have twin peaks and cooper's hawk in the same parking lot, and literally across the street you have buca di beppo, ram and Old Munich Inn. And those are only the restaurants available assuming you don't have a means of transportation! (Otherwise the list gets ridiculously huge!)

There is no discounting convenience though, which is why having a cart isn't a bad idea. But it's certainly not due to a lack of close restaurants.

I would bet that within two miles in either direction on Milwaukee road that there are well over 30 restaurants. Including the famous Bob Chins, the old school drive-through Super Dawg, at least two great steak houses as well as one of the best breakfast places you will find 'rise and dine'.

Expo 2013 free play hours:

Wed: 6pm - 11pm (5 hours) (If tucked in by 11pm...5 hours)
Thursday: 6pm - 6am (12hours) (if tucked in by 11pm...5 hours)
Friday: 6pm - Sunday 4pm (46 hours) (if tucked in by 11pm and awoke at 8am...28 hours)

Sounds like plenty of time to play to me. So 38 hours of free play time, even for someone that rises at 8am and drinks their prune juice at 11pm. I was hitting the 9pm - 4am free play shift hard myself. The only games that were cut out of this schedule were games in the hall (tourney games) and I believe the games in the vendor area were closed off at night except for Saturday night.

Free diner = $200 for three day pass ?
Plus you you did have to pay for it...

I did have fun at your event just wanted to clarify free.

image.jpg

I'm sure you are a nice guy to hang out with, but you seem to be your own worst enemy on the Internet. Not an attack, just trying to help you out.

Yes.

Actually MGC throws a free party on Saturday Night after the hall closes to ALL who bring a game to the show for free play. Free food, free drinks, even prizes are served at the party. Pretty nice.

I got hosed.

I think the Saturday program day and maybe having a Sunday lunch banquet to close things out would be cool.

Good italian/pizza joint south on Milwaukee too east side of the road.

The food was free for vendors and people with games Wednesday. If you paid your 25 to play Wed, you got food too, no extra charge. I could have gone totally for free and just brought my games and got food, no seminars and extras or banquet. I chose to do the full package then get refunded on my games admission sunday before I left.
No one paid for the Wednesday food. Admission was the same all 5 days, food wednesday was a free bonus.

Food on Wednesday night was the best of all the years I've been going to Expo. Many thanks for that Mike.

I've been to tournaments (and only tournaments) that even provided food to people who brought games. You ask for advice yet you're still arguing with everyone and trying to toot your own horn. Continue running the parts you enjoy and let others run all the other parts. Wouldn't it be nice to just say "sorry, I don't run the free play area, talk to so and so" instead of yelling at people who ask you about it? Or, you can run the show into the ground. Your call.

Just curious, what is your product??? Which booth was yours?

Above all else I think this sums it up very well.

Top priority.

Ok This is gonna be long so either take a load off and chill or skip it!

I know Mike said he was addressing Free Play games, but I feel that the Free Play Room is a big part of Expo and I just wanted to say a couple things about it. Mike has spoken with me and a few others about what he and Rob can do to get more games there next year. I try to bring as many as I can, but I have limited space in my trailer (Joust takes up 2 spots...) and in the past we have rented a second trailer and had friends pull it to bring more games. This year we hitched a ride for some in a friends trailer as well. Since they changed the load in/out procedure we are usually worn out by the time we are finished loading/unloading games. If the free play hall is indeed moving this will be a HUGE PLUS!! I also want to thank all those that bring games for the free play area, I know it is work but it is appreciated if it wasn't for those willing to share their games all shows would have a hard time continuing. I know that this year we may not have had as many games as in the past, but there were some nice quality games there for everyone to play!
I'm going to respond to some suggestions and give my .02...
Free play hours, I think it would be great for free play to be open and accessible more (I also feel that all the overnight hours are not really necessary, nice but not totally necessary the games need some sleep too!! Till 3am would be plenty, then turn them off till 7am... ) I think to have the free play hall opened Friday Day would be a good thing. Friday and Saturday are the 2 biggest days for Expo, and it is a shame that the free play room is open to only a select number. I know the guys that run Expo Brawl and they do a good job, just think it would benefit Expo to change the day/time. Being open that long the games do get alot of play, My Metallica had 1161 plays, AFM had 1143, and SM had 976. SM went down (flipper linkage blew up) sometime Fri. night, and we didn't know till Sat. morning, so that is why it had a few fewer plays on it, but we do try to keep games running as much as possible.
Most people that move games in and out of free play area, know to bring supplies to move said games, but there is usually a fellow pinhead in there to help if you need a game moved or lifted to tear down or set up just ask. If you are considering purchasing a game at the show you might want to bring supplies and a dolly to do so (if the seller doesn't have one available to help you). In the past we have left our dolly near our games for this purpose, but then people are likely to help themselves to it, and I have to go track it down wherever they happen to leave it. Last time we loaned our dolly to someone (at another show) we waited and waited for it to come back, and finally had to go looking for it. It was sitting out in the middle of the parking lot where they left it! Not cool, if you borrow something have the courtesy to bring it back!
Communication is also a big factor! Times should be posted prominently for each room ( vendor and free play) as well as seminars. The website also should be more clear on events and times with specifics of events as early as possible. So folks can plan their trip well in advance. The airport shuttle should also be fixed, I know of several folks who got "stranded" at the airport and had to scramble and pay high fares to find a way to get there.
It would be nice if there were some more reasonably priced meal choices closer to Expo. I know there are restaurants within walking distance, but a $10.00 burger every meal is a bit much. Fortunately we had a vehicle and drove to Buffalo Grove on several occasions for fast food (Jimmy John's and pizza), but for those without a way to get there, there are not many reasonable choices. Having reasonable food and drinks available at the hotel would be nice, but would need to be in its own area, away from the games. I will miss the Soda Pop guy also! We have been going to Expo now for several years, and know how the food/drinks are, so we usually bring our own so we can just go up to the room and snack for some meals. I asked for garbage cans in the free play room several times on Wed. during set up and they finally brought 2, but then when they were full and needed to be emptied, instead of just putting in a new bag, they took them away and never brought them back. Friday after Expobrawl there was SOO much garbage on around and under my games (all the games) it was ridiculous! If you are going to eat or drink at least clean up after yourself! It took almost 10 min. to clean up and carry the garbage to the garbage cans in the main hall. (That was just my games) Also not a big fan of having open drinks on the games. I know everyone calls them tables, but they are NOT dinner tables!
As for PBL and Expo, Terry has stated several times in the past that he will not bring product or games to Expo. No matter if Mike and Terry make up, it will not mean more product for sale or more games for Expo either way. Vendors who bring games and won't let people play is an issue I have commented on before, Not a fan, but they do pay for their space so to each their own. I can see maybe having 1 or 2 games for display only, but a whole bunch of them with no access to even 1 is a bit much IMHO. In the past few years Stern/Marco has stepped it up and brought games for the public to play. Hopefully with new manufactures coming onto the scene, they will continue to put in the effort as it is nice to get to play the newest games. JJP didn't really have as much of a presence this year as last year. 3 games in the vendor hall with not much representation or hubbub about them at all.
The Flipout tourney is confusing. it needs to be explained a bit better so the newer folks can enjoy it as well and know when they can use their free tickets. I also think it needs to be in its own space away from the main hotel hallway. That way there could be proper lines for each game and it would not be blocking the main thoroughfare of the hotel, and no glare in the afternoon!

Ok now here's my .02...
Free play sounds like it will be bigger and have more "working" games with easier load/unload so that seems good to go!

Better communication of schedule, free play, vendor, seminars, tourneys. Speaking of seminars, we were discussing some topics we would like to see next year, demonstrating pinball skills, how to make shots do passes etc. (Maybe Roger Sharpe could do this one??)

Informative ones on maintaining and restoring...miss Mark and Don! They always put on a great show~!

Some historical ones about some of the classic games how they came up with ideas etc. Really wish the banquet speech with Steve and Eugene would have been a seminar would have been cool to ask questions!

Bigger presence from manufactures (Stern, JJP, PP) and get the 1 off guys with their custom pins to come back!

Expobrawl should also have it's own space so the free play room is available during the day on Fri. (or maybe move it Wed. or Thursday evening or overnight) to give everyone more access to the games.

I enjoy the banquet, but I don't know why people who did not have banquet tickets were allowed into the banquet hall for the charity auction and sat at tables even when they were asked not to, and told to move. I know of several people that paid for banquet tickets, but arrived at the time stated for the banquet, but could not get seats. Some left without eating, and others were seated on chairs with their plates on their knees till a folding table was set up for them. This was wrong, and I think those that took tables should have been made to pay for banquet tickets. I also feel it might be time to try something different as far as the Make-a-Wish auction...not sure what, been thinking on some ideas, but the auction on top of the banquet just takes too long!

I think this thread has offered some good suggestions for Expo!! Hopefully some or all of them can be implemented to make the 30th annual Pinball Expo the best yet!!

Hope to see you all there!

Phoebe

Still waiting for Mike to explain why shuttles get cancelled with no explanation.

When the Expo was moved to the Westin, one of the price increases, according to Mike himself, was adding the shuttles. So I'm now paying for shuttles that get cancelled with no explanation.

Ron...

I like Phoebe's Expo much more than I like Mike's. Just sayin'...

+1 to all what you wrote, Phoebe. Thanks for helping me with the Flipout tourney. Your involvement in the Expo is something that we can all aspire to. Also, thanks Mike, Rob, and others for making Expo possible.
Howie

Patch things up with Gene, so there are a bunch of parts for sale.

Patch things up with Pinball Life . Had Terry brought the 53 games that were set up at his personal "expo", you guys would have had almost 2x the number of games to play all weekend.

Find a simpler pricing plan. No one should have to guess what is included, when and where.

Get Geno's East to bring some real Chicago pizza in so everyone can buy something to eat they can't get at home. 312-266-5421 is their catering line.

Keep up the great work!

Those were not all Terry's games set up Pinball Life . Highly unlikely that all those games would make it to expo if no open house at Pinball Life .

I think vid just meant the games brought to pinball life which some would normally be at expo.

Certainly not every game would move along with Terry, but many of those would have been at Expo.

Sounds to me like fly in, do Terry's open house then the Stern tour and then fly home with your parts or have them shipped is the way to go.
Does Terry have a shuttle?

Shuttle was banned by Mike.

Gene had his own open house with 100000000000 parts.

I'd rather see it all in one place.

Use to pick people up from expo and bring them back but that ended this year due to Mike and Terry fallout.

Yeah I'm sure there were some that were there instead of Expo but not all . Mike needs to ask himself "Why would someone want to take one or more of their pinball machines to a small half day event instead of a huge multi-day pinball event in the heart of the pinball world ?"

As a first timer....

- get a bigger room for free play so there is room for more games and more people capacity.
- close up the exhibit hall at noon on Sunday. Nothing was really open anyway & vendors were pissed they had to stick around with no crowd to sell to. Even your own crew did nothing but want to hurry and pack up and get out of there.
- move the Saturday evening activities up an hour. It was lame that the exhibit hall did not reopen until after 11pm. Allow vendors to come back in up to 30 min earlier than the public so they can prep.
- more availability of drinks and food

Man I always wanted to go to EXPO but after reading this thread I will stick to the west coast shows.
Banned by Mike?
Screw that, this guy gets to tell attendees where they can and can't go?
I would tell him where he could go, no wonder this show is going downhill.

Yes Mike, other shows do give free food and drink for people that help with the show and bring games.

This is your response to those that are trying to assist you and making the show better? Unbelievable!

Similar thoughts - from the other side of the planet here.
Was already making plans to attend Chicago Expo - now in SERIOUS doubt.

Just to clarify, Pinbrawl was created so that players could play on machines during a time when the hall was traditionally closed. Before Pinbrawl there was no pinball play any time while seminars were going on.

Have things changed now? Is the hall open for play on Thursday during seminars? If so it may be a reason to rethink the timing on Pinbrawl. But its origins are exactly the same as the thing people are complaining about here: the hall is closed and we want to play pinball.

Why would the free play area be closed during seminars? Is that typical at some shows? I'm only familiar with the three in the bay area.