(Topic ID: 214253)

Pinball Expo 2018 Reboot (Wheeling, IL)


By RobCraig

1 year ago



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  • 1,658 posts
  • 270 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 hours ago by chad
  • Topic is favorited by 61 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “For those that have attended the Expo Banquet before, what would you change?”

    • Nothing 15 votes
      6%
    • Skip the fancy food, make it Burgers and Fries at a cheaper cost. 46 votes
      18%
    • Shorten the event, make it super cheap or free, and have no meal at all. 19 votes
      7%
    • I don't care about the banquet. 176 votes
      69%

    (256 votes)

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    There are 1658 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 34.
    #551 9 months ago

    Ads on radio, newspaper and TV?

    How quaint. Maybe the AARP will bring some rest home people in with a bus.

    #552 9 months ago

    Boosting advertising efforts? Cool. Sure hope folks bring machines for the free play area to meet the increased attendance.

    #553 9 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Ads on radio, newspaper and TV?
    How quaint. Maybe the AARP will bring some rest home people in with a bus.

    Nah, old people don't show up en masse unless it's free.

    #554 9 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Ads on radio, newspaper and TV?
    How quaint. Maybe the AARP will bring some rest home people in with a bus.

    Tell them it’s a new casino in town. They’ll plug quarters in all day long. Someone just needs to tell them “ bummer, you almost had a jackpot” .

    #555 9 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    VFW really isn't a 'pinball show' as much more an 'open house for other pinheads'.

    I call BS on that. What is a pinball show? a central spot that has games for people to come see and play for a weekend. The average Joe doesn't give a rat's butt how the games got there. They could be permanent, or hauled in by a gang of pygmy gorillas. Who cares? how does it matter? What does matter is this.... you go to a show, buy a ticket, and play pinball. You expect the games to be there and to be working. And that the lines aren't crazy big to play any particular title. Vendors are nice too, but the Average Joe Civilian doesn't care about that either. They just want a central place with a lot of games to play (which is something most cities can't offer every day/weekend, thus making a "pinball show" a unique pinball event.)

    back to the Chicago expo... how are they accomplishing the above goal??? Print ads and radio/tv ads which advertise the show do *not* accomplish that goal. If anything, they make it worse (because you get more people and more lines.) You're putting the cart before the horse. All it does is bring more walk in money, it does not help the show be better.

    Like i said before, marketing to Pinheads is the absolute way to go. They are the ones that bring games! They are the ones that are vendors! Average Joe Civilian does not bring games. Pinheads are the ones that bring them, and they are the ones you need to provide incentive to get them to bring games. They are the ones you need to make happy. You do that, and all the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place with little to no effort.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Well it depends on what the show people do with that money. What is known is, without $$, the show can't function. So if a show gets better with more $$ is down to how the show is ran. It doesn't mean it has to be bad, but a show with no $$ or resources... will be bad.

    Again complete BS. Especially in regards to chicago expo, where basically the whole problem created in this re-organization was based on money. Revenues for the last two years were down at the show 25%. Berk blamed Pacak, and hence their divorce. Personally i don't think Pacak is really to blame. Maybe to some extent, but the problems with Expo are more systemic.

    I've seen some amazing pinball shows run on absolute shoe strings with nearly no budget. Again all you have to do is get the word out to Pinheads, get them behind your cause, and the show is a success. That ONE THING does not require money. I mean it could help, but it's not a requirement.

    #556 9 months ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    I call BS on that. What is a pinball show? a central spot that has games for people to come see and play for a weekend. The average Joe doesn't give a rat's butt how the games got there. They could be permanent, or hauled in by a gang of pygmy gorillas. Who cares? how does it matter?

    But we aren't talking about the average joe's responsibility in this... we're talking about how the show comes together and where the resources come from. And in that vein, your VFW is polar opposites from every other 'show'. Your event is more like Dahuff's than it is Expo. So it's longer and you've (since) invited other people to bring games, etc. But at the end of the day you have an event at a private collection you're opening up to the public to come and enjoy.

    Contrast that with an event renting a space, organizing vendors and admission as the main substance to fund it, and then rallying volunteers to fill out marketplace and free play areas.

    Quoted from cfh:

    back to the Chicago expo... how are they accomplishing the above goal??? Print ads and radio/tv ads which advertise the show do *not* accomplish that goal. If anything, they make it worse (because you get more people and more lines.) You're putting the cart before the horse. All it does is bring more walk in money, it does not help the show be better.

    Again, depends on what that money does. Does it help them get more space? Does it help them offer more services to the show? Does it help them with better restitution to the volunteers? One common thing is... the less financial resources the show has, the less it has to spend on making the show better.

    Quoted from cfh:

    Like i said before, marketing to Pinheads is the absolute way to go. They are the ones that bring games! They are the ones that are vendors! Average Joe Civilian does not bring games. Pinheads are the ones that bring them, and they are the ones you need to provide incentive to get them to bring games. They are the ones you need to make happy. You do that, and all the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place with little to no effort.

    This is like the route vs hobbyist argument. You need the 'public' to help foot the bills and become the next round of hobbyists. When we ran events here locally, honestly the BIGGEST payoff was having these randoms who found us through radio or online, came and found out pinball was still alive and were amazed we had a room of even 40 pinball machines available to play. Those people happily played without whining about a lean, or a worn insert... paid their money and THANKED YOU on the way out for having such a thing. Lots of people would come back year after year... some even become hobbyists out of coming to those events.

    Just like you used to rant about tournament players... and how you weren't catering to that audience... there is more than one audience for pinball shows, and there is more than one approach to who you want there. The growth of shows like TPF show you don't have to just target the stinky old MI/Chicago-land pinball crowds to assemble a top level show. That show is flooded by casuals and families... not necessarily hardcore hobbyists.

    Quoted from cfh:

    Again complete BS. Especially in regards to chicago expo, where basically the whole problem created in this re-organization was based on money. Revenues for the last two years were down at the show 25%. Berk blamed Pacak, and hence their divorce. Personally i don't think Pacak is really to blame. Maybe to some extent, but the problems with Expo are more systemic.

    Irrelevant - at the end of the day, they need money and tickets sold to make the thing work. They could stuff the hall with 400 games brought in by people.. but if they only bring in a fraction of the paying audience.. it would still fail. The thing isn't a charity, nor is there necessarily a Kevin Martin hanging in the shadows willing to float it all forever.

    Quoted from cfh:

    I've seen some amazing pinball shows run on absolute shoe strings with nearly no budget. Again all you have to do is get the word out to Pinheads, get them behind your cause, and the show is a success. That ONE THING does not require money. I mean it could help, but it's not a requirement.

    And where are these year over year ongoing shows that run in non-private places that have nearly no budget? Or did they stop, because without budget, the charity well dries up soon enough?

    #557 9 months ago

    Kalamazoo was the show that i was thinking of which is run on a shoe string. i asked kevin once what he spends for the show, and his response was, "oh like $1000." That's a pretty skinny budget! Now it's not a huge show (huge venue though), but it's pretty much in a small town with nothing for 2 hours drive in any direction. Yet people absolutely *love* that show. And it's been going on for 15+ years i believe. Terry D from Pinlife only vends one show a year, and that's Kalamazoo. There's a perfect example.

    And again, attendees don't care how games get to a pinball show. As long as they are there, working, and available for play! that's the bottom line. How that happens Average Joe doesn't know about or frankly give a ratt's butt. It's all about getting to the show and playing games.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    But we aren't talking about the average joe's responsibility in this... we're talking about how the show comes together and where the resources come from. And in that vein, your VFW is polar opposites from every other 'show'. Your event is more like Dahuff's than it is Expo. So it's longer and you've (since) invited other people to bring games, etc. But at the end of the day you have an event at a private collection you're opening up to the public to come and enjoy. Contrast that with an event renting a space, organizing vendors and admission as the main substance to fund it, and then rallying volunteers to fill out marketplace and free play areas.

    As you put it, irrelevant. The people buying tickets DO NOT CARE how games got there!! it is completely irrelevant. They just want games to play. Attendees don't leverage cost of the facility rentals and other things. They don't care! They only care that there's games to play. How that happens makes no difference to them.

    Also running ads and TV spots is freaking the easy part! that's low hanging fruit! Getting games to your show, that's the hard part. My suggestion to any show is to work on getting games. TV and print ads take no time or energy, just some money. But again, if you bring people in, and there's NO GAMES to play, you have just shot yourself in the foot! Number one priorty... get the games! After you do that, all the other stuff is easy and falls into place.

    #558 9 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Ads on radio, newspaper and TV?
    How quaint. Maybe the AARP will bring some rest home people in with a bus.

    Let BERK know his marketing department is lacking the social media twist.

    #559 9 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Let BERK know his marketing department is lacking the social media twist.

    Exhibit A:

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #560 9 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Let BERK know his marketing department is lacking the social media twist.

    Agreed- the people you want to come that might spend money on a game for the home are a bit younger then newspaper or Facebook. Online social media on your phone is how to advertise. And by doing it that way, you address the up and coming, not the older, old school Expo needs new hobbyists, or people with some money to spend on home entertainment, that will go to the show, play games, ask questions, get excited about pinball and want to take the plunge. We all known you can't just have one.

    Sidebar- Pinball At the Zoo is great. I've got the old PATZ shirt with the gorilla playing pinball, on the yellow and black machine (what 10 year old shirt?), and I swear rare times I wear it out in public, it gets peoples attention. Someone always asks about it, comments about the shirt- EXPO needs *FUN* shirts!

    #561 9 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    VFW really isn't a 'pinball show' as much more an 'open house for other pinheads'.

    Sounds like an open house to me.

    #562 9 months ago

    Expo load in/out sucks. Could be improved greatly if the hotel simply allowed loading to happen anywhere (like MGC at Sheraton)

    Compare this to TPF (or new MGC) where everything is loaded through a giant door at floor level at the end of the main hall and it's easy to see why one show shrinks while the others explode.

    Also nobody spends money in Chicago. I've been to a lot of shows and it seemed like the Midwest keeps its wallets shut.

    #563 9 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    Expo load in/out sucks. Could be improved greatly if the hotel simply allowed loading to happen anywhere (like MGC at Sheraton)
    Compare this to TPF (or new MGC) where everything is loaded through a giant door at floor level at the end of the main hall and it's easy to see why one show shrinks while the others explode.
    Also nobody spends money in Chicago. I've been to a lot of shows and it seemed like the Midwest keeps its wallets shut.

    agreed
    especially when your hand cart disappears LOL

    Pincades

    #564 9 months ago

    You guys have a short memory.... remember the old hotel that had that GIANT (and i mean a good 3 foot high) "speed bump" in front of the back door? That was a riot moving games over that! ha!

    #565 9 months ago

    The fact that the old hotel was worse doesn’t make the current location any better. It’s still bad.

    -3
    #566 9 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    The fact that the old hotel was worse doesn’t make the current location any better. It’s still bad.

    Okay, then don't attend. Feel free to drain away.

    #567 9 months ago

    I don’t think we can use Texas or mgc as the best examples of loading out

    16
    #568 9 months ago
    Quoted from dirtbag66:

    Okay, then don't attend. Feel free to drain away.

    He’s done more to help the show than you ever could

    #569 9 months ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    You guys have a short memory.... remember the old hotel that had that GIANT (and i mean a good 3 foot high) "speed bump" in front of the back door? That was a riot moving games over that! ha!

    Those were installed at the direction of the Teamsters to prevent show displays and equipment from going into the exposition hall any way except via the loading dock via a forklift.

    This was at the old Ramada which is now a Holiday Inn Express..........

    #570 9 months ago

    Advertising flyers works good. Thats how I learned of Pinball Expo during a tourney at the local Aladins Castle in 1990.

    #571 9 months ago
    Quoted from Jamaster10:

    agreed
    especially when your hand cart disappears LOL
    Pincades

    I hate when that happens!

    -6
    #572 9 months ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    He’s done more to help the show than you ever could

    My f**king hero! Is this the part where I start gushing uncontrollably?

    13
    #573 9 months ago

    Never has a user name more adequately and accurately described a user......

    #574 9 months ago
    Quoted from dirtbag66:

    My f**king hero! Is this the part where I start gushing uncontrollably?

    If I was going to tell you to do something, it wouldn’t be that

    #575 9 months ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    If I was going to tell you to do something, it wouldn’t be that

    What a tease! Hopefully you wouldn't tell me to wear one of those stupid Borat bikinis. That bit is played out.

    #576 9 months ago
    Quoted from dirtbag66:

    What a tease! Hopefully you wouldn't tell me to wear one of those stupid Borat bikinis. That bit is played out.

    Would you?

    #577 9 months ago
    Quoted from nwpinball:

    Not any show. Some shows. Sunday is huge at other shows.

    I don't think you read what I said in the way I intended it. The last day is hard to attract people to.

    If you are saying that you did nothing and a ton of people show up the last day, then I stand corrected. Our Sunday, not including last year and the giant snowstorm that we had, has been equal to or slightly better than our Saturday attendance for the past three years before that. We put a *ton* of work into making that happen.

    It's doable, but it isn't easy.

    #578 9 months ago

    That's a solid "no".

    I'm not that desperate for a laugh.

    #579 9 months ago

    I’ll bring an extra one, in case you change your mind

    Your trolling reeks of desperation

    #580 9 months ago

    That snowstorm sucked.

    But the only way to avoid that possibility in Wisconsin is to schedule the show for August

    #581 9 months ago

    dirtbag66 it's really such a shame you're so quick to judge others here. Pinball is such a small niche hobby and you're quickly isolating yourself from it. Jay has a heart of gold in person, but if you want to judge him based on his odd sense of humor on a forum then you're missing out.

    #582 9 months ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    That snowstorm sucked.
    But the only way to avoid that possibility in Wisconsin is to schedule the show for August

    Lol. Nice fact filled post.

    On another note I emailed a question last week to the game hall email. And didn’t hear back. I’m assuming they are busy but I too am trying to make plans for the show. Is there someone I can check with to see if they got the email or chat on here?

    #583 9 months ago
    Quoted from Fortytwo:

    Lol. Nice fact filled post.
    On another note I emailed a question last week to the game hall email. And didn’t hear back. I’m assuming they are busy but I too am trying to make plans for the show. Is there someone I can check with to see if they got the email or chat on here?

    Not sure if you are referring to Expo or MGC (you replied to a MGC post in an Expo thread...so hard to tell! ). If MGC, please be patient as many things are still being finalized about the halls, etc, and even the main arcade hall guys are completely in the dark at this point.

    #584 9 months ago

    Say what you want good or bad BERK really did nothing much to promote show for years.. I asked for years to meet about it. \he was always tooooo busy if we together after doing show for 33 years and friends for like 35 had tried to make changes and promote it could have been great.. He just decided to buy me out but clearly gave me the right to do a show AND stated everywhere and to me that he was not doing westin and I could so thats the legal issue here unfortunatly between lawyers and his stall tactics no hearing yet was filed way back in june originally so plain and simple westin contract was MINE and he took it period...

    #585 9 months ago
    Quoted from Jediturtle:

    Not sure if you are referring to Expo or MGC (you replied to a MGC post in an Expo thread...so hard to tell! ). If MGC, please be patient as many things are still being finalized about the halls, etc, and even the main arcade hall guys are completely in the dark at this point.

    Thanks. But I am actually referring to expo. I have never brought a game. Have some questions before I can commit.

    17
    #586 9 months ago
    Quoted from mikepin:

    Say what you want good or bad BERK really did nothing much to promote show for years.. I asked for years to meet about it. \he was always tooooo busy if we together after doing show for 33 years and friends for like 35 had tried to make changes and promote it could have been great.. He just decided to buy me out but clearly gave me the right to do a show AND stated everywhere and to me that he was not doing westin and I could so thats the legal issue here unfortunatly between lawyers and his stall tactics no hearing yet was filed way back in june originally so plain and simple westin contract was MINE and he took it period...

    We know, you've mentioned this about a dozen times.

    #587 9 months ago
    Quoted from Fortytwo:

    Thanks. But I am actually referring to expo. I have never brought a game. Have some questions before I can commit.

    If you're just going to put it in the freeplay hall, it's no different than taking a game to MGC - just show up with it.

    If you're hoping for more of a vendor style space in the vendor hall, then you're going to have to get in touch with the show people. The PROC custom games booth that was done for several years was done with the generosity of Multimorphic as an extension of their vendor space. Since they're not going to be at the show, that space isn't available.

    #588 9 months ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    If you're just going to put it in the freeplay hall, it's no different than taking a game to MGC - just show up with it.
    If you're hoping for more of a vendor style space in the vendor hall, then you're going to have to get in touch with the show people. The PROC custom games booth that was done for several years was done with the generosity of Multimorphic as an extension of their vendor space. Since they're not going to be at the show, that space isn't available.

    Thanks. I get that there most likely isn’t a custom game spot. But at least would like a copy of the email with details. I have only done MGC. I don’t want to show up too late or earily. So. Just want the info. I get it they are busy so just wondering if anyone else has the info they can share. Please feel free to pm me the email contents.
    Thanks

    #589 9 months ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Those were installed at the direction of the Teamsters to prevent show displays and equipment from going into the exposition hall any way except via the loading dock via a forklift.
    This was at the old Ramada which is now a Holiday Inn Express..........

    Wasn't that a levee to keep water out when the creek next door would flood ?

    #590 9 months ago
    Quoted from Chrizg:

    Wasn't that a levee to keep water out when the creek next door would flood ?

    Yup. But don't let Occam's Razor get in the way of a good CONspiracy.

    #591 9 months ago
    Quoted from Chrizg:

    Wasn't that a levee to keep water out when the creek next door would flood ?

    No, they were only by the "exposition center", not the main hotel corridor entrances.

    #592 9 months ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    Let me give you guys an example of how this whole thing can go awry
    Several years ago there was a show in Michigan called the Michigan pinball Expo. The guy that promoted the show was brilliant. Not only did he do all the things that Dave fix suggested above, but he had one more idea. At the local junior highs he held pinball seminars. He basically got the science teachers to let him bring a game in and explain the physics of pinball and how it worked. So you have all these middle schoolers touching and feeling a pinball machine in their science class. And then he gives flyers out all these kids. They bring the flyers home and say,” look dad, pinballs cool, we need to go to the show next weekend.”
    So what happened? The show exploded. So many people went that every game had 10 people deep to play it. You could barely walk in the place. It was unbelievable. He managed to get all these people that only think about pinball this one time a year to come to the show
    Now I know that all sounds really good, but it had a major problem. All the games were supplied by local collectors. They would spiff their games up, bring them to the show, watch them get beat to death for four days. Then bring their games home in filthy dirty broken condition. This lasted for probably five years and the collectors eventually just said,” screw it I’m not doing this anymore. I don’t need this much play wear and tear on my games”
    The end result? the show folded. Not enough collectors were interested in bringing their games to the show anymore, so the whole thing just fell apart. Now there was probably some other reasons that this happened too. But I would say the bulk of it was, people would bring their nice games, and they would come back home in far less condition then they showed up. And this was due just to the amount of people and traffic and newbies beating their games to death
    Another problem is the vendors. Because it was just the general public and not pinheads attending, the vendors didn’t really sell anything. So eventually he lost vendor support too.
    It’s just something to think about.... I stand by my comment that if you can make a pinball show successful for pinheads, that the rest of it all just falls in place.

    I went to that show every year (Michigan Pinball expo) then quit going for the same reasons you stated, there was an electronics guy that used to setup shop there fixing boards he did some work for me and I asked him why he quit attending, he said that he wasnt getting much business from that show.

    #593 9 months ago
    Quoted from mikepin:

    Say what you want good or bad BERK really did nothing much to promote show for years.. I asked for years to meet about it. \he was always tooooo busy if we together after doing show for 33 years and friends for like 35 had tried to make changes and promote it could have been great.. He just decided to buy me out but clearly gave me the right to do a show AND stated everywhere and to me that he was not doing westin and I could so thats the legal issue here unfortunatly between lawyers and his stall tactics no hearing yet was filed way back in june originally so plain and simple westin contract was MINE and he took it period...

    B-R-O-K-E-N R-E-C-O-R-D

    #594 9 months ago

    Just checked my reservation, and it appears it was cancelled. Real nice. No notice, no explanation, just cancelled. Not by me. And now the rate code has expired. I had two rooms for two nights. Guess someone else needed them more. Guys, check and confirm your reservations. Be quite a surprise to travel, get there, and your room goes poof.

    -2
    #595 9 months ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Just checked my reservation, and it appears it was cancelled. Real nice. No notice, no explanation, just cancelled. Not by me. And now the rate code has expired. I had two rooms for two nights. Guess someone else needed them more. Guys, check and confirm your reservations. Be quite a surprise to travel, get there, and your room goes poof.

    More BERK shenanigans.....

    #596 9 months ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Just checked my reservation, and it appears it was cancelled.

    If you have a confirmation number for your original reservation couldn't you call to find out who canceled it or why it was canceled?

    #597 9 months ago
    Quoted from egyptrus:

    If you have a confirmation number for your original reservation couldn't you call to find out who canceled it or why it was canceled?

    thats what I thought to, and how did you check your reservation. Ive stayed at hundreds of hotels, and once I have had my confirmation, I never double checked if my room was still available, thats what my confirmation is for

    #598 9 months ago
    Quoted from egyptrus:

    If you have a confirmation number for your original reservation couldn't you call to find out who canceled it or why it was canceled?

    I called and they were unable to give me a straight answer. They were able to get me one room at 300 night. I will have to call hotel tomoro and see if they can reinstate the rate. If not, then I’m not staying there. I had two rooms at 135 each per night. Now it looks like I’ll be driving down for the day and returning. Not happy. What’s the point of making a res and providing a credit card to hold it, to have it disappear.

    #599 9 months ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    I called and they were unable to give me a straight answer. They were able to get me one room at 300 night. I will have to call hotel tomoro and see if they can reinstate the rate. If not, then I’m not staying there. I had two rooms at 135 each per night. Now it looks like I’ll be driving down for the day and returning. Not happy. What’s the point of making a res and providing a credit card to hold it, to have it disappear.

    I just looked mine up. Still there....

    45989uthfgj56 (resized).PNG
    #600 9 months ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    I called and they were unable to give me a straight answer. They were able to get me one room at 300 night.

    If you had a confirmation number and had a rate for the original reservation I don't know how they could cancel your reservation without letting you know and then not honor that rate. If they can find one room for $300 then surely they can find you two rooms at your original rate. I'd bug them until they tell you how they canceled your room. If they can't give you a straight answer then they should put you in a nearby hotel at your original rate.

    Like vidgameseller seller said, when I make reservations I never check to make sure it's still there before I travel. I assume that if I have a reservation and a confirmation number that I'm good to go.

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